Stella 2T highway/performance upgrades
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Addicted
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 680
Location: california
Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:17 pm quote
Awesome - first start.
Often anticlimactic - can feel like you stepped backwards - as completely out of tune.
By the end of next week - will feel like you have the fastest bike on the forum.
:-)

Congrats on pulling off the assembly.
Psyched to see it get tuned in.
Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
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Location: Staten Island, NY
Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:52 pm quote
Lee@thatscooterthing suggested the rattle may be bad wrist bearing so I read up on some posts here (http://modernvespa.com/forum/post1433974) about bad wrist bearings in the crank holding the piston cudgeon pin. I think this may be the metallic rattling sound. I reused the wrist bearing that was already in the crankshaft as it looked fine, and just oiled it with two stroke oil. Think its a good idea to just pull the cylinder off, and replace with new? I believe I already have a new one among all the parts I have waiting for engine rebuild, so I could do that this week. If so, should I be using two stroke oil as lube or actual grease?

This one looks like the one that was already in my crankshaft and re-used:
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/gudgeon+pin+bearing+_90134000
Molto Verboso
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Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:08 pm quote
I don't like the sound of that noise From here that's what piston touching the head or gasket sounds like. Will not end well. Could however just be piston slap due to running so rich, not being run in, cold, a Malossi etc.
With the piston below deck it has to be fine, couldn't possibly be touching anything.

Now you see why I don't ever take cylinder studs out. Re check the torque in a week or so. See if you got away with it.

Setting the carb up while running in an iron cylinder is a challenge. They seize up almost without warning in the first 200 miles.

If LML timing is like Vespa timing its already 18 degrees stock. Check it with a strobe before doing anything.

So jetting now 52/140 AC140 BE4 MJ115 ?

Running so rich is not ideal as the engine won't get up to temperature and running in needs temperature to work.

Edit. Wrist pin was fine before. Not that.
Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
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Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:11 pm quote
Jack221 wrote:
I don't like the sound of that noise From here that's what piston touching the head or gasket sounds like. Will not end well. Could however just be piston slap due to running so rich, not being run in, cold, a Malossi etc.
With the piston below deck it has to be fine, couldn't possibly be touching anything.

Now you see why I don't ever take cylinder studs out. Re check the torque in a week or so. See if you got away with it.

Setting the carb up while running in an iron cylinder is a challenge. They seize up almost without warning in the first 200 miles.

If LML timing is like Vespa timing its already 18 degrees stock. Check it with a strobe before doing anything.

So jetting now 52/140 AC140 BE4 MJ115 ?

Running so rich is not ideal as the engine won't get up to temperature and running in needs temperature to work.
Could be gasket overhang? The gaskets weren't perfect, I just don't see how they could touch the piston. Any suggestions on what to check/do, or just leave it for now?

jetting is currently at 52/140 AC140 BE4 MJ116.

LML timing is 20 degrees before TDC in the manual, but who is to say it wasn't changed by someone previously, I have not checked the ignition timing on this scoot yet.

Last edited by swiss1939 on Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
Molto Verboso
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Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:12 pm quote
Did you fit the head gasket?
Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
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Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:15 pm quote
Jack221 wrote:
Did you fit the head gasket?
I did not use head gasket, I only used the rubber gasket that sits inside a channel around the head, and I did not use sealant on the head, only the base gasket.
Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
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Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:26 pm quote
could it be piston slap from having to rehone it a bit and sand down that nick in the cylinder wall? That is if my rehoning took too much off and now the piston and cylinder aren't fitting great?
Molto Verboso
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Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:38 pm quote
Probably something to do with the hone. Ride around for a while and see how it runs. Some kits just rattle. And that one is famous for it.
Adjust the main jet down, its probably way over.
Timing will be ok for a while but need to check it soon.
Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
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Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:50 pm quote
Jack221 wrote:
Probably something to do with the hone. Ride around for a while and see how it runs. Some kits just rattle. And that one is famous for it.
Adjust the main jet down, its probably way over.
Timing will be ok for a while but need to check it soon.
OK. I'll ride it around for a while and slowly walk the main jet down till plug looks good. First time running in a new cylinder, so I am just being really erratic with the throttle keeping it between 2500 and 4500 rpm not holding any rpm for too long. everyone around probably thinks im an idiot, but I'd rather be cautious then reckless!

