Stella 2T highway/performance upgrades
Post Reply    Forum -> Not-So-Modern Previous123...222324...262728Next
Author Message
Molto Verboso
Honda elite
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 1036
Location: California
Sat May 23, 2020 11:10 am quote
pull the clutch lever all the way and kick the scoot, clutch should spin/slip freely

Do that and slowly release the clutch lever to see where things happen. I do it by feel not putting it in gear just feeling where the clutch spins free with kick start and where it begins to stick and fully locked.

In your photo is where my clutch lever is just beginning to slip the clutch before that nothing is happening that I am able to detect however there could be contact with pressure plate and push rod
Ossessionato
1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2179
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sat May 23, 2020 3:05 pm quote
I checked again with the kickstart like how you suggest. It starts rotating freely with clutch lever pulled in slightly less than my rolling test. Kickstart is disengaged from clutch with the lever pulled in 19.2mm measured. My push in gear version of the same test disengaged clutch from gearing at 22.4mm of the lever pulled in.

With the kickstart test, I noticed it would start to slip and rotate at slightly less than the 19.2mm probably about 1-2mm less of the lever pulled in, but was a bit grippy. At 19.2mm lever pulled in is where it really rotates freely.

So im not sure what this test proves. I guess it means my cable is too loose? But I am not sure where the push rod starts rubbing on the pressure plate to get it closer to what I was normally used to, which was 2mm of lever pull before the clutch arm encountered pressure.

IMG_20200523_140605.jpg
in gear, push test clutch rotates freely at this point.

IMG_20200523_184556.jpg
in neutral, kickstarting clutch rotates freely at this point.

Ossessionato
1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2179
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sat May 23, 2020 3:13 pm quote
qascooter wrote:
I've shied away from using the third hand tool because of this very issue. I put a spacer after the clutch arm, from the tips and tricks thread, and I use a certain length of wood and stuff it in between the frame and clutch arm to make the adjusting easier. I stole it from here: http://modernvespa.com/forum/post1955244#1955244

But then I made it even easier by installing a set of these clutch and brake levers: http://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Levers/SPORTLEVER This makes the lower adjustment not have to be so exact and I can fine tune it with a flick of my thumb to dial it in. Voodoo turned me on to these little beauties...

Again, you got this!
Thanks for the tip on outer sleeve. Too late for this cable as I already cut the inner short after tightening this down. I did purchase the new lever which hopefully makes the range of motion feel more natural instead of loose. My clutch lever cable nipple hole is also worn out wider which adds an extra 2mm of wasted range of motion so maybe the combination of a non-worn out lever with the adjuster built into the lever will work out.

But it also appears I may have just overcompensated in the reverse this time by making it too loose. I just don't want to get too tight and grind that push rod again.

Also CM22, thanks for the tips!
Molto Verboso
Honda elite
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 1036
Location: California
Sat May 23, 2020 3:23 pm quote
if I am interpreting your response correctly seems you could loosen cable more.

If you are in full slip at 50% of lever pull seems too tight for me. I want to be at full slip at 7/8 pull and that last 1/8 of pull is just more into the clutch. How does the release feel? Some of this is personal taste.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2179
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sat May 23, 2020 4:37 pm quote
Too tight? That seems really loose to me. With the original clutch it would start engaging the clutch at only 2mm of lever movement and fully engaged at around 25% of lever movement.
Molto Verboso
Honda elite
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 1036
Location: California
Sat May 23, 2020 4:50 pm quote
you'll need to ride it and get a feel for it but if you are at 100% slip at 50% of lever pull seems like you can slacken the cable a little, no? It's taking me some getting used to.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2179
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sun May 24, 2020 9:32 am quote
Working on jetting getting closer but still needs some work. I'll mention that in separate post after this to keep topics separate from each other.

Stalling while idle problem: found more information today as I noticed a recurring pattern.

