Stella 2T highway/performance upgrades
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Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 150
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1257
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Tue Jun 16, 2020 4:42 pm quote
What did you use for a crankshaft 57 or 60 mm?
Ossessionato
1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2339
Location: Staten Island, NY
Tue Jun 16, 2020 4:49 pm quote
60mm crankshaft Worb5 Flowed Mazzucchelli.

https://sip-scootershop.com/en/products/flowed+crankshaft+serie+pro+_46030000
Molto Verboso
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 1844
Location: california
Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:13 pm quote
Swiss,
Think you have a camera similar to mine for shooting pics inside the cylinder?
If yes - encourage you to post pics of top of piston now - and then after you choose your main jet and run a while.

Would like to see other's do the same.
Not sure what exactly we will learn - but confident it will be something.

Crime you are no longer commuting in to the city!
You'd be famous at the office - not that you aren't already.
-CM
Molto Verboso
Vespa
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 1221
Location: California
Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:29 am quote
Outstanding Swiss1939 was wondering about the crank as well after you mentioned reed valve.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2339
Location: Staten Island, NY
Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:34 am quote
jetting not ready for prime time quite yet
Decided to take the stella onto my quick remote highway connector that is less busy today before doing those dyno bracket tests. 45/160 idle. 120/be3/122 mj.

Soft Seized at 50mph rear wheel locked up and skid for about 200ft.

I was only on the highway for a minute to minute and half total before seized. As soon as I got onto highway up to 55mph in 3rd I saw temps going way over 300 close to 400F and so I tried to bring speeds down slowly around 45mph in 3rd. they were still around 350/375 so I tried up shifting to 4th and that didn't do much, so went back down to third gear and tried to pulse it while creeping slower, then held 3/4 to full throttle to get over to the left lane as the highway splits off to exit ramp on the left. This is when it locked up as I was slowly letting throttle down to slow down at about 45-50mph. I was expecting it so was ready for it, and luckily only one car behind me in the other lane so nothing dangerous happened. Was able to get it in neutral and coast halfway to the end of the exit ramp and get it onto the shoulder. Sat there for 5 min to cool it down then kicked it to see if it would start again. Started up rough cause CHT was still up around 350-375. So I just idled it there till it cooled down around 300F and crept off the exit ramp to the back roads where it started to run more normally again once it cooled down a bit. It idles a little rougher now but I was able to drive home 15 miles after the soft seize.

Temps were definitely heading 400F fast on the highway no matter what I did. Seize point on the temps is around 350-375F.

Got home checked plug and its still rich and brown which tells me the idle is rich and the main is lean cause the main couldn't cool off the cht at those speeds.

I think im not even going to take the head off cause it runs. Not even bother with removing it to clean it up. It does idle a little rougher and weaker when shifting out of neutral into first at stops now but when running its similar to before.

Scope photo shows clearly seized. but its still running. Probably saved it and myself from the worst by recognizing it wasn't right and trying to slow down as much as safely possible on the highway. I even got audio of it for you guys to enjoy! Audio is me getting on the highway, getting up to 3rd gear and keeping it in 3rd gear until about 55 seconds where I shift into 4th to see if I can get the temps to go down, then going back to 3rd at about 1min 16sec to get over to left lane for exit where I slowly roll the gas off to bring temps down slowly and the seize locks up around 1min 35sec.

https://soundcloud.com/sean-simpson-231097141/seize-at-50-w-122mj

Now comes the problem solving of how to get those highway temps down and stable.

IMG_20200617_115241.jpg
15 miles after seize riding mid to low throttle on city streets.

IMG_20200617_115214.jpg

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seize marks

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20200617115055.jpg

Enthusiast
Px125 2009
Joined: 31 May 2020
Posts: 62
Location: UK West Yorkshire
Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:45 am quote
Have you checked for air leak around carb gaskets ?

Sounds alot like one as I mentioned before.

Simple job, I spray electrical contact cleaner around gaskets whilst engine is running. If it dies air leak.

My cylinder is worse than that, still using it whilst I fiddle about, looking at timing and the possibility of a malossi 30mm carb kit.
Once sorted buying the Malossi 177 kit.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2339
Location: Staten Island, NY
Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:25 am quote
I will check that next. And to be honest, I'm not even frustrated anymore. I fully expect these events now. Ha!

