Stella 2T highway/performance upgrades
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Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1201
Location: Staten Island, NY
Thu Nov 21, 2019 5:53 pm quote
charlieman22 wrote:
Suggestion on silent blocks.
Heat is your friend.
I am endlessly knocked out by just how much expansion you get when warming the case.
Since that area is thick - heat area and let it soak in a bit - spread - then heat again - inside and out - as evenly as possible.
Let your silent blocks stay cool in garage - grease them up - they should pull right in.

Cases are the envy of all.
Look great.
Mr. Charlieman.. you are correct. Heating the case at the silent block made installation of a new silent block the easiest thing. It slid in with minimal torque from my threaded rod and nut tool. I installed the large side silent block. I also heated the case around the smaller side improperly installed silent block and pulled it out with very little effort. This is where I discovered the problem with the installation of that side (aside from not heating the cases). This chinese silent block had a rubber nipple left over from forming which I did not notice before installing. But i'm sure removing it would have prevented that issue. I do need to trash this small side silent block as the metal tube the rubber wraps around broke free from the rubber and slides around too easily, also with a tear in the rubber from trying to force the installation too much. So I'll be ordering a new set of silent blocks and will use the one side needed and keep the unused side as spare if ever needed again.

Also my cases won't be the envy of everyone soon as they get dirty fast just from installing parts on them. Oily fingerprints all over them!

So I think Jonathan Gick has convinced me to shut up and shell out for the variable ignition now. I've already spent a ton on this bike, mine as well just finish it out now so I can be done with big ticket items on this now and move on. I'm gonna just go with the DC vape kit and try to run the H4 bulbs off DC.

EDIT: SIP Vape DC variable ignition ordered. Just realized this now means I am ditching auto start motor because the vape flywheel does not have auto start teeth.

IMG_20191121_203353.jpg
this was the culprit preventing straight installation.

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that sucker caused me some grief when installing.

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large side silent block went in like a slipper with some heat.

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removed the offending side. awaiting replacement silent block set to replace the damaged new one that I just pulled out.

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oily fingerprints. no longer shiny clean cases!



Last edited by swiss1939 on Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1856

Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:09 pm quote
swiss1939 wrote:
sdjohn wrote:
if you are talking the stock headlight bulb holder, incandescent bulbs don't care if you run AC or DC to them.
I switched to halogen fixture a while ago. not sure if H4 bulbs can run on DC or if there is a LED H4 bulb that doesn't have a giant cooling fin on the back that would fit into the headset.
There are LEDs with H4 bases that donít have that cooling fin (you mean cooling fan?) on the back of it, but they arenít going to be nearly as bright as the ones that do.
Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1201
Location: Staten Island, NY
Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:53 pm quote
whodatschrome wrote:
swiss1939 wrote:
sdjohn wrote:
if you are talking the stock headlight bulb holder, incandescent bulbs don't care if you run AC or DC to them.
I switched to halogen fixture a while ago. not sure if H4 bulbs can run on DC or if there is a LED H4 bulb that doesn't have a giant cooling fin on the back that would fit into the headset.
There are LEDs with H4 bases that donít have that cooling fin (you mean cooling fan?) on the back of it, but they arenít going to be nearly as bright as the ones that do.
I'm gonna try sticking with existing H4 halogen bulbs with the DC ignition system.
Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1201
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sun Nov 24, 2019 2:24 pm quote
Kit is in the mail tomorrow morning headed back here for rebuild!

Gickspeed did a lot of work on the boost port on the cylinder and piston. also opened up the inner transfer areas of the piston.

I'll need to match the case to the new boost port.

Photos from Jonathan Gick.

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1st over done.

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opened up the boost port.

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matched the piston boost port to the cylinder porting.

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original piston internal transfer ports.

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widened internal transfer ports on piston.

Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1580
Location: London UK
Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:09 pm quote
All looks very nicely done. We now need to know how far up the boost port has been moved. I don't think this will be a big issue with your lower gearing but need to check.

What piston is that? Probably just the photo but the rings look like 1.5mm.
Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1201
Location: Staten Island, NY
Mon Nov 25, 2019 6:36 am quote
I don't think he's moved it up, but just widened it. I'll have to compare it to the damaged stock piston when it arrives. I never took measurements of the boost port stock.
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Mon Nov 25, 2019 7:54 pm quote
Think something lost in translation?

