62 Allstate Cruisaire - getting it back on the road
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Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2036
Location: california
Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:37 pm quote
Put a big smile on my face - though tough luck on the donuts.
There's always tomorrow.

I'll wait to see if Jack sees and can jump in before tomorrow AM our time.
If not - I have a regimen I can suggest over coffee.

Can you confirm two things for us so we know:
- Has this carb had the hole in the bottom of the float drilled out?
- Are you running any type of temp gauge?

Scoots looks great - sounds like B62's fun factor has just tripled as well.
Awesome!
-CM
Jet Eye Master
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2602
Location: London UK
Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:30 pm quote
Looking good. Put the BE3 in for now. Will go a bit better while running in. Need to get the main jet better. That plug looks way too rich and that's just as bad as too lean for getting hot.
Molto Verboso
79 P200E, 62 Allstate, 2008 Stella
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1989
Location: Florence, OR
Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:36 am quote
charlieman22 wrote:
Can you confirm two things for us so we know:
- Has this carb had the hole in the bottom of the float drilled out?
- Are you running any type of temp gauge?
Thanks CM! Yes, 2.0mm hole has been drilled in carb, No on the temp gauge.

Thank you Jack for the info. I'll put in the BE3 and a 105mj

- Is the B7HS the right plug?
- What Idle Jet should I be running?


Thanks guys!
Jet Eye Master
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2602
Location: London UK
Fri Jul 17, 2020 8:35 am quote
7 plug will be ok for jetting in. Once jetted in the 7 will probably still be ok but we will see. Going too high number on the plug too early often ends up with running too weak. And that's never good.

48/140 pilot is about right but can't be finalised until the main jet is set. With a BE5 that might end up 48/160. Hard to guess.
You can do some short high rpm runs in 2nd to get the main jet nearer.
Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2036
Location: california
Fri Jul 17, 2020 8:37 am quote
Hey qas -
Here is my $.02.
Feel free to use part, all, or simply ignore the whole thing.

Jack likes to jet with focus on main first - and it works.
I am going to suggest s small adjustment to idle tho at the outset.
To jet in - especially with no gauge - you need the motor to have a few more heat cycles on it.

1. Go ahead and take your idle mixture ratio down a little now. You can use that 4 stroking as a guide. No need to get perfect - but its so rich that it will make dialing in the main jet a little tougher. Something that gives you a ratio about 3.3 is probably pretty close. 48-160, or 42-140, that kinda thing.

2. Plug will be fairly easy to determine. You are looking for the point at which the electrode strap changes color. You want it to be at the bend - about 50/50 along the way. Too cold - it fouls. To hot - it pings. Often the kit will come with a suggestion. Also - double check you have the right length threads - short thread plug in long thread hole will cause bad pinging. If you shoot a pic from the side - so we can see where the color changes - we can add some opinion if you're unsure.

3. Once a few heat cycles done: Find a stretch of road you can run WOT in second and just hold it. This will be your test run area. You will want a spot you can repeat the process in. Personally - with no tach, and no temp gauge, I would approach as follows:

Make it richer first. like a 112. A jet that won't let it rev out. It will just seem to be limited at a slower speed in second when you run WOT and just hold it there.

Then replace that jet with smaller and run again.
Rinse and repeat until it starts to take off and wants to run faster at WOT in second. Now you are close.
You can try one leaner than where you first feel it taking off.
Now you can do a plug chop.

To do one properly - you need a new plug.
Hopefully we will know what temp plug is right by then so you can buy 2 or 3 of the right ones...
Google it if you are not familiar with the method - but the basics are:
- Go to your testing strip area.
- Put a new plug in
- Rev it out in first WOT, then shift to second and just hold WOT like your running a weed whacker for at least 30 seconds. A min is even better if your test strip is long enough.
- Hit kill switch with throttle still held WO and coast to a stop with engine off.
- Pull plug and replace (wait a few minutes to let it cool just a bit).
- Chop it like videos show.
- You are looking for a ring - no taller than 2mm - and brown in color - at the base of the plug. If you are too lean - ring will be lighter, smaller, or non existent. If you are too rich, ring will be taller and darker.