I guess a few of us are playing a game of how many seizes does it take to get to the center of knowing wtf you are doing!

hqdefault.jpg

Enthusiast
Px125 2009
Joined: 31 May 2020
Posts: 62
Location: UK West Yorkshire
Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:40 am quote
swiss1939 wrote:
I will check that next. And to be honest, I'm not even frustrated anymore. I fully expect these events now. Ha!

I guess a few of us are playing a game of how many seizes does it take to get to the center of knowing wtf you are doing!
Very true.
As far as I'm concerned it's all part of the hobby, thank f#$k I have a car!!!
😁
Ossessionato
1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2339
Location: Staten Island, NY
Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:49 am quote
Yeah i got a truck but it gets the worst fuel economy city driving which is one of the reasons i wanted a Vespa. Aside from that I'm not commuting to work every day in my truck cause tolls and parking are too much. Can't find street parking in my truck.

This damn Stella is refusing to cooperate as my commuter.
Jet Eye Master
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2504
Location: London UK
Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:00 pm quote
Disappointing. If ever you get in that situation again. Don't go faster to cool it down. When it gets to 400F on an iron cylinder you have already lost, there only one option. Pull in the clutch and stop before you have no choice. There must have been many warning signs. These things don't happen suddenly.

Still looks rich on the plug. 325F is the max you are looking for. If it goes over that pull in the clutch and coast.

How many miles on that cylinder? Doubt it's done any damage but try not to do it again. Get the plug a better colour before trying again. Too rich is just as bad as too lean.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2339
Location: Staten Island, NY
Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:21 pm quote
Yeah the warning sign was the temps continually going up at speed. My thought process was I don't feel safe stopping on the highway so try to slow it down and control it through taking advantage of the throttle position and rpms to get the best oil/gas coverage. Obviously failed at that . Also running through my head was "i know FMP has a trick to rescue this if only I could remember it right now". Hindsight was... pull the choke (which has its own risks at speed when you know a seize is coming at any second).

I honestly think the plug is rich because im pulling the plug and showing you a photo of it when its riding on low throttle with more of an idle mix. cause when I pull the plug and check more closely to a wot run its much leaner looking tip. But what do I know.. I can't seem to figure this jetting thing out even when it makes sense!

380 miles on the re-bore till first seize on this rebore.
Enthusiast
Px125 2009
Joined: 31 May 2020
Posts: 62
Location: UK West Yorkshire
Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:01 pm quote
Your paying too much time on the idle jet, it does practically nothing beyond the progressive circuit.

Tuning an idle jet is about returning to tick over and the transition from idle to a few miles per hour.

Normally you would set mixer screw 2 1/2 turns out from closed. Blip the throttle and see if engine returned to idle without lingering at a higher rev, next you have a test ride to see how the scooter moves forward, that being the transition from idle jet to main jet which is happening I suspect earlier than you think, this being the progressive circuit fed by the idle jet
You then choose an idle jet which gives the performance the engine requires, a balance between tick over and moving forward a little past standing start, the transition is the more important as you can richer or lean out the tick over mix by the mixer adjuster screw.
If you have a carb or have reason to take yours off have a look at when the slide reveals the progressive circuit hole, its drilled in the slide groove, a bit tricky to spot.

The main jet stack is usually always a 160 ac, and a be3 mixer, hence why I suspect an air leak, the be3 has larger holes at the top which means greater atmospheric flow at higher revs, which in turn as a rough guide 1 part atmosphere equals 1 part petrol, so it makes the mix richer the further up the throttle you go.

On your set up the jetting should be 130 as a start, be3, 160 ac and std malossi idle jet.

If you are experiencing a hesitation when you change gears, or perhaps a near stall when moving forward that's either an air leak or blockage in progressive circuit rather than jetting, as said my guess air leak.

If you are using a non factory si carb, remove the rubber grommet on the float bowl vent to carb tray, it's not needed, check underneath of carb at the Choke gallery for excess metal or flashing from mold, file off, then check carb surface for flatness, I lap the ones I use on a flat surface with p120 wet and dry paper and soapy water.