Piston front hole has been made wider. Swiss refereed to it as the boost port - as it feeds the boost port - but cylinder was not changed - only piston.

Work looks very nice.
Caught up and saw silent blocks stopped fighting you.

Gonna be fun to assemble.
Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1201
Location: Staten Island, NY
Mon Nov 25, 2019 8:07 pm quote
cylinder boost port was made wider by Gick. It's in the second photo of my last post with photos. He also widened the top piston port that feeds into the boost port. That is what I meant. Both were widened. Piston port was not raised as far as I know. I will check it when it arrives.
Ossessionato
'09 250 GTSie '75 Rally 200 '79 P200 '09 Stella 221
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Mon Nov 25, 2019 8:12 pm quote
Jonathon does really good work. He's extremely particular, enthusiastic, communicates very well and has worked on my stuff for a while. He rebuilt my P200 w/Polini 210, crank from Al, Vespatronic, BGM Super Strong, Vortex and Big Box Sport. He's a very smart guy with a vast knowledge with vintage bikes. He's the only one who touches my bikes. Lastly, he's a really good person. Rest assured your cylinder was in good hands
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Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:16 pm quote
Just to clarify - my post was meant to clarify Swiss's comment for Jack.
Piston rather than cylinder was what he was referring to.
Cylinder ports unchanged.
Work looks fantastic - inspired me to polish my exhaust port!
Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1201
Location: Staten Island, NY
Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:12 pm quote
Willie B wrote:
Jonathon does really good work. He's extremely particular, enthusiastic, communicates very well and has worked on my stuff for a while. He rebuilt my P200 w/Polini 210, crank from Al, Vespatronic, BGM Super Strong, Vortex and Big Box Sport. He's a very smart guy with a vast knowledge with vintage bikes. He's the only one who touches my bikes. Lastly, he's a really good person. Rest assured your cylinder was in good hands
Yes that was my experience with this work as well. He was very helpful with advice and sent tons of photos of progress which I was not expecting.

I wish his shop was closer to my area!
Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1201
Location: Staten Island, NY
Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:17 pm quote
charlieman22 wrote:
Just to clarify - my post was meant to clarify Swiss's comment for Jack.
Piston rather than cylinder was what he was referring to.
Cylinder ports unchanged.
Work looks fantastic - inspired me to polish my exhaust port!
no problem!

Yes his work definitely taught me more additional porting work that we have not discussed on this thread yet. boost port widening helps cool the piston and provide more power. Exhaust port polishing I did not realize would help out. He also suggested I get my exhaust ceramic coated which helps get every little bit of power out of the tuned engine. Had no idea until he suggested it. His talk about variable ignition also got me to buy it now instead of wait. Although it didnt take much arm twisting.

I may try to find a place around here to ceramic coat the exhaust once I get this thing running stable and safe again.
Ossessionato
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Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:51 pm quote
All of my pipes are ceramic coated. The Ducati dealer turned me on to Indy Powder Coat years ago. There's another business called Jet Hot who's done several sets of headers for cars for me. Both do a fantastic job. Indy Powder coat does all of Vance and Hines stuff, thus are always running semi black, thus turn around time isn't too bad
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1580
Location: London UK
Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:49 pm quote
The boost port has been made bigger in the piston and in the cylinder. Can see that in the pictures. Hopefully not moved higher in the cylinder, or if it has not too much. Although this does add to max power its not the kind of thing that is done for touring or commuting.

Keeping "stable and safe again" as the plan, I wouldn't try variable timing or ceramic coating until a few thousand miles of totally reliable riding have been done.

I have a concern those piston rings are not 1.0mm they look too fat. Exhaust port is 68%.

