First Scooter, not my first project. (Now going electric!)
Post Reply    Forum -> Not-So-Modern Previous12345678Next
Author Message
Resident Grump
MAC Motor, BBSHD. 30 Oct 2006
Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 15907
Location: MN
Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:51 am quote
Great thread, also on endless_sphere.com

THANKS!!!


https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=109761
Hooked
P125x (4KW Hub Motor)
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 284
Location: Alexandria, VA
Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:51 am quote
charlieman22 wrote:
Cool.
I was surprised at how well they (QS) responded to my questions - and were able to educate me pretty quickly.
They have an Aliexpress shop as well.
Looking forward to seeing how this comes together.
I checked with their Aliexpress site, but it was cheaper to order directly.
Hooked
P125x (4KW Hub Motor)
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 284
Location: Alexandria, VA
Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:55 am quote
Christopher_55934 wrote:
What does the battery management system look like for this? From the cell information I can find it looks like you should be able to charge those at 2.450 amps for a standard charge. So that should be about a 17 amp 72 volt charger, or about a 1000 watts? Should be able to charge using a standard 15 amp wall outlet.
I'm not 100% on this. I am still learning, but the batteries used are
eon lithium ICR21700 cells and the BMW is 150amps. I am getting a 10 amp charger, which will take about 10 hours from empty to fully charged, so I am told.
Hooked
P125x (4KW Hub Motor)
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 284
Location: Alexandria, VA
Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:56 am quote
tomjasz wrote:
Great thread, also on endless_sphere.com

THANKS!!!