I'll come to a red light and idle in neutral fine the whole time stopped. When idling in neutral, the tickover is slow and steady. As soon as I shift into 1st gear, but keep the clutch disengaged with full lever pull, the idle immediately shifts from strong to weak with a different tick over pattern which sometimes will stall very quickly, other times will putter out slowly over 20-60 seconds. The tickover when idling in 1st gear with clutch disengaged gets faster but weaker until it dies. It is very minor difference but noticeable when you are riding it. This means when I come to red light I need to get it in neutral and keep it in neutral until the car in front of me pulls away enough that I can take off with no hesitation in first without gas.

I took a video in the beach parking lot to give a sense of what it is doing. The video it doesn't actually stall but you can hear every time I shift out of neutral and into 1st while holding the clutch lever in it gets weak and irregular like it wants to stall.

I'm not sure if this is a clutch adjustment issue or a jetting issue, but I am inclined to think this is a clutch adjustment issue because it is present across all my jetting changes I have made today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNgLaapdFvs
Ossessionato
1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2179
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sun May 24, 2020 9:47 am quote
As far as jetting, I started the day at 50/120 idle 120/be3/132MJ and went to 52/140 idle jet and kept it at 132 MJ. Plug looked closer to correct with start of chocolate color but still rich. Since its all in the first half or so of throttle, I felt it was the idle jet too rich so I went to 55/160 idle and went back up a bit on MJ to 120/be3/140MJ to confirm it was overly rich/boggy again. This felt boggy for the first 1/4 to 1/2 throttle but clears up high RPM and takes off. Plug was black and super rich. So going off of the idea that in 2nd gear it should rev out cleanly throughout, and it wasn't, I left the idle at 55/160 cause temps were dropping at idle fast, and instead went down the next MJ size to 120/be3/138MJ. This felt better but still boggy in first 1/4-1/3 throttle, would clear up and race mid RPM but at max rpm felt boggy and weak. The plug on this one looks lean. This makes me think my MJ needs to go up a decent amount and my idle jet is still too rich causing the confusion on reading the MJ.

Temps at the last run of 55/160 with 120/be3/138MJ on city streets cruising at around 45-55mph would go up around 275-300F but would come down relatively quick with idling or letting off the throttle. This is another reason I think I need to maybe try a much higher MJ and go leaner on the idle. I'm thinking of going to 48/140 idle and 120/be3/145MJ. Another reason I think the idle may still be too rich is when I adjust the air mix screw with tickover set to 2500 rpm, I cannot get engine to die by completely closing the air mix screw to 0 turns out (fully turned in).

Any thoughts based on plug photos? Photos all same plug after approx 5-6 miles city driving mixed rpm no long periods of WOT.

My impression from various symptoms is that my idle is still rich and MJ is weak, because it starts boggy, clears up around 3-4000 rpm and half throttle, then feels boggy and weak again up top at max rpm/wot. Can't kill the engine by completely closing the air mix screw, and temps go up close to 300 or so with only mid rpm cruising 45-55mph but come back down fast at idle. Plus the plug on most recent jetting (last 2 photos) is gray/white instead of brownish/chocolate.

IMG_20200524_121035.jpg
52/140 idle. 120/be3/132MJ

IMG_20200524_124711.jpg
55/160 idle. 120/be3/140MJ

IMG_20200524_131717.jpg
55/160 idle. 120/be3/138MJ

IMG_20200524_131721.jpg
55/160 idle. 120/be3/138MJ

Jet Eye Master
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2134
Location: London UK
Sun May 24, 2020 11:46 am quote
Clutch. Is too loose. Tighten it a bit and it will be ok. With this clutch it won't ride like stock. you can't sit there holding it in for more than a short time. It all gets hot with tickover gear oil. Learn to ride by always putting in neutral and only into gear when you want to move.