I'm also flying blind with temperature right now as I can't figure out a way to fit the spark plug sensor on with the cooling hood on yet. It was a tricky one on the stock head which I was finally able to beat the sensor up enough to where it fit in one specific way every time no problem. Now i'm working with a new sensor ring and different head so I gave up for the first day on trying to get it to fit and just put a plug in with the plug spacer still on.
Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
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Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:33 pm quote
I ordered new cudgeon pin bearings (normal, and 1st over for this size piston in case 1st over is slightly wider to remove any excess play, plus 1 for the p200 project since I needed it anyways) and cudgeon pin for this kit. I'll revisit the possibility of replacing the bearing and pin if the rattle doesn't clear up or get better with the running in of this kit.
Molto Verboso
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Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:04 pm quote
Why are you buying all these pistons? You know each one comes with a Gudgeon pin. Could have got a 177MHR for the same money.

The 200 replacement stock pistons are garbage. I hope you ordered a GS one. Or a 68mm. Anything but the stock one really.

Others with Malossi 166 kits will comment soon. From what I know they all rattle. And if they don't they seize up
Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
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Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:59 am quote
Jack221 wrote:
Why are you buying all these pistons? You know each one comes with a Gudgeon pin. Could have got a 177MHR for the same money.
I didn't order Pistons. I ordered one pin and three bearings, two for this scoot, one for P200. Two for this bike because I saw one that said for first over piston, but had the same dimensions as the original. I assume its slightly wider to accommodate the slightly larger oversized piston. I will probably return that one after I measure it and the current piston's gap for the crankshaft small end to see which one fits best. That thread i found about bearing noise mentioned sometimes needing slightly wider bearing or spacers around it to prevent sliding along the pin. I think it doesn't hurt to take measurements of everything to check, and return the unused part.

After checking all the expendable parts I ordered for this engine rebuild, I noticed I did not have a bearing for the small end. So the bearings will be used regardless, 1 on this kit when I rebuild (or sooner if needed), and 1 on the P200 when I rebuild that, because I ordered the correct size for that at least by SIP compatibility chart on the product page.

I wouldn't spend that much on multiple pistons when a new kit is the same. I would just get a new kit. Maybe the spare pin was excessive, but $9 for a spare, I am ok with that! I combined it with a few other parts needed for the P200 project as I have so many parts to get for that. I just sold the Stella Automatic CVT project that I got running and have a thread on here about. So I had money burning hole in pocket. What else to spend it on but missing parts for vespa projects!
Jack221 wrote:
From what I know they all rattle. And if they don't they seize up
I'm seeing a pattern here in your suggestions. Either they work or they seize! so we'll see which one this is

Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
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Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:06 am quote
Jack221 wrote:
The 200 replacement stock pistons are garbage. I hope you ordered a GS one. Or a 68mm. Anything but the stock one really.
Good to know. For my P200 project I was planning on putting a new cylinder kit on that as well. Currently thinking the Malossi 221 MHR kit for that as well, unless you have suggestions for better?
Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
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Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:44 am quote
I ran some quick jetting tests today to narrow it down. Went from 116MJ to 114. Still sluggish throughout, barely peaking 6500 rpm. Then was gonna go down to 112 but my 112 main jet is junk and wont stay in the atomizer. I was on the road so I didnt have any tools to fix it, and plug was still black so I went to the next smallest jet I had which is 110 MJ. It felt like it revved real nice throughout so I put everything back and went for a real short ride around the block. Still very sluggish from 0-4900 rpm, sputtering and struggling to get up to speed. Once it hits 5000 RPM it takes off like a bat out of hell to the point you gotta hold on! It definitely has a lot of room to go higher at 5000 than I was expecting. Accelerates like crazy compared to previously at that RPM. I also quickly checked WOT with choke pulled out and it throttled down so I know the 110 MJ is not too lean.

