62 Allstate Cruisaire - getting it back on the road
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Enthusiast
P125x (P200 Motor)
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 68
Location: Alexandria, VA
Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:08 pm quote
Sjanuary wrote:
Not automatic is 100% correct. Your better off spending just a bit more money and buying a welder with the ability to use a regulator and a gas. Welds are much nicer and cleaner....and you can weld inside...so during the snow months you can still fabricate. Scott
I have this one, and it is a HUGE improvement over the flux only welder. At 110V it is easy to use and not burn through thinner metal.

https://www.eastwood.com/mig-welder-110vac-135a-output.html




HF cart for $39 on sale.
https://www.harborfreight.com/welding-cart-61316.html

Make sure you get an autodarkening helmet too. Makes a LOT of difference.

HF has inexpensive ones to start.
https://www.harborfreight.com/blue-design-auto-darkening-welding-helmet-61610.html
Hooked
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 349
Location: california
Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:44 pm quote
Oh lord - these responses caused a chuckle.
I didn't mean to cause a debate worthy of which 177 cylinder kit is best...

Just to clarify:
The two machines I recommended are flux core - but they are also MIG.
"No fancy gas tanks needed - until you wanna add them for making super pretty "mig" welds.
Big box stores carry the Lincoln - I have one and its pretty awesome.
Hobart is also a top brand - but their 120V wire machine won't do aluminum for when you graduate to that."

Probably should have made a bit more clear.
Expert's I read prior to buying suggested these machines for easy learning - and ability to graduate to pretty welding/ weld outside when you wanna.
So far - the easy learning part has held up.
I'm personally looking forward to graduating to the super pretty MIG, now that I am getting a handle on it with flux - and I like that I can work outside as well as in.

Can't wait to see the center stand fixed.
Keep us posted!
Enthusiast
Joined: 02 Feb 2019
Posts: 78

Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:54 pm quote
charlieman22 wrote:
Oh lord - these responses caused a chuckle.
I didn't mean to cause a debate worthy of which 177 cylinder kit is best...

Just to clarify:
The two machines I recommended are flux core - but they are also MIG.
"No fancy gas tanks needed - until you wanna add them for making super pretty "mig" welds.
Big box stores carry the Lincoln - I have one and its pretty awesome.
Hobart is also a top brand - but their 120V wire machine won't do aluminum for when you graduate to that."

Probably should have made a bit more clear.
Expert's I read prior to buying suggested these machines for easy learning - and ability to graduate to pretty welding/ weld outside when you wanna.
So far - the easy learning part has held up.
I'm personally looking forward to graduating to the super pretty MIG, now that I am getting a handle on it with flux - and I like that I can work outside as well as in.

Can't wait to see the center stand fixed.
Keep us posted!
It's not just a question of whether it is "pretty" or not. It's about using the correct process for what you're doing, to achieve a good result. I do have a welding certification so I'm not just talking crap.

Harbor Freight has stepped up their game in the welding department. Their Vulcan line has received great reviews for the home/hobbyist welder.
Enthusiast
P125x (P200 Motor)
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 68
Location: Alexandria, VA
Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:40 pm quote
charlieman22 wrote:
Oh lord - these responses caused a chuckle.
I didn't mean to cause a debate worthy of which 177 cylinder kit is best...

Just to clarify:
The two machines I recommended are flux core - but they are also MIG.
"No fancy gas tanks needed - until you wanna add them for making super pretty "mig" welds.
Big box stores carry the Lincoln - I have one and its pretty awesome.
Hobart is also a top brand - but their 120V wire machine won't do aluminum for when you graduate to that."

Probably should have made a bit more clear.
Expert's I read prior to buying suggested these machines for easy learning - and ability to graduate to pretty welding/ weld outside when you wanna.
So far - the easy learning part has held up.
I'm personally looking forward to graduating to the super pretty MIG, now that I am getting a handle on it with flux - and I like that I can work outside as well as in.

