The Elettrica has arrived in the US
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eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
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Location: South East Great England of Britishland
Mon May 13, 2019 11:30 am quote
I'm pretty certain that BMW are further down the road when it comes to electrically powered vehicles than Vespa are right now if you consider how long the i3 and i8 have been out.

Just like Toyota with the Hybrids, they really have committed.

Bill x
Ossessionato
2006 GT200
Joined: 23 Feb 2016
Posts: 2652
Location: Moscow, Idaho
Mon May 13, 2019 1:35 pm quote
Harbinger wrote:
tdrake wrote:
My hunch is the next time I'm in Amsterdam, where the taxis are often Teslas and you can ride a 50cc scooter in the bike lane, we'll see a bunch of these.

I mean, it's not like Vespas exactly ever sold like hot cakes here in North America anyway, and your average Harley comes in at 2-3x that price.

And $8,000 is chump change for many in Amsterdam or, say, Paris or Berlin...Tokyo...Seoul....
$8,000 is not chump change for me but sure I could afford this without having to eat Kraft Dinner every day for a year. However NOT INTERESTED . I was at the dealer last week and I asked Lou when he was going to get it. He said "you're standing next to it" . I looked over for about 5 seconds and that's about as much attention as I will give it. I guess there is a market for it but not for people like me and many here that love riding faster than parking lot speeds. Why could Piaggio do something that is only marginally better than the little e-bikes you see in the bike lanes. I'm sure the build quality is Vespa but why did they not do a GTS or BV with battery power? BMW has proven you can do it and scooters are not their forte. Piaggio should be the leader in this market and hopefully this is just the beginning. A battery powered GTS with decent range would sell like... well a battery powered GTS. I'm sure there are plenty that would pay a few thousand more for one and lose pet carrier space if needed for battery.

[/rant]
Aye, yer probably right. I can't see how they "justify" the $7,000 or whatever price tag on gas models to begin with, though, so their entire market strategy clearly isn't aimed at the likes of me or my rationale -- I'm pretty sure the two 15-20 year-old cars in my driveway are not worth $8,000 combined, together.
Bill Dog wrote:
I'm pretty certain that BMW are further down the road when it comes to electrically powered vehicles than Vespa are right now if you consider how long the i3 and i8 have been out.

Just like Toyota with the Hybrids, they really have committed.

Bill x
And here is why I think the Piaggio electric remains so overpriced: BMW motorcycles are a large subsidiary of a huge motor vehicle company, so kicking some of their auto electric tech over toward bikes has gotta free-to-cheap; most of the tech costs are already being picked up by the BMW automotive research depts.

While Piaggio's entrance into electric represents its total commitment to that kind of technology, starting from scratch.

Or, put another way, BMW has 130,000 employees. Piaggio has 7,000.
Molto Verboso
Triumph Street Scrambler 2018, Suzuki VanVan200 (sold), 2015 Sprint 125 (sold)
Joined: 12 Apr 2015
Posts: 1696
Location: Finland
Mon May 13, 2019 9:45 pm quote
Amsterdam and bike lanes, all larger European & Asian cities... definitely potential places for light electric vehicles.

The one thing that really is captivating with all electric vehicles is the noise - or lack of it. Once you'll "hisss around" for a while, it feels so natural and has a good fit to pedestrian/bicycle populated areas.

I do also have doupts on the Vespa pricing, but time will tell...
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 15850
Location: South East Great England of Britishland
Mon May 13, 2019 10:10 pm quote
Look
On the point of noise - the more popular electric vehicles become the more pedestrians will be looking out for them.

You can't really hear electric vehicles over the sound of traffic so people will often step into their path because they are unaware of their presence.

Bill x
Hooked
1997 T5 Classic
Joined: 26 Dec 2008
Posts: 178
Location: Durham UK
Mon May 13, 2019 11:52 pm quote
They have their place and purpose.

Here in the UK if you live in London and work in London, they'd be great. Cheap on congestion charge, cheap to run and its busy so the top speed wouldnt be an issue.

Up here in the north east (400mile away) they'd be a nightmare, most roads are A roads, ie. 60mph and using one of these, like a 50cc would be a death trap.

Suppose for mainstream use the speed and battery tech needs to progress.

Again, if your on an island, like Ibiza etc, these would be perfect.
Hooked
GTS 300ie Touring
Joined: 03 Jun 2018
Posts: 263
Location: Limassol, Cyprus
Tue May 14, 2019 12:37 am quote
webbaldo wrote:
They have their place and purpose.