My scooter had been stood over 2 years, went through it before putting it back on road, still missed a bit of gunk in a dry fuel pipe, heat seized at 62mph, happened without warning,, pull in clutch is standard practice, my cylinder is deeply grooved a lot worse than your photos, but still achieved a true 67mph last Saturday!
It's worth keeping barrel and piston to experiment on, it doesn't take that long to swap over whilst engine is in frame, the bloody malossi clips that hold the piston pin in are a right pain mind
Good luck with it.
Jet Eye Master
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2504
Location: London UK
Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:57 pm quote
Pulling the clutch and coasting for a while would have helped. Let it out speed up then coast again.

Scooter wasn't ready for speed runs. 380 miles is sometimes not enough. Iron bores can take a few thousand depending on how tight they were. Also you were getting to 300F in traffic. Something wasn't right.

Are you sure there is no air leak? Carb is unlikely but if there is a leak on the exhaust, it could cause this. The exhaust seal gets really important when tuned. At high rpm it sucks in air.

It's not far away. Keep adjusting and riding and get the miles up.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2339
Location: Staten Island, NY
Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:29 am quote
Two air leak potentials.. check carb box and check exhaust. I'm thinking exhaust is more likely for two reasons. I drilled a hole in the exhaust pipe to mount the egt sensor as instructed by the sensor manufacturer. The sensor is just metal against metal held onto the hole by force of the clamp on it. The other possibility with the exhaust is needing to replace the mounting bolt and nut at the stub point. It torques down close but never fully clicks the wrench. I think the last few threads are stripped right before it gets fully torqued. It holds and is close to torque so i did not think it was a problem. Worth replacing anyways.

I now know pulling clutch at speed is safer than rolling off throttle slowly. My understanding was pulling clutch straight away was more dangerous for seizes because you are going straight to idle circuit which if too lean means seize faster. My thought was less throttle safer than no throttle. Will not make that mistake again.
Enthusiast
Px125 2009
Joined: 31 May 2020
Posts: 62
Location: UK West Yorkshire
Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:26 am quote
swiss1939 wrote:
Two air leak potentials.. check carb box and check exhaust. I'm thinking exhaust is more likely for two reasons. I drilled a hole in the exhaust pipe to mount the egt sensor as instructed by the sensor manufacturer. The sensor is just metal against metal held onto the hole by force of the clamp on it. The other possibility with the exhaust is needing to replace the mounting bolt and nut at the stub point. It torques down close but never fully clicks the wrench. I think the last few threads are stripped right before it gets fully torqued. It holds and is close to torque so i did not think it was a problem. Worth replacing anyways.

I now know pulling clutch at speed is safer than rolling off throttle slowly. My understanding was pulling clutch straight away was more dangerous for seizes because you are going straight to idle circuit which if too lean means seize faster. My thought was less throttle safer than no throttle. Will not make that mistake again.
Carb to carb tray, cant emphasise it too much, exhaust will only drop oil, performance will effectively be slight to worse case no tick over and lumpy running.

Straw on your aerosol of choice spray round base of carb, engine will slow or stop. Tbh it's so common a fault it's worth doing with any carb change and now and again as part of routine maintenance. Also dont over tighten bolts.
I'm in th uk looking at buying from Amazon Global an Acdelco digital torque wrench, a US product, any good?
Ossessionato
1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2339
Location: Staten Island, NY
Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:14 am quote
No clue. I have a harbor freight icon click type torque wrench. Checking the carb for leaks is on the list.
Molto Verboso
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 1844
Location: california
Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:22 am quote
Swiss - just catching up.
Tough one.
Was saying to SoCal the other day - we should buy a second set of rings when we build new - and expect to use the first set just to get it jetted in!

But by the looks - your rings will be fine.
Daren's method of spraying some carb cleaner - or even brake cleaner in a jam - at your seams - like carb to carb box and carb box to cases - when its running - will be instantly telling and allow you to even identify which side and where any leak exists - if thats what's going on.

Then of course - it could always be the timing...
🙂

Keep us posted.
Jet Eye Master
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2504
Location: London UK
Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:22 am quote
Couple of things to check now. If the exhaust is sucking air through the sensor it will probably blow a little. Have a careful feel when ticking over.