Can't wait to see the center stand fixed.
Keep us posted!
I spent 3 years learning flux core. In 20 minutes I tripled my capability with Mig. Coincidentally, Mig is much prettier and better penetration, for me.
Hooked
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 349
Location: california
Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:45 pm quote
Well - you won't find me arguing about better penetration.
Hooked
1955 Allstate 1958 lambretta 1965 Allstate 1968 sprint
Joined: 20 Jul 2017
Posts: 274
Location: Central california
Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:15 pm quote
Welders
Do your homework...not all 110v welders have the capacity to utilize a regulator. So basically you have a flux-core welder only. So there is no graduation to the next level. Spend a little more and buy a welder with the capabilities of running a regulator/gas. The welds are much cleaner.
Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1373

Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:49 pm quote
I'm not a professional welder, but i play one on the internet...
Ossessionato
1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 4595
Location: So Cal
Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:47 am quote
Sjanuary wrote:
Do your homework...not all 110v welders have the capacity to utilize a regulator. So basically you have a flux-core welder only. So there is no graduation to the next level. Spend a little more and buy a welder with the capabilities of running a regulator/gas. The welds are much cleaner.
So what model/brand do you recommend for the kind of occasional home garage welding we do on these bikes, Scott?
Addicted
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 501
Location: Staten Island, NY
Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:33 am quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
Sjanuary wrote:
Do your homework...not all 110v welders have the capacity to utilize a regulator. So basically you have a flux-core welder only. So there is no graduation to the next level. Spend a little more and buy a welder with the capabilities of running a regulator/gas. The welds are much cleaner.
So what model/brand do you recommend for the kind of occasional home garage welding we do on these bikes, Scott?
Yes I am also curious. I did welding in art school 18 yrs ago with stick welding and cutting with acetylene torches of thicker pieces of steel for sculpture projects and have wanted to get something affordable to do small welding jobs in my garage since. But I have no idea which is the best for basic steel with hopefully some minimal aluminum welding of smaller thicknesses.
Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1373

Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:12 am quote
swiss1939 wrote:
SoCalGuy wrote:
Sjanuary wrote:
Do your homework...not all 110v welders have the capacity to utilize a regulator. So basically you have a flux-core welder only. So there is no graduation to the next level. Spend a little more and buy a welder with the capabilities of running a regulator/gas. The welds are much cleaner.
So what model/brand do you recommend for the kind of occasional home garage welding we do on these bikes, Scott?
Yes I am also curious. I did welding in art school 18 yrs ago with stick welding and cutting with acetylene torches of thicker pieces of steel for sculpture projects and have wanted to get something affordable to do small welding jobs in my garage since. But I have no idea which is the best for basic steel with hopefully some minimal aluminum welding of smaller thicknesses.
Though most those little 110v machines are advertised as being capable of welding aluminum, in reality is doesn't really work. Aluminum wire is so soft, that it will bunch up in the drive feed rollers. That's why if you want to wire feed aluminum, you'll want to use a spool gun. Maybe someone else will know better, but I'm not aware of any 110v machines that are spool gun capable.

Another FTI, the welders that are found at big warehouse department stores (Homo Depo, Lowes, ect...) will be a little different (as in lower quality) when compared to buying it at an actual welding shop. I like Lincoln for the little welders (Miller has good stuff too). For 220v, I've used a couple different Miller welders. I love my big Esab 260 for anything over about an 1/8". My little Lincoln 110 does 1/8" just fine (and some 3/16" as well), but my Esab lays down real nice welds anything about above that, plus it has an aluminum spool gun.

You almost need two (or three if you want to TIG as well) welders so that all your bases are covered.
Hooked
1955 Allstate 1958 lambretta 1965 Allstate 1968 sprint
Joined: 20 Jul 2017
Posts: 274
Location: Central california
Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:49 pm quote
Back on the road....
Well socalguy whodatschrome said it pretty good. I will add a couple of points. I would say if your going to weld on scooters (steel) a small 110v welders work pretty good. I would strongly suggest using the welder with a regulator and gas. The welds produced are typically much cleaner than using flux core welding rod. Flux core rod is used in the out doors, smokes really bad.
If your in the market for a small welder I would expect that it would set you back 500.00 give or take some. That would include the regulator tank and a gas mixture of 75/25. 75% carbon dioxide 25/argon.
Welding Aluminum is a whole different animal. Probably one of the tougher types of welding if your a beginner welder. If youve ever seen an Aluminum case that has been welded....more than likely it was TIG welded with a TIG welder. Very pricey welders 5000-7500 range.
Production welding Aluminum can also be done using a good quality MIG welder, with an Aluminum spool gun plugged into the front of the MIG welder. Again an expensive set up.....
Hope this adds to what whodatschrome has already stated. Scott
Hooked
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 349
Location: california
Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:21 pm quote
Since I had won the internet reading up on it - from a novices point of view - was trying to share what I had learned.
Had no idea I was gonna make this mess in Qascooters kitchen.
Sorry 'bout that.
Swear we will clean up.

