62 Allstate Cruisaire - getting it back on the road
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7423
Location: seattle/athens
Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:00 pm quote
qascooter wrote:
...
And as far as my handle. In another life I used to be in the Quality Assurance field (Software Test Engineer actually). I couldn't think of what to make my handle, so I just put in QAScooter. Little did I know that I'd never be able to modify it - EVER! So there you have it!
Apt
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1333
Location: Florence, OR
Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:42 pm quote
Gosh Voodoo - thanks.

So I got all the cables replaced and just need to make that dang speedo mount. Revision A, or the prototype didn't work, because of the shifter and throttle wires banged into the mount, and I couldn't attach the clamshell headset. Rev. B is going to work perfectly. Well, that's the theory anyway.

SpeedoBracket.jpg
I found this on the net, when I was trying to find the type of mount I needed to secure the speedo in the clamshell headset.

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So I made this out of a piece of aluminum threshold I had laying around

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Unfortunately it doesn't fit properly, and the throttle and shifter tubes get in the way.

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Here are the cables that are being replaced.

Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1333
Location: Florence, OR
Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:33 am quote
I got the speedo mount made. Third times a charm. I used an old piece of garage door opener angle iron and it holds the speedo in and clears the cables nicely. Now all I need is the gears at the lower end and I'll be able to tell how slow I'm going. Ha!

I did get back on the road and went through the neighborhood, making sure the cables are working properly. Under heavy load 2nd wants to jerk a bit. Now that I'm typing this, I think it's the clutch slipping. I've got some serious inclines in the neighborhood.

Regardless, when the rain stops I'll take her into town for a cruise.

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The angle iron I used, Rev B, and Rev C (final version) holding in the speedo!

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This is looking in where the headlight goes. You can see the speedo and the new mount clear the throttle and shifter tubes

Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1333
Location: Florence, OR
Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:02 pm quote
Maiden Voyage
Today was the official day I took B62 for a ride through town. She ran fantastic - still sounds like a box of rocks when the revs are low, but rode wonderfully. I stopped a few times and went down to the boardwalk for some fresh picked fruit. I also took it out for about two miles of WOT on flatland. I didn't have my phone so I don't know how fast I was going. No matter.

Now I feel comfortable riding her into town (which consists of going over the bridge) so I can use it for running errands and the like. I'm super stoked!!!!

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The local fruit stand

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The harbor and boardwalk

Hooked
'77 150 Super (PT Danmotor), '64 VBBs (Shriners + project), 1970s BMW R75/6, Bultaco Alpina trials, Lammy J50 Special
Joined: 01 Apr 2017
Posts: 158
Location: Western Mass., USA
Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:04 pm quote
Congrats on the maiden run in town on B62 -- that's a great feeling, and the bike is looking sweet. I really dig the seat.

I like the way you've secured your shopping bag, too. I often use my '64 VBB as a grocery getter, but mostly I pick up only what I can fit into the left side cowl box (which is a lot!).
Addicted
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 758
Location: california
Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:36 pm quote
Fantastic - as long as your wife/girlfriend/both don't mind the breeze coming under the door from the missing threshold, or the now defunct garage door, all is well.

Damn it looks good. Kinda like the scuff on motor side cowl - like a scar on a solid jaw line.

Someone's gonna need a disc brake/shock/ and a cyl kit?
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1333
Location: Florence, OR
Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:23 am quote
Thanks ZZ - yeah, the ole bag on the bars trick - holds a fair amount, along with the side cowl.
charlieman22 wrote:
Someone's gonna need a disc brake/shock/ and a cyl kit?
And Thanks CM - I like the scars too. I've got plenty - a little character. As far as engine/brakes/shocks - I've been giving this lots of thought after yesterdays ride.

First off, its a VA11T (Allstate) or a VNB1T (Vespa). Engine number VNB2M 077208. It doesn't look like it's ever been opened. And I'm almost positive it's a 2 port because the exhaust mounting bolt doesn't go through the swingarm.

There are many ways I can go with this beauty. I want to go the best bang for the buck, unless there's a better way.

There is WhoDat's way: 10" conversion/p200/semi disc brake. I want to keep the 8's though.

There is Hodge's way: 2 port 150cc, 20/20 carb (thx Voodoo!), p125x performance exhaust. This keeps the 3 speed intact, just wakes it up. Inexpensive - I like this fact.

