First full restoration project.. 1980 P200E
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Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 1467
Location: Veria, Greece
Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:05 pm quote
I think that’s a wrong choice on the head. Since you’ll be using packers to “play” with the cylinder, the piston should be always at zero deck. You’ll definitely need a “normal” squish. I would go for this one...

https://sip-scootershop.com/en/products/cylinder+head+mmw+px200+for_13013950

Also, avoid the MMW o-ring versions. I had two of them fail at the inside lip next to the o-ring. It’s too thin and both cracked...
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1278
Location: London UK
Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:44 pm quote
This kit is the one you need.

https://sip-scootershop.com/en/products/racing+cylinder+malossi+mhr+_31163490

Mazz crank is ok. 138/6 is good.

I actually have that MMW zero head on my 200, which is about all its good for.
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1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 723
Location: Staten Island, NY
Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:54 am quote
Thanks safis and Jack. Any thoughts on gearing? Standard 23/65 or 23/64? Or anything funky with gears like t5 fourth?

I'm thinking just the stock 23/65 in bgm strong clutch with cr80 plates.
https://www.scooter-center.com/en/bgm8299b/clutch-bgm-pro-superstrong-cnc-cr80-type-cosa2/fl-for-primary-gear-64/65-tooth-vespa-px200-rally200?number=BGM8299
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1278
Location: London UK
Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:02 am quote
P200 gearing is already high for a Malossi. 23/65 with a 36 4th is a good choice. 22/65 with a 35 4th is about the same. Set up well, an MHR 221 will do 8500rpm in 4th and needs to be geared accordingly.

The extreme 25/62 type of gearing is for kits which have max power really low down like the M244 and Pinasco touring kits.
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1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 723
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:31 pm quote
Jack, I will plan for that 36 tooth fourth. Thanks!

I got the Ospho and por15 this week. Took some time today to spray down the floor tunnel, neck, inside of frame and under frame in wheel well. It was seeping through the seams along the floor board in a few spots. So it got onto the paint in a few spots. I tried to wipe it up right away until it stopped seeping. Just wondering if this is going to ruin the paint in those areas where it came into contact with it? If it's not going to ruin the paint if I wipe it up immediately, do you guys think it's a good idea to coat all the visible rust all over the frame, floor boards/back of the leg shield above the glove box with it?

I'm still debating if I am gonna spray the inside and tunnel with Rust-Oleum or try to coat it with por15 somehow which seems like it would be difficult.

I'll definitely use the por15 underneath on both the wheel well and the frame bottom since I got the clear version.

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floor tunnel

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floor tunnel

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inside frame

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seeping through where the green arrow is.

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seeping through where the green arrow is.

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in the fork tunnel area around the steering lock.

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coated all around and down the tunnel below the fork tube area with ospho.

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even tried to coat inside the fork tube and where the wiring comes out which is rusty.

Hooked
P125x (P200 Motor)
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 136
Location: Alexandria, VA
Sat Jun 29, 2019 6:36 pm quote
I would think they you would want it to seep into the seams. That would prevent further rust.
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1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 723
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sat Jun 29, 2019 6:41 pm quote
I did, and am glad it did. My concern is that it seeped through to the front visible frame onto paint that I want to keep in good condition. Since Ospho is basically acid I'm wondering if it will ruin the paint. I guess I'll find out if the paint starts coming off!
Ossessionato
1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 4676
Location: So Cal
Sat Jun 29, 2019 11:07 pm quote
The phosphoric acid in Ospho is heavily diluted. It won’t eat thru paint.
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1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 723
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:26 am quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
The phosphoric acid in Ospho is heavily diluted. It won’t eat thru paint.
Awesome! Then I'm gonna coat all the rust with it before I finish the wet sanding and buffing, then test the clear por15 on the bottom of frame to see if I could use that on top of frame over the rust spots to create a strong rust preventative seal while leaving the rusted patina.
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1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 723
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:03 am quote
and here is the floor tunnel after a day of soaking. Seems to have taken care of the problem in there sufficiently! Thanks guys for the ospho referral!

IMG_20190630_104419.jpg

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1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 723
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:06 pm quote
Ospho doing its job
Going to town on the underside of the frame with Ospho!

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Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1124
Location: Florence, OR
Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:30 pm quote
Re: Ospho doing its job
swiss1939 wrote:
Going to town on the underside of the frame with Ospho!
The stuff is pretty dang good. I used it on a trailer frame one time. Worked fantastic. Just takes some time.

