62 Allstate Cruisaire - getting it back on the road
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Hooked
1963 Allstate, 2005 Vespa PX150, 2001 Harley 95 ci Dyna
Joined: 06 May 2016
Posts: 300
Location: Central Ohio
Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:08 am quote
Do all of the swing arm assembly on your workbench. This includes installing the new sealed bearings, axle. brake shoes, brake drum, etc. Also connect the spring to the suspension spring axle. Then attach the fork to the assembled swing arm. Now slide up and attach the top of the spring to the upper bracket on the fork. Lastly, attach the new damper to the upper bracket which was welded to the fork. Leave the bottom of the damper unattached at this time.

Feed down through the fork the new speedo cable and attach it to the swing arm. Attach the front wheel. The fork can now be in-inserted back into the body and affixed with the upper nut. Make sure all the fork bearings are well lubricated and seat properly.

With the new fork and handle bar installed, remove the bike from the lift and have someone sit on it. They should apply the front brake and push the bike forward with hands on the handle grips. The front end will push down by this action. Another person at the front of the bike can then make sure the pins on the damper are aligned with the notches in the new swing arm. When they are aligned, then the damper can be attached to the swing arm and tightened down. I found this method to be much easier than trying to connect the bottom of the damper while the swing arm is on the bench. Some tension is put on the spring before the pins align and using the weight of the bike and downward pressure makes it rather easy.

When all is done, the front tire should be in perfect alignment with the bike.

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Spring attached to swing arm.

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Bottom of damper not installed on swing arm.

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Damper pin in notch on swing arm as damper is attached to the swing arm. This step is done after the front fork is installed.

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Perfect alignment of wheel.

Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1418
Location: Florence, OR
Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:21 am quote
Thanks for the tips RB! I'll be referring to your fork thread summary when ordering parts on Monday! Thanks again! Allstate Front Fork Modification – Summary and Cost Estimate

BTW, RB Prior went through the same thought process many of us have gone through. Replace spring, then upgrade the whole shebang. Here are his threads:

Allstate "Pogo Effect" Front End Improvement
Replace VBB Front Fork Spring with Stoffi Spring?
Allstate Front Fork Modification – Summary and Cost Estimate
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1418
Location: Florence, OR
Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:52 pm quote
Roller
So at the end of the fork there is a couple of races with a ton of little roller bearings. Does anybody know where I'm going with this? Well, while cleaning, I lost just one of those little f$%kers. I looked everywhere, on my hands and knees, with a magnet, etc...

So I thought I found it - then realized it wasn't the same. It's a Cush drive needle bearing I lost a long time ago. Dooohhhh!!!!

So now I've gotta buy a pack of roller bearings, unless my buddy Voodoo has a bucket or two of them laying around....
Style Maven
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special '66(?) Super125 + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7606
Location: seattle/athens
Sun Feb 09, 2020 6:45 pm quote
Doesn't that just ruin the whole "keep it original" experience for you? I know for two days or more lost while I obsessed over finding the ORIGINAL lower fork bearing dust shield on my 50 special that I so carefully removed and put where I was SURE not to lose it. FINALLY appeared nearby under the big tray that all of the parts are supposed to stay on top of, the sneaky little original thing

I can check if there could be a spare needle in my haystack, but don't hold your breath. That particular one could be as rare as unicorn poo. I recently had to locate a lone 1.8 mm needle for such a case. Idiotic to lose it, I have experience, but just try to forgive yourself and I'll find you a rare lone needle, I can almost certainly do that regardless.


Once I salvaged a couple that are still working fine from old auto U-joint bearing needles that I just had to shorten a little.


neatly bagged ones on the left are from Doc Morgan
bodgemaster
1963 GL, 1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5041
Location: So Cal
Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:30 pm quote
qascooter wrote:
So at the end of the fork there is a couple of races with a ton of little roller bearings. Does anybody know where I'm going with this? Well, while cleaning, I lost just one of those little f$%kers. I looked everywhere, on my hands and knees, with a magnet, etc...

So I thought I found it - then realized it wasn't the same. It's a Cush drive needle bearing I lost a long time ago. Dooohhhh!!!!

So now I've gotta buy a pack of roller bearings, unless my buddy Voodoo has a bucket or two of them laying around....
OK this is like some crazy Twilight Zone episode...

Literally the EXACT same thing happened to me last week as I was taking apart the front end of the GL.