The lincoln I recommended
It's MIG, its Flux Core, It has an aluminum spool gun option, it runs on 110 but is available in as high an amperage as offered by any.
The points you guys made were actually the same reasons I suggested it as a solution.
Noted you are not fans of the messy flux core - but it is so simple for us first timers - so we learn there and graduate without compromise, on the same machine.
WDC is right - the big box store version has presets rather than fully attenuating power settings - though the presets are numerous and easy so pretty good.
Thus the same model 140 from a welder shop would likely be a little nicer than the 140 model at Lowes for example.


Qascooter - Please lord post some images of your beautiful bike!
And let us know what we owe for trashing the place.
Hooked
1955 Allstate 1958 lambretta 1965 Allstate 1968 sprint
Joined: 20 Jul 2017
Posts: 274
Location: Central california
Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:32 pm quote
Back on the road
Im with Charlie man 22 sorry for heading in a different direction. Pm me if your in the market for a welder. I always have a couple extra welders around. More than happy to send you one. Scott
Addicted
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 501
Location: Staten Island, NY
Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:36 pm quote
My bad. back to the topic.
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1041
Location: Florence, OR
Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:57 pm quote
Welding
Well, I've learned a lot about welding!

So, I'm on a fixed budget (and I'm a cheap bastard to boot, wait, I mean frugal and resourceful). I bought a HF 125Amp 110v flux core welder.

I hear the moans and groans. And I'm moaning and groaning with you. All the talk on the welders has made me wish I would've just brought the part to Jack Smoot, the local welder in town. But it's hard for me to leave the house for more than a 1/2 hour at a crack. Why, you may ask? Well, I'm living a pretty trippy reality right now. Let's leave it at that...

So back to welding. I layed down a couple of practice beads and welded some bed rail together for a half hour or so and damn, not bad. At this point in time I should have practiced more, but I didn't.

I grabbed the bracket and went for it. I only had to cut it off and try again once. Dooohhh. I realize it's a super crappy weld, but it'll do and I put it through a highly technical stress test in the vice to ensure it was strong enough to hold up the scooter and a person bouncing on it.

I was really hoping I could just ignore the whole thing and not post a picture but y'all are relentless! Every friggen post was about welding! Arrrrgggghhhh! Ha! Nahh, it's all good information and I learned a lot. And I may take you up on your offer at some point Scott about buying one of your many welders.

OK, without further adeu, here are a few pics. Again, I know the weld sucks!

20190607_133854.jpg

20190607_133908.jpg
Closeup. It's not pretty, but it is solid.

20190607_134012.jpg
The brackets fit nicely and it all lines up.

Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1041
Location: Florence, OR
Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:39 pm quote
Cleaning it up
While I'm waiting for some basic parts and the tank to de-rust I figured I'd clean the body up a bit.

Someone had used a piece of cowl rubber from the bottom of the left glove box and made a gasket for the tail light. I was wondering why when I took off the left cowl it was missing rubber!

So essentially I went over the whole bike fairly quickly with rubbing compound, then coated it with #7 to soak in. And I banged out a couple of fairly good dents just above the tail light assembly.

Somewhere in there I also scrubbed the rear wheel well to get most of the crap out of there.

I'm also debating on keeping the club sticker that is on the inside left legshield. What do you think?

20190607_145827.jpg
I forgot to take a before pic of the dent. I got most of it out!