There is the 177cc kits, weld, or JBWeld the cases, cut a third port, new crank (may need one anyway if it's a bushing type, which it probably is...).

One other option: buy a 150cc, 3 port, add kit, and modify gearing to suit.

I'm researching past threads of everyone's to see which way I want to go. Actually, read for hours last night. Regardless, I do know I want the 12v conversion - variable timing and reliable lighting.

Suspension/brakes wise, I want to put an adjustable shock on the back, and add a shock to the front, and maybe a stiffer spring. I don't know what that looks like yet though. New hub and weld tab on the fork, or whole new fork with hub.

And as far as exhausts - I'll probably bang in the side so I don't scrape it or do like the magical Voodoo and shorten the neck and redrill the mounting point to tuck it up under a bit more.

If y'all have any links I should read, please add them here. I'd love to read them and glean whatever I can. But I'm kinda thick, so there is no way I can sponge this up like CM. It takes me much, much longer to process.
Enthusiast
1979 Vespa P200E, 1965 Allstate
Joined: 19 Jan 2016
Posts: 64
Location: Claremont, CA
Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:36 am quote
I bought a NOS TS pipe from Bar Italia in Los Angeles for my '65 Allstate. The owner, Kristian, recommended it and I've had no ground clearance problems. It already had a 150 top end at that time. Since then I've gone with a Pinasco 2-port 177 kit and 20/20 carb. It seems as fast as my P200 with a Pinasco 215 kit. Although mine is a 4-speed.
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1333
Location: Florence, OR
Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:13 pm quote
memtnbike wrote:
I bought a NOS TS pipe from Bar Italia in Los Angeles for my '65 Allstate. The owner, Kristian, recommended it and I've had no ground clearance problems. It already had a 150 top end at that time. Since then I've gone with a Pinasco 2-port 177 kit and 20/20 carb. It seems as fast as my P200 with a Pinasco 215 kit. Although mine is a 4-speed.
Thanks for the info MeMtnBike! I appreciate it.
Addicted
GL, PK, PE200, Rustbadge
Joined: 24 Apr 2012
Posts: 718
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:18 am quote
qascooter wrote:
This is turning into the seat thread! I like the coke bottle outline, and Blue's seat. I want to duplicate a seat like that for B-62. Ruby's seat is perfect! I'm actually more comfortable without the hump in the middle of the seat where the two sets of springs attach because I naturally want to sit right in the middle of the seat - on the bump. But for B-62, I'm all into the look of the seat!

I agree, the springs are comfy, but only if I'm sitting in front of, or behind the middle of the seat. And yes, I can slide back far enough to ride with my butt in the back of the seat - especially when I'm practicing for the high speed salt flats run.

And here is another fun tidbit - I ride a bicycle so my butt is accustomed to uncomfortable seating arrangements. I rode 150 miles last weekend on Ruby's foam on a board saddle and was just fine.

BTW - Rowdy now has the king and queen saddle from the White P in the last pic! It's on his sidecar rig and looks fantastic!
Great work on the scooter Scott. You've done a fantastic job.

I'm enjoying that seat, too. I'm short enough that it fits me fine. BTW, here's an original seat that should go well with your blue scooter, Scott. He says its for an widebody 60's vespa but there were no wide body vespas in the 60's. The seat latch looks like the same for a regular large frame. I'm sure you can do some nice needle work to this seat to get it back to original.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=3379624122055588&set=g.1594110997469452&type=1&ifg=1

oldie seat.jpg

Member
Vespa 152l2
Joined: 04 Dec 2018
Posts: 17
Location: location
Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:43 am quote
Engine options
I have opted for the following:

A 24/63 primary drive gear combination
A late PX150EFL standard gearbox
A 3.50 x 8 rear tire size
Scootopia big bore exhaust

New crank, piston and barrel. 12 vBMG 120 stator and a BGM wiring loom.

I got this information using this:

https://www.scooterhelp.com/cgi-bin/vespa.gear.calc.pl

Not cheap, but a good and reliable upgrade. 12v with very bright lights.
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1333
Location: Florence, OR
Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:05 am quote
Thanks for the kind words and encouragement Rowdy! And the seat link. I've got a frame on it's way to me from V oodoo via WhoDat. Now to get it from Portland to Florence. I'll happen.

