62 Allstate Cruisaire - getting it back on the road
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Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1618
Location: Florence, OR
Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:25 pm quote
Well, I filed on the mozzarella and it came out pretty good! I'm still undecided if I'll use it or not.

RB, thanks for the details! The new needle bearings I received didn't have a ridge to stop the bearings so I pressed them all the way in flush. I didn't like that very much so I put my old bearings back in. Mine hold the bearings just fine while allowing the axle to be pushed through the bearing races.

I was short a bearing and Voodoo kindly supplied me with an assortment of needle bearings. None were the right length, but the right diameter, so I ground the end off to be the correct length.

The old swing arm distance, and the new swing arm distance are identical, after I ground off and filed the extra mozzarella. (That cracks me up Safis - I love it!)

Check it out!

20200308_170211_resized.jpg
Ground off the extra cheese, and voila - not bad!

20200308_165355_resized.jpg
Old bearings and races with new axle. Beautiful!

Molto Verboso
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 1535
Location: california
Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:56 pm quote
One thought.
Have David open up another one and have a look - shoot a pic - and send it.
You might find that the others he has in stock are either the same - or completely cleaned up back to the steel like yours and RB Prior's is now.
In other words - the issue may be poor deflashing of the casting material - rather than missing casted material. Might be worth a quick call and a pic.

BTW - for the flux core welders - my experience was that adding gas
(making it MIG) allowed for the welds to improve significantly - and those pictures on prior page pretty well look like the difference. And of course - practice... but going to MIG if your machine will allow is a nice upgrade.
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1618
Location: Florence, OR
Sun Mar 08, 2020 8:46 pm quote
charlieman22 wrote:
One thought. Have David open up another one and have a look - shoot a pic - and send it.
Thanks CM - this is exactly what David and I discussed via email. You never know what the others look like, and it could be more energy and effort for naught. We'll see Monday!
charlieman22 wrote:
BTW - for the flux core welders - my experience was that adding gas
(making it MIG) allowed for the welds to improve significantly - and those pictures on prior page pretty well look like the difference. And of course - practice... but going to MIG if your machine will allow is a nice upgrade.
Thanks for the info. Currently I feel Bill Murray point a finger at me

billmurray.jpg
Yup, I do Bill!

Hooked
1963 Allstate, 2005 Vespa PX150, 2001 Harley 95 ci Dyna
Joined: 06 May 2016
Posts: 320
Location: Central Ohio
Sun Mar 08, 2020 9:45 pm quote
Gascooter:

Your machining looks superb and your swing arm looks great. I would use that swing arm as it looks just fine. Your original bearings look great too. You are now ready for the installation of that swing arm to the front fork. However, I would first press in the sealed bearings, install the large circlip, oil seal, brake shoes, new main axle* with spacer, greased speedo gear, and mount the spring to the swing arm. It is easier to handle without the fork attached to the swing arm. When that is finished, mount the fork to the swing arm and attach the top of the spring to the fork. Then run a new speedo cable down the fork and attach it to the swing arm. It is a lot easier to do it now than when the fork is installed. Attach the damper to the upper bracket and reinstall your fender. You are then ready to install that new modified fork back in the bike. Good luck.

*I found that my old axle did not work with the new sealed bearings. They would sit too far down on the axle. The newer axles have a larger diameter and the bearings will ride farther up the axle. This is the position they are installed in the new swing arm.

DSC05186.JPG
Original axle on left and new axle on right. Note how the new sealed bearings fit on the axles.

Style Maven
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa PK50XL2 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7802
Location: seattle/athens
Sun Mar 08, 2020 10:49 pm quote
qascooter wrote:
Well, I filed on the mozzarella and it came out pretty good! I'm still undecided if I'll use it or not.

RB, thanks for the details! The new needle bearings I received didn't have a ridge to stop the bearings so I pressed them all the way in flush. I didn't like that very much so I put my old bearings back in. Mine hold the bearings just fine while allowing the axle to be pushed through the bearing races.

I was short a bearing and Voodoo kindly supplied me with an assortment of needle bearings. None were the right length, but the right diameter, so I ground the end off to be the correct length.

The old swing arm distance, and the new swing arm distance are identical, after I ground off and filed the extra mozzarella. (That cracks me up Safis - I love it!)