Thirty-six needles supposedly dropped out and onto the floor of the garage, and after searching for an hour on my hands and knees with a magnet, I also managed to only find 35 - plus a couple from an old cush repair.

Gets even more bizarre ...

I also called Voodoo, and he’s also sending me a spare needle bearing from his stash. What are the odds?

And in case you haven’t discovered yet, the needles in the spring retainer bearing and needles in the fork pivot pin are different sizes. Gaaah!

0084CC5D-0C07-4067-824E-79F13C5E7E1C.jpeg

0084CC5D-0C07-4067-824E-79F13C5E7E1C.jpeg

Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2079

Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:13 pm quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
qascooter wrote:
So at the end of the fork there is a couple of races with a ton of little roller bearings. Does anybody know where I'm going with this? Well, while cleaning, I lost just one of those little f$%kers. I looked everywhere, on my hands and knees, with a magnet, etc...

So I thought I found it - then realized it wasn't the same. It's a Cush drive needle bearing I lost a long time ago. Dooohhhh!!!!

So now I've gotta buy a pack of roller bearings, unless my buddy Voodoo has a bucket or two of them laying around....
OK this is like some crazy Twilight Zone episode...
...and here is that Twilight Zone episode. www.youtube.com/watch?v=olPN5L2P-6Y&t=27s
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1418
Location: Florence, OR
Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:54 pm quote
Bwahhahahaa - good one WhoDat - The Universe is a very trippy place indeed. Maybe I was channeling you SCG, and just had to drop the bearing, and find one offsize bearing from last year - wait - what does your garage look like?!? Maybe it's an alternative time garage of Florence, Oregon???

One thing in common - our good buddy Voodoo! The TimeMaster Ha!
Hooked
1963 Allstate, 2005 Vespa PX150, 2001 Harley 95 ci Dyna
Joined: 06 May 2016
Posts: 300
Location: Central Ohio
Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:25 pm quote
I originally posted in this thread that I got my suspension front pivot pin from Scooter Mercato with the following information:

Suspension front pivot kit $25
http://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Pivot-Kits-and-Axles/O73677

After thinking about it, this pivot pin will not fit to the FA Italia swing arm. It has the threaded end and it will not work with the newer swing arms that will accommodate the damper. I can't recall where I got the one I used, it may have been part of the front fork I ordered from India and later trashed. I do recall using the new bearings as my old needle bearings fell out when I removed the original pivot pin from the front fork. The closest I found that would work unfortunately is from India, but I think this part would work okay. As I mentioned, I also used the new bearings and pressed them into my front fork. I hope this helps.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/BRAND-NEW-VESPA-FRONT-HUB-PIVOT-PIN-VBB-SPRINT-VLB-RALLY-JR/223784295934?epid=1531927840&hash=item341a955dfe:g:d4EAAOSwcV5d60za

As for the suspension spring axle, I did use a spacer washer and O-ring on each side of the spring attachment (see photo).

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Front suspension pin showing the notched end.

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Bottom view of the suspension spring axle showing the spacer washer and O-ring on each side of spring attachment/grease fitting part.

Enthusiast
1979 Vespa P200E, 1965 Allstate
Joined: 19 Jan 2016
Posts: 67
Location: Claremont, CA
Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:10 am quote
Regarding the leg shield trim, mine ends under the floor rail just like you did.
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1418
Location: Florence, OR
Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:52 pm quote
Thanks RB, and MeMtnBike! I'm leaving the trim alone. I like it tucked in.

So here is the gameplan. Brother T (Voodoo) is sending me down a complete front end from something that takes a damper - or it might be complete, but more complete than what's in my hands currently.

He's also sending down a couple of those Twilight Zone needle bearings that mysteriously disappeared from my garage and ended up on the floor of SoCal's shop floor.

After I get Brother T's package, I'm going to see what I got, and what I need, then place an order with Brother David (ScooterMercato) on what I need to complete this project. Then probably place another order cause there will be something that slips through the cracks of my mind. Even after writing out a list. Haha.

Then I'll weld the tab on the fork, paint said fork, and new swingarm, and put it all back together. And if the stars align, and the universe smiles my way, it'll go together as nicely as RB's.

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Pretty nice Original Paint on the fork!

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Needle bearing width

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Needle bearing length

Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1418
Location: Florence, OR
Thu Feb 20, 2020 4:58 pm quote
Special Delivery
I got a special delivery from Brother T (Voodoo - Thanks man!). A front swing arm that looked usable. Ultimately it doesn't look like it.