And thank you for explaining your setup TimtheMod. It's very much appreciated and I'll check out Scooterhelp pertaining to gear ratios....
Ossessionato
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 3335
Location: pacifica,ca.
Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:48 am quote
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1333
Location: Florence, OR
Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:42 pm quote
No Spark
Thank you Auntie!

So I couldn't get B-62 started. Finally pulled the plug and it was nice and wet so it's not fuel related. So here's what I did....

1) Put the plug against the case and kicked it over a bunch. No spark...
2) Pulled the Flywheel and replaced the condensor. It's a pain in the ass, you've got to remove the stator and resnake the wires through the case. Well, not that much of a pain in the ass, but kind of.
3) Read about static timing in the original manual, and here: https://www.scooterhelp.com/tips/timing/points.timing.html
4) Set up the timing wheel and figured out where TDC was then 26 degrees BTDC and marked it on the flywheel.
5) The only problem is the flywheel doesn't have holes in it so you can adjust the points. I had to remove the flywheel outer, so I just removed it after I had it in position.
6) Then I set the points - they were almost closed - way below the .011 to .019 range. I set it at .017
7) Put the flywheel back on and grounded the plug and gave it a gentle kick.
Spark! Yesyesyes! Back in business.

So now I'm putting the shroud back on and putting away the tools. I ran out of time tonight to do all that so I'll finish up tomorrow. Then we'll see if I got the timing and points set properly.

I did a lousy job on the picture front, so if you have any questions on how I did anything, just ask.

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Setting the timing wire.

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So this is actually 26 degrees BTDC. I pulled the flywheel and set the points with the feeler gauge. No pic though. Dooohhh!

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I checked the compression and am getting 80psi. Not bad, but not what I'd like. What do I expect, the engine doesns't look like it's ever been opened.



Last edited by qascooter on Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7423
Location: seattle/athens
Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:07 pm quote
1. You have PM in a few minutes about the other stuff. Cliff's: Quick set of new rings gapped right, honing the bore good removing most of the mess & leaving a nice crosshatch. Alert: can work wonders or make little difference but it is cheap. And no motor pulling to get the cylinder off

2. "2) Pulled the Flywheel and replaced the distributor. It's a pain in the ass, you've got to remove the stator and resnake the wires through the case. Well, not that much of a pain in the ass, but kind of."

How cool is that? You have one of those fantastically rare old nearly unknown Vespas that came w/ a distributor. Trust, but verify when in doubt, so you got any pics?
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1333
Location: Florence, OR
Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:11 pm quote
V oodoo wrote:
How cool is that? You have one of those fantastically rare old nearly unknown Vespas that came w/ a distributor. Trust, but verify when in doubt, so you got any pics?
Condensor - Hahaha. I'm tired...I fixed it...

And thanks for that. I may just do the quick hone, and rings. Can't hurt. But I may be putting in that 150cc cylinder soon, so......
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1333
Location: Florence, OR
Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:21 pm quote
Running!
So with the new condenser, I got the engine started. It took a while and some bump-starting to finally get it to run. Which is how it was before.

I put the timing light on it and ... nothing ... Timing light isn't working, so I made a static light to time it.

The static timing light is basically a bulb that goes bright or dim depending on if the points are closed or opened. I got the diagram from these instructions: https://www.scooterhelp.com/tips/timing/points.timing.html.

After I hooked it up everything was wonky. Nothing lined up - huh?!? So I went back to the beginning and found TDC. Turns out I was 5 degrees off with that!

Then the next bone-headed maneuver was that I made marks on the flywheel not the case. No big deal except when you go to mark the 26 degree BTDC mark. I read Counter Clockwise, but if the marks are on the flywheel, they need to be marked Clockwise.

Now that I set the timing marks correct I proceed to move the stator clockwise or counterclockwise and see what the static tester did. After three or four moves I got the light to go jusdimt when the timing mark hit 26 degrees BTDC. 26 is what the timing wheel specifies.

And it turns out the timing initially was pretty far off! more like 18 degrees. The stator used to be over to one end of the the adjustment and now it's about in the middle of it's adjustment range I didn't get to start it up tonight because I ran out of time. But tomorrow I'm hoping that it's going to kick over easily, now that the timing is more in line... One can always choose to be optimistic.