Things that will derail you:
Pinging. This is always what you are watching out for - and it can be tough to hear. The give away will be little specs on your plug. Get some reading glasses. Shoot a pic now of your plug in perfect focus or through a magnifying glass so you have a reference - and be vigilant about looking for little particles of melted aluminum that show up on the ceramic or electrode. That is little bits of your new piston. Don't fret - means nothing - as long as you catch it early. Lean or too much advance are the most common culprits.

When done getting MJ in - we can focus on the idle.
Hope it's helpful.
-CM

Screen Shot 2020-05-08 at 7.06.53 PM.png
Example of too cold

Addicted
'66 Super 150
Joined: 11 Jul 2017
Posts: 736
Location: MN
Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:14 pm quote
Great work going on here, qa!! Just sitting outside in the sun catching up on your thread and enjoying.

B-62 is looking GOOD! Love the new low-rider seat and the beautiful tail light! Bummer about dropping/breaking your headlight but sounds like youíve already got it covered.

Your mechanical machinations are above my head, but I do hafta compliment you on your photography skills. Love to see and learn from your fabulous pics. Especially enjoyed your recent ďinside the exhaust portĒ. Looks abstractly mysterious. Could almost be shown at an art exhibit.....
Jet Eye Master
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2602
Location: London UK
Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:58 am quote
Kimono, as suggested last year. Did you ever take your exhaust off to look at your port? If you haven't I suspect it really needs a clean out by now.
Molto Verboso
79 P200E, 62 Allstate, 2008 Stella
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1989
Location: Florence, OR
Sat Jul 18, 2020 8:37 am quote
Jack221 wrote:
7 plug will be ok for jetting in. Once jetted in the 7 will probably still be ok but we will see. Going too high number on the plug too early often ends up with running too weak. And that's never good.

48/140 pilot is about right but can't be finalised until the main jet is set. With a BE5 that might end up 48/160. Hard to guess.
You can do some short high rpm runs in 2nd to get the main jet nearer.
Excellent, thanks Jack. Much appreciated! I've put the BE3 in and a 105MJ and will give it a go while waiting for the BE5 and a couple idle jets, and more plugs.
charlieman22 wrote:
Here is my $.02....
You WAY underestimate the worth of your advice CM Thanks so much for the detailed explanation, plug pic, and advice. I'm waiting on new plugs (they fit the cylinder nicely, and no recommendation from Pinasco). I'm going to run it with a 140/BE3/105 and see what I get. I'm taking a few days off and going glamping for a few, but I'll be back mid next week (Ruby is going with)... And CM - THANK YOU for the awesome Chinese finger torture wire wrap!
Kimono32 wrote:
Great work going on here, qa!! Just sitting outside in the sun...
Thank you K for the kind words! Sitting in the sun....I shoot to do that daily but doesn't always work out...

I can't take credit for the photos, it's the Samsung S10 that does all the nice work. The trick is to keep it from getting all greased up while taking pictures.

20200717_172716_resized.jpg
Check out the wire wrap CM sent to B-62. The stuff is awesome!

Addicted
'66 Super 150
Joined: 11 Jul 2017
Posts: 736
Location: MN
Sat Jul 18, 2020 8:55 am quote
Jack221 wrote:
Kimono, as suggested last year. Did you ever take your exhaust off to look at your port? If you haven't I suspect it really needs a clean out by now.
Um, uh, well..... unfortunately, no, I didnít. I LOOKED at the exhaust pipe for a while and thought about trying, but it appeared so firmly rusted in place that I wasnít sure I could even get it off. Iíll slide it up to the top of my long list of things to do and thank you, Jack, for the reminder.

I should take an ďinside the exhaust portĒ pic on Blueís rusted out dirty old thing. It wonít look remotely like qaís. But it might have some artistic quality
Molto Verboso
79 P200E, 62 Allstate, 2008 Stella
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1989
Location: Florence, OR
Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:20 am quote
Kimono32 wrote:
I LOOKED at the exhaust pipe for a while and thought about trying, but it appeared so firmly rusted in place that I wasnít sure I could even get it off.
Hey K, It's actually easier than you think. Here's how:

- 14mm socket - you got a nice set of those now.
- remove the bolt from the left side by the tire.
- Loosen the nut that holds the exhaust to the base of the cylinder, on the engine side right up next to the engine.
- get a wooden handle and put it on top of the exhaust where it bends
- tap the wooden handle to get the exhaust to start sliding off the exhaust port
- wiggle, twist and pull down the exhaust.
- voila, it slides off the exhaust port and onto the ground.
- You may even get to bypass the wooden handle section and just wiggle the exhaust and it may just drop right off with the right torque and twisting.