https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=109761
Yup, and ADVRider, and EBR.
Hooked
P125x (4KW Hub Motor)
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 284
Location: Alexandria, VA
Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:11 pm quote
Since I am going electric, I would like to swap in all LED lighting to reduce the load. Does anyone have a list of part numbers for the stock bulbs, and even maybe LED replacements? I tried a search, but failed.
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1404
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:11 pm quote
JimVonBaden wrote:
Christopher_55934 wrote:
What does the battery management system look like for this? From the cell information I can find it looks like you should be able to charge those at 2.450 amps for a standard charge. So that should be about a 17 amp 72 volt charger, or about a 1000 watts? Should be able to charge using a standard 15 amp wall outlet.
I'm not 100% on this. I am still learning, but the batteries used are
eon lithium ICR21700 cells and the BMW is 150amps. I am getting a 10 amp charger, which will take about 10 hours from empty to fully charged, so I am told.
Unless there is something limiting the charger besides its output, such as battery temperature, it should take about 4 hours. Shouldn't get to hot as your charging at a slower then the standard charge current according to the manufacturer. Doesn't hurt anything just takes a little longer. If your using the 34 amp hour battery mentioned earlier and the charger is 10 amps @ 72 volts. The first phase, or the bulk phase should push 10 amps of constant current until the battery is about 80% charged or 27.2 amp hours or 2.7 hours at 10 amps. This leaves about 6.8 amp hours to put back in the battery. Depending on the charger and its capabilities, once a cell reach 4.2 volts, it should switch to constant voltage and hold the voltage for each cell at about 4.2 volts and decrease the current until a preset cut off for current is reached. Usually that setpoint is a percentage of the charging current so the charger may stop at 10% or 1 amp of current. That's why you can charge a dead battery fairly quickly to 80%, but it may take an hour for that last 20%.
Hooked
P125x (4KW Hub Motor)
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 284
Location: Alexandria, VA
Mon Jan 04, 2021 4:34 pm quote
Christopher_55934 wrote:
JimVonBaden wrote:
Christopher_55934 wrote:
What does the battery management system look like for this? From the cell information I can find it looks like you should be able to charge those at 2.450 amps for a standard charge. So that should be about a 17 amp 72 volt charger, or about a 1000 watts? Should be able to charge using a standard 15 amp wall outlet.
I'm not 100% on this. I am still learning, but the batteries used are
eon lithium ICR21700 cells and the BMW is 150amps. I am getting a 10 amp charger, which will take about 10 hours from empty to fully charged, so I am told.
Unless there is something limiting the charger besides its output, such as battery temperature, it should take about 4 hours. Shouldn't get to hot as your charging at a slower then the standard charge current according to the manufacturer. Doesn't hurt anything just takes a little longer. If your using the 34 amp hour battery mentioned earlier and the charger is 10 amps @ 72 volts. The first phase, or the bulk phase should push 10 amps of constant current until the battery is about 80% charged or 27.2 amp hours or 2.7 hours at 10 amps. This leaves about 6.8 amp hours to put back in the battery. Depending on the charger and its capabilities, once a cell reach 4.2 volts, it should switch to constant voltage and hold the voltage for each cell at about 4.2 volts and decrease the current until a preset cut off for current is reached. Usually that setpoint is a percentage of the charging current so the charger may stop at 10% or 1 amp of current. That's why you can charge a dead battery fairly quickly to 80%, but it may take an hour for that last 20%.
Good info. I am a bit of a noob on this. My ebike charges in about 4 hours from empty. 10 ah battery and a 2.5 amp charger.
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1404
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:44 pm quote
JimVonBaden wrote:
Christopher_55934 wrote:
JimVonBaden wrote:
Christopher_55934 wrote:
What does the battery management system look like for this? From the cell information I can find it looks like you should be able to charge those at 2.450 amps for a standard charge. So that should be about a 17 amp 72 volt charger, or about a 1000 watts? Should be able to charge using a standard 15 amp wall outlet.
I'm not 100% on this. I am still learning, but the batteries used are
eon lithium ICR21700 cells and the BMW is 150amps. I am getting a 10 amp charger, which will take about 10 hours from empty to fully charged, so I am told.
Unless there is something limiting the charger besides its output, such as battery temperature, it should take about 4 hours. Shouldn't get to hot as your charging at a slower then the standard charge current according to the manufacturer. Doesn't hurt anything just takes a little longer. If your using the 34 amp hour battery mentioned earlier and the charger is 10 amps @ 72 volts. The first phase, or the bulk phase should push 10 amps of constant current until the battery is about 80% charged or 27.2 amp hours or 2.7 hours at 10 amps. This leaves about 6.8 amp hours to put back in the battery. Depending on the charger and its capabilities, once a cell reach 4.2 volts, it should switch to constant voltage and hold the voltage for each cell at about 4.2 volts and decrease the current until a preset cut off for current is reached. Usually that setpoint is a percentage of the charging current so the charger may stop at 10% or 1 amp of current. That's why you can charge a dead battery fairly quickly to 80%, but it may take an hour for that last 20%.
Good info. I am a bit of a noob on this. My ebike charges in about 4 hours from empty. 10 ah battery and a 2.5 amp charger.
The first 80% or 8 amps, should take about 3.2 hours, 8 amp hours/2.5 amps = 3.2 hours. That last 2 amp amp hours takes about 0.5 - 1 hour. Sounds like that's about what the math would calculate out too.
Hooked
P125x (4KW Hub Motor)
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 284
Location: Alexandria, VA
Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:31 am quote
A little spot filler to fill in the scratches and dimples!




Hooked
P125x (4KW Hub Motor)
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 284
Location: Alexandria, VA
Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:35 am quote


Hooked
P125x (4KW Hub Motor)
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 284
Location: Alexandria, VA
Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:14 pm quote
Ready for primer. I can't go any further until I receive the primer. I wont paint it until I have all the electrical in place for fit. I may need to do some more fab. Next up the front suspension and rear shock. I have a new handlebar holder and cover, so minimal work there.





Molto Verboso
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 1979
Location: california
Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:12 am quote
Lookin good.
One comment - for a watch point.
Since you needed to use some filler on the floor board - be super careful about leaving it at the junction of floor board and tunnel where the tunnel's steel's thickness sits on the floor board.