20190607_151623.jpg
Before rubbing compound

20190607_160916.jpg
After

20190607_153833.jpg
Before

20190607_161014.jpg
After

20190607_174246.jpg
Slathering on the #7 over all the area I rubbed down with the rubbing compound

20190607_174333.jpg
The rubbing compound I've been using

20190607_183540.jpg
So should I keep the club sticker? I'm on the fence about it. It is part of the scooter's history....

Ossessionato
1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 4595
Location: So Cal
Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:46 pm quote
Id definitely keep the sticker
Hooked
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 349
Location: california
Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:04 pm quote
Quote:
OK, without further adeu, here are a few pics. Again, I know the weld sucks!
Quote:
I only had to cut it off and try again once. Dooohhh.
Hahaha. How else are you really gonna know how well you did?

Standing ovation
Hooked
1955 Allstate 1958 lambretta 1965 Allstate 1968 sprint
Joined: 20 Jul 2017
Posts: 274
Location: Central california
Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:22 pm quote
Back on th road
Well gascooter...Im not a big fan of flux core welding, but I have to say that is a pretty good job. As they say practice makes perfect. You can do a lot with a flux core welder on a scooter, because the pieces are relatively small/thin. Keep up the good work. I was going to send you a welder....no charge.....so you could fix your stand and whatever things you want to weld. Sounds as if you bought one already. Have fun with it..scott
Enthusiast
P125x (P200 Motor)
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 68
Location: Alexandria, VA
Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:23 pm quote
Not bad for a new welder. The grinder hides all manor of ills!
Enthusiast
Joined: 02 Feb 2019
Posts: 78

Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:40 pm quote
JimVonBaden wrote:
Not bad for a new welder. The grinder hides all manor of ills!
Looks are deceiving. Time will tell, if it's taking any stress.
Just because it "looks good" doesn't mean shit, actually.

But props for taking the initiative.
Enthusiast
P125x (P200 Motor)
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 68
Location: Alexandria, VA
Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:10 am quote
NotAutomatic wrote:
JimVonBaden wrote:
Not bad for a new welder. The grinder hides all manor of ills!
Looks are deceiving. Time will tell, if it's taking any stress.
Just because it "looks good" doesn't mean shit, actually.

But props for taking the initiative.
True, though it looks good, you can usually tell if there was little penetration. The hammer test is usually sufficient for this kind of weld IMHO.
Hooked
Honda elite
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 416
Location: California
Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:21 am quote
looking good
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1041
Location: Florence, OR
Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:03 am quote
Thanks guys. And Scott, thank you for the kind offer. I'm still bummed I bought what I did, but those dang 25% off sales....

So a few parts come in tomorrow. Woohoo. I'll empty and rinse the tank later today, and coat it with some oil and gas in preparation for tomorrow.

I've been wire brushing all the nuts and bolts, some I've soaked in vinegar, but all I've been cleaning with a tap and die. I must say, it is making everything feel so smooth. So before I put anything back together, I'm ensuring it's cleaned up fairly well.

The tail light assembly: I polished the lenses, polished whatever paint is left on it, and cleaned all the contacts and put it back together. One of the connectors was broken off so I re-soldered it and cleaned those connectors also. And remounted the license plate holder.

20190608_173004.jpg
Chasing all threads with a tap & die set, and generally cleaning up all nuts and bolts before reassembly

20190608_173546.jpg
Re-soldered one of the connection tabs for the rear light

20190608_173702.jpg
Tail light assembly cleaned up and ready to go

20190608_174129.jpg
I remounted the door to the cowl glovebox. I cleaned up the pin and chase and greased it thoroughly, then installed.

Addicted
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 501
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:03 pm quote
Nice progress! Looking great.
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1041
Location: Florence, OR
Sun Jun 09, 2019 4:23 pm quote
Time to drain the vinegar out of the tank. Afterwards I'll put some fresh 2% in it and slosh it around to keep it from getting rusty.

20190609_140939.jpg
I wonder how it's going to look? I've been shaking the nuts and bolts a couple times a day. Hmmmm. So exiting! :-)

20190609_144627.jpg
Nice! Comparatively, it came out nice. This will work just fine. Time to rinse it out with soap and water, then slosh some 2% in there.