Can't remember where your timing is set but in the light of all the discussion on timing, you should check yours. Go with the same as CM and set static to 23. And really check it. Many times.
Molto Verboso
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 1844
Location: california
Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:15 pm quote
Swiss - do yourself a favor.
1. check that you have TDC and 19 well marked - see my post.
2. to ensure you are not experiencing that high heat from too much retard from the vape - rev it on the stand to 6K rpm and shoot it with a timing light to see that it is reading where you expect.

The issue with the Vape is - your idle speed alters the starting point. The curve is so steep that 250RPM can change you a full degree near idle. So worry less about idle - and concentrate more on a mid or high point where you want it to max out.

Choose your max timing that you dont want to advance past - mark the cases - rev it to the the max and make sure your timing doesn't surpass your mark.

My $.02
Ossessionato
1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2339
Location: Staten Island, NY
Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:00 pm quote
Jack221 wrote:
Couple of things to check now. If the exhaust is sucking air through the sensor it will probably blow a little. Have a careful feel when ticking over.

Can't remember where your timing is set but in the light of all the discussion on timing, you should check yours. Go with the same as CM and set static to 23. And really check it. Many times.
What do you mean set static to 23? I am on a variable ignition. Are you suggesting switching variable out to a static ignition again? Probably not gonna happen anytime soon as I no longer have a static ignition available.

I will check the timing as CM and you guys suggest.
Molto Verboso
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 1844
Location: california
Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:22 pm quote
Lemme clarify.
1. air leak most likely culprit as smart guys have flagged it. You are gonna find It through pressure test or spray test.
2. even so - careful with the timing. the read you get at idle is variable depending on your idle SPEED. it can be super misleading.
My suggestion with SIP VAPE variable - decide where you want to be at say 6000 or 7000 RPM. For arguments sake - say 19 at 7K. Then when you use your timing light - ignore idle readings. Instead - rev and hold at your target speed - say 7000 RPM - and have your case marked for your target timing- say 19.

idle timing will then take its place - no matter where you end up setting your idle speed.
Adjustments to idle speed will move that timing - but it doesn't matter.


Bottom line: What will break your motor is what happens from 6KRPM up - so focus on setting timing to hit benchmarks at the high RPM and let idle fall where it may.
Jet Eye Master
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2504
Location: London UK
Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:21 pm quote
Static timing is the zero point of variable timing. To get 19 degrees at 6000 it needs to start at 23. Try it as CM explained.
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 150
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1257
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:38 am quote
I have a timing light that has a two stroke specific setting and I can set a retard or advance number.

I marked my zero point.

Then you can dial in a number and move your plate to match that point. No more measuring with a ruler or tape etc. You are still pointed at your zero point, the timing light does the math, so it always strobes at your zero mark.

I have mine set at something like 24 as the starting point, that is what the plate is set at to start with. Screwed down or bolted down at.

I'm set to an ignition curve that retards to 18 at 6500 rpm. I can dial in 18 and watch my rpm on the timing light and watch the mark move as the rpm goes up. At 6500 rpm my mark is correct at 18. If you have marks and a gun that you can dial in your timing numbers you can verify the accuracy of both to make sure everything is setup correctly.

Last edited by Christopher_55934 on Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:32 am; edited 1 time in total
Ossessionato
1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2339
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:04 am quote
So given the target timing all of you are suggesting, this is what I was originally set at when I started. I am 2 degrees retarded from that right now. I will reset back to 24 at the T mark which is 18 at 6500k, and confirm with the gun. I only have a basic gun so I will have to check manually by marking the cases at 18 degrees and revving it to 6500 to confirm it hits the mark.

And yes to reconfirm I am still checking the air leak I am not ignoring this request from multiple people. I am taking a vacation from stella again for a week as I work on other projects and paid work.
Molto Verboso
Vespa
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 1221
Location: California
Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:13 am quote
could you have a 23/24 mark and a 18 on the flywheel which you can observe move as the RPM change? The TDC mark on the case is stationary.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2339
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:44 am quote
sounds good.
Enthusiast
Px125 2009
Joined: 31 May 2020
Posts: 62
Location: UK West Yorkshire
Sun Jun 21, 2020 10:47 pm quote
This is my rig for carburetor to tray gasket leak tester 🤣
A can of spray, its straw attached and a drinking straw squeezed at the end and bent to a curve.
Works really well to get the spray to the base of carb and stops any spray being drawn in via normal route!
simple sometimes works best 🤪
Dried out carb gasket in picture that was replaced with a home made one from 0.8mm good quality gasket paper.