If you can clean a carb, this job is a piece of cake! And yes, pics please! Probably on Blues thread though, eh? Although, I do feel Blue and B-62 are like two peas in a pod...
Addicted
'66 Super 150
Joined: 11 Jul 2017
Posts: 736
Location: MN
Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:12 pm quote
qascooter wrote:
Kimono32 wrote:
I LOOKED at the exhaust pipe for a while and thought about trying, but it appeared so firmly rusted in place that I wasnít sure I could even get it off.
Hey K, It's actually easier than you think. Here's how:

- 14mm socket - you got a nice set of those now.
- remove the bolt from the left side by the tire.
- Loosen the nut that holds the exhaust to the base of the cylinder, on the engine side right up next to the engine.
- get a wooden handle and put it on top of the exhaust where it bends
- tap the wooden handle to get the exhaust to start sliding off the exhaust port
- wiggle, twist and pull down the exhaust.
- voila, it slides off the exhaust port and onto the ground.
- You may even get to bypass the wooden handle section and just wiggle the exhaust and it may just drop right off with the right torque and twisting.

If you can clean a carb, this job is a piece of cake! And yes, pics please! Probably on Blues thread though, eh? Although, I do feel Blue and B-62 are like two peas in a pod...
Jeez, qa!!!! You make it sound easy and totally do-able. Thanks, seriously, for describing each step so simply.

And, of course, Iíll post all pics on my own thread. Apologies for the non-intended hijack.

Blue and B-62 are kinda like brother/sister with a strong family resemblance, or kissing cousins at least
Addicted
'66 Super 150
Joined: 11 Jul 2017
Posts: 736
Location: MN
Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:14 pm quote
Also, your wire wrap makes everything look so neat and tidy. Nice!!!
Molto Verboso
79 P200E, 62 Allstate, 2008 Stella
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1989
Location: Florence, OR
Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:31 pm quote
Kimono32 wrote:
Jeez, qa!!!! You make it sound easy and totally do-able. Thanks, seriously, for describing each step so simply.

And, of course, Iíll post all pics on my own thread. Apologies for the non-intended hijack.

Blue and B-62 are kinda like brother/sister with a strong family resemblance, or kissing cousins at least
You'll probably get greasy cause the exhaust can get pretty dirty, but it should come off with a little...persuasion.

And you could never hijack this thread - post pics of Blue, B62's kissing cousin on here anytime! I love it!
Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 2295

Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:44 am quote
V oodoo wrote:
I don't know ANYBODY who does so much properly and with such obvious enthusiasm and who also has so many other challenges to deal with along the way. And who shares the fun so dang well too.

Respect!
Well said Voodoo , Huge Respect. I'm learning so much.
Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2036
Location: california
Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:33 pm quote
Ok - full disclosure.
I had purchased for my project - and had some extra.
But I hadn't actually used the wire wrap myself before I sent a bit up to qas.

Having seen it - it looks great - everywhere... except the ends.
qas - this is strictly constructive feedback with hindsight of course!
and here it is...

The fraying at the ends kinda steels from the over all beauty in my humble opinion.
So I did a quick search on the internets - and sure enough - someone has the solution for making it super slick.

For your consideration:

heat-shrink-during-small.jpg
Heat shrink!

Molto Verboso
79 P200E, 62 Allstate, 2008 Stella
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1989
Location: Florence, OR
Wed Aug 19, 2020 8:34 pm quote
Kimono32 wrote:
Also, your wire wrap makes everything look so neat and tidy. Nice!!!
Thanks K - I'm trying! But you should see my bench - it's a big mess...
Lynnb wrote:
Well said Voodoo , Huge Respect. I'm learning so much.
Shucks Lynn - Thanks for the huge complement.
charlieman22 wrote:
The fraying at the ends kinda steels from the over all beauty in my humble opinion.
I agree - and ended up using heat shrink where I could, and good ole electrical tape where I couldn't.