Suppose for mainstream use the speed and battery tech needs to progress.

Again, if your on an island, like Ibiza etc, these would be perfect.
They would be great for here on Cyprus, but at the moment cost prohibitive. I am sure in the next few years the cost will fall considerably as demand grows and the range and speed of the scooters increases.
Molto Verboso
GT200 & GTS250 & NC750X & Royal Enfield Pegasus
Joined: 23 Aug 2013
Posts: 1977
Location: London
Tue May 14, 2019 1:37 am quote
webbaldo wrote:
if your on an island, like Ibiza etc, these would be perfect.
That might be an interesting way of marketing them. You hire them from a "station" where they charge. You stop paying for hiring charges when you plug them in at another station. More people could then use the same vehicle all day. There'd obviously be no pollution and no noise. Reliability would be great. The speed limit and range wouldn't be an issue either.

Only real problem is cost and infrastructure. Vespas are also a terrible design for a hired scooter - I'd imagine every scooter gets dropped at least once a month, probably more often especially if it's a heavier bike with all those batteries, and sadly Vespas are expensive to repair if you're wanting them to look good. A Honda Ruckas would be a better choice.
Hooked
BV350 ABS
Joined: 16 Jul 2018
Posts: 105
Location: NYC
Tue May 14, 2019 5:55 am quote
robinm wrote:
webbaldo wrote:
if your on an island, like Ibiza etc, these would be perfect.
That might be an interesting way of marketing them. You hire them from a "station" where they charge. You stop paying for hiring charges when you plug them in at another station. More people could then use the same vehicle all day. There'd obviously be no pollution and no noise. Reliability would be great. The speed limit and range wouldn't be an issue either.

Only real problem is cost and infrastructure. Vespas are also a terrible design for a hired scooter - I'd imagine every scooter gets dropped at least once a month, probably more often especially if it's a heavier bike with all those batteries, and sadly Vespas are expensive to repair if you're wanting them to look good. A Honda Ruckas would be a better choice.
Not that anyone asked, but islands are also a terrible place to generate electricity for these scoots -- at least at present. Most islands rely on shipped-in coal or LNG for base load electricity, and diesel for peak demand. The coal and diesel are both terrible from a carbon standpoint, and both of these generation sources lead to the highest cost-per-KW prices in the world, compared to locales with an actual grid.

So under current dynamics, you'd be tankering in diesel, running a generator to store electricity in a battery, then spending that energy to get around. Better off cutting out the economic and transmission costs, and just burning Dinosaur Juice in your Vespa.

That's going to flip in the next 10-20 years, and EVs will become the cheapest off-takers of peak renewable generation, as the world shifts to distributed/micro-grids. Our EVs will go from A to B running on waste electricity generated during the day, and help stabilize the grid whenever they're plugged in.

Islands have the most to gain by making the shift, from a cost and need perspective, so they'll also be among the first to flip to all-EV, all-the-time.
Ossessionato
Modded Vespa 2017 GTV 300, BMW 2017 C650GT, Ural 2019 Gear Up
Joined: 21 May 2017
Posts: 4645
Location: Downtown Toronto
Tue May 14, 2019 6:00 am quote
robinm wrote:
webbaldo wrote:
if your on an island, like Ibiza etc, these would be perfect.
That might be an interesting way of marketing them. You hire them from a "station" where they charge. You stop paying for hiring charges when you plug them in at another station. More people could then use the same vehicle all day. There'd obviously be no pollution and no noise. Reliability would be great. The speed limit and range wouldn't be an issue either.

Only real problem is cost and infrastructure. Vespas are also a terrible design for a hired scooter - I'd imagine every scooter gets dropped at least once a month, probably more often especially if it's a heavier bike with all those batteries, and sadly Vespas are expensive to repair if you're wanting them to look good. A Honda Ruckas would be a better choice.
Yep. I don't see Vespa as being the quick rental kind of vehicle. A modified Ruckas or similar makes far more sense for something that is going to ger abused. Even 50CC putt putts will get dropped all the time.
Molto Verboso
GT200 & GTS250 & NC750X & Royal Enfield Pegasus
Joined: 23 Aug 2013
Posts: 1977
Location: London
Tue May 14, 2019 6:29 am quote
Minister of Etc wrote:
Not that anyone asked, but islands are also a terrible place to generate electricity for these scoots
Agree with all your points but the islands I tend to go to (and hire or borrow scoots from) are in Greece and they just aren't big enough to generate their own electricity. I believe they use undersea cables from the mainland to get their electricity.
Harbinger wrote:
Yep. I don't see Vespa as being the quick rental kind of vehicle. A modified Ruckas or similar makes far more sense for something that is going to ger abused. Even 50CC putt putts will get dropped all the time.
I was having a beer with one of the scooter rental guys on the island I go to and he was almost crying over having two brand new scoots dropped in just a few days of bring them in. I told him to get the Ruckas too.
Sponsor
Joined: 16 May 2011
Posts: 367
Location: Austin on IH35
Tue May 14, 2019 6:57 am quote
Confirmed US charging spec at 750W. EU is 1500W. It will not need a dedicated circuit to charge. Most US outlets can handle at least 1500W, no problem. 1500w is a hair dryer.