CM when do we get to see your shiny exhaust port? Or is it still too tiny to show?
Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
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Location: Staten Island, NY
Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:23 am quote
The rings are 1.2mm trapezoid. Pretty positive we discussed them prior to going wider and you were happy with them being able to handle the 68% width.
Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1201
Location: Staten Island, NY
Tue Nov 26, 2019 9:08 am quote
Jack221 wrote:
Keeping "stable and safe again" as the plan, I wouldn't try variable timing or ceramic coating until a few thousand miles of totally reliable riding have been done.
My thoughts exactly. I was planning on getting jetting and temps sorted out with stock ignition and making sure I can ride it to work for at least a month before I am comfortable with the jetting and setup. At that point of knowing the baseline safe jetting, I will install the variable ignition and narrow that down. The ceramic coated exhaust I had not heard of until Gick suggested it and do not see the need to do that in the near future. I feel like this engine will be more than enough for my needs. Ceramic coating an exhaust seems more like a fine tuning racing purpose when every little bit of extra HP matters.
Ossessionato
'09 250 GTSie '75 Rally 200 '79 P200 '09 Stella 221
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Tue Nov 26, 2019 4:57 pm quote
Ceramic coating will keep your motor running cooler because the coating reduces heat soak of the exhaust components which lowers cylinder and head temperatures, plus it keeps your exhaust from rotting away due to the elements and moisture within the exhaust. I have a ceramic coated Big Box on one of my Ps that looks as good as it did when I installed it. The finish doesn't burn off, thus no discoloration or rust. Considering heat being the death of a 2 stroke motor, ceramic coating makes perfect sense
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Tue Nov 26, 2019 7:19 pm quote
Momentary highjack (thanks Swiss)
Quote:
CM when do we get to see your shiny exhaust port? Or is it still too tiny to show?
Don't worry - exhaust port looks like the co-star of a porno if it were titled "Fill Bill" - on day 7 of a 7 day shoot.

Stuck sorting out some inlet to crank interface that has me temporarily on hold in mean time - mighta gone a bit too snug.
More to follow on my thread.

Back to present - more careful look at your cylinder - interesting that the boost port appears to be aimed right up to the roof of the cylinder head - you can see straight through it in the cylinder photo.

The Polini iron cyl has the boost port roof aimed to fire across and up - so fluids passing through it would strike high on the opposite cyl wall near the top - rather than directly at the head as it appears to to be on your Malossi.
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Tue Nov 26, 2019 8:36 pm quote
The ceramic isn't so much fine tuning more of a way to protect the metal like paint or chrome but with added properties. Just had a box done for $75.00. Notice ceramic is breaking down on an older box with 4,000 miles so it appears to have some life span.
Ossessionato
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Tue Nov 26, 2019 9:39 pm quote
hibbert wrote:
The ceramic isn't so much fine tuning more of a way to protect the metal like paint or chrome but with added properties. Just had a box done for $75.00. Notice ceramic is breaking down on an older box with 4,000 miles so it appears to have some life span.
$75 for a ceramic coat on a P muffler? Don't think so. Maybe powder coat or someone did you an expensive high temp paint spray. Ceramic coating is a pretty lengthy process. The part has to be baked at high temperature to remove any oils or contaminants, it's then media blasted, sprayed and baked at any extremely high temperature, and then goes through a lengthy curing process. As I recall the spray is some sort of small palletized metal with a base property of aluminum which acts to insulate the metal on the pipe allowing the exhaust gasses to exit the pipe more efficiently, which reduces the temperature of the structure of the pipe and engine. I forgot to mention that pipes are coated on both exterior and internal surfaces. Also, it was originally created to heat treat parts in turbine engines. The guy at Indy Powder Coat gave me $75 tour of their facility. I was amazed
Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1201
Location: Staten Island, NY
Wed Nov 27, 2019 5:30 am quote
Love the discussion on ceramic coating. I still think this is something to hold off on as its not crucial to the performance of the bike as is. But anything that helps reduce engine temps I am all for!

Cylinder kit out for delivery today. I plan on spending thanksgiving avoiding everyone and hopefully rebuilding the engine! Unless I am held up by missing parts. Before the rebuild, I need to grind out the case to match Gick's boost porting work.
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
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Location: London UK
Wed Nov 27, 2019 5:37 am quote
swiss1939 wrote:
The rings are 1.2mm trapezoid. Pretty positive we discussed them prior to going wider and you were happy with them being able to handle the 68% width.
They looked like 1.5mm in the picture. If they are 1.2mm this is ok. Phew.
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
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Wed Nov 27, 2019 5:41 am quote
Willie B wrote:
Ceramic coating will keep your motor running cooler because the coating reduces heat soak of the exhaust components which lowers cylinder and head temperatures, plus it keeps your exhaust from rotting away due to the elements and moisture within the exhaust. I have a ceramic coated Big Box on one of my Ps that looks as good as it did when I installed it. The finish doesn't burn off, thus no discoloration or rust. Considering heat being the death of a 2 stroke motor, ceramic coating makes perfect sense
Yes, on a 4 stroke this is exactly correct. On a 2 stoke the engine will run slightly hotter and the power band will be a little peakier. If your jetting is good, then nothing to worry about and a little more speed too.
Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
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Location: Staten Island, NY
Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:18 am quote
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/piston+rings+malossi+kdn5+_m351541240

