The Elettrica has arrived in the US
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eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
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Mon May 13, 2019 11:30 am quote
I'm pretty certain that BMW are further down the road when it comes to electrically powered vehicles than Vespa are right now if you consider how long the i3 and i8 have been out.

Just like Toyota with the Hybrids, they really have committed.

Bill x
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Mon May 13, 2019 1:35 pm quote
Harbinger wrote:
tdrake wrote:
My hunch is the next time I'm in Amsterdam, where the taxis are often Teslas and you can ride a 50cc scooter in the bike lane, we'll see a bunch of these.

I mean, it's not like Vespas exactly ever sold like hot cakes here in North America anyway, and your average Harley comes in at 2-3x that price.

And $8,000 is chump change for many in Amsterdam or, say, Paris or Berlin...Tokyo...Seoul....
$8,000 is not chump change for me but sure I could afford this without having to eat Kraft Dinner every day for a year. However NOT INTERESTED . I was at the dealer last week and I asked Lou when he was going to get it. He said "you're standing next to it" . I looked over for about 5 seconds and that's about as much attention as I will give it. I guess there is a market for it but not for people like me and many here that love riding faster than parking lot speeds. Why could Piaggio do something that is only marginally better than the little e-bikes you see in the bike lanes. I'm sure the build quality is Vespa but why did they not do a GTS or BV with battery power? BMW has proven you can do it and scooters are not their forte. Piaggio should be the leader in this market and hopefully this is just the beginning. A battery powered GTS with decent range would sell like... well a battery powered GTS. I'm sure there are plenty that would pay a few thousand more for one and lose pet carrier space if needed for battery.

[/rant]
Aye, yer probably right. I can't see how they "justify" the $7,000 or whatever price tag on gas models to begin with, though, so their entire market strategy clearly isn't aimed at the likes of me or my rationale -- I'm pretty sure the two 15-20 year-old cars in my driveway are not worth $8,000 combined, together.
Bill Dog wrote:
I'm pretty certain that BMW are further down the road when it comes to electrically powered vehicles than Vespa are right now if you consider how long the i3 and i8 have been out.

Just like Toyota with the Hybrids, they really have committed.

Bill x
And here is why I think the Piaggio electric remains so overpriced: BMW motorcycles are a large subsidiary of a huge motor vehicle company, so kicking some of their auto electric tech over toward bikes has gotta free-to-cheap; most of the tech costs are already being picked up by the BMW automotive research depts.

While Piaggio's entrance into electric represents its total commitment to that kind of technology, starting from scratch.

Or, put another way, BMW has 130,000 employees. Piaggio has 7,000.
Molto Verboso
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Mon May 13, 2019 9:45 pm quote
Amsterdam and bike lanes, all larger European & Asian cities... definitely potential places for light electric vehicles.

The one thing that really is captivating with all electric vehicles is the noise - or lack of it. Once you'll "hisss around" for a while, it feels so natural and has a good fit to pedestrian/bicycle populated areas.

I do also have doupts on the Vespa pricing, but time will tell...
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
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Mon May 13, 2019 10:10 pm quote
Look
On the point of noise - the more popular electric vehicles become the more pedestrians will be looking out for them.

You can't really hear electric vehicles over the sound of traffic so people will often step into their path because they are unaware of their presence.

Bill x
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Mon May 13, 2019 11:52 pm quote
They have their place and purpose.

Here in the UK if you live in London and work in London, they'd be great. Cheap on congestion charge, cheap to run and its busy so the top speed wouldnt be an issue.

Up here in the north east (400mile away) they'd be a nightmare, most roads are A roads, ie. 60mph and using one of these, like a 50cc would be a death trap.

Suppose for mainstream use the speed and battery tech needs to progress.

Again, if your on an island, like Ibiza etc, these would be perfect.
Hooked
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Tue May 14, 2019 12:37 am quote
webbaldo wrote:
They have their place and purpose.


Suppose for mainstream use the speed and battery tech needs to progress.