The spring and brake pin was a bit mushed by someone banging the crap out of it with a hammer, or I'm assuming it was with a hammer. I filed down the pin so I can get it out, but unfortunately the groove for the brake pin is squashed. I could grind out a new groove, but I think I'm going to just buy a new pin.

Upon closer inspection, there is a crack on the main bearing side of the swing arm. I'd use it if I had to, but I don't, so I'll use the Bajaj one brother T sent me a while ago.

I've got an order placed with ScooterMercato, and when all the parts come in, I'll get to welding, painting and reassemble.

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Banged up brake pin

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A little triflow to the rescue, and I filed the top of the pin so it'll fit through the swing arm

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And an aluminum rod. I'd rather flatten the crap out of the aluminum rod than the brake pin/shock rod

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The hairline crack

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And on the inside

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The Bajaj one cleaned up, sanded down and ready to paint, after I fill all the holes with rags so I don't get paint in them.

Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1376

Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:15 pm quote
Nice to see your progress.
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1418
Location: Florence, OR
Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:23 pm quote
Lynnb wrote:
Nice to see your progress.
Thanks Lynn - slow, but steady. Naah, just slow....
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4258
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:15 pm quote
but steady.....good man.
Hooked
1963 Allstate, 2005 Vespa PX150, 2001 Harley 95 ci Dyna
Joined: 06 May 2016
Posts: 300
Location: Central Ohio
Fri Feb 21, 2020 8:57 pm quote
Allstate Front Fork Swing Arms
While modifying my '63 Allstate front fork, I first tried an Indian front fork complete. The quality was terrible and the fork cracked when I pressed on the lower fork bearing race. My front fender would not fit as well nor would the fork install on the bike. The hole for the pivot axle was off center and presented a potential problem of a failure due to the stresses on this part of the swing arm. It was a disaster and the complete fork assembly went into the trash can. The seller sent me a bajaj swing arm to appease me and I tried to fit it to my modified original Allstate fork. It worked but it needed some machining to get a reasonable fit. Later while trying to press in sealed bearings, the swing arm broke into many parts. The quality was also not good. I then ordered the FA Italia swing arm and the quality was like night and day. The Fa Italia swing arm fit perfectly and installation was easy. I have no regrets using the Fa Italia swing arm.

My advice wouild be not to use the swing arm you have with the crack. This could be very hazardous. I would not paint the bajaj swing arm you have. Personally, I would think twice about using the bajaj swing arm. The quality just is not there. I could not put such poor quality on my classic Allstate. Don't comprise on this critical part of the front fork assembly and install a high quality swing arm.

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Complete Indian front fork assembly. Note the pivot hole is off center and could lead to a failure.

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Brake shoes that were installed on the Indian fork. They were terrible.

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Crack in the fork from pressing on the lower bearing race.

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Bajaj swing arm showing raised seams that need to be machined down before use.

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Bajaj swing are installed on '63 Allstate.

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Fa Italia swing arm. The superb quality is certainly evident.

Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1418
Location: Florence, OR
Sun Feb 23, 2020 11:56 am quote
Re: Allstate Front Fork Swing Arms
RB Prior wrote:
Personally, I would think twice about using the bajaj swing arm. The quality just is not there. I could not put such poor quality on my classic Allstate.
Dang it RB - here I am trying to save a buck. But you're totally right. The Bajaj swing arm didn't feel "right" as I was cleaning it up, so I'll just pony up and buy a FA Italia one.

Thanks for keeping me on the straight and narrow!
Hooked
1963 Allstate, 2005 Vespa PX150, 2001 Harley 95 ci Dyna
Joined: 06 May 2016
Posts: 300
Location: Central Ohio
Sun Feb 23, 2020 3:32 pm quote
Re: Allstate Front Fork Swing Arms
qascooter wrote:
RB Prior wrote:
Personally, I would think twice about using the bajaj swing arm. The quality just is not there. I could not put such poor quality on my classic Allstate.
Dang it RB - here I am trying to save a buck. But you're totally right. The Bajaj swing arm didn't feel "right" as I was cleaning it up, so I'll just pony up and buy a FA Italia one.

Thanks for keeping me on the straight and narrow!
Gascotter: I commend you for deciding to put a quality swing arm on your Allstate. This is a critical area and safety has to be the prime concern. I wish you well as you complete your project. The old Allstate Vespas are something to be cherished and your superb restoration is a excellent example on doing it properly. If I can be of help in modifying your front fork, please let me know.

Best regards.
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