In the end I'm probably going to move the Regulator into the tank cavity, next time I pull the tank. It'll clean all that up quite nicely. Gick just posted a pic on BN's shitbox thread. But here is how it looks for the time being...And thanks again for the feedback, and the cool wrap material!

20200812_132946_resized.jpg
Heat shrink on the plug wire ends, and electrical tape everywhere else. It'll do...for now...

Molto Verboso
79 P200E, 62 Allstate, 2008 Stella
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1989
Location: Florence, OR
Thu Aug 20, 2020 8:47 pm quote
I've been super flippin busy lately, I haven't gotten to much riding BUT I managed a few hours yesterday.

I made a few plug chops to check the main jet. The pilot feels too rich cause it's stuttering up until 1/4 throttle.

Currently I've got in there:

Pilot 48-140
Main Stack: 120-BE5-105

I'm thinking the plug looks pretty good. What do you all think?
Also I'm looking at moving the pilot to a 45-140 or a 38-120, the only other pilots I have besides the 55-160.

So this 1962, three speed machine is still all original (except for the top end), including the clutch. I've never opened the cases or the clutch, which is grabby as can be. 60 mph this thing is screaming, and still wants to go faster, but I, ahem, chicken out each time. And running it up in 2nd feels like it's going to blow. I'm nervous to peg it in 2nd for 30 seconds. I've done some pretty ballsy stuff in my lifetime, but this is on the sketchy side.

So what do you think of the two plug chops? Also, which pilot should I try, the 45-140 or 38-120 first?

Thanks guys!

20200819_131719_resized.jpg
First run

20200819_135604_resized.jpg
2nd Run

Screenshot_20200819-142729_DigiHUD.jpg
60 on 8's - Big Adrenaline Rush

20200819_170432_resized.jpg
Safe at home in the garage

Jet Eye Master
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2602
Location: London UK
Thu Aug 20, 2020 11:37 pm quote
Looking good. If you've held it screaming at 60mph with no incident the main jet must be close if not correct. Everything else seems reasonable. All focus on the pilot jet. If 48/140 is too big how many turns on the mixture screw? I expect maybe 2.
38/120 is a good next step. If it needs more than 3 turns out it is too small but really could be ok.

Clutch. Get one of these in 22 teeth if you have a 21 tooth now. All clutch issues fixed in one reasonably priced lump.
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/clutch+sip+cosa+2+sport+for_93404000
With slightly higher gearing you will be able to cruise at speed better, whether you go faster or not. 60 mph (GPS) with 8inch wheels is getting into the scary zone for sure.
Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2036
Location: california
Thu Aug 20, 2020 11:43 pm quote
You have the Jet eye on the case - so no additional from me other than - what carb is on it?
Did you go new or is it older?
Reason I ask - if older - mixture screw is more corse - and will require fewer twists.
Saw Gick's suggestion on regulator placement in the chassis - would be extra nice - that's the beauty of shoe goo!
Nice touch on the wire sleeve ends tho.
Cheers.
-CM
Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 2295

Fri Aug 21, 2020 8:17 am quote
Sounds like your getting dialed in pretty good, I would think the proper Main would be the most important , I still can't comprehend these scooters doing 60mph . Still learning.
Molto Verboso
79 P200E, 62 Allstate, 2008 Stella
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1989
Location: Florence, OR
Sat Aug 22, 2020 8:11 am quote
Jack221 wrote:
Looking good. If you've held it screaming at 60mph with no incident the main jet must be close if not correct. Everything else seems reasonable....
A big Thank You Jack! I'll start looking at a 22 tooth Cosa clutch. After I dial it in where it's comfortable to ride around town without any hiccups in power delivery.
charlieman22 wrote:
What carb is on it?
Thanks CM! Dellorto, so 2 turns out should do it...
Lynnb wrote:
I still can't comprehend these scooters doing 60mph.
You'll see Lynn. Just don't forget to wear your helmet or put on shoes
Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 2295

Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:00 pm quote
Shoes and helmet on top of the list.
Addicted
'66 Super 150
Joined: 11 Jul 2017
Posts: 736
Location: MN
Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:02 pm quote
60 mph on 8ís?!?!? Youíre nuts, qa!