Please explain why the extra 0.3mm thickness would be bad with a 68% width exhaust port? Your concern has me lost and interested why this would be bad. I would assume thicker would be better able to handle wider port with less flex and chance of breaking.
Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1201
Location: Staten Island, NY
Wed Nov 27, 2019 7:28 pm quote
Cylinder received from Gickspeed tonight. A bit of dremel work left to do in order to match the case and gasket to wider boost port on the cylinder.

Boost port openings inside the cylinder were not raised. they were just opened up for smoother flow internally, along the face flush with gasket/case and the larger opening at the base of the cylinder that feeds from case into bore below piston. Although one of the smaller boost port ends that opens above the piston looks like the bore took a chunk out of it. It was sharper when received. I rounded it out and smoothed it with hand file.

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what needs to be removed from gasket and case eventually.

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wider straighter internal passage.

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I smoothed this bite out where it dips. it was sharp edged like the rebore bit off too much at that thin spot.

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polished the opened up internal ports.

IMG_20191127_210851.jpg

IMG_20191127_210810.jpg

IMG_20191127_210830.jpg

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Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:36 pm quote
Swiss - thanks for taking the time to shoot some pics.
Boost port appears to be quite opened up - didn't catch that it was done in the channel as well.

General question:
What grit is best for honing our iron cylinders?
This looks to be 120 or 80?

Thoughts?
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
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Posts: 1580
Location: London UK
Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:48 pm quote
Boost port looks fine. Will just make it go better. Raising it is a different game for other reasons. Glad its not moved.

1.2mm rings will be ok. 1.5mm would have probably been just about ok. 2.0mm rings would need to be replaced every weekend. The thicker they are the stiffer they are, this causes them to bow into the port more and rub harder. This results in flats to be worn on the shoulders and a dramatic loss of compression in a very short time. Learning by trial and error gets expensive.

Guess you'll have your turkey cold later after a day in the garage.
Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1201
Location: Staten Island, NY
Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:07 am quote
charlieman22 wrote:
Swiss - thanks for taking the time to shoot some pics.
Boost port appears to be quite opened up - didn't catch that it was done in the channel as well.

General question:
What grit is best for honing our iron cylinders?
This looks to be 120 or 80?

Thoughts?
No clue. Gick honed it.

I used this when I did it myself on first install prior to seize.
https://www.harborfreight.com/4-in-engine-cylinder-hone-63641.html

Jack, I normally spend it at friends. Family is all too far away to travel for just 1 day. This year I opted out of dealing with friends family and the awkward conversations of unrequested life advice or political talk contrary to my beliefs in favor of a well needed day in the garage. Fully embraced the avoidance of the days festivities by picking up a rack of ribs to cook instead of turkey. ha!
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Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:38 am quote
Sounds like a solid thanksgiving day.
Enjoy!
Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1201
Location: Staten Island, NY
Thu Nov 28, 2019 12:22 pm quote
Just finished prepping the cases and gasket to match new cylinder work and am starting the assembly now.

there was plenty of space to dremel out the boost port in the cases, yet even with so much space, there must have been an air bubble in the aluminum because I broke through into a tiny open space in one spot when grinding the case to match. I just prepped it for jb weld steelstik, covered it up, waited the hour for it to set and ground it smooth with dremel again. good to go!

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gasket ground out.

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material to remove

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IMG_20191128_115210.jpg

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washed and ready to go

Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1201
Location: Staten Island, NY
Fri Nov 29, 2019 4:48 pm quote
I'm in holding pattern waiting for some seals and a replacement large crankshaft bearing. So far I got the large side rear drive shaft bearing in, but realized the SIP bearing set I ordered months ago included the wrong oil seal for that bearing. It came with the internal oil seal instead of the external oil seal required by LML cases. I also got the christmas tree bearing back in and ready to go.

Full disclosure since this thread has documented many of my stupid mistakes. I am a little embarrassed to share this but I feel I should include all my stupid mistakes for others to either laugh at or learn from.