You seem to have forgotten all the jetting rules already. At this stage you are adjusting the main jet. Until this is correct the pilot and mid will be wrong. The pilot jet has little effect on WOT. Find the main jet that splutters at WOT and work down from there. Once the main is set, then move to the pilot. If you try to do it like you did before the result will be the same too.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2179
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sun May 24, 2020 1:48 pm quote
Jack you are correct, I am thinking about too many different symptoms at once and trying to solve everything at the same time. I did find the WOT sputter when I started this again a couple days ago, but that was at be4 and was approx 138MJ. I did not go back after changing the atomizer and reconfirm the wot sputter, but just guestimated it based on 138 being good from the BE4. My bad I do need to compartmentalize these issues better and focus on solving one thing at a time. Clutch/stalling issues, i've put that out of my mind for now as I've figured out how to keep it from stalling by changing my driving pattern as you have suggested, not that I would sit in gear and hold clutch in forever before, but it really needs to go immediately now or stall. Will fix the clutch looseness later and ignore that issue for now.

So I went back and put the largest MJ I have in which is 145MJ. I believe this is sputtering just slightly at WOT, but I need to order a few larger sizes to literally confirm that everything above it is sputtering useless, because it feels on the border of sputter and clean in 2nd gear when it reaches max RPM, but in 3rd or 4th it feels clean at max RPM. I was focusing on trying to make the MJ clean throughout the rev range previously and confusing myself. Now I am ignoring all sputtering until it reaches "max RPM" at WOT. I went down to 142 and it felt strong at that point (albeit a mess everything below that). So my hunch is that somewhere between 142-145MJ is that point I am seeking. I will report back when I receive and test a few higher MJ to actually confirm this is the barrier to sputter or not.

I took some audio of my drive back at 145 MJ. First minute or two are me attempting to reach max RPM with WOT in 2nd gear for you guys to hear what it sounds like. At around 1 min 5 sec to 1 min 25 sec are good examples of 2nd gear WOT until max rpm hit. The rest is me just driving normal in light traffic on city streets. Also got another photo of the plug after that 8-10 miles of 145 MJ.

Audio:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/19i5wHfU5AkwQbJyBR9TI9i8dgxhSKiCC/view?usp=sharing

IMG_20200524_172724.jpg
55/160 120/be3/145MJ

IMG_20200524_172746.jpg
55/160 120/be3/145MJ

Addicted
2007 Stella 150
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 651
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Sun May 24, 2020 2:00 pm quote
Just out of curiosity, what size carburetor are you running? Also what slide do you have or does it have a cutout in the bottom?
Ossessionato
1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2179
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sun May 24, 2020 2:11 pm quote
I am using the 24/24 carb which has a SIP 4.0 slide that has a cutout on the bottom as seen here:



and dimples in the top of the slide as seen here:


This is the carb:
https://sip-scootershop.com/en/products/carburettor+dellortospaco+by_285204t7

The only additional thing I did to this carb is drill the float hole to approx 2.0mm maybe just slightly less. And add the 3mm float bowl spacer, while using the fast flow tap.

Bear in mind that I am on a 60mm crankshaft and you are on a 57mm so my jetting is not going to line up with yours.
bodgemaster
1963 GL, 1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5301
Location: So Cal
Sun May 24, 2020 4:27 pm quote
Swiss: Do you mean engaged or disengaged?

It may be semantics, but think it might help for everyone to get the terminology straight.

When you squeeze the clutch lever, you “disengage” the clutch. At least that’s how I envision it, and how I have always referred to it.

Normally there should only be a few mm of play at the lever before the clutch disengages. Some people like a little more, some people like a little less. If there’s too much play at the lever the clutch won’t fully disengage, and you’ll be dragging the plates with the bike in gear and the clutch lever pulled at idle. And that could definitely affect the idle speed.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2179
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sun May 24, 2020 4:31 pm quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
Swiss: Do you mean engaged or disengaged?

It may be semantics, but think it might help for everyone to get the terminology straight.

When you squeeze the clutch lever, you “disengage” the clutch. At least that’s how I envision it, and how I have always referred to it.