I chicken at 50, feel like the whole scootís gonna kerplode....

Keep it up! Maybe next time push it up to 62?

Double-dog dare you......
Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 2295

Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:41 am quote
Kimono32 wrote:
60 mph on 8ís?!?!? Youíre nuts, qa!

I chicken at 50, feel like the whole scootís gonna kerplode....

Keep it up! Maybe next time push it up to 62?

Double-dog dare you......
Iíve only gotten down my street and
back , I canít wait to hit a 50.
Molto Verboso
79 P200E, 62 Allstate, 2008 Stella
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1989
Location: Florence, OR
Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:09 pm quote
So I've just been riding B-62 around on errands and working on the jetting, specifically the 0 to 1/4 throttle.

I've tried the 48-140 from 1/2 turn to 3 turns out. Just gets blublier as I turn out the air/fuel mixture screw. And yes Blubblier is a technical term. Haha!

The 38-120 is a bit better, cleaner around 3/4 to 1 turn, but still glugging a bit.

So I stuck in my next smallest pilot jet today, a 40-130, and it cleaned up nicely! I found that about 2 turns out is as good as it's going to get with that pilot jet.

I want to get the 48-160 jet and try that. For the time being I think I'm going back to the 38-120, after I try this 40-130 for a few more...errands...

It's feeling better and better every time I take it out. Each time I take it out I run it through 3 or 4 heat cycles. "Errands" take a long time with traffic and all. Ha!

Naah, I tell my wife that I'm going to run an errand and she knows exactly what I'll be doing, cause I've described the heat cycling the engine to her until her eyes glaze over, which is about in 30 seconds. I can't blame her - I get a bit too verbose at times, and excited about dialing it in. And I gotta say, when she starts talking about Haworthia's, my eyes glaze over in about 20 seconds...

Next step - keep running it in and time to get some more pilot jets.

Oh, and K - Next time I run the GPS I'll hit 62 for ya

20200917_163657_resized.jpg
Ready to roll on an errand

20200917_163628_resized.jpg
Only the best mats for B62 to hang out on

Molto Verboso
Vespa
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 1263
Location: California
Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:43 pm quote
Very good qascooter youíre a good dude for doing the errands
Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 2295

Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:54 pm quote
Love the pics of the bike.
I've been trying as well to get mine adjusted proper but I've been struggling, I can't get it to fall back quick .
I've been trying with this guys Youtube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtkjaK-1c6U&list=PL7SWwzc0TBDYXhXvfkw6UQSaoR5m9l5hN&index=136&t=0s

No more wot for me and only heat cycles or I'm going to be permanently put in the corner.
Jet Eye Master
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2602
Location: London UK
Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:16 pm quote
If you are sure it's blubbier and not coughing. Stick with the 40/130 and drill out the air hole 0.1mm at a time until you like it. Once the mixture turns get to 2.5 it should be done.
Although running clean will actually make the errands take longer.
Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 2295

Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:07 am quote
Kimono32 wrote:
60 mph on 8ís?!?!? Youíre nuts, qa!

I chicken at 50, feel like the whole scootís gonna kerplode....

Keep it up! Maybe next time push it up to 62?

Double-dog dare you......
Yep , but the hole pucker up experience seems to give a better ride.
Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 2295

Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:27 am quote
qascooter wrote:
So I've just been riding B-62 around on errands and working on the jetting, specifically the 0 to 1/4 throttle.

I've tried the 48-140 from 1/2 turn to 3 turns out. Just gets blublier as I turn out the air/fuel mixture screw. And yes Blubblier is a technical term. Haha!

The 38-120 is a bit better, cleaner around 3/4 to 1 turn, but still glugging a bit.

So I stuck in my next smallest pilot jet today, a 40-130, and it cleaned up nicely! I found that about 2 turns out is as good as it's going to get with that pilot jet.

I want to get the 48-160 jet and try that. For the time being I think I'm going back to the 38-120, after I try this 40-130 for a few more...errands...

It's feeling better and better every time I take it out. Each time I take it out I run it through 3 or 4 heat cycles. "Errands" take a long time with traffic and all. Ha!