I am at the correct idle jet as instructions state, and 1 1/2 turns out on the air mix screw, but I feel like I may need to go leaner on the idle jet given the sluggishness through the low to mid end of the throttle positions. The next leanest idle i have is 55/160. I think I'm gonna try that and go back up to 115mj as precaution while i test that leaner idle. My theory/equation i came up with about overall richness last month has the 10% increased space from 150-166cc at 2.07 overall richness. If i go down to 55/160 and stay at 110 mj, then i am at 2.09 overall richness. Slightly leaner than needed.

Metallic rattle still present, but when its revving up in the "bat out of hell" range, it sounds much better.. probably cause I can't hear it over the screaming engine!

Even with this rattle sound, the kit definitely has way more of a tinny higher pitched sound compared to the stock jug.
Molto Verboso
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Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:53 pm quote
Remember you're running this in. Is better to run in hard but riding at WOT so early, even for a second is risky. Need a few hundred miles done before the fun begins.

If its sluggish at mid throttle the main jet is still too big. Remember the main jet is flowing all the time. A bigger main (115) will bleed over the pilot and you won't know what is going on.
Where did you get the 1.5 turns from? Spaco carbs are 2.5 turns.
Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
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Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:11 am quote
I will avoid WOT for a while. I only hit it WOT briefly for a few seconds to test choke.

As far as 1 1/2 turns, It was too rich to start at 2 full turns, so I turned it in a half to get it started. I will leave the idle jet and keep going down on the main.
Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
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Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:13 am quote
I can be as loud as i want while jetting right here. Manhattan on the left, the Verrazano Bridge on the right.

PANO_20190606_100930.vr.jpg



Last edited by swiss1939 on Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:02 am; edited 1 time in total
Molto Verboso
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Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:44 am quote
swiss1939 wrote:
I can be as loud as i want while jetting right here.
Wow - cool spot!
Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
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Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:18 am quote
I find it interesting that when I went to my first rally last month, I first noticed the smell of two stroke fumes from all the lambrettas and vintage vespas I was riding with. I thought it was strange that my stella fumes never smelled like that. Now that I have this 166 on with the hotter plug, I smell that same smell!

Down to 107 MJ now. Think its getting close but probably right on 105MJ. I don't have a 106MJ so I'm a little hesitant to jump straight to 105 now that I am getting close. Plug is still black though and bike is still a little sluggish to take off and mid throttle but not terribly boggy anymore. It still doesn't want to take off until 5000 RPM then it surges into acceleration. My question is if this is just the characteristic of this kit, or a result of my large squish and lower port timings right now. When I switch to 60mm crank and get the timings and squish closer to desired, will it broaden the powerband range so it doesn't feel sluggish and suddenly jump to life at 5000RPM?

I am hoping the knocking sound goes away with a fresh tank of 95 octane as the manual requires. Should be through this tank today or tomorrow.
Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
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Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:37 pm quote
Just revisited the scooterlab big box shootout for the dyno of this SIP road XL exhaust, albiet on the 200 engine not the 150. The dyno does show a pronounced increase in power right at 5000 on the stock 200 engine.


So I guess if I end up not liking the power band on this kit once jetting is correct, then I might switch exhausts to something more suitable to my terrain and city commuting, although this might work for my commute to work on the highway/BQE as most of that would be above 5000 RPM.
Molto Verboso
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Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:50 pm quote
swiss1939 wrote:
It still doesn't want to take off until 5000 RPM then it surges into acceleration. My question is if this is just the characteristic of this kit, or a result of my large squish and lower port timings right now. When I switch to 60mm crank and get the timings and squish closer to desired, will it broaden the powerband range so it doesn't feel sluggish and suddenly jump to life at 5000RPM?
Yes, with 118/172 that's how your porting is now. Not much go and all at the top. You wanted to see what plug and play was like. This is it.

52/140 is the Malossi supplied jet and I think a good call. Keep going down on the main jet until you feel the urge to open the mixture screw from 1.5 turns. That is the point where the main jet is no longer flooding the pilot jet.
Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
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Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:29 pm quote
Jack221 wrote:
swiss1939 wrote:
It still doesn't want to take off until 5000 RPM then it surges into acceleration. My question is if this is just the characteristic of this kit, or a result of my large squish and lower port timings right now. When I switch to 60mm crank and get the timings and squish closer to desired, will it broaden the powerband range so it doesn't feel sluggish and suddenly jump to life at 5000RPM?
Yes, with 118/172 that's how your porting is now. Not much go and all at the top. You wanted to see what plug and play was like. This is it.

