Shinkos vs City Grips: Observations
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Hooked
2010 GTS 300
Joined: 15 Jan 2019
Posts: 237
Location: Texas
Sun May 12, 2019 8:10 am quote
I recently swapped my Shinko whitewalls for City Grips on the GTS. Here are a few observations, subjective only:

1. The City Grips seem to have a little more sidewall flex, giving a slightly softer ride.

2. Upright braking is much better with the City Grips. They just seem to "bite" better when I squeeze the levers.

3. The City Grips don't squirm as much on the highway.

4. The City Grips will "step out" when they hit a bump, wet paint stripe, or small stones when leaned over. The Shinkos did not do this. The Shinkos stayed "stuck down" on gravel, rough surfaces, and paint stripes when leaned over. This is at moderate speeds only; I'm not a lean and scrape type of rider any more, so the City Grips might be better in that regime.

5. With the City Grips, I now have the 30 mph wobble. Mild, and only noticeable with light pressure on the bars, but definitely there. There was no wobble with the Shinkos. Beats me why.

(Edited) 6. The City Grips need air more frequently, as well.

Overall, it was not a huge change mounting the City Grips. Some good, some bad. I'll keep the Shinkos in a cool, dry place and remount them when the City Grips are worn down.

My .02, and seat of the pants observations, only.

Last edited by 25BIKEZ on Sun May 12, 2019 11:26 am; edited 1 time in total
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Location: Oregon City, OR
Sun May 12, 2019 10:42 am quote
In my experience, the Shinko is a poor quality tire in comparison to the Michelin City Grip (or the Michelin Power Pure, for that matter). Storing a used set in the garage and then putting them back on your scooter in several years after the rubber compound has further hardened up is not a good idea IMO. Regarding the wobble - be sure the tires have been properly balanced and that they are correctly inflated. Also, do you have a topcase? if so, have you put heavier bar end weights on the scooter? This can also diminish the wobble.
Hooked
2010 GTS 300
Joined: 15 Jan 2019
Posts: 237
Location: Texas
Sun May 12, 2019 11:36 am quote
Thanks
Dooglas wrote:
In my experience, the Shinko is a poor quality tire in comparison to the Michelin City Grip (or the Michelin Power Pure, for that matter). Storing a used set in the garage and then putting them back on your scooter in several years after the rubber compound has further hardened up is not a good idea IMO. Regarding the wobble - be sure the tires have been properly balanced and that they are correctly inflated. Also, do you have a topcase? if so, have you put heavier bar end weights on the scooter? This can also diminish the wobble.
Thanks for the input.

As for storing the Shinkos, they only have about 300 miles on them, and they'll be in a cool, dry place, covered with a cloth, away from electric motors. In any case, I won't exceed 5 years from the date stamp.

I have the Jettin heavy bar weights on the GTS. They came on the bike when I purchased it.

The same multi brand (including scooters), independent dealer who's been servicing my bikes for 40 plus years mounted my tires. I suppose it's possible they made a mistake, but it seems unlikely. I get no vibration at speed with the City Grips, so I think they're balanced properly.

The wobble happens with and without my top case, with and without my tall windshield. It's not bothersome; it's just there now, and wasn't with the Shinkos.

I've used Shinkos many times over the decades (and Yokohamas before that) without complaint. Same with Michelins. I just wanted to try the City Grips based on MV forum feedback and could afford to do so.
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
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Sun May 12, 2019 11:40 am quote
Bin
For me there is no comparison between a Shinko and a City Grip.

Apart from the Power Pure there's not much better out there than the Grips right now.

The only thing worse than a Shinko is a Sava.

You can quote me.

Bill x
Hooked
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Location: Texas
Sun May 12, 2019 1:01 pm quote
Re: Bin Wondering
Bill Dog wrote:
For me there is no comparison between a Shinko and a City Grip.

Apart from the Power Pure there's not much better out there than the Grips right now.

The only thing worse than a Shinko is a Sava.

You can quote me.

Bill x
Thanks for your input.