Naah, I tell my wife that I'm going to run an errand and she knows exactly what I'll be doing, cause I've described the heat cycling the engine to her until her eyes glaze over, which is about in 30 seconds. I can't blame her - I get a bit too verbose at times, and excited about dialing it in. And I gotta say, when she starts talking about Haworthia's, my eyes glaze over in about 20 seconds...

Next step - keep running it in and time to get some more pilot jets.

Oh, and K - Next time I run the GPS I'll hit 62 for ya
I sat here last nite reading your comment and rereading and trying to understand how...

How is it even possible to have the 38-120 ( 3.15 ) and have 3/4 to 1 turn out ( so less fuel added on the turns) and gets better,

and yet the 40-130 ( 3.25 ) with two turns ( more fuel added on the turns ) out get better ( best) when the 40-130 is richer to start with and have more richness added by turning out the screw?

Shouldn't the two samples with there compareable turns out be practicly the same results?
Am I that much out of wacked confused, and just totally not understanding here?

You didn't mention how many turns out you went with the 48-160 ( 3.33 ).
Molto Verboso
79 P200E, 62 Allstate, 2008 Stella
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1989
Location: Florence, OR
Fri Sep 18, 2020 8:08 am quote
Exactly Lynn - I'm sure there is overlap in the pilot jets to an extent. I thought it wouldn't even run properly with 40-130 and yet it runs the best, but still a little rough.

Which tells me I don't know my ass from hole in the ground when it comes to a blubbing or glugging. Ha!

Actually, I can tell when it's not running good, but still am learning to dial it in appropriately.

For every jet I've started at 1/2 turn out and slowly work my way up to 3 turns out. And what feels best. Then I just do the ole fast idle, turn the A/F in quickly to stop and out until it feels like the idle is slowing a hare, then adjust the idle back down, and try it.

I waffle in between these two ways, And usually every time I stop, someone wants to talk to me about the scooter. I kid you not. Then I lose my place on what I was doing, and start all over. So I've learned to park in out of the way places, and it still happens. People go out of their way to tell me stories about their scooters they've had.

That's cool though. I'd rather listen to a story, which is more important than the story for some of these folks. The scooter will get dialed in at some point. And the cylinder just got another heat cycle.
Enthusiast
2005 Stella 2T
Joined: 14 Jun 2020
Posts: 98
Location: MA
Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:39 pm quote
Lynnb wrote:
How is it even possible to have the 38-120 ( 3.15 ) and have 3/4 to 1 turn out ( so less fuel added on the turns) and gets better, and yet the 40-130 ( 3.25 ) with two turns ( more fuel added on the turns ) out get better ( best) when the 40-130 is richer to start with and have more richness added by turning out the screw?
Lower ratio = richer idle jet so qascooter's results are what one would expect.

I have found it simplest to approach the mixture screw from the opposite direction so to speak. Start very rich (say 3-4 turns out) and turn in until the idle just starts to go up (indicating it is starting to get leaner). Back out a 1/4 turn from there and your done.
Molto Verboso
79 P200E, 62 Allstate, 2008 Stella
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1989
Location: Florence, OR
Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:42 pm quote
Kowalski wrote:
I have found it simplest to approach the mixture screw from the opposite direction so to speak. Start very rich (say 3-4 turns out) and turn in until the idle just starts to go up (indicating it is starting to get leaner). Back out a 1/4 turn from there and your done.
Most Excellent Kowalski - I'm going to try this - thank you!
Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 2295

Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:45 pm quote
Kowalski wrote:
Lynnb wrote:
How is it even possible to have the 38-120 ( 3.15 ) and have 3/4 to 1 turn out ( so less fuel added on the turns) and gets better, and yet the 40-130 ( 3.25 ) with two turns ( more fuel added on the turns ) out get better ( best) when the 40-130 is richer to start with and have more richness added by turning out the screw?
Lower ratio = richer idle jet so qascooter's results are what one would expect.