Check it out!
It's a steel insert placed in the permanent mold before the molten aluminum is poured in, just like your fork is a steel insert in the mold when they cast on that lump that carries your mudguard and lower bearing. Also how the brake pins are cast integral with your engine block. The extra aluminum isn't a "coating", it's called flash and usually removed by the foundry. More here: https://www.alcastcompany.com/tubeinsertaluminumcastings.html
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1618
Location: Florence, OR
Sun Mar 08, 2020 10:58 pm quote
V oodoo wrote:
The extra aluminum isn't a "coating", it's called flash and usually removed by the foundry. More here: https://www.alcastcompany.com/tubeinsertaluminumcastings.html
Ahh, it's not Mozzarella? Heh heh... Thanks for the dirt on the "flash"! I learn something new every day!

And thanks for the heads up on the easiest way to assemble RB - much appreciated!
Hooked
1963 Allstate, 2005 Vespa PX150, 2001 Harley 95 ci Dyna
Joined: 06 May 2016
Posts: 320
Location: Central Ohio
Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:11 am quote
More On the Swing Arm Bearings and Axle
The large main sealed bearing will ride farther up on the axle as it is installed deeper in the new swing arm compared to the original one. A large circlip holds the bearing in place. I also used an oil seal to prevent dirt from getting into the bearing area. The old felt seal is not used. Below are some photos that show the bearing installation as well as the new axle.

DSC05186a.jpg
New axle showing where the large sealed bearing will ride. I also welded the four studs as was done on the original fork.

DSC05325.JPG
Small outer sealed bearing installed in swing arm.

DSC05339.JPG
Large sealed bearing installed in swing arm.

DSC05341.JPG
Large sealed bearing and circlip installed in swing arm.

DSC05375.JPG
Outer oil seal installed in swing arm.

DSC05248.JPG
Axle with spacer installed.

DSC05392.JPG
New axle being inserted into swing arm.

DSC05400.JPG
Axle installed in swing arm.

DSC05404.JPG
Outer nut installed.

Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1618
Location: Florence, OR
Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:12 pm quote
Slow progress
Well, I received the new brake/spring shaft and installed the old brass spring base with new rubber grommets, and the washers. And cleaned up the brake arm actuator and installed the brakes. Also put in the bearings.

Now I'm waiting on more parts. Unfortunately, as RB explained earlier, the new bearing rides further up on the axle shaft compared to where the old bearing rides. And it turns out the axle shaft is a smaller diameter where the bearing now rides, which means there is slop, which means I need a new axle. Either that or shim it with a beer can. Naah, not going there, so I'm waiting on parts.

20200309_145948_resized_1.jpg
Old bearing rides close to the hub - new bearing rides further up the shaft because the Sprint swing arm holds the bearing in a different position.

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Look closely and you can see the middle of the shaft is smaller diameter than the original bearing area close to the hub.

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New brakes and bearing installed. Waiting on new axle shaft and rubber oil seal to keep bearing clean (thanks for the tip RB)

20200311_171316_resized.jpg
Closeup of cool brass original lower spring mount

Hooked
1963 Allstate, 2005 Vespa PX150, 2001 Harley 95 ci Dyna
Joined: 06 May 2016
Posts: 320
Location: Central Ohio
Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:28 pm quote
Gascooter you are looking good. Thanks for the update on your project. It appears you are using bearings that will need to be greased later on. I used the sealed bearings instead. Either way, it will work fine. Without the sealed bearings, you really want to put in that oil seal to keep dirt out of the bearing. Make sure that large circlip is in place. When you install the new axle, once it is inserted to where the large bearing offers resistance, put the nut on the other side and use it to pull in the axle slowly. If you try to install the axle from the brake side with force, you run the risk of pushing out the smaller bearing on the other side.

I really like your installation of the spring mount in the swing arm. It is nice to put back as much of the original parts as you can. When it comes time to press on the lower fork bearing race, if your original one including the bearings are okay, I would use them. Just clean off the fork paint where the race goes first. I left the original lower race installed in the frame and used it. If your upper race is still installed in the bike, I would also use the original upper bearings. Just clean and grease them well. I did just that when I saw the poor quality of the new fork bearings and races from India (see photo). My original fork bearings and races were in great shape and yours maybe too.

DSC04642a.jpg
New fork bearings and races from India. The original bearings and races were superior and used in my '63 Allstate. These were discarded.

Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1618
Location: Florence, OR
Sat Mar 28, 2020 6:12 pm quote
I finally - FINALLY - got the fork upgrade completed. I rode it around the block and it is night and day difference - now it feels like a proper front end. I can't wait to ride it around town - oh wait - maybe later this year. Might as well put on the rear shock and see about switching over to electronic ignition while I'm playing hermit...

20200311_171316_resized.jpg
Using as many parts from the old front end as I can, which means this brass spring holder, a brass bushing, some washers, the fork pivot bearings, the wheel bearings and the main fork bearings. They were all in pretty much perfect condition after degreasi

20200326_181137_resized.jpg
Notice the shock has a couple of notches in the inner race. They fit into the notches in the swing arm.

20200326_181129_resized.jpg
There are the notches in the swing arm. After I used zip ties to compress the spring and installed it, I realized there was no way to get this to line up, or is there?

20200326_181404_resized.jpg
I knew I could wait until I installed the fork in the scooter, but instead I put the fork in the vise, Reefed down the spring, and lined up the notches and slid the bolt home.

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Now it's time for the fender - it all cleaned up nicely.

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Not a lot of pictures now. I used the old bearings and races, liberally slathered them up, and installed it back in the scooter.

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Finished - I had to reroute the brake cable and at some point may put a longer outer and new inner, but for now it's rolling!

20200328_154756_resized.jpg
Nice to have B-62 off the operating table and ready to roll!

Molto Verboso
Honda elite
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 1099
Location: California
Sat Mar 28, 2020 6:52 pm quote
oh wow that is superb qascooter!
Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1925

Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:03 pm quote
Nice job, came out great. I donít know about the front brake cable though, kind of a tight looking curve there.
Hooked
1963 Allstate, 2005 Vespa PX150, 2001 Harley 95 ci Dyna
Joined: 06 May 2016
Posts: 320
Location: Central Ohio
Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:15 pm quote
Gascooter - You did a magnificent job re-building that Allstate front fork. It looks great! Thanks for documenting the procedure as you did. It will be helpful to others who wish to upgrade their Allstate's front fork.
Ossessionato
2015 GTS300, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 4432
Location: San Diego, CA
Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:26 pm quote
yeah you will want to sort that front brake cable outer - it makes quite a bit of difference to get rid of those bends. I had a weird bend on my P cable for years and only fixed it after a prospective buyer complained about the spongy front brake. I couldn't believe how much it improved once I trimmed it shorter and got the curves to be gradual and smooth.
Molto Verboso
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 1535
Location: california
Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:29 pm quote
oh man - Ruby (?) is lovely - but me thinks she's gonna get a little lonely when it comes to in-town errands.
B-62 looks superb!!!

Not sure what the etiquette is up there - but down here - tho we are on lock down - they encourage getting out for fresh air as long as we keep distance.
No better way to do that than on the scoot with face shield up.
Lots of waves and thumbs up from the walkers here.
Got same from police car today - as they were patrolling park to ensure people were keeping distance while walking.
Made me smile.
Lots of people out - doing a pretty good job of making space for ea. other.
Few cars on road.
Kinda perfect.
What's it like up there?
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1618
Location: Florence, OR
Sun Mar 29, 2020 8:53 am quote
Thanks guys!

Yeah, I definitely need a longer brake outer, so I can leave the cable out in front of the swingarm. I'll take some measurements and remedy the issue.

And I need to shorten the speedo cable - the 180 bend is silly, but it's the first time it's actually worked consistently since I got the speedo. Go figure.

CM - the mood here along the Central Oregon Coast - The weekend of the 21-22 the coast was inundated with people coming over for the weekend from inland, emptying grocery stores and clogging the parks, which caused the governor to follow suit with California. Stay home when possible.

The coast here is a lot of small towns (5-10k people) spaced apart. Well, Friday about 6pm on the 27th I made a run to the store and the place was empty, the roads were empty, and all was pretty peaceful in Florence. Safeway put down tape for social distancing which was cool. A bunch of restaurants closed their doors and others are takeout only

Florence is 75% retired people. The population usually swells with snow birds during the summer, and vacationers coming down the coast, or coming over to play in the dunes, the beaches, or the lakes. It'll prove to be an interesting spring/summer. It feels like it's the calm before the storm. I sure hope not...