Again, if your on an island, like Ibiza etc, these would be perfect.
They would be great for here on Cyprus, but at the moment cost prohibitive. I am sure in the next few years the cost will fall considerably as demand grows and the range and speed of the scooters increases.
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Tue May 14, 2019 1:37 am quote
webbaldo wrote:
if your on an island, like Ibiza etc, these would be perfect.
That might be an interesting way of marketing them. You hire them from a "station" where they charge. You stop paying for hiring charges when you plug them in at another station. More people could then use the same vehicle all day. There'd obviously be no pollution and no noise. Reliability would be great. The speed limit and range wouldn't be an issue either.

Only real problem is cost and infrastructure. Vespas are also a terrible design for a hired scooter - I'd imagine every scooter gets dropped at least once a month, probably more often especially if it's a heavier bike with all those batteries, and sadly Vespas are expensive to repair if you're wanting them to look good. A Honda Ruckas would be a better choice.
Hooked
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Tue May 14, 2019 5:55 am quote
robinm wrote:
webbaldo wrote:
if your on an island, like Ibiza etc, these would be perfect.
That might be an interesting way of marketing them. You hire them from a "station" where they charge. You stop paying for hiring charges when you plug them in at another station. More people could then use the same vehicle all day. There'd obviously be no pollution and no noise. Reliability would be great. The speed limit and range wouldn't be an issue either.

Only real problem is cost and infrastructure. Vespas are also a terrible design for a hired scooter - I'd imagine every scooter gets dropped at least once a month, probably more often especially if it's a heavier bike with all those batteries, and sadly Vespas are expensive to repair if you're wanting them to look good. A Honda Ruckas would be a better choice.
Not that anyone asked, but islands are also a terrible place to generate electricity for these scoots -- at least at present. Most islands rely on shipped-in coal or LNG for base load electricity, and diesel for peak demand. The coal and diesel are both terrible from a carbon standpoint, and both of these generation sources lead to the highest cost-per-KW prices in the world, compared to locales with an actual grid.

So under current dynamics, you'd be tankering in diesel, running a generator to store electricity in a battery, then spending that energy to get around. Better off cutting out the economic and transmission costs, and just burning Dinosaur Juice in your Vespa.

That's going to flip in the next 10-20 years, and EVs will become the cheapest off-takers of peak renewable generation, as the world shifts to distributed/micro-grids. Our EVs will go from A to B running on waste electricity generated during the day, and help stabilize the grid whenever they're plugged in.

Islands have the most to gain by making the shift, from a cost and need perspective, so they'll also be among the first to flip to all-EV, all-the-time.
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Tue May 14, 2019 6:00 am quote
robinm wrote:
webbaldo wrote:
if your on an island, like Ibiza etc, these would be perfect.
That might be an interesting way of marketing them. You hire them from a "station" where they charge. You stop paying for hiring charges when you plug them in at another station. More people could then use the same vehicle all day. There'd obviously be no pollution and no noise. Reliability would be great. The speed limit and range wouldn't be an issue either.

Only real problem is cost and infrastructure. Vespas are also a terrible design for a hired scooter - I'd imagine every scooter gets dropped at least once a month, probably more often especially if it's a heavier bike with all those batteries, and sadly Vespas are expensive to repair if you're wanting them to look good. A Honda Ruckas would be a better choice.
Yep. I don't see Vespa as being the quick rental kind of vehicle. A modified Ruckas or similar makes far more sense for something that is going to ger abused. Even 50CC putt putts will get dropped all the time.
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Tue May 14, 2019 6:29 am quote
Minister of Etc wrote:
Not that anyone asked, but islands are also a terrible place to generate electricity for these scoots
Agree with all your points but the islands I tend to go to (and hire or borrow scoots from) are in Greece and they just aren't big enough to generate their own electricity. I believe they use undersea cables from the mainland to get their electricity.
Harbinger wrote:
Yep. I don't see Vespa as being the quick rental kind of vehicle. A modified Ruckas or similar makes far more sense for something that is going to ger abused. Even 50CC putt putts will get dropped all the time.
I was having a beer with one of the scooter rental guys on the island I go to and he was almost crying over having two brand new scoots dropped in just a few days of bring them in. I told him to get the Ruckas too.
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Tue May 14, 2019 6:57 am quote
Confirmed US charging spec at 750W. EU is 1500W. It will not need a dedicated circuit to charge. Most US outlets can handle at least 1500W, no problem. 1500w is a hair dryer.