Normally there should only be a few mm of play at the lever before the clutch disengages. Some people like a little more, some people like a little less. If there’s too much play at the lever the clutch won’t fully disengage, and you’ll be dragging the plates with the bike in gear at idle. And that could definitely affect the idle speed.
Yes when I say disengage the clutch, I mean the same thing as you. I apologize if I have said it in reverse at some point in this conversation, but I have meant what you suggest. Clutch "disengages" when it no longer spins with the gearbox.

I also prefer the clutch lever to have very little play before it starts to disengage the clutch, but when I set up this new cosa 2 clutch the first time, I tried to get it to that amount and it just ground down the push rod as it was constantly in contact with the pressure plate. So it appears I may need to get used to the clutch lever being a little loose for my preferences, but currently it is way too loose as it wants to stall when in gear even with the clutch lever pulled fully and disengaging the clutch. But I also need to adjust my thinking about the idling in gear as Jack has mentioned, this new flywheel is probably lighter than the stock flywheel, so its momentum won't hold a strong idle in gear as easily.
Addicted
2007 Stella 150
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 651
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Sun May 24, 2020 4:36 pm quote
swiss1939 wrote:
I am using the 24/24 carb which has a SIP 4.0 slide that has a cutout on the bottom as seen here:



and dimples in the top of the slide as seen here:


This is the carb:
https://sip-scootershop.com/en/products/carburettor+dellortospaco+by_285204t7

The only additional thing I did to this carb is drill the float hole to approx 2.0mm maybe just slightly less. And add the 3mm float bowl spacer, while using the fast flow tap.

Bear in mind that I am on a 60mm crankshaft and you are on a 57mm so my jetting is not going to line up with yours.
I'm just in awe at how much fuel that thing is sucking at wot. I'm at 45/160 - 160/BE3/130 with a 20/20. My AFR meter says I'm really close to 12.8 or richer. I did drill the passage from the fuel bowl to the main jet also.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2179
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sun May 24, 2020 5:03 pm quote
Yeah I don't know... I'm just going based on how it runs. My guess is the port timings plus big exhaust port opening and long stroke equals gas guzzler. I have no hard facts on fuel economy yet but it seems to be draining the tank way faster than before.. like possibly 20-30mpg. But this is no accurate measure currently cause its jetted poorly.
Jet Eye Master
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2134
Location: London UK
Sun May 24, 2020 8:01 pm quote
Still a way to go by the sound of it. Focusing on the main jet. 145 is not good. If the 3mm spacer is causing no starting issues then you should keep it on. Usually this is too much but each set up is different.
If your float bowl drilling is less than 2mm then this is the issue. As yours is reed it needs to be bigger. Should be between 2.1 and 2.5mm. The extra 0.2mm will make all the difference. Seems like it shouldn't matter but you will see.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2179
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sun May 24, 2020 8:05 pm quote
Ok so next on the list is to drill the float hole to closer to 2.5mm then revisit the mj which will hopefully be lower as a result of that.

No starting issues with the 3mm spacer in.. even when it stalls from clutch, it kick starts right away again.
Jet Eye Master
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2134
Location: London UK
Sun May 24, 2020 8:13 pm quote
If you go too far the carb is junk. If you don't go far enough it will seize the engine. 2.5mm is the maximum. I start at 2.1mm (a 2.0 bit over drilled to be loose). If the main jet is still too big, then drill some more. Target is less than 130, ideal around 120.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2179
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sun May 24, 2020 8:27 pm quote
I've got a 2.0 and 2.3mm drill bit. So i will try to work it out slowly from those.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2179
Location: Staten Island, NY
Mon May 25, 2020 6:30 am quote
3mm float spacer is leaking very very slowly overnight when fuel tap left in reserve position. Wet spot on ground below the exhaust stub at base of cylinder and the other side at exhaust tail output.

Looks like it might be finally time for me to order those smaller thickness spacers.