Stay safe everyone!
Hooked
1963 Allstate, 2005 Vespa PX150, 2001 Harley 95 ci Dyna
Joined: 06 May 2016
Posts: 320
Location: Central Ohio
Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:46 pm quote
Gascooter - I think I know what your problem is with the brake and speedo cables. You have them backwards. The speedo cable is run down the fork and exits at the hole in the fork near the top of the spring connection. The brake cable is run down the inside of the fork all the way to the bottom. If you run them like this, they will fit fine.

DSC04979.JPG
Hole in fork where speedo cable exits.

DSC05568.JPG
Front fork of my Allstate showing the proper run of the brake and speedo cables.

Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1618
Location: Florence, OR
Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:58 pm quote
RB Prior wrote:
I think I know what your problem is with the brake and speedo cables. You have them backwards.
Dooohhhh! Thank you RB! And I gotta say, I sure appreciate all your help (with pics). Without them, it would've been...difficult.... Thanks again! Now time to get those switched. Good thing I've got that clamshell headset. It'll be off in 30 seconds...
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1618
Location: Florence, OR
Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:02 am quote
Sorted the cables, and also installed a new rear shock. Now waiting for a break in the weather....

Thanks for your help RB - I appreciate it!

20200331_124414_resized.jpg
Much better - like it's supposed to be

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Nice and shiny

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Ready to roll...

Style Maven
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa PK50XL2 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7802
Location: seattle/athens
Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:39 am quote
Looks wonderful and original, especially love the rear lite and may have to see if I can salvage mine that's like that.

But I think you still ought to trim the brake outer until it makes a smooth large radius without dropping down and coming back up for a little firmer front brake action, YMMV.

Bike's gorgeous regardless.
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1618
Location: Florence, OR
Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:33 pm quote
Hey Brother T - I think I'll do just that - a little trimming on the brake outer will clean it up nicely. I hope all is well with you!
Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1925

Wed Apr 01, 2020 1:59 pm quote
Looks so much better.
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1618
Location: Florence, OR
Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:57 pm quote
Thanks Lynn - But Voodoo's got a point - I'm going to shortening it by a couple of inches. - Even better now!

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I cut this off the end, then removed the cap with the heat gun and pliers.

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Opened up the end with a screwdriver

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Put the cap on the newly cut end (after I ensured there were no burrs in the cable end) and crimped it down

20200401_165842_resized.jpg
Voila - much less of a bend and much nicer...

Molto Verboso
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 1535
Location: california
Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:24 pm quote
Its showroom - if they had made them like the real deal with from damper. Gracious that looks good.
Weather is gonna break.
Super nice ride.
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1618
Location: Florence, OR
Fri Apr 03, 2020 8:22 am quote
charlieman22 wrote:
Gracious that looks good.
Thanks CM! I've got a 20/20 carb and exhaust to install, but I want to do some baseline runs with what it is stock before I start swapping parts to make her breathe easier.

And why I haven't done that yet is because I'm working on passing a lodged kidney stone! It started towards the bladder on the 19th, then made some more progress on the 30th. Peeing through a strainer for the boulder that will emerge. Ha!

Naah, kidney stones are no joke. Fortunately there are no others in my kidneys it's only 3 to 4 mm. Had me puking from the pain - amazing.

All that to say, I've been banned from two wheel travel until Rocky makes an appearance. I have about 30 seconds when this thing starts moving to get into crash position, then all hell breaks loose (hot and cold sweats, involuntary verbal stream of profanities, flopping like a fish, etc.)

So hopefully it'll pass soon. I'm jonesing bad for a ride! Oh hey, does anybody have any advice on getting Rocky to move along? My regimen is tons of water, lemon water, apple cider vinegar, chinese herbs, FloMax, d-Mannose, Tumeric tincture, more water, put the lime in the coconut and shake it all up, Cat-Cow yoga stretch. I'm more of a "throw everything at it and hopefully something will fix it" vs "one thing at a time to see what fixes it". When it comes to my body anyway.

I'm thinking of watching exotic belly dancers so maybe I can pick up some of those undulating moves to move it along. Ha!
Style Maven
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa PK50XL2 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7802
Location: seattle/athens
Fri Apr 03, 2020 8:28 am quote
qascooter wrote:
...

...Ha!