The seam will flex with use - and any filler that is there is prone to cracking after paint/use (in my limited experience).

Others more versed can comment/ correct. This scoot body has come a long way already.
Hooked
P125x (4KW Hub Motor)
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 284
Location: Alexandria, VA
Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:47 pm quote
charlieman22 wrote:
Lookin good.
One comment - for a watch point.
Since you needed to use some filler on the floor board - be super careful about leaving it at the junction of floor board and tunnel where the tunnel's steel's thickness sits on the floor board.

The seam will flex with use - and any filler that is there is prone to cracking after paint/use (in my limited experience).

Others more versed can comment/ correct. This scoot body has come a long way already.
This particular filler is POR 15 seam filler. As with most fillers, most of it will be ground off, but I hear you.

Thanks,
Hooked
P125x (4KW Hub Motor)
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 284
Location: Alexandria, VA
Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:43 pm quote
Battery maker just finished the battery. I should have it next week.










Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 2974
Location: Nashville
Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:23 am quote
Battery looks awesome.

Was Daly Electronics the source (reading the badge on the BMS, but too lazy to google)?
Hooked
P125x (4KW Hub Motor)
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 284
Location: Alexandria, VA
Sat Jan 09, 2021 6:35 am quote
chandlerman wrote:
Battery looks awesome.

Was Daly Electronics the source (reading the badge on the BMS, but too lazy to google)?
I looked it up, and yes. Here is a link. My battery guy has them.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32924399920.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.1.383e4078Iv6gS8
Hooked
P125x (4KW Hub Motor)
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 284
Location: Alexandria, VA
Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:28 am quote
charlieman22 wrote:
Muuuuch better.
Like this design a lot.
Once gusseted - will be excellent.
Nice evolution.
Quote:
There is a guy who put a motor in the swingarm of his small frame.
This is the route that keeps the gears - but more complicated/heavy as you note.
Seen a few myself - some cleaner than others...
Do you have any pics of that one?
Would be interested to see.
Another example of an electric motor within the Vespa gearbox.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXuz0pHAAHU
Hooked
P125x (4KW Hub Motor)
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 284
Location: Alexandria, VA
Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:47 am quote
The wiring on the scooter will be all new. This is my current (pardon the pun) take on it.

For the motor, battery and controller electrics:


For the scooter electrics:


Motor electrics borrowed partly from the internet.
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2891

Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:44 am quote
“20 D Energizer batteries”^^^
Hooked
P125x (4KW Hub Motor)
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 284
Location: Alexandria, VA
Sat Jan 09, 2021 3:43 pm quote
Parts are starting to come in:



DC DC converter from 72V to 12V. Amp/Volt/Current meter. 300amp circuit breaker.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2586
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:27 pm quote
this is so far over my head but I am loving following along with it!
Molto Verboso
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 1979
Location: california
Sat Jan 09, 2021 6:24 pm quote
Looks promising!
Given that its going to be much more silent - I would consider a horn upgrade.
I'm sure you're familiar with the two most popular air horn blasters.
I have one on my sidecar - and it will stop a person turning right out of a parking lot in front of me - dead in their tracks.
- I recently had someone look me right in the eyes - then start to pull out - and the horn shocked them enough that they still stopped - just out of pure confusion.

Thanks for the second vid on geared version.
Familiar with that one.
Pretty nice execution - tho gearing still seems to high in 1srt anyway - but overall impressive in my view.
Hooked
1958 Allstate Super Cruisaire 2005 70cc Yamaha Vino
Joined: 23 Aug 2020
Posts: 141
Location: Philadelphia
Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:10 pm quote
swiss1939 wrote:
this is so far over my head but I am loving following along with it!
same.
Hooked
P125x (4KW Hub Motor)
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 284
Location: Alexandria, VA
Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:30 pm quote
swiss1939 wrote:
this is so far over my head but I am loving following along with it!
It is a learn as you go kind of deal, like 2-stroke tuning. I am better at electrics!
Hooked
P125x (4KW Hub Motor)
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 284
Location: Alexandria, VA
Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:32 pm quote
charlieman22 wrote:
Looks promising!
Given that its going to be much more silent - I would consider a horn upgrade.
I'm sure you're familiar with the two most popular air horn blasters.
I have one on my sidecar - and it will stop a person turning right out of a parking lot in front of me - dead in their tracks.
- I recently had someone look me right in the eyes - then start to pull out - and the horn shocked them enough that they still stopped - just out of pure confusion.