Based on your ultra high mileage profile, and well regarded breadth of riding experiences, can I assume you have hundreds, if not thousands, of miles riding on Shinkos as well as Michelins, Avons, Dunlops, Pirellis, Contis, etc. upon which to base your judgement? Just asking.
Enthusiast
2019 Piaggio Liberty 150
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Sun May 12, 2019 7:52 pm quote
We used to call Shinko's "Sh*$ko's". They never felt balanced and they handled horrible in the wet. Then they started to improve. I still liken them to cost-conscious buyers looking for long life over grip, or people who ride conservative. Not the worse tire on the market but I run Michelin, because I tend to ride aggressive and grip is very important to me.
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
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Sun May 12, 2019 9:33 pm quote
List
Let me see - I've ridden on Pirelli, Continental, Maxxis, Dunlop, Sava, Shinkos, Metzeler, Michelin and Cordials on a Gilera Runner, Vespa ET4 x 2 GT 200 x 2, GTS 250,GTV 250, GTS300, BV350, Kymco 300 Downtown, Kymco 400 X-iting, Kymco AK550 and a Benelli TNT125 in every kind of weather condition you could think of.

In my experience Shinkos, like Savas are easily the worst of that bunch being, hard, cold and lacking feel and grip, so yeah the opposite total of what you want in a tyre.

I rode a Kymco Downtown 300 from Calais in Northern France to Valencia in Southern Spain and back in 53 hours - a distance of 2162 miles through heavy thunderstorms then roasting sun then thunderstorms again.

The City Grips I had fitted didn't aquaplane once because they are exceptional at cutting through standing water, especially the deep stuff, something I doubt a Shinko could manage.

I also despatch rode a Honda ( sorry Hodna ) CX500 for about 180,000 miles on Avon Road Runners right to the cords so yeah, I pretty know what I'm taking about, plus the fact I've been riding for 37 years so I've picked up some things along the way.

You really can't compare a Chinese tyre with anything made by Michelin as they are so inferior to the European product you can measure it.

The Benelli TNT I recently bought came with Chinese Cordials. They are vague at best in the dry but lethal in the wet so they are going get changed up for City Grips as quickly as possible.

As for the wobble that's a trait of the GTS so it's more to do with the scooter than it is the tyre so the best thing you can do with them is to tie the Shinko's to the side of a boat as they'll probably work better there.

Seriously, for your own safety don't think about refitting them.

Anything else ?

Bill x
Hooked
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Mon May 13, 2019 12:42 pm quote
Re: List
Bill Dog wrote:
Let me see - I've ridden on Pirelli, Continental, Maxxis, Dunlop, Sava, Shinkos, Metzeler, Michelin and Cordials on a Gilera Runner, Vespa ET4 x 2 GT 200 x 2, GTS 250,GTV 250, GTS300, BV350, Kymco 300 Downtown, Kymco 400 X-iting, Kymco AK550 and a Benelli TNT125 in every kind of weather condition you could think of.

In my experience Shinkos, like Savas are easily the worst of that bunch being, hard, cold and lacking feel and grip, so yeah the opposite total of what you want in a tyre.

I rode a Kymco Downtown 300 from Calais in Northern France to Valencia in Southern Spain and back in 53 hours - a distance of 2162 miles through heavy thunderstorms then roasting sun then thunderstorms again.

The City Grips I had fitted didn't aquaplane once because they are exceptional at cutting through standing water, especially the deep stuff, something I doubt a Shinko could manage.

I also despatch rode a Honda ( sorry Hodna ) CX500 for about 180,000 miles on Avon Road Runners right to the cords so yeah, I pretty know what I'm taking about, plus the fact I've been riding for 37 years so I've picked up some things along the way.

You really can't compare a Chinese tyre with anything made by Michelin as they are so inferior to the European product you can measure it.

The Benelli TNT I recently bought came with Chinese Cordials. They are vague at best in the dry but lethal in the wet so they are going get changed up for City Grips as quickly as possible.

As for the wobble that's a trait of the GTS so it's more to do with the scooter than it is the tyre so the best thing you can do with them is to tie the Shinko's to the side of a boat as they'll probably work better there.

Seriously, for your own safety don't think about refitting them.

Anything else ?

Bill x
A couple of things. Shinkos are Korean, not Chinese. Manufactured in Jinju, South Korea. My City Grips are Serbian, not French. Savas are Slovenian. European, yes, but in a global economic world where things come from is often not what it appears.