52/140 is the Malossi supplied jet and I think a good call. Keep going down on the main jet until you feel the urge to open the mixture screw from 1.5 turns. That is the point where the main jet is no longer flooding the pilot jet.
I find it helps me understand what each change and part does to do it in individual steps.. so when I get to actual porting and feel that change, I will know from experience what it did. Same thing with the clutch gear change. No amount of reading about it online could really explain it until I did it.

I will continue walking main jet down. I have tested the idle jet by turning mix screw closed and it does not stall, so the main jet must really be flooding it at idle.
Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
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Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:31 am quote
I honestly think this idle jet may be too rich. I think I'm getting closer on the main down to 105 now, but still a little boggy low to mid throttle. Air mix screw all the way closed still won't stall it, just high rpm. I spent a little more time setting the air mix cause it was still rich and stalling on idle when sitting for a few minutes. It's now set to .75 full turns out.

I also filled tank up with highest octane i can get, 93, with about .2g gal off lower 87 still in it. Rattle seemed to lessen but still there. Then i went and got octane booster and put the correct amount in for my tank. Still rattling. So i added some more. Still rattle. So it must be Piston slap or just noisy kit like Jack suggest. It's not as loud now.

EDIT: In looking at Octane, I just learned there are two different systems, one for USA (AKI) and one for Europe (RON). So I take it that what is 95 octane in the Malossi instructions is RON and should be 90 Octane in the US? This means I went too high on this tank at 93 AKI and definitely don't need octane booster for every subsequent tank.
Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
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Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:18 pm quote
Ok so I tried to check the ignition timing yesterday with a SIP piston stopper and it was too short to effectively find TDC.. turning one way till stop and back the other way till it stopped was like 240+ degrees so I couldn't easily find TDC on a part of the case I could mark. I have ordered a new piston stopper from Scooter Mercato which is much longer to hopefully create a shorter distance between the two stops.

With that said, I have been reading threads on here about how critical it is to set ignition timing for these kits. My question is, should it really be set to 18 deg BTDC? I thought retarded ignition timing would prevent problems leading to holing pistons? The stock timing for stella is 20 deg BTDC. If this is really a dangerous setup and 18 deg is necessary then I will change it as soon as I am able to. Im just curious how retarded vs advanced timing affect the heat in the engine? Having cancelled out octane as the cause, then I am left with timing.. and if not that, then something physical, ie. gudgeon pin bearing or piston slap from my attempts (honing) to fix the nick in the cylinder wall.
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Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:38 pm quote
Ok, if you're running a 20/20 on a Malossi 166? This thread is long so I'm just checking.

I'd be concerned running a 105 MJ. You should be at 110-115 MJ. Definitely retard your ignition to 18* before driving your scooter. You should NOT be driving at the speed/RPM to adjust your main jet at this point... especially if you are not sure about your timing.
Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
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Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:10 pm quote
PureDrivenSnow wrote:
Ok, if you're running a 20/20 on a Malossi 166? This thread is long so I'm just checking.
Yes I am at 20/20 carb. I have a 24/24 that I could use for this but haven't because I see enough comments on threads saying its not any better. I was holding onto it for my p200 project, but if I need it for this I can use it for this.


This is my plug at jetting (52/140 AC140 BE4 MJ105) as suggested by Malossi instructions for standard ignition timing. I have kept rpms between 2500-5000 using throttle very jerky and not holding it for very long at all. City driving stop and go traffic constantly up and down, not really driving anywhere, just trying to run in the kit by heat cycling and being random with the rpms within reason.

But after reading up on ignition timing I have laid off until I get the piston stopper so I can set it to 18 degrees and then upjet to 115. I appreciate the word of caution and advice.

IMG_20190607_212226.jpg
52/140 AC140 BE4 MJ105

IMG_20190607_212220.jpg
52/140 AC140 BE4 MJ105

IMG_20190607_212236.jpg
52/140 AC140 BE4 MJ105

Molto Verboso
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Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:56 pm quote
Plugs looking ok so far. If you left it there until 200 miles are done it will get you through the risky stage.