The frame is looking good Swiss!
Addicted
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 723
Location: Staten Island, NY
Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:53 pm quote
went to town with some 1500/2000 grit wet sanding on the rusty leg shield above the glove box and around the lock body. Went over the whole frame with 1500/2000 grit wet sanding again for a second time. Then I coated all the rust spots with ospho and spread it around on the whole frame to remove as much streaks as I could.

Once this dries im gonna wet sand everything again. Then try the clear por15 on the bottom of the frame to see if it will look good over the paint on visible parts of the frame. If its good to go, then I'm coating all the rust on topside of frame with por15 and wet sanding again before buffing.

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taping off the frame stickers.. one of them is coming off anyways with the tape when I peel it off. This is prior to some serious aggressive wet sanding on this spot to clean up the rust.

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after all the wet sanding 1500/2000 grit and coated with ospho.

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ospho doing its work turning rust to black. I actually love the way this is looking with black spots everywhere and generally shitty looking spots among shiny buffed out paint when its done!

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I also went aggressive with the wet sanding here to get rid of some splotches on the front of leg shield that outlined the badge and some general rust.

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Enthusiast
58 VB1T, 81 100 Sport
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 73
Location: Long Beach, CA
Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:06 pm quote
looking good! I love burgundy P200's. My first Vespa was a burgundy '79 P200E. I'm glad to see you bringing the og paint back to life
Hooked
P125x (P200 Motor)
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 136
Location: Alexandria, VA
Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:26 pm quote
I'm sure you already know to get the POR15 with UV inhibitor, right?

Looks pretty good for an original paint bike. The rusty spots actually add to it.
Addicted
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 723
Location: Staten Island, NY
Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:43 pm quote
JimVonBaden wrote:
I'm sure you already know to get the POR15 with UV inhibitor, right?

Looks pretty good for an original paint bike. The rusty spots actually add to it.
this is what I got.. https://www.por15.com/POR-15-Rust-Preventive-Coating
Addicted
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 723
Location: Staten Island, NY
Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:11 pm quote
Just wondering if anyone has taken apart the front suspension linkage before? Are there any specialized tools or what tools in general are required to take it apart? I want to take the whole front fork apart to get sand blasted and powder coated.
Hooked
P125x (P200 Motor)
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 136
Location: Alexandria, VA
Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:55 am quote
swiss1939 wrote:
JimVonBaden wrote:
I'm sure you already know to get the POR15 with UV inhibitor, right?

Looks pretty good for an original paint bike. The rusty spots actually add to it.
this is what I got.. https://www.por15.com/POR-15-Rust-Preventive-Coating
The "Top Coat" right?

POR-15® Rust Preventive Coating is designed for application directly on
rusted, sandblasted, and seasoned metal surfaces. It dries to a rock-hard,
non-porous finish that won’t chip, crack, or peel, and it prevents rust from
recurring by protecting metal from further exposure to moisture. POR-15®
Rust Preventive Coating is sensitive to UV light and must be topcoated when
prolonged exposure to sunlight is possible.
Topcoating is not required for
areas not exposed to sunlight.

Just make sure it is UV protection Top Coat. Hard to tell from the link. I say this because I used POR 15 on my trailer, not knowing that it is not UV, and it has faded to chalky, and pealed in a few places. Basically looks like crap.
Addicted
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 723
Location: Staten Island, NY
Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:01 am quote
JimVonBaden wrote:
The "Top Coat" right?
no that stuff is not the top coat. I will use that for the frame bottom and interior. The top coat stuff is 2k urethane por-15. just ordered it.

I scratched the crap out of the front leg shield when trying to remove the two top glove box bolts that the previous owner left in there which rusted solid. goddammit! I did eventually get them off with the dremel tool, but had to cut some new slots in the head for the flat head, and that was how I scratched the leg shield when using flathead and a socket wrench with a ton of effort to loosen the bolt enough to make space for dremel cutter.

I know it is a beater scarred style, but with those two scratches now I am pissed, so Im gonna try to get a small bottle of paint matched up to this so I can touch those scratches up since they are right on the face of the leg shield where the badge goes.
Addicted
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 723
Location: Staten Island, NY
Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:19 am quote
While I wait for the Por-15 2k urethane top coat to come and all the other stuff to dry on this frame, I started to dismantle the front fork/hub.