IMG_20200525_103222.jpg

IMG_20200525_103238.jpg

Addicted
2007 Stella 150
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 651
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Mon May 25, 2020 7:10 am quote
swiss1939 wrote:
3mm float spacer is leaking very very slowly overnight when fuel tap left in reserve position. Wet spot on ground below the exhaust stub at base of cylinder and the other side at exhaust tail output.

Looks like it might be finally time for me to order those smaller thickness spacers.
That might clear up some of the low rpm issues also. I'll take some thinner ones if you order them.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2179
Location: Staten Island, NY
Mon May 25, 2020 7:19 am quote
I also discovered something that goes against fmps analysis, at least for my specific jets. Not claiming this is universal. His measurements have the sip jets exactly as labeled. Mine are measuring labeled over 10 sizes larger.

I ordered jet reamer set to come with my clutch nuts so that i could accurately measure the jet sizes in the same way fmp does. I just measured my 145 and 142 mj at drastically smaller openings. The SIP 145 mj i have measures as a 131 mj. The 142 mj measures as a 127 mj.

I'm guessing this means i do not need to drill the float bowl passage any wider because my 145 is truly a 131 and 142 truly 127 mj which is in Jack's target range for the mj.

I'm going to measure all the sizes i have around those to get a list of their true sizes.

My measurement was done by sliding the mj onto the square shaped reamer until it stopped, then take the caliper and measure as close to the outside face of the mj, but measuring the thickness of the reamer on the diagonal of the squared edges to get the thickest point of the reamer instead of the flat edges which are not what are contacting the mj opening.

This is a huge difference in labeling, and if I were using two different brands alternating between these needed numbers it's enough to destroy a cylinder. At minimum it would cause some jetting confusion. I have only sip jets so i have not encountered that problem, but have always wondered why my jet sizes always seem to be way larger than everyone else suggests.

IMG_20200525_110817.jpg

IMG_20200525_110659.jpg



Last edited by swiss1939 on Mon May 25, 2020 7:30 am; edited 1 time in total
Molto Verboso
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 1422
Location: california
Mon May 25, 2020 7:30 am quote
Swiss - based on my experience and some other's here - I am not sure what the priority around keeping any spacer at all is.

Of course removing it will change all your jetting again...
However - no point in trying to jet when it is dripping in to the cases on its own.
You may find you don't need.
Simple short term solution - remove spacer.

Your carb has the 2.0 hole drilled already - which will allow significant increased flow. You could always take that up to 2.3 if you have to - but why not jet in with no spacer as is and see where you are?

-CM
Molto Verboso
Honda elite
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 1036
Location: California
Mon May 25, 2020 7:46 am quote
I am not familiar with the jet reamers. How are they measured? Are they square? A diagonal or corner to corner measurement would be larger than the square and might be why the size measured is too large for the jet size listed? I was also wondering how to measure jets.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2179
Location: Staten Island, NY
Mon May 25, 2020 8:08 am quote
The reamer is square shaped but slowly tapered thickness. So when you slide the jet into it, eventually it gets stuck at a point where the thickness matches the jet opening. But because the reamer is square, the jet is only making contact when it stops at the four corners on the reamer square shape. This is why i measure at the diagonal of the square because that is the true thickness of the hole. If i measured on the flat side of the square then it would be getting a reading slightly smaller than the true opening.

I measured each a bunch of different ways to find the most consistent measurement and this is my list of true sizes based on the way i found to be most consistent and accurate.

With these measurements and the understanding that i believe my float passage is approx 1.9-2.0mm (will measure this again later), i am slightly over or right on the upper range of Jack's suggested range at 133-130mj not by labeled but by measured jet opening. This means if i want to hit his better lower end target of 120 i could try getting the float passage to 2.1-2.2mm.

Cm22, i am not sure I want to make too many drastic variable changes as I'm trying to focus on one thing at a time. If i get rid of the float spacer i believe this means i will need to go higher on mj to compensate, correct? At least the way I understand that change is that removing the float spacer lowers the head pressure which equals less fuel forced through, so to reach the same line of splutter/not splutter with the jet, I would need to go up in jet sizes to match prior to removing the float spacer.