We'll probably see an software update to the dash charging timer, it calculates time remaining based on the 1500W EU charging spec. US owners will need to double that time on the dash.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Typhoon 125
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 10589
Location: Oregon City, OR
Tue May 14, 2019 9:27 am quote
Bill Dog wrote:
You can't really hear electric vehicles over the sound of traffic so people will often step into their path because they are unaware of their presence.
My electric car (a Nissan Leaf) makes one noise while backing up and a different one while going forward up to about 15 miles an hour. The point is to alert pedestrians.

I have heard that some electric vehicles can use a programmable sound, sort of like downloading a ring tone for your phone. Vroom vroom anyone?
Ossessionato
Modded Vespa 2017 GTV 300, BMW 2017 C650GT, Ural 2019 Gear Up
Joined: 21 May 2017
Posts: 4645
Location: Downtown Toronto
Tue May 14, 2019 9:58 am quote
Dooglas wrote:
Bill Dog wrote:
You can't really hear electric vehicles over the sound of traffic so people will often step into their path because they are unaware of their presence.
My electric car (a Nissan Leaf) makes one noise while backing up and a different one while going forward up to about 15 miles an hour. The point is to alert pedestrians.

I have heard that some electric vehicles can use a programmable sound, sort of like downloading a ring tone for your phone. Vroom vroom anyone?
Can you get Darth Vader making vroom vroom sounds? Now that I'd be on board with.
Hooked
2017 White Vespa 300 GTS Super/2017 Vespa Sprint "S" 150 Platinum
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Tue May 14, 2019 10:31 am quote
In Italy the Toyota Prius [that are just about every Taxi ]make a loud beeping sound to alert pedestrians
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 6586
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Tue May 14, 2019 1:55 pm quote
[quote="Dooglas"]
Bill Dog wrote:
I have heard that some electric vehicles can use a programmable sound, sort of like downloading a ring tone for your phone. Vroom vroom anyone?
Would have to get a good sound system, The sound of a Big Block Chevy with open headers coming from a Leaf would be great.
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Tue May 14, 2019 4:19 pm quote
[quote="WEB-Tech"]
Dooglas wrote:
Bill Dog wrote:
I have heard that some electric vehicles can use a programmable sound, sort of like downloading a ring tone for your phone. Vroom vroom anyone?
Would have to get a good sound system, The sound of a Big Block Chevy with open headers coming from a Leaf would be great.
I would want mine to sound like a Maserati Quattroporte.

BTW, I love the designation, "quattroporte". It sounds like it means something really cool like four valves per cylinder, or quad turbochargers.

Of course, it actually just means, "four door".
Hooked
Vespa PX 125 Settantesimo
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Tue May 14, 2019 10:09 pm quote
camp
The theme from Benny Hill would turn a few heads as you whizzed along the cycle line.
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 15850
Location: South East Great England of Britishland
Tue May 14, 2019 10:18 pm quote
Monster
I think the sound of a German marching band would be funny or the sound of a squeaky wheelbarrow.

Just sayin.

Bill x
Hooked
1997 T5 Classic
Joined: 26 Dec 2008
Posts: 178
Location: Durham UK
Wed May 15, 2019 12:31 am quote
Going slightly off topic when I was a kid in the 80s, I loved those tyco remote control car adverts.

'TYCO 9.6v TURBO POWER' voice over in a manly voice.

Tesla should do the same.

'TESLA 10.8KW SUPER POWER!'

Sales would go through the roof
Veni, Vidi, Posti
LX190
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 5524
Location: New Zealand
Wed May 15, 2019 1:20 am quote
It doesn't look like these things have a "ludicrous" mode unfortunately... but how many extra batteries can you fit into the pet carrier?
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