20190603_142910.jpg
For comparison, this is what it looked like. I'd say the vinegar for 4 days was a success!

Hooked
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 349
Location: california
Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:06 pm quote
Success!
Did same - but wasn't as smart - used gas.
Was misserable - high for a week.
Gonna be a happy scoot.
- CM
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1197
Location: London UK
Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:24 pm quote
Amazed how well that vinegar works. Scooter is looking good. New legsheild trim and missing floor runners will finish it off nicely.
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1041
Location: Florence, OR
Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:53 pm quote
Dang CM, I could feel the gas high, then the headache from here! Ha!

And thank's Jack. Yes, new trim and floor runners And it'll be looking sweet. I'm going to get it on the road, then update the front end, 12v wiring system, CDI, 177 kit, 4 speed, geared for 8" tires, bench seat (I'm 6'3"). I don't know how to do any of that - yet - but will learn as I go. With everyone's help here of course.

First things first - get it running. And talk with David at ScooterMercato for a big-ass order.
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1197
Location: London UK
Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:54 pm quote
And I thought you were going to do a stock restore. Now this is getting more interesting.

Depending on what cases you have options of 177 kit change. Will need to take the cylinder off to check. Be sure to get a variable timing ignition version of the 12V set up. There is no downside to this.

How did the performance of the white 200 work out? Not sure you ever said.
modernvespa.com/forum/topic163434
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1041
Location: Florence, OR
Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:11 pm quote
Jack221 wrote:
How did the white 200 work out? Not sure you ever said.
The White P200 is running great. Again, thanks for all your help!! I'm using it daily to run errands on and putting some miles on it while I'm waiting for the title to come in. Soon as the title is in my hands, I'll put it up for sale.

Performance wise, it seems to have a different power band than the Burgundy stock P200 with a 24/24. The Burgundy seems faster off the line. This one has a 20/20. Top speed though - it's close. I haven't ran them out on the same road with the phone GPS to see. I should probably do that. It is solid, and that was the main concern.

After I get the blue 62 fired up, I'm going to put the White P on the table and check the torque on the head bolts and just give it a good look over to ensure it's good to go to a new owner.

And I plan on keeping the blue 62 so I want to make it into a strong runner. It should be fun.

20190602_154640_resized.jpg
Using it daily - Running sweet!

Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1197
Location: London UK
Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:32 pm quote
Your first engine split is working out pretty well then (CM )

Not surprising the 20/20 feels a little less impressive. To give it a fair crack, it should have a review of the jetting. With the work done it will need to be slightly richer than stock on pilot and main.
Next time you've had a long fast run, take a picture of the plug.
Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:29 am
NotAutomatic has been ejected from this topic
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1041
Location: Florence, OR
Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:05 pm quote
Wooohoooo!
It's rolling! I installed the new fuel tap, fuel line, rebuilt the carb, installed everything, and it almost started on the 3rd kick. So the 4th kick I filmed it. Then I took it for a little spin. I'm stoked.



Last edited by qascooter on Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
Addicted
GL, PK, PE200
Joined: 24 Apr 2012
Posts: 567
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:34 pm quote


Good to see!
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1041
Location: Florence, OR
Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:59 pm quote
Thanks Rowdy. And your sidecar rig - that thing is badass! I love how you've put it all together. Looks fantastic.
Ossessionato
1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 4595
Location: So Cal
Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:34 am quote
Great vid qa... your enthusiasm for these old machines is a hoot. Keep it up!
Hooked
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 349
Location: california
Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:04 pm quote
Dude, just clicked on the vids.
"Hoooh hoo! Score! It's running!"

Put a big ass smile ear to ear on my face.

Tks!
Hooked
Honda elite
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 416
Location: California
Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:50 pm quote
Dude awesome thanks for the video
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1041
Location: Florence, OR
Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:28 am quote
Thanks guys! My wife posted this on her FB page along with the vid.

"My husband just texted me this. Do I cheer that he got his Blue '62 running after only 2 weeks? Or scream because it shows no helmet and filming while driving? 🛵🎉⚠️😲😍"


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