Thanks for the second vid on geared version.
Familiar with that one.
Pretty nice execution - tho gearing still seems to high in 1srt anyway - but overall impressive in my view.
Definitely. I have this on my BMW GS:

Molto Verboso
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 1979
Location: california
Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:30 pm quote
exactly.
no nonsense effective.
thumbs up emoji if they had one on here to hit.
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1404
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:10 am quote
You need an external speaker hooked to a recording of a bicycle with a card in the spokes. Have it playing while your in town.
Hooked
P125x (4KW Hub Motor)
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 284
Location: Alexandria, VA
Sun Jan 10, 2021 6:19 am quote
Christopher_55934 wrote:
You need an external speaker hooked to a recording of a bicycle with a card in the spokes. Have it playing while your in town.
Oh that would be funny. Or I could have a bluetooth speaker and play Harley sounds!
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1404
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 2974
Location: Nashville
Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:28 am quote
which horns are those, btw?
Molto Verboso
Vespa
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 1248
Location: California
Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:55 am quote
charlieman22 wrote:
Looks promising!
Given that its going to be much more silent - I would consider a horn upgrade.
I'm sure you're familiar with the two most popular air horn blasters.
I have one on my sidecar - and it will stop a person turning right out of a parking lot in front of me - dead in their tracks.
- I recently had someone look me right in the eyes - then start to pull out - and the horn shocked them enough that they still stopped - just out of pure confusion.

Thanks for the second vid on geared version.
Familiar with that one.
Pretty nice execution - tho gearing still seems to high in 1srt anyway - but overall impressive in my view.
CM2 you are one funny dood. What are the details on the horn and can you hide them easily on a vintage stock scooter?
Hooked
P125x (4KW Hub Motor)
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 284
Location: Alexandria, VA
Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:16 am quote
Christopher_55934 wrote:
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a35075187/tesla-holiday-firmware-fart/
Awesome!
Hooked
P125x (4KW Hub Motor)
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 284
Location: Alexandria, VA
Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:18 am quote
chandlerman wrote:
which horns are those, btw?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/FISA-EVO-COMPACT-HI-PERFORMANCE-ELECTRO-PNEUMATIC-AIR-HORN-CAR-MOTOR-BIKE-FDE2/111400001326

Smaller than many of the air horns, and very well made. My put it under the left rear cowl.
Hooked
P125x (4KW Hub Motor)
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 284
Location: Alexandria, VA
Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:23 am quote
Thanks again to Resistor for helping me work through the motor wiring. I think I am getting close. I completely redid the motor diagram, and updated the bike wiring. I am using a new fuse block, and completely hand wiring the bike. I plan to reuse the switches as much as possible, and adding a device that will translate the throttle cable to electrical impulses to keep it stock as possible looking. The clutch lever will be repurposed, or replaced, with a rear disc brake set-up.




Just waiting on all the parts to come in. So far I have the Inverter, 72V to 12V 25 amp, the main battery cut off, and the amp/current meter in hand.