Once on a 60mm crank you're going to need the 24/24 and better reeds on this. If the 200 will be an MHR its going to need a 30mm carb for rotary or 35mm+ for reed.

Timing only affects higher rpm. While running in at 5000rpm and less you could be at 25 degrees. Check what it is first. TDC mark accuracy is crucial be sure it is correct.

EDIT Main jet still too big btw. Once the mixture screw needs to be open then you're there.
Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
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Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:05 pm quote
Jack221 wrote:
Plugs looking ok so far. If you left it there until 200 miles are done it will get you through the risky stage.

Once on a 60mm crank you're going to need the 24/24 and better reeds on this. If the 200 will be an MHR its going to need a 30mm carb for rotary or 35mm+ for reed.

Timing only affects higher rpm. While running in at 5000rpm and less you could be at 25 degrees. Check what it is first. TDC mark accuracy is crucial be sure it is correct.
I've done about 65 miles on this jetting and 30 on richer jetting. I'm holding off any further riding until i get that timing checked.

I currently have boyesen reeds on this scoot. Good enough? I better use the 24/24 carb on this scoot once I put in the long stroke crank, and plan for some other carb for the p200. I got the modified 24/24 carb with the supply hole drilled wider and sip 4.0 throttle slide. So that should provide enough flow for this kit on long stroke crank.
Molto Verboso
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Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:23 pm quote
Should I even bother with the 24/24 carb until I get the 60mm crank in? If it will help once run in, then I may put it on. If its a good idea, then I'll wait for ignition timing set to 18 degrees and another two tanks of gas before I even mess with that since jetting is safe now and good enough to bring to temp for running in. BTW, I do not have a fast flow tap in yet. I gather that is ideal once its got a long stroke crank in.
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Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:29 pm quote
Jack221 wrote:
EDIT Main jet still too big btw. Once the mixture screw needs to be open then you're there.
105 is too big?
Molto Verboso
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Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:41 pm quote
I can't seem to get the timing marks lined up when using the strobe gun.

This is how i marked the points:
1. Installed Piston stopper and degree wheel.
2. Turned flywheel clockwise until stopped.
3. Set degree wheel to 0 degrees at the wire used for pointing.
4. Turned flywheel counter clockwise till stopped. Noted 282 degrees.
5. Removed Piston stopper
6. Turn flywheel clockwise to 141 degrees. Mark the flywheel and the case for TDC.
7. Turned flywheel counter clockwise 18 degrees, marked case to match the zero mark on flywheel.
8. Turned flywheel another 5 degrees counter clockwise and marked case for 23 degrees.
9. Matched up tdc on case with tdc on flywheel, then made a matching mark on flywheel for 18 degrees (wasn't sure where the flywheel mark is supposed to be made to match).
10. Started engine and checked marks. My flywheel marks are the opposite side of my case marks.

Where am i going wrong?

IMG_20190610_183015.jpg

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Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:53 pm quote
Are you sure you haven't just found BDC instead of TDC?
Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
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Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:09 pm quote
Let clarify my previous post. I marked the left side of case because that was easiest for me to stick marker in there. My case has some electronic component at the top which is in the way of being able to mark the case.

With that said, i assume it doesn't matter where you make your marks as long as they are correct for the position of tdc.

The included photo shows where the flywheel marks show up under timing light.

I guess this means i did find bottom dead center. How do i correct that? Not sure where i am going wrong in the process.

EDIT: I've answered my own stupid question, with a little help from grimmripper who pointed it out at the same time I was realizing it from reading my own post about 180 degrees out of sync. I'm gonna leave my brain fart up for posterity.

If its BDC, just take the piston stopper out, turn over till it enters the other half of the stroke, and re-enter piston stopper, then measure/mark everything again. Find it funny that I rechecked everything like 5 times, and not once did the flywheel turn over to the correct half of the stroke in any time I had the stopper out.

I was thinking with my anger and frustration, not intellect. I'll admit that was dumb. Thinking with anger instead of brain leads to:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2uHBhKTSe0


IMG_20190610_190756.jpg

Ossessionato
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Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:13 pm quote
People tend to make this much harder than it is.