Currently I am at the largest jet size i have so i will wait to do that.

Screenshot_20200525-120324.png

Jet Eye Master
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2134
Location: London UK
Mon May 25, 2020 8:41 am quote
If your spacer is leaking out the exhaust, then it has to be removed. If it is leaking the low rpm will always be bad, economy bad and slow. Take out the spacer and fit 3 gaskets. This will be better but sure to be not too much.

You have to be drilled 2.1mm minimum. If it's 1.9mm it will never work right.

Not sure your Vernier is better than 0.1mm accurate from closed. They measure differential better than small things. Jets probably not exactly what they say but stick with one brand and it will be ok.
Hooked
Joined: 22 Jul 2018
Posts: 107

Mon May 25, 2020 9:31 am quote
What gear box oil are you using? Honda style plates need 10/30 or 10/40 mineral JASO MA2. Motul 3100 10/40 is perfect. Slippage or odd operation is known to be an issue with other types. The key is mineral based.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2179
Location: Staten Island, NY
Mon May 25, 2020 10:55 am quote
I believe i am using appropriate gear oil. Motul transoil expert 10w40.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0022ZFY2A/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_GqbZEb2VNEZBJ
Hooked
Joined: 22 Jul 2018
Posts: 107

Mon May 25, 2020 11:50 am quote
It's probably fine. That's a semi-sythetic oil but much better than trying a synthetic. 100% mineral seems to be the best but I wouldn't sweat it if that's what ya got. Just wanted to point it out in case you were 100% synthetic.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2179
Location: Staten Island, NY
Mon May 25, 2020 11:53 am quote
So it's the opposite of the two stroke oil cause i was under impression that two stroke is best fully synthetic which is what i use. Motul 710.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2179
Location: Staten Island, NY
Mon May 25, 2020 3:29 pm quote
Digital caliper says it's accurate to .001mm but displays in resolution down to .01mm. I'm sure you are correct it's not great at small measurements from closed, but i measure by opening wide then bringing back to closed position so that it's moving large range instead of trying to measure with minor movements. Hopefully that is close enough accuracy for my needs.

I'll measure and drill the float hole slightly wider, switch to three gaskets instead of 3mm spacer and reconfirm the mj size.
Hooked
Joined: 22 Jul 2018
Posts: 107

Mon May 25, 2020 5:11 pm quote
swiss1939 wrote:
So it's the opposite of the two stroke oil cause i was under impression that two stroke is best fully synthetic which is what i use. Motul 710.
Yes, there is something about the material on these plates that work better with mineral. If you are like me you change oil all the time so it's not like you need to worry about it breaking down.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2179
Location: Staten Island, NY
Mon May 25, 2020 5:29 pm quote
Measured the 2.0 mm drill bit used to open up the float passage and it is 1.94mm at the shank end. Its only slightly loose when dropped into the hole so i'd assume its approx 1.95-1.98mm hole currently. I'm gonna go drive around and see if I can find a 2.1 or 2.2mm drill bit tomorrow as I only have the 2.0 i used and a 2.3mm which is a larger jump than I want to try right off the bat. I'm hoping I can get it to 2.15 approx to test before going to 2.3mm bit.

Maybe my digital caliper is off even when zeroed out because even the drill bit is 0.06mm smaller than labeled on the package. I'll have to find another one to compare measurements.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2179
Location: Staten Island, NY
Mon May 25, 2020 6:10 pm quote
Christopher_55934 wrote:
swiss1939 wrote:
3mm float spacer is leaking very very slowly overnight when fuel tap left in reserve position. Wet spot on ground below the exhaust stub at base of cylinder and the other side at exhaust tail output.