I typically like Diablos, but the feedback on MV is that they wear out fast. I'm still getting used to the whole 12 inch wheel thing.

As for the rest, 180k on a CX500? Epic. I remember wanting one back in the day but ended up with a Suzuki GS450S. There's an airman at the local base here with a kitted up CX-500 dressed like a cafe racer -fairing, clip ons, single seat with a butt stop, reverse cone pipes, the works. Got me thinking about another project.

Hope you're as well as can be expected. Thanks for the interesting discussion.
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
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Location: South East Great England of Britishland
Mon May 13, 2019 12:48 pm quote
Plus
At which point did I say that Shinkos were made in China ?

I didn't mention where Sava's came from either.

Nor did I state where City Grips came from.

Over to you.

Bill x
Veni, Vidi, Posti
LX190
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 5653
Location: New Zealand
Mon May 13, 2019 12:59 pm quote
Puzzled
After the first 1,000 miles pretending you were riding a Moto Guzzi why didn't you get a real one for the next 179,000?
Hooked
2010 GTS 300
Joined: 15 Jan 2019
Posts: 237
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Mon May 13, 2019 1:05 pm quote
Re: Plus
Bill Dog wrote:
At which point did I say that Shinkos were made in China ?

I didn't mention where Sava's came from either.

Nor did I state where City Grips came from.

Over to you.

Bill x
Hmm.."You really can't compare a Chinese tyre with anything made by Michelin as they are so inferior to to the European product you can measure it."

I suppose I inferred meaning from that. My bad.

And, City Grips aren't "made" by Michelin any more. They're "made" by Tigar, in Serbia.
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
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Mon May 13, 2019 1:05 pm quote
Plus
Because it would break down I guess.

Subcontracting is what you call it. They still carry the Michelin name.

It's like saying a Bertone X19 isn't a Fiat. They didn't build it but it's still a Fiat.

Bill x
Hooked
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Wed May 15, 2019 5:01 pm quote
Funny thing
Put a new City Grip front on my 'other scooter'. Noticed immediately that there is far greater resistance to turning the handlebars when at a stop. Thought the tire was low on air first couple of times. The Dunlop I removed may have been OEM (2010). Moral: Old tires lose grip. If I wanted to store tires for an extended period, I'd think about putting them into a low-permeability bag and filling it with pure nitrogen. Just the O2 in the air causes degradation.

The wobble is probably a function of sidewall stiffness vs. traction vs. frame rigidity. I suspect almost any bike without a steering damper will oscillate at some speed. Usually it is minor, and easily controlled. I would expect that removing the bar-end weights would raise the speed at which it wobbles. And possibly the severity.

I was raised to be extremely frugal. But I never economize on tires. I was going to say 'never cut corners' but that is precisely the reason for having good tires.
Hooked
2010 GTS 300
Joined: 15 Jan 2019
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Location: Texas
Wed May 15, 2019 6:18 pm quote
Re: Funny thing
Jimding wrote:
Put a new City Grip front on my 'other scooter'. Noticed immediately that there is far greater resistance to turning the handlebars when at a stop. Thought the tire was low on air first couple of times. The Dunlop I removed may have been OEM (2010). Moral: Old tires lose grip. If I wanted to store tires for an extended period, I'd think about putting them into a low-permeability bag and filling it with pure nitrogen. Just the O2 in the air causes degradation.

The wobble is probably a function of sidewall stiffness vs. traction vs. frame rigidity. I suspect almost any bike without a steering damper will oscillate at some speed. Usually it is minor, and easily controlled. I would expect that removing the bar-end weights would raise the speed at which it wobbles. And possibly the severity.

I was raised to be extremely frugal. But I never economize on tires. I was going to say 'never cut corners' but that is precisely the reason for having good tires.
Thanks for the storage tip.

Low cost does not necessarily mean low quality. The Japanese (Shinko's ownership base) and the Koreans (Shinko's manufacturing base) have forced European and American industries to up their games to compete. Lexus, Kia, Toyota, Honda all reside atop industry quality surveys, and have for decades. And they ride on Japanese and Korean tires. Honestly, would SPC, Scooter West, SIP, Dennis Kirk, Bike Bandit, Revzilla, and other outlets sell bad tires? They all sell Shinkos for scooters and motorcycles.