We'll probably see an software update to the dash charging timer, it calculates time remaining based on the 1500W EU charging spec. US owners will need to double that time on the dash.
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Tue May 14, 2019 9:27 am quote
Bill Dog wrote:
You can't really hear electric vehicles over the sound of traffic so people will often step into their path because they are unaware of their presence.
My electric car (a Nissan Leaf) makes one noise while backing up and a different one while going forward up to about 15 miles an hour. The point is to alert pedestrians.

I have heard that some electric vehicles can use a programmable sound, sort of like downloading a ring tone for your phone. Vroom vroom anyone?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Tue May 14, 2019 9:58 am quote
Dooglas wrote:
Bill Dog wrote:
You can't really hear electric vehicles over the sound of traffic so people will often step into their path because they are unaware of their presence.
My electric car (a Nissan Leaf) makes one noise while backing up and a different one while going forward up to about 15 miles an hour. The point is to alert pedestrians.

I have heard that some electric vehicles can use a programmable sound, sort of like downloading a ring tone for your phone. Vroom vroom anyone?
Can you get Darth Vader making vroom vroom sounds? Now that I'd be on board with.
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Tue May 14, 2019 10:31 am quote
In Italy the Toyota Prius [that are just about every Taxi ]make a loud beeping sound to alert pedestrians
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Tue May 14, 2019 1:55 pm quote
[quote="Dooglas"]
Bill Dog wrote:
I have heard that some electric vehicles can use a programmable sound, sort of like downloading a ring tone for your phone. Vroom vroom anyone?
Would have to get a good sound system, The sound of a Big Block Chevy with open headers coming from a Leaf would be great.
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Tue May 14, 2019 4:19 pm quote
[quote="WEB-Tech"]
Dooglas wrote:
Bill Dog wrote:
I have heard that some electric vehicles can use a programmable sound, sort of like downloading a ring tone for your phone. Vroom vroom anyone?
Would have to get a good sound system, The sound of a Big Block Chevy with open headers coming from a Leaf would be great.
I would want mine to sound like a Maserati Quattroporte.

BTW, I love the designation, "quattroporte". It sounds like it means something really cool like four valves per cylinder, or quad turbochargers.

Of course, it actually just means, "four door".
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Tue May 14, 2019 10:09 pm quote
camp
The theme from Benny Hill would turn a few heads as you whizzed along the cycle line.
eeee-bip
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Tue May 14, 2019 10:18 pm quote
Monster
I think the sound of a German marching band would be funny or the sound of a squeaky wheelbarrow.

Just sayin.

Bill x
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Wed May 15, 2019 12:31 am quote
Going slightly off topic when I was a kid in the 80s, I loved those tyco remote control car adverts.

'TYCO 9.6v TURBO POWER' voice over in a manly voice.

Tesla should do the same.

'TESLA 10.8KW SUPER POWER!'

Sales would go through the roof
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Wed May 15, 2019 1:20 am quote
It doesn't look like these things have a "ludicrous" mode unfortunately... but how many extra batteries can you fit into the pet carrier?
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Tue May 21, 2019 10:55 am quote
Re: Monster
[quote="Bill Dog" the sound of a squeaky wheelbarrow.

Just sayin.

Bill x[/quote]


12 hours!
Molto Verboso
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Wed May 22, 2019 3:27 am quote
Re: The Elettrica has arrived in the US
AF1 Racing wrote:
Got in 4 pre-sold Elettricas yesterday, just got them prepped, ready to roll.