Battery should be here this week, and the motor and controller plus brake mechanicals next week.
Molto Verboso
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 1979
Location: california
Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:38 am quote
I used this one.
Have on sidecar - but I suspect it could have been tucked under rear left cowl or even under rear fender in some fashion - so it is exposed.
Made the error (more than once) of removing the chrome handlebar switch and accidentally setting off the horn in my garage.
Sphincter tightening loud.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CMX20H4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Hooked
P125x (4KW Hub Motor)
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 284
Location: Alexandria, VA
Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:38 pm quote
charlieman22 wrote:
I used this one.
Have on sidecar - but I suspect it could have been tucked under rear left cowl or even under rear fender in some fashion - so it is exposed.
Made the error (more than once) of removing the chrome handlebar switch and accidentally setting off the horn in my garage.
Sphincter tightening loud.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CMX20H4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
That is the standard for air horns. Mine is as loud, but 1"+ smaller in every direction. Fit my BMW GS much better.
Molto Verboso
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 1979
Location: california
Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:45 pm quote
Nice installation as well judging from the pics.
Smaller + just as loud = better for vespa.
If that's the case - I would go with it.
Once you are DC - it's one of the nice available upgrades.
Member
2013 S150; 1961 VBB
Joined: 18 Feb 2019
Posts: 26
Location: Dallas
Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:36 pm quote
I use this horn for my electric: https://www.amazon.com/FIAMM-72112-Freeway-Blaster-Note/dp/B000DINKPQ/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=freeway+blaster+horn&qid=1610420420&sr=8-3. It is pretty inexpensive, small, doesn't require a relay(I use one anyway), and sounds like a car horn. I have it mounted under the right side cowl, but it could be mounted almost anywhere except in the horn cast. When I accidentally set it off in the garage, my wife comes out to find out if I'm okay.

The reason I mention it at all is that in traffic, you want the biggest badass horn you can get. But when you are riding in a residential neighborhood, your scooter is quiet enough that pedestrians cannot hear your approach. Touch the horn button and an air horn will require said pedestrian to change their pants. To quote Spiderman, "with great power comes great responsibility".
Hooked
P125x (4KW Hub Motor)
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 284
Location: Alexandria, VA
Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:10 am quote
resistor wrote:
I use this horn for my electric: https://www.amazon.com/FIAMM-72112-Freeway-Blaster-Note/dp/B000DINKPQ/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=freeway+blaster+horn&qid=1610420420&sr=8-3. It is pretty inexpensive, small, doesn't require a relay(I use one anyway), and sounds like a car horn. I have it mounted under the right side cowl, but it could be mounted almost anywhere except in the horn cast. When I accidentally set it off in the garage, my wife comes out to find out if I'm okay.

The reason I mention it at all is that in traffic, you want the biggest badass horn you can get. But when you are riding in a residential neighborhood, your scooter is quiet enough that pedestrians cannot hear your approach. Touch the horn button and an air horn will require said pedestrian to change their pants. To quote Spiderman, "with great power comes great responsibility".
I was on the freeway with my GS and a lady had the phone to her left ear as she blindly started to merge into me. I hit my air horn and she was so startled that she accidentally threw her phone out the open window and swerved right. I thought it was pretty funny at the time. Later my wife asked what would have happened had she, in her fear, swerved more left. Sobering thought. I am more careful using my horn these days.
Molto Verboso
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 1979
Location: california
Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:48 am quote
Quote:
When I accidentally set it off in the garage, my wife comes out to find out if I'm okay.
Been there
Quote:
I hit my air horn and she was so startled that she accidentally threw her phone out the open window
haven't been there!

I am cautious about just blaring it at people.
I had a horrible incedent pulling into Starbucks tho.

Sunny day.
People all out front sipping coffee and chilling.
Had entire crowds attention - as the sidecar often gets.
Space was in front of seating area - no more than 5 feet away.
I cooly reached to press the kill switch - and in a daydream - hammered the horn button.
Oh man.
The fear & shock.

Profusely apologized as I removed helmet.
So so sorry!
oops.
Team Scooter Trash for Petfinder Foundation   DoubleGood Vespa T-Shirts   Yelcome Leather Top Cases and Roll Bags for Piaggio Vespa PX LX LXV GTS GTV
Post Reply    Forum -> Not-So-Modern Previous12345678Next
[ Time: 0.1702s ][ Queries: 25 (0.0312s) ][ Debug on ]