20200619_153725.jpg

Member
Stella
Joined: 19 Sep 2020
Posts: 20
Location: Staten island
Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:18 pm quote
Want to put a sip road pipe on it. Just plasti dipped it to make it look 2-toned. From Staten Island too

D94F320E-6023-45E0-9EB5-09214D584EEE.jpeg

Ossessionato
1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2339
Location: Staten Island, NY
Wed Oct 21, 2020 6:10 am quote
Nothing happening on this project since June soft seize. I don't have capacity or desire to fiddle with this thing with everything else going on in the world. Life changes and I'll be splitting my time driving/spending more time across country near family down south which seems most important over the past 8 months.

I'm probably gonna throw this scooter in the back of my truck and make a pit stop at Lee Lux's shop in Georgia (That Scooter Thing) to have him take a few hours to jet and time it and fix anything from the soft seize just so I can have this thing running safely and enjoy it. I'll save more vespa tinkering for my p200 if this fog of 2020 ever lifts.
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 150
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1257
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Wed Oct 21, 2020 6:23 am quote
Good to know your still alive.
swiss1939 wrote:
Nothing happening on this project since June soft seize. I don't have capacity or desire to fiddle with this thing with everything else going on in the world. Life changes and I'll be splitting my time driving/spending more time across country near family down south which seems most important over the past 8 months.

I'm probably gonna throw this scooter in the back of my truck and make a pit stop at Lee Lux's shop in Georgia (That Scooter Thing) to have him take a few hours to jet and time it and fix anything from the soft seize just so I can have this thing running safely and enjoy it. I'll save more vespa tinkering for my p200 if this fog of 2020 ever lifts.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2339
Location: Staten Island, NY
Wed Oct 21, 2020 6:30 am quote
Christopher_55934 wrote:
Good to know your still alive.
swiss1939 wrote:
Nothing happening on this project since June soft seize. I don't have capacity or desire to fiddle with this thing with everything else going on in the world. Life changes and I'll be splitting my time driving/spending more time across country near family down south which seems most important over the past 8 months.

I'm probably gonna throw this scooter in the back of my truck and make a pit stop at Lee Lux's shop in Georgia (That Scooter Thing) to have him take a few hours to jet and time it and fix anything from the soft seize just so I can have this thing running safely and enjoy it. I'll save more vespa tinkering for my p200 if this fog of 2020 ever lifts.
Difficult year i'm sure for everyone.. lots of things going on and unfortunately this interest which I love just had to take a back seat. It was only adding to my stress. Seems a lifetime ago the only thing I had to worry about was when I'd be able to get back into garage and work on it!

Glad everyone is still around doing their thing!
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 8014
Location: Victoria, Australia
Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:50 pm quote
swiss1939 wrote:
Difficult year i'm sure for everyone.. lots of things going on and unfortunately this interest which I love just had to take a back seat. It was only adding to my stress. Seems a lifetime ago the only thing I had to worry about was when I'd be able to get back into garage and work on it!

Glad everyone is still around doing their thing!
Good to see you back. All the best with life, and that stuff.
Molto Verboso
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 1844
Location: california
Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:05 pm quote
Swiss!
Good to see you checking in.
In Atl myself now.
Might see Lee - he is just up from Mercato.
Sounds like a savvy plan.
That and dropping that cylinder a hair so you don't have to be at 6000 RPM while driving in traffic.
🙂

Be well!
CM
Ossessionato
1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2339
Location: Staten Island, NY
Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:09 pm quote
CM, I just talked to lee and he said I should try the smart carb! I laughed at that!

Enjoy ATL and hope to catch up on your thread some day when this all settles down.. probably in 6 months or so before I'm able to just veg out on all that I've missed on these great MV threads!
Molto Verboso
79 P200E, 62 Allstate, 2008 Stella
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1819
Location: Florence, OR
Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:46 pm quote
Hang in there Swiss. Crazy times indeed.