I had been watching the scooter techniques engine rebuild videos over the past few months just checking out different parts of the videos to feel a little more comfortable with different aspects of the job. My mistake comes from mis-remembering a trick "sausage"showed in the video. In the video, when installing the large side bigger crankshaft bearing into case, he details both the rubber and the metal oil seal installation. When doing the metal oil seal installation he puts red loctite on it to make sure it doesn't come loose. I misremembered that tip as going on the large bearing. This didn't make sense to me for two reasons, first being the bearing has to pass two grooves for the seal and the circlip and I rightly assumed the loctite would scrape off and pile up in those spaces, second being there is a circlip that holds it in place so I didn't know why the loctite would be needed... but sausage couldn't be wrong.. so I did it. Needless to say, I obviously remembered the tip in video wrong (confirmed after rewatching it again last night) and the bearing went in slightly crooked and got stuck a quarter of the way in. Soft taps working up to harder taps and it wouldn't budge so I listened to my inner voice and stopped. Heated cases up again and knocked it out. Spent an hour or so cleaning the red loctite out of the two grooves and off the inner surface of the case to prep for the next attempt. At that point, I needed to buy the missing oil seal for drive shaft, so I called it a day and went in to order the parts. I got another large crankshaft bearing since it was not as tight and smooth as when package was opened after tapping at it for 10 minutes when it got stuck.

That is cleaned up and will try again with a fresh bearing next week when it arrives.

Like I said, I got the rear large side drive shaft bearing in along with the christmas tree bearing. I realized something after dealing with the drive shaft bearing is that the cases were cooling off rapidly after using the blowtorch on them to the point that I had to keep reheating the case to get the bearing further in. I froze the bearing and torched the case but the case kept cooling off too fast. What I know now is that I should bring the cases into my apartment for a day first so the cases are 75-80 degrees F prior to torching, instead of 35 degrees F. The cases were heating up locally for the bearing to get in but not all the way since overall cases were cold as F***, the locally heated area just cooled off too fast.

I went back out there tonight briefly to try installing more bearings and stopped at the small side gearbox bearing. It wouldn't go in straight and kept having to tap it out because the case would cool off too fast. This is where I decided I needed to bring the cases in for a day to warm up.

I also have a question about correct installation of that gearbox bearing as I can't remember from when I removed it. Does that small side gearbox bearing go in with the flat side facing outward towards gearbox or with the round side out? I believe the flat side goes out so that it can sit flush with the flat edge in the case.

IMG_20191129_191600.jpg
flat side out towards gearbox?

IMG_20191129_191605.jpg
flat side

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Fri Nov 29, 2019 5:23 pm quote
wow swiss that porting is interesting looks like you did a good job matching!
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Fri Nov 29, 2019 6:55 pm quote
Bearings can be frustrating - and putting them in when itís cold out can be next to impossible.

Do you have a crank shaft puller?
Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
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Fri Nov 29, 2019 7:26 pm quote
I do have the crankshaft puller, case splitter, bearing extractor and a few random punches plus some homemade tools using steel tubes and threaded rods for punches and extractors.
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Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:05 pm quote
ok - then here is a suggestion if you are struggling with inserting bearings directly in cases.
(editors note: I am translating from experience with VBB - which has matching large bearings on both sides).
Instead - pu bearings on to crank first - then pull in to cases.
It's how the manual shows it - so it's legit.
Pulling can have a smoothing effect.

Here's how:
- Take cases and bearings inside. (large bearing and small side sleeve) Want them warm.
- Leave crank in garage- want it cold
- In am - warm your large bearing and bearing sleeve to 200 degrees in the oven.
- While they are warming up - set up a jig for your crank. You are going to want it supported by the inside of the web. You can use a piece of steel if you have a scrap - clamped to your bench and hanging out off the edge. The idea is to have that support going right thought the center of the crank - so the web sits on it and is solid.
You are going to worry the crank will fall off - but will realize that it is well supported and not going anywhere.
- Crank should have the clutch side stub facing up to the ceiling. Nice and cold. - Take your large bearing from the oven and out to the garage. This is where it gets nice. When you go to put it on the crank - it is going to basically just drop right on. If it doesn't one of those tubes you have and half a tap will allow the bearing to drop on. It is going to make a wonderful sound - flat metal to flat metal - as it falls in to place. You will know immediately it is on 100%.
- do same with other side if you have not already put that inner bearing race on to the crank already.

Now the crank has the large bearing perfectly seated. Leave it in your cold ass garage - you will want the whole assembly cold.