As to your observation on the steering damper, I've used them on older Japanese motorcycles with flexible frames to good effect. Are there comparable devices for scooters out there?
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
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Wed May 15, 2019 9:06 pm quote
Pulse
The wobble is a trait of the GTS chassis and certain brands of tyre will either improve or accentuate it.

To say that any bike without a steering damper will oscillate at some speed is simply incorrect.

If that was true every bike would arrive from the factory fitted with one to prevent issue.

Old tyres may well lose grip but maybe the true reason is tyre technology has improved so much the older tyres just don't have the capabilites of the new rubber.

It may also be the profile of the tyre making contact with the road.

Heidenau tyres, when new have a profile that's a little like the tip of a bullet so the contact patch is quite small for the first thousand miles.

It doesn't make them a bad tyre is just that the resistance will be less.

Scooter tyres are so cheap ( even the premium brands ) so once mine are changed they are going to the recycle station as every time you take a tyre off it's rim you damage the bead - I know this as I worked for a alloy wheel refurbishing company so my old ones are only going one way, off.

I'm also not that tight.

The Asian tyre makers havn't forced the American and European manufacturers to do anything.

Worldwide manufactures make tyres and sell them at a price that they think that the market will bare.

They are too concerned with safety, longevity and performance to feel the desire to look over the fence to see watch the pricing of the other brands.

The higher performance stuff sells for a premium and the budget less so and the customer pays the money and makes the choice.

As for the vehicle surveys I've worked for VW, Audi, BMW, Land Rover and Porsche and I don't ever remember seeing a survey where a customer has been question as been asked about the tyres.

It's feedback about the car that the manufacturer, press and JD Power are interested in, not the tyres.

It's not a case of a dealer selling "bad tyres". It's the difference between budget and premium.

Bill x

Last edited by Bill Dog on Wed May 15, 2019 10:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
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Wed May 15, 2019 10:04 pm quote
Posing
On the few occasions I've had the misfortune to ride a scooter with white wall tyres I've found them to be really awful.

Far worse than a standard tyre, no matter what the brand.

I almost crashed a friends LML just because there was no traction between the scooter and the road.

Really unpleasant.

I doubt that you'll ever see a serious rider ever use a pair of white walls because they are obviously into the aesthetics rather than the tyres abilities to grip.

Bill x
Hooked
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Thu May 16, 2019 8:25 am quote
Now Who's Posing?
Bill Dog wrote:
On the few occasions I've had the misfortune to ride a scooter with white wall tyres I've found them to be really awful.

Far worse than a standard tyre, no matter what the brand.

I almost crashed a friends LML just because there was no traction between the scooter and the road.

Really unpleasant.

I doubt that you'll ever see a serious rider ever use a pair of white walls because they are obviously into the aesthetics rather than the tyres abilities to grip.

Bill x
Interesting opinion. So you're saying the application of a white band (that doesn't touch the road) to otherwise identical blackwall tires (Shinko 723, Continental K62, Dunlop D404, Metzler ME888, et.al.) renders the tire somehow "far worse", and marks a rider as less "serious"? Please, do go on.
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
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Thu May 16, 2019 8:29 am quote
True
Yup, I can't honestly explain it.

Every scooter tyre I've ridden on with a while wall has been awful.

Yes, I'm sorry to say it but white walls are for show, which is why the wall is white.

It's not really an opinion, it's a fact.

Bill x
Enthusiast
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Thu May 16, 2019 8:45 am quote
sooooo if i take a black marker and blacken my whitewalls will i be able to get lower??!

sorry boys ...i couldnt resist
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
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Thu May 16, 2019 8:47 am quote
Bonus
Yes, and it will make you more attractive to women.

I know. I've tried it.

Bill x
Enthusiast
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Thu May 16, 2019 8:55 am quote
ironically she loves the scoot with the whitewalls best...which is they are on the slowest scoot in the stable
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
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Thu May 16, 2019 9:00 am quote
Plush
You see, I knew that it wasn't just me.