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The newly marked TDC and 26 degrees BTDC on the flywheel

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What the light looks like at TDC

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The light changes at exactly 26 degrees BTDC

Ossessionato
1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 4916
Location: So Cal
Sat Sep 28, 2019 5:36 am quote
Quote:
Then the next bone-headed maneuver was that I made marks on the flywheel not the case. No big deal except when you go to mark the 26 degree BTDC mark. I read Counter Clockwise, but if the marks are on the flywheel, they need to be marked Clockwise.
You werenít the first to make that goof, and wonít be the last.

Itís kind of a glass half full glass half empty thing. I personally mark TDC on the flywheel and put the timing mark CC from TDC on the case. But it works either way as long as you get the direction right.

And in a pinch you can use the fins to get in the ballpark ... 360/16 = 22.5į!

Glad you got it sorted.
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1333
Location: Florence, OR
Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:31 am quote
Thanks SoCal. I felt like Chris Farley on SNL when he was interviewing Paul McCartney - Stupid, stupid!!!!

So it starts up much easier now, and sounds better too. Like a small bag of rocks and not a big bag of rocks! Haha. I wonder if the timing being off at 16~18 degrees instead of the prescribed 26 degrees had an effect on frying the condenser. Also the points being adjusted far below the .011 described.

Regardless, Now that I've got the points and timing set, I'm going to ride it around this way (in between the rain spells) and see how it does. And when it's raining for a spell, I'll take the head and cylinder off and inspect.
Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1206

Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:39 am quote
Re: Paint
qascooter wrote:
I'm so stoked! I painted the inside of the glovebox cowl, the rims, and the hubs, and the gas tank (below the rim). The new gravity fed paint sprayer was a dream to use. Super easy, with some basic understanding and focused attention.

I watched a bunch of youtube vids (Eastwood company series was the best), then carved out a block of time this morning and went for it. I spent more time figuring the exact amount of hardener to add in and cleanup than the actual paint time.

Ron mixed up about 3/4 of a pint - about 12 ozs. I filled the little cup up (4 oz) of paint and added the hardener. Stirred it up, waited a few, stirred it up again, adjusted the gun and went for it. I only used two ounces of paint! So I practiced with a bunch of different settings for different scenarios. I even painted the fuel tank - where it sat - there is so little overspray!
Wow Scott , you are such an inspiration. Sjanuary recommended I come take a look see about your painting gun as I too will be wanting to do some painting as well. I started from the beginning and was so impressed you made it past the welding, I too just started into Mig welding and I'm totally enjoying it working on my little bodge. You sir have found a terrific little project and the way you jumped into painting and first looks is so impressive. I haven't came across the make or specifics yet , all I've picked up is you purchased the small touchup gun and took SoCalGuys suggestion for the adding hardener. Ok I'm going to read on, so stoaked here.
Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1206

Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:04 am quote
Re: Painting
qascooter wrote:
I bought a paint sprayer to spray the rims and inside cowl, and use it for whatever needs painting. I'm so glad I did. It was a treat to use. I've painted houses using house sprayers but this was all new, so essentially a nooby.

You can dial in just the right amount of paint and the right amount of surface coverage pretty easily on a big chunk of cardboard. And it is quick and efficient, with very little overspray.

I painted the inside of our patio cover with the large gun (1.4 tip) and the Vespa with the small gun (.8 tip). Amazing the 1.4 did a great job on the patio cover. Fun to dial in to get just the flow you need to lay down the paint.

This is the kit I got:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0046RDW3K/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
uh huh made it to your mentioning of gun and specifics.
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1333
Location: Florence, OR
Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:08 am quote
Thank you Lynn! But what you're doing, I'd never attempt! Replacing the floor?!? That takes some serious huevos......

As far as painting, it's all in the gun spray and practice without spraying anything, to get the distance and angle correct. At least that helped me when it came time to lay down the paint. And making painting sound effects too while you're practicing so you don't feel so lame. Ha!

Thanks again!
Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1206

Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:09 pm quote
qascooter wrote:
Thank you Lynn! But what you're doing, I'd never attempt! Replacing the floor?!? That takes some serious huevos......

As far as painting, it's all in the gun spray and practice without spraying anything, to get the distance and angle correct. At least that helped me when it came time to lay down the paint. And making painting sound effects too while you're practicing so you don't feel so lame. Ha!

Thanks again!
Iím just stubborn that way, doing the floor is for my own satisfaction, may even be a past mid life crisis thingy.

My next step now is to find a paint gun.
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