You then have two options.
1. Get a can of computer dust spray - flip it upside down - and spray that bearing. (see video below) You can flash freeze it on the spot.
2. Save $9.00 and just leave the assembly for long enough to let it all get cold again.

Then - warm your cases in oven - same 200 - fully warms them through.
Put large side in your engine stand - set it facing towards the ceiling - drop your crank in - and pull it with the puller. Make sure to oil up the bearing and race first.

I'm sure there is nothing above that is not new to you - you watch plenty of youtube - but I think you will find that pulling the bearing in - rather then hammering it in - will be smooth and precise.

Here are a couple of videos. The flash freeze guy is a bit hacky - but that stuff works. Make sure to hit the bearing with a bit of WD40 after to ensure all moisture is pulled away.

Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
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Location: Staten Island, NY
Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:51 pm quote
Stella Rear Hub oil seal
I got my big box of remaining parts for this including missing seals and the LML Excel T5 headset parts that will eventually go on this in another thread about that when I come to it.

I put the fly side bearings in after some work and a few times knocking the bearings back out to start again. I've learned its a pain in the ass to get them in straight and the punch tools designed for them would be helpful. I had one for the rear gearbox bearing but used it on something else reversed and bloomed the milled head out so the bearing wouldn't fit on it. My bad.

Regardless, I put the rear hub oil seal in and immediately noticed the inner edge of the seal does not come down to same diameter as the bearing inner. This made me question if I had ordered the right diameter oil seal. I just ordered the oil seal based on the part number in the stella parts manual. SIP page for that item does not list the LML as compatible so this got me worried. But after triple checking the oil seal size listed on scooter west and a few other sites, plus going back to my photos of my original oil seal in the rear hub. I am confident this is the correct oil seal. 47x30x6. But even with that, I am wondering if anyone knows how this oil seal actually seals on the inner circumference because it does not come into contact with the hub or bearing. I'm thinking this is not actually an oil seal in this usage, but just a dust cover because the rear hub bearing is a sealed bearing, so no oil is getting passed the bearing when the hub is properly installed.

Any thoughts?

I am now slowly reassembling and being extra cautious to prevent any stupid mistakes that could damage the cases. Better to swallow my pride and do it 3x slower now than destroy something.

IMG_20191203_163915.jpg
new oil seal

IMG_20191203_163947.jpg
new oil seal. you can see 30 47 6 printed on it to signify the dimensions.

IMG_20190519_200609.jpg
the original LML rear drive oil seal prior to removal. same 47 30 6 dimensions printed on it. and you can see it still has the same gap as the new one.

Ossessionato
1 Empty Garage Space, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 4034
Location: San Diego, CA
Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:20 pm quote
it seals on the hub surface once you install it.
Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1201
Location: Staten Island, NY
Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:35 pm quote
does anyone have a spare tool that I could borrow or buy off them? Crankshaft race tool.

https://sip-scootershop.com/en/products/chuck+sip+bearing+ring_31155760

Heated up the race and dropped it on an ice cold crank and it went on slightly crooked and didnt go all the way down. Need to tap it on or knock it off now.

Nothing going smooth on this F'n rebuild. ha!

All these videos I watch make it seem relatively straightforward yet these bearings are kicking my butt!
Ossessionato
1 Empty Garage Space, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 4034
Location: San Diego, CA
Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:14 pm quote
scooter mercato usually carries that tool, you don't need to order from SIP
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7410
Location: seattle/athens
Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:25 pm quote
humbling
Vespas are excellent for building your character.
You will puff up so proudly when you are 90% there, tuff stuff done perfectly and KNOW you have all this sh*t whipped real good!

Then suddenly when you are all happy, a simple 5 minute thing or two gets dangerously BORKED all out of control!

NOW you learn who's REALLY the boss, and if now you are of at least minimally good character, you must humbly keep on trying til you get it PERFECT as you can.
OK, it's true, maybe two or three days or weeks or more later, ask me how I know.

PS Get some thick gloves and get involved, don't just drop it on next time. You have some seconds to get it right if you're ready enough. Disregard if you already did this, lot of ways to go wrong. Have a piece of plastic pipe & light mallet handy to smack it home safely maybe, while supporting the web.
Scooting the Ozarks is a scooter rally held in Eureka Springs, Arkansas offering riders scenic twisty rides, poker run, and more.   Vespa Wasp Pin Badges   AF1 Racing Vespa Austin
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