Looks like it might be finally time for me to order those smaller thickness spacers.
That might clear up some of the low rpm issues also. I'll take some thinner ones if you order them.
I ordered 1.6mm set to make sure the schematic sime created is correct. When that comes and I confirm the cut is correct dimensions, I'll order a few other sizes and let everyone know what a set cost.
Addicted
2007 Stella 150
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 651
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Mon May 25, 2020 6:19 pm quote
https://www.amazon.com/vermont-gage-steel-black-tolerance/dp/b0038199mi/ref=sr_1_5dchild=1keywords=vermont2bgageqid=1590459376refinements=p_853a24709550112cp_n_feature_eleven_browse-bin3a3622111011rnid=3622110011rps=1s=industrialsr=1-5th=1detail-bullets

You can get pin sets like this to check jets. I bought them when I was working on another scooter. I was able to check my keys and my calipers to see if they were accurate.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2179
Location: Staten Island, NY
Tue May 26, 2020 2:48 pm quote
Moved this stella around today to get the white p125 out to hit it with power wash. Carb has been removed from this and fuel tap is completely closed, but I decided to tilt it all the way to the left with the rear downhill to see if any more fuel would come out the exhaust. Probably another half liter or more of oily fuel came rushing out the exhaust tail pipe! This thing was draining fuel into the exhaust. This explains why my engine is so dirty below the exhaust stub of wet oily fuel! Probably a good thing I caught it now cause all that fuel sloshing around in the exhaust could have caught fire if I had taken it on the highway and gotten it real hot! Then I wouldn't be talking about jetting anymore but would be packing my vespa bags and calling it quits!

That 3mm spacer was no bueno! Waiting on my drill bits from mcmaster tomorrow before I open it up a little more and replace the spacer with a couple gaskets and try again.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2179
Location: Staten Island, NY
Wed May 27, 2020 5:39 am quote
Christopher_55934 wrote:
https://www.amazon.com/vermont-gage-steel-black-tolerance/dp/b0038199mi/ref=sr_1_5dchild=1keywords=vermont2bgageqid=1590459376refinements=p_853a24709550112cp_n_feature_eleven_browse-bin3a3622111011rnid=3622110011rps=1s=industrialsr=1-5th=1detail-bullets

You can get pin sets like this to check jets. I bought them when I was working on another scooter. I was able to check my keys and my calipers to see if they were accurate.
I decided to get a block gauge set to confirm i am measuring accurately.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07HFSS92B/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_W1MZEbDFWYEC6
Molto Verboso
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 1422
Location: california
Wed May 27, 2020 8:41 am quote
Swiss,
Yup - spacer had float level too high.
Just one man's perspective.
Know you have reeds - but...
On my build - no spacer - 2.0 turned out to be plenty of feed.
1.8 was too small.
2.3 added nothing.

So quick to pop off the carb top and pull spacer.
Just a thought - you may find that is all you need?
Drill that carb too big - and it will be a doorstop - as Jack has noted...
Seems like simply removing the spacer to start with would be reasonable.
If you put in a main jet and it splutters - you have enough fuel - and can start walking it down.

Bike will also run much happier now that it is not just driving fuel in to the motor when you are at low RPM as well - meaning keep an eye on your idle jet cuase its now going to be doing its actual job.

-CM
Ossessionato
1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2179
Location: Staten Island, NY
Wed May 27, 2020 9:05 am quote
True CM, I am going to wait to drill the carb till I test out with just 3 gaskets as a spacer. Then if I need to go more I'll go to 2.1 first then test again and up to 2.3 if needed.

I am also going to reset my idle jet back to the initial rich jet just to get it back to known super safe.

Should hopefully have time to test all this out tomorrow. Today is the Space X manned launch!
Team Scooter Trash for Petfinder Foundation   Vespa Wasp Pin Badges   Cool Ass scooter seat cover
Post Reply    Forum -> Not-So-Modern Previous123...222324...262728Next
[ Time: 0.3685s ][ Queries: 27 (0.1629s) ][ Debug on ]