They look real sharp. Ride nice. So quiet and smooth. Saw a 31mph top speed.
I got introduced to this wonderful little scoot at Vespa Toronto Wast. It is very cool compared the other e-bikes out there, in that it has region. As a PHEV owner driver, this appeals to me greatly, with one exception - the price. I know, I know, compared to the H-D Lightening, it is really inexpensive. This is really a city bike. Forget any excursions. Without L2 charging, you are also limited in having to wait for the charge to be up there.

Don't misinterpret my sentiment here - this is a fabulous Vespa, in keeping with the traditional lines and the tech is brilliant. I would probably wait out until the future gen's come out. I never buy Gen-1 of anything.
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Wed May 22, 2019 5:18 am quote
Re: Poles
Harbinger wrote:
Bill Dog wrote:
Interesting how BMW have gone big and Vespa have gone small.

Bill x
Good point. Vespa seems to be focusing on the putter around town market while BMW seems to be focusing on the urban commuter and someone with an M class license that knows how to ride.
I like the point you have made.
That is why Vespa sales are not happening in rural localities. Vespa does not market to this crowd, and it should.
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Thu May 23, 2019 3:42 pm quote
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Fri May 24, 2019 10:07 am quote
No way at that price. Not fogeyism, but common sense. These new products are going to glitch out on their owners. I predict product recalls. And 31mph? My 12 year old 49cc 2-valve slowie will do 45 indicated on flat ground. 31mph is not useful for me.

Iíd love to have a Vespa EV but the tech hasnít matured. I need more speed and range not less especially with an EV. Theyíre supposed to be quicker not slower. Also need quicker recharge time. 750W and the Europeans get 1500? Why?

I do hope all the early-adopting iPeople will jump on this so I can take my pick of their castoff ICE Vespas, but something tells me they might think the same way I do on this. Piaggio needs to do better.
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Sun May 26, 2019 5:50 am quote
Well we are already sold out and attempting to get more. The demand for this scooter is very high. The ride quality and torque to 31 MPH is amazing and the folks that are buying them know exactly its capabilities and are thrilled.

Piaggio has done well with this product and launch.

Best,
SDG
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Sun May 26, 2019 6:02 pm quote
hitbyastick wrote:
I do hope all the early-adopting iPeople will jump on this so I can take my pick of their castoff ICE Vespas,
In general iThings get completely dissed at release (because they don't do what my last thing did) and go on to become the norm.
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Sun May 26, 2019 10:03 pm quote
I wanted to like the Vespa EV, and I'd like to own a Vespa EV at some point. Liking the idea, however, does not get around the fact that the bike needs to be useful. A scooter that tops out at 31 mph is not useful for my purposes, it is not even safe for my purposes. Let me know when Vespa has an EV whose capabilities are similar to an LX or Primavera 150 - then we'll talk.
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Tue May 28, 2019 7:51 pm quote
SDG wrote:
Well we are already sold out and attempting to get more. The demand for this scooter is very high. The ride quality and torque to 31 MPH is amazing and the folks that are buying them know exactly its capabilities and are thrilled.

Piaggio has done well with this product and launch.

Best,
SDG
Have you sold the Piaggio eBikes?

Great news and congratulations on making the sales! Iím still surprised by the resistance. But the MSRP is oppressive for much of the market. Not unlike petrol Vespa. Iím not sure why Piaggio didnít introduce electrics with an easy upgrade of mileage and speed. The eBike kit builders in the USA are beating Piaggio in speed and mileage. Perhaps itís the weight, but then Zero and others have introduced much faster and better mileage with their products. I started down a conversion path only to realize I end up with a heavy weight. It was weight that turned me away from the beloved GTS.
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Wed May 29, 2019 9:06 am quote
eeee-bip
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Wed May 29, 2019 10:45 am quote
Future
I'll make a prediction.

This model will be the first step and Piaggio will suck it and see and if there's demand for a larger more powerful version.

Something within the volume of the GTS, but even this will be limited by it's dimensions if they choose to retain the classic Vespa body, which I guess people would want.

If they make something more cutting edge people probably wouldn't buy it.

You see the other manufactures aren't limited by that iconic shape as they can make anything they want because they don't have that heritage.

Granted the BMW looks like a BMW but other than that it's a clean sheet.