The biggest thing is to take care of yourself, then all else will be served as well. And that sounds like a great plan - bring the 150 to Lee and have him dial it in, then you can just ride it like you stole it and focus on the fun of riding, while you're riding.

Take care my friend - all will work out....
Member
Stella
Joined: 19 Sep 2020
Posts: 20
Location: Staten island
Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:43 pm quote
Was thinking of ripping out my Stella motor and shipping it to Lees shop. That kid has made some insane builds. Wish I had a truck Id be taking a road trip to see him.

The only thing keeping me sane through Covid has been riding my scooters on the weekends. Even thinking about learning how to tune but I know Im just going to fuck something up and have to bring it to the shop anyway
Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 2903
Location: Nashville
Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:55 am quote
swiss1939 wrote:
probably in 6 months or so before I'm able to just veg out on all that I've missed on these great MV threads!
It'll take you a few days just to catch up with CMan's build thread!
Ossessionato
1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2339
Location: Staten Island, NY
Wed Nov 04, 2020 10:14 am quote
Ok, Jack cm, cm22, Darren, hibbert... The events of the past day and a half have me so frustrated that i decided to distract from the state of our country by getting back out in the garage to try to fix this jetting and timing one last time before i resort to taking it to Lee in late December early January.

I've just tried spraying the carb with carb cleaner and the carb lid on while throttling and the engine doesn't stall. So I'm going to check timing and reset it to what everyone suggests which i believe was 24 at idle.. so more retarded than currently. Then I'll revisit the main jet and idle jet as needed, which i believe Jack was suggesting mj still too rich causing the overheating at highway speeds. I think this might mean the idle will get richer to compensate.
Molto Verboso
Vespa
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 1221
Location: California
Wed Nov 04, 2020 11:12 am quote
Outstanding Swiss could use a distraction. Don't forget to check the exhaust connection for leak. Did you use sealant there?

If you can focus on just getting 2nd gear to work meaning find the sputter point on the MJ then find where 2nd gear will pull it out of a hole clean with WOT then main is close. Once I figured out how to focus on this (2nd gear WOT) and just how the MJ & WOT works all is needed is 2nd. 3rd and 4th should be same as 2nd just takes a lot longer when you start shifting and you get out of focus.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2339
Location: Staten Island, NY
Wed Nov 04, 2020 1:56 pm quote
tested timing with static light today and it was off. I trusted the physical markings on the vape magnetic drum and stator plate to be accurate and after checking manually today with gun, I believe those marks were in fact about 1-2 degrees off. What I had marked as 24 degrees on the stator based on the T mark on the magnetic drum was what I used to offset my 22 degrees idle at on the stator. So I was most likely at 14-16 degrees timing at 7000 rpm when I seized on highway. My cylinder temps were also very slow to respond when that far advanced, staying around 250-275 F on typical city driving and being slow to respond to throttle actions.

So I've reset the timing to what I am pretty sure is 23 degrees at idle, 19 degrees at 6-7000 rpm. At all rpms, it matches the marks i made on the case and flywheel when just using the degree wheel and piston stopper to find TDC and correct BTDC marks for desired idle and 6-7000 rpm. Ran around for about 10 minutes after doing that and I now notice the cylinder temps are way faster to respond to throttle and get hot at city driving speeds. I was up around 300-325 F just on normal city driving, and when on center stand, hitting the throttle didn't really drop the CHT much, but went up instead of dropping like desired. Also noticed that when idling on center stand it smokes a decent amount, but with throttle there is no smoke. Idling on center stand for 10 minutes equals wet plug. Guessing I should start over again on MJ by going back up around 4-6 sizes and working back down to see where it gets sluggish. Hibbert, in 2nd gear now, it really didnt have any dead spots but takes off.

Exhaust definitely has a leak at both the cylinder stub and at the egt hole I tapped. Can't tell if either one of those are the cause, but just sitting in one spot for months, Ive got a leak on the ground and the engine case below the cylinder is oily. Like I mentioned months ago, I believe that is a result of the exhaust stub/EGT tap hole.
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