I'm still trying to figure out how to take apart the front suspension linkage, or if I even need to in order to powder coat. I feel like Robot from scooterwest mentioned in his p200 fork rebuild video that they don't take the linkage apart before powder coating if it all moves freely and doesn't have any bearing issues, but I'm not sure. I did check the fork to make sure it is all level as Robot suggested in the same video. It is straight and not bent, so that is a positive!

here is a video of the linkage movement which I think it moves fine, but the seals are definitely shot with a ton of krud on them.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/zFykawjTFvWkHsUC6

Also, took the hub off and what a mess inside! It was quite a pain in the ass to get the brake shoes off, to the point that I literally broke them in half with brute force before I could remove the shoes. Then had to use a vice grip to clamp onto the remaining piece of shoe and wiggle it off the stud.

Now I'm struggling to get the circlip off the inside of the axle. This thing is frozen on solid. I am trying to soak it in pb blaster for a day and hoping that works. If not, I have no idea how to get that off, cause I already tried using a torch to heat it up and that didn't work.

Once I get both sides of the front hub apart and off the axle, then it is time to try to figure out how to remove all the seals and bearings to replace them.

EDIT: here is the scooterwest video where robot mentions they don't dismantle linkage before powder coating:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KProxBh5trs&t=2m18s

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this could probably be rebuilt cause it appears to just be a broken plastic cover, but since the rear shock is dead, I'll replace both with new.

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what is this crud?

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holy hell this is a mess! looks like way more of the same crud that was inside the flywheel/stator.

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broke it with my strength.

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had to remove the remaining piece with a vice grip and some wiggling.

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the offending stud. thanks to this, I spent 30 min prying at the shoe.

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and now this damn circlip is the pain in my ass.

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so it is soaking in pb blaster for the next day.



Last edited by swiss1939 on Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:33 am; edited 1 time in total
Hooked
P125x (P200 Motor)
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 136
Location: Alexandria, VA
Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:29 am quote
swiss1939 wrote:
JimVonBaden wrote:
The "Top Coat" right?
no that stuff is not the top coat. I will use that for the frame bottom and interior. The top coat stuff is 2k urethane por-15. just ordered it.
Ahhh, cool.
Quote:
I scratched the crap out of the front leg shield when trying to remove the two top glove box bolts that the previous owner left in there which rusted solid. goddammit! I did eventually get them off with the dremel tool, but had to cut some new slots in the head for the flat head, and that was how I scratched the leg shield when using flathead and a socket wrench with a ton of effort to loosen the bolt enough to make space for dremel cutter.

I know it is a beater scarred style, but with those two scratches now I am pissed, so Im gonna try to get a small bottle of paint matched up to this so I can touch those scratches up since they are right on the face of the leg shield where the badge goes.
Bummer. Good luck!
Addicted
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 723
Location: Staten Island, NY
Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:44 am quote
If I need a press to take the linkage apart and replace with new bearings, I am thinking of this press:
https://www.harborfreight.com/6-ton-a-frame-bench-shop-press-1666.html
Hooked
P125x (P200 Motor)
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 136
Location: Alexandria, VA
Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:51 am quote
swiss1939 wrote:
If I need a press to take the linkage apart and replace with new bearings, I am thinking of this press:
https://www.harborfreight.com/6-ton-a-frame-bench-shop-press-1666.html
That get's great reviews from my fiends, and on other forums. It is often on sale too.
Addicted
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 723
Location: Staten Island, NY
Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:06 am quote
Not sure I want to attempt removing the linkage.. It seems even Hodge said it's difficult.

P front axel removal from link - best method??
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1124
Location: Florence, OR
Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:20 am quote
Wow Swiss - you're getting after it! Right on! It looks like it took a salt bath for a while or someone rode it on the beach and never hosed it off - gnarly....

I'm enjoying the pictures and you're doing great man!
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1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 723
Location: Staten Island, NY
Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:28 pm quote
I wish I was getting after it! I'm slow and steady! I just read another post that said most guys here could rebuild a p motor in 1-3 hrs. I'm sure I will take my time on it and it will take me 2 weeks. The frame paint/rust I am very cautious about and have been doing like 30 min to an hour most a day out of hesitation. I have a feeling I am gonna take months to do this complete rebuild.. a little every day, since it's my first for almost every aspect of this.

Regarding the suspension linkage.. this just popped up on my youtube feed. Gonna watch it and see if maybe I could do this with that harbor freight press as I would prefer to do it right and rebuild completely.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jyw9IYrFnjw
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1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 723
Location: Staten Island, NY
Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:52 pm quote
Whoever this Italian is.. thanks for these obscure tips! rebuilding a suspension linkage.. and also how to remove the fork races upper and lower, using a long threaded rod and washer to bang out the race! I've been pondering this for a week or so as I work on the rust.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1nZQJLeU5M
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