1. Find TDC.

2. Mark it on the flywheel and case.

3. Rotate the flywheel counter-clockwise 18 degrees (or whatever) and mark that on the case only.

That's your timing mark. That mark and the TDC mark on your flywheel will line up under a timing light if the timing’s correct.

The only mark you need on the flywheel is TDC.
Molto Verboso
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Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:16 pm quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
People tend to make this much harder than it is.

1. Find TDC.

2. Mark it on the flywheel and case.

3. Rotate the flywheel counter-clockwise 18 degrees (or whatever) and mark that on the case only.

That's your timing mark. That mark and the mark on your flywheel will line up under a timing light if the timing’s correct.

The only mark you need on the flywheel is TDC.
Thanks! I walked away for the day cause I was getting too frustrated.

I'll get back to this later this week or weekend probably.
Ossessionato
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Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:32 pm quote
And you can find TDC within a degree just by sticking a screwdriver in the spark plug hole and watching it move as you turn the flywheel. No need to stop the piston, mark, turn the other way, add, subtract, fumble with the degree wheel, reposition the pointer, etc. etc.
Molto Verboso
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Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1127
Location: Staten Island, NY
Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:56 pm quote
Thanks socal. I tried again today with the degree wheel as i wanted to figure out where i was going wrong with that.

I marked everything again same as before with one mark on flywheel for tdc. Ran it with the timing gun and it was still off, but i noted accurately where my tdc mark on flywheel was showing up under strobe. Case mark for tdc was 8 oclock. Tdc flywheel mark was 11 o clock. With the understanding that my incorrect flywheel mark was approx 90 degrees ATDC, i played around with the math on the degree wheel until i found the correct alignment of flywheel to offset the original tdc mark, then made a new correct tdc mark on flywheel to line up with the original case mark. I forget the exact process it took for me to get it correct. I think what i had to do was subtract my reading of 282 degrees between stops from 360 then divide that by two to get 41 degrees (thanks Hibbert). Then i can't remember the exact direction but i turned flywheel to one side until it hit the stopper, removed the stopper, then turned the flywheel past where the stop was 41 degrees and made a new mark on the flywheel to match the case tdc mark.

Now the timing light finally lined up those marks! So i took flywheel off and moved the stator all the way to T mark from A mark since it was set at 23 degrees originally. I knew from the looks of the stator plate holes i wasn't gonna get it fully onto 18 degrees but i wanted to check it as is. With the stator fully to T mark now, which should be 18 degrees, the timing light showed marks are still about quarter inch apart.

I took the stator out and will Dremel the screw mounting holes out enough to set correctly this weekend. Btw, this LML stator is so different from any other I've seen in videos. It has some magnet or sensor extending outside the case above the flywheel. Wondering what that is about. The flywheel also has a section that is cut out/inverted on the outer edge differently from any other flywheel I've seen pictures of. I assume that inverted edge area activates the magnet sensor for something. LML stator plate listed on sip does not have this magnet/sensor extension, makes me wonder if this is original to the bike or something put on later by a previous owner.

https://sip-scootershop.com/en/products/stator+plate+lml+for+lml+125_85180000

IMG_20190611_181302.jpg

IMG_20190606_124917.jpg
different inverted cutout section on the flywheel

Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1127
Location: Staten Island, NY
Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:34 am quote
Been trying to find pictures of flywheel and stator that look like mine. This is the first one I've found. Anyone have info on the difference between these and more common ones everyone seems to have?

https://beedspeed.com/collections/scooter-stators/products/vespa-stator-plate-and-flywheel-lml-sensation-indian-pk-xl
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Florence, OR
Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:29 am quote
swiss1939 wrote:
I was thinking with my anger and frustration, not intellect. I'll admit that was dumb. Thinking with anger instead of brain leads to:
I almost spit out my coffee. So stupid funny. I love it!
Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1127
Location: Staten Island, NY
Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:11 pm quote
qascooter wrote:
I almost spit out my coffee. So stupid funny. I love it!
I can relate almost any part of that movie to most interactions!
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