I have found it simplest to approach the mixture screw from the opposite direction so to speak. Start very rich (say 3-4 turns out) and turn in until the idle just starts to go up (indicating it is starting to get leaner). Back out a 1/4 turn from there and your done.
That is an excellent technique, after doing this and you blip the throttle more than half will it quickly return to the steady idle?
Enthusiast
2005 Stella 2T
Joined: 14 Jun 2020
Posts: 98
Location: MA
Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:13 pm quote
Lynnb wrote:
Kowalski wrote:
Lynnb wrote:
How is it even possible to have the 38-120 ( 3.15 ) and have 3/4 to 1 turn out ( so less fuel added on the turns) and gets better, and yet the 40-130 ( 3.25 ) with two turns ( more fuel added on the turns ) out get better ( best) when the 40-130 is richer to start with and have more richness added by turning out the screw?
Lower ratio = richer idle jet so qascooter's results are what one would expect.

I have found it simplest to approach the mixture screw from the opposite direction so to speak. Start very rich (say 3-4 turns out) and turn in until the idle just starts to go up (indicating it is starting to get leaner). Back out a 1/4 turn from there and your done.
That is an excellent technique, after doing this and you blip the throttle more than half will it quickly return to the steady idle?
It should. If anything, this technique will leave you a little rich, so the focus should be more on whether the engine responds immediately when you blip the throttle in the first place.
Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 2295

Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:22 pm quote
Kowalski wrote:
Lynnb wrote:
Kowalski wrote:
Lynnb wrote:
How is it even possible to have the 38-120 ( 3.15 ) and have 3/4 to 1 turn out ( so less fuel added on the turns) and gets better, and yet the 40-130 ( 3.25 ) with two turns ( more fuel added on the turns ) out get better ( best) when the 40-130 is richer to start with and have more richness added by turning out the screw?
Lower ratio = richer idle jet so qascooter's results are what one would expect.

I have found it simplest to approach the mixture screw from the opposite direction so to speak. Start very rich (say 3-4 turns out) and turn in until the idle just starts to go up (indicating it is starting to get leaner). Back out a 1/4 turn from there and your done.
That is an excellent technique, after doing this and you blip the throttle more than half will it quickly return to the steady idle?
It should. If anything, this technique will leave you a little rich, so the focus should be more on whether the engine responds immediately when you blip the throttle in the first place.
So when your turning it in from 3-4 out the engine rpm should increase because its getting leaner correct and then once it starts to rise 1/4 turn back out to put it in a safe zone.
I gotta try this for sure.
Molto Verboso
79 P200E, 62 Allstate, 2008 Stella
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1989
Location: Florence, OR
Sun Sep 20, 2020 12:39 pm quote
I had to run a couple of "errands" so of course I took B62 on another little run. I was hitting a little lean or flat spot around 1/2 throttle, and I don't have the drill bits to drill out the pilot, so I stuck the 38-120 back in.

I started out 4 turns and turned it in a turn or two, (in 1/4 turn intervals) until, sure enough, the idle wanted to raise a bit. Then I backed it off and started running it like that. It's super sweet. Still a slight rough patch down low but wow, what an improvement.

So Kimono - I pulled over and turned on the GPS cause I could feel a fast run coming up. I'm such a sucker for being double-dog dared!

Screenshot_20200920-131755_DigiHUD.jpg
Reminds me of the song "Hot Rod Lincoln". heh heh

Addicted
2010 S50 Modified "Punkin"; 2003 ET4 Malossi 187 "ISO"
Joined: 18 Feb 2017
Posts: 671
Location: Deepinnaharta, Texas
Sun Sep 20, 2020 12:44 pm quote
Greetings:

WHoa! 64 MPH on a 1962?!
Be careful how you use it.
Jet Eye Master
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2602
Location: London UK
Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:33 pm quote
Flat spot at 1/2. That's a bit worrying. Did you ever change the BE3 for s BE5? Might also explain the difficulty with the pilot.
If doing 64mph without incident, the main jet is about right.
Molto Verboso
79 P200E, 62 Allstate, 2008 Stella
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1989
Location: Florence, OR
Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:46 pm quote
Yes Jack, it's a BE5. I don't know if it's a flat spot or it's slowly revving up and reaches the point where it's not working to get to that speed and just flattens out for a sec.

I know the 40-130 pilot was way lean so I'm just assuming what I ran into at half throttle is attributed to that. I do know the 38-120 feels way better and I'll run with this for a while. It's not like I'm taking it on any half hour WOT runs. If it is 15 secs at WOT I'd be surprised.

Thanks for your help Jack! I'm really pleased with this cylinder and the changes .
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