Bill x
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Wed May 29, 2019 12:47 pm quote
Future 2

Sometimes the limits can be an advantage, the Vespa is limited by its shape and yet it is the cause of its success; now tell me, who can know what the boundaries will be that will prevent an electric Vespa in the future with long autonomy, power, short charging times (but can also have an E-cat generator) and acceptable cost ..?

PS: sorry if I try to use your style, I like it.
eeee-bip
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Wed May 29, 2019 1:14 pm quote
Peace
How can the limits be an advantage when they are limits ?

They, by their nature create limitations.

A distinct lack of limits are an advantage surely ?

I'm sure that in time batteries will be lighter, smaller and have a greater range but for now their power is limited by their size especially when you have to mount a battery in a frame of those predestined proportions.

I doubt that fast charging will a be selling point because a PTW capable of 31 mph isn't the kind of scooter that you're going to feel the need to charge quickly.

It's probably going to be used to travel from home to work, maybe to the shops or church and back without the need to charge it quickly.

As a first step I think it's a good one.

Bill x
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Wed May 29, 2019 2:16 pm quote
Batteries can be made to any shape, not sure where the limitations are.
They could have multiple packs throughout the scooter.
The whole floor board area could be batteries, the legshield area batteries. Hell the side cowls could be full of batteries.
I don't see the limitations you do, I see lots of places to put batteries.
eeee-bip
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Wed May 29, 2019 2:34 pm quote
Must
Yeah, but better. easier and more cost effective to make one shape and put it in one place like under the seat.

You know, economics, logistics and all that.

Bill x
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Wed May 29, 2019 2:52 pm quote
https://www.zoomescooters.com/
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Wed May 29, 2019 3:45 pm quote
tomjasz wrote:
SDG wrote:
Well we are already sold out and attempting to get more. The demand for this scooter is very high. The ride quality and torque to 31 MPH is amazing and the folks that are buying them know exactly its capabilities and are thrilled.

Piaggio has done well with this product and launch.

Best,
SDG
Have you sold the Piaggio eBikes?

Great news and congratulations on making the sales! Iím still surprised by the resistance. But the MSRP is oppressive for much of the market. Not unlike petrol Vespa. Iím not sure why Piaggio didnít introduce electrics with an easy upgrade of mileage and speed. The eBike kit builders in the USA are beating Piaggio in speed and mileage. Perhaps itís the weight, but then Zero and others have introduced much faster and better mileage with their products. I started down a conversion path only to realize I end up with a heavy weight. It was weight that turned me away from the beloved GTS.
Actually Tom we had them for 6 months and they didnít sell for us so we stopped stocking them in our showroom.

SDG
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Wed May 29, 2019 5:45 pm quote
WEB-Tech wrote:
Batteries can be made to any shape, not sure where the limitations are.
They could have multiple packs throughout the scooter.
The whole floor board area could be batteries, the legshield area batteries. Hell the side cowls could be full of batteries.
I don't see the limitations you do, I see lots of places to put batteries.
It wouldn't be cost effective to dictate a new shape of a battery pack to the battery manufacturer. Most electric and hybrid autos use the same individual battery design and size and it's just a matter of how many they fit and stack together to fit in each car's battery housing.
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Wed May 29, 2019 6:39 pm quote
Re: Must
Bill Dog wrote:
Yeah, but better. easier and more cost effective to make one shape and put it in one place like under the seat.

You know, economics, logistics and all that.

Bill x
based on my experience building Li ion battery packs thereís enough room to easily raise range and speed. Look at SurRon, Zero, and others. Volume from my experience isnít the issue. Why Piaggio put out a limited speed and mileage version when others are far ahead makes no sense to me.

Piaggio remains a mystery to my USA centric views.
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Wed May 29, 2019 6:41 pm quote
SDG wrote:
Actually Tom we had them for 6 months and they didnít sell for us so we stopped stocking them in our showroom.

SDG
To bad. They were nice bikes. But alas, not a classic Vespa body. But with a scooter MSRP.

If you couldnít move them, no one could.
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