I was giving the Kymco some grief today and I have to admit that the Metzelers mounted on it are pretty are amazing.

Bill x
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Thu May 16, 2019 9:26 am quote
Bill Dog wrote:
On the few occasions I've had the misfortune to ride a scooter with white wall tyres I've found them to be really awful.

Far worse than a standard tyre, no matter what the brand.

I almost crashed a friends LML just because there was no traction between the scooter and the road.

Really unpleasant.
In the US, the only readily available whitewall scooter tires are Shinko and Prima. They are both poor quality tires IMO, but the black walled tires in these brands are nothing special either so no surprise. I realize that there are whitewalls available in Europe from more respected manufacturers. I have heard that Continental makes a decent whitewall scooter tire, but I have no personal experience with it.
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
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Thu May 16, 2019 9:28 am quote
Ask
Give me their addresses and I'll deal with it.

Bill x
Hooked
2010 GTS 300
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Thu May 16, 2019 9:30 am quote
Re: Plush
Bill Dog wrote:
You see, I knew that it wasn't just me.

I was giving the Kymco some grief today and I have to admit that the Metzelers mounted on it are pretty are amazing.

Bill x
Okay, that horse is dead.

Since you mentioned, and seem partial to, the Kymco brand, what's your opinion of the XCiting 500 model? Would a used one be a good bet?

I'm looking to expand the stable with something bigger, and have already owned Burgman and Majesty.

TIA.
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
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Thu May 16, 2019 9:37 am quote
Bonus
Maxxis, Mitas/Sava and Kenda still making scooter tyres with white walls.

That's all the premium brands dealt with.

The only fly in the ointment is Continental.

I'm being ironic at this point.

Bill x
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
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Thu May 16, 2019 9:41 am quote
Monster
I have to tread carefully here when I talk about Kymco.

I've had 3 and they have all been exceptional so yes an X-iting 500 would be a good choice.

Bill x
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
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Thu May 16, 2019 9:43 am quote
Almost
One did blow up on the Cannonball in 2012 but I'm pretty sure that was down to mechanical neglect rather than inferior build quality.

Bill x
Hooked
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Thu May 16, 2019 9:47 am quote
Re: Monster
Bill Dog wrote:
I have to tread carefully here when I talk about Kymco.

I've had 3 and they have all been exceptional so yes an X-iting 500 would be a good choice.

Bill x
Thanks. Always looking for my next ride.

Take care.
Hooked
Joined: 29 May 2007
Posts: 113
Location: Sacramento, NorCal
Thu May 16, 2019 10:44 am quote
I have Shinkos on my Burgman 400; they replaced Pirelli Diablos in a silly attempt to save a bit of money.

The Shinkos are OK. They are not particularly long-lived; about like the Diablos, but the Diablos handle noticeably better than the Shinkos, IMHO. The Shinkos also don't do well with the rain grooves prevalent in my area...they cause some significant headshake. This is a complete non-issue with the Diablos.

Next go-around, I'm trying the City Grips...many good reports on both handling and longevity.
Hooked
2010 GTS 300
Joined: 15 Jan 2019
Posts: 237
Location: Texas
Thu May 16, 2019 11:04 am quote
Diablos
I had Diablos on my Majesty 400 and they were a good match for the bike and my abilities.

I wonder if the head shake and squirminess of the Shinkos has to do with the tread block design(lots of discrete blocks compared to the Diablo and City Grip) and/or rubber hardness? I've read that on some of the adventure bike sites in comparison tests.

In any case, appreciate the feedback!
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
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Sun May 19, 2019 12:19 am quote
Post
I just think that it's an inferior product made from inferior materials and cheaply manufactured.

I'm making an assumption that tyres made and sold in the Asian market are probably not going to be designed with performance and grip in mind.

More like longevity, hence the lack of grip.

Bill x
Hooked
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Sun May 19, 2019 12:23 pm quote
The Solution!
This ought to satisfy everybody, eh?

High performance, Michelin on the sidewall, and bags of style.

images.jpeg

Molto Verboso
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Sun May 19, 2019 6:46 pm quote
Talking about Scooter tires, has anyone tired the new Pirelli Angel Scooter tires?
Can someone give a review of them, if they put them on their scooter?
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