Naah, kidney stones are no joke. Fortunately there are no others in my kidneys it's only 3 to 4 mm. Had me puking from the pain - amazing.

All that to say, I've been banned from two wheel travel until Rocky makes an appearance. I have about 30 seconds when this thing starts moving to get into crash position, then all hell breaks loose (hot and cold sweats, involuntary verbal stream of profanities, flopping like a fish, etc.)

.....

I'm thinking of watching exotic belly dancers so maybe I can pick up some of those undulating moves to move it along. Ha!
Ha indeed.

I know I shouldn't but honesty, policy etc.

Remember Stein's Law and ride soon, Mister!
bodgemaster
1963 GL, 1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5336
Location: So Cal
Fri Apr 03, 2020 9:14 am quote
Been there once myself qa, hopefully never again, feel your pain. Keep guzzling the juice ... youíll pee that little SOB out soon and all will be well.
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1618
Location: Florence, OR
Sat Apr 04, 2020 9:06 am quote
Rocky made an appearance last night!

20200403_222610_resized.jpg
4mm x 6mm

Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4387
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:33 am quote
^^^ That came out of you? It makes me cringe when I think about it. Hope you are feeling better. Go for a ride ASAP!
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1618
Location: Florence, OR
Sat Apr 04, 2020 3:03 pm quote
Thanks guys - yeah, since March 19th that stone has been working it's way from my kidney through a 3-4mm passage (ureter) to the bladder, then out the pepe (urethra). Now I feel as if nothing even happened.

All's I could think when it made it's appearance is "I can ride again!".
Addicted
P125X, P200E
Joined: 02 Apr 2011
Posts: 701
Location: Fresno, CA
Sun Apr 05, 2020 12:01 pm quote
Damn! I remember back when being Stoned was a good thing!

Luckybear
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1618
Location: Florence, OR
Sat Apr 25, 2020 11:28 am quote
I went to install the 20/20 carb, replacing the 20/15 carb, and it doesn't fit in the carb box. So David at ScooterMercato was kind enough to hook me up with a carb and lid. I installed it yesterday - woohoo! I actually ported the carb to the box, and box to the inlet - slightly. After watching CharleyMan grind away - but I didn't grind where the Air/Fuel screw hole is.

So now it's time to get the jetting proper. Currently the engine is a 125cc but I'm going to put a 150cc cylinder on it after I run this for a while.

125cc - SR pipe - 20/20 Spaco carb
Pilot - 40-130
Main stack 140/E3/94
A/F screw 3 1/4 turns out

With the above setup it fired right up from cold with choke. I haven't had a chance to run it yet on account of the rain, but maybe tomorrow.

So what do you all think of the above jetting for the 125cc? I couldn't find any matches in the existing carb charts...

20200424_124017_resized.jpg
Carb ported to box, slightly...

20200424_135618_resized.jpg
New carb and box installed.

20200424_173246_resized.jpg
Waiting to roll....

Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1618
Location: Florence, OR
Sat Apr 25, 2020 11:42 am quote
Oh, and I did manage to get out for a ride before I put the carb in. I went to the Shippin-Shack to drop off a box, then a 28 mile loop through town to the beach. If anybody asked I was on an important mission - to the Shippin-Shack.

20200423_125548_resized.jpg
Who says it won't fit?

20200414_115109_resized.jpg
Ahh, a nice drive to look at the beach...

Molto Verboso
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 1535
Location: california
Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:20 pm quote
Pics of the trip made my day.
Gorgeous.
As for the carb grinding... caused a full on belly laugh.
Have major jealousy every time I see that color blue, the clean gray rubber, that cool simple tail light. That is one lovely scoot.
Surprised you didn't decided to do the same loop a second time after getting home.
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1618
Location: Florence, OR
Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:07 pm quote
Carb dialing in - any thoughts?
OK, so I had the following setup:

125cc - SR pipe - 20/20 Spaco carb
Pilot - 40-130
Main stack 140/E3/94
A/F screw 3 1/4 turns out

Ran great, but I wanted to ensure I wasn't running too lean. So I upped the main to 98, then 102, then 105 - still no sputter at WOT but more 4 stroking mid throttle.

Then I got back home and pulled out my printed chart with all the various scooters and their stock jetting. And realized that I should try to set it up like a P125x or a PX150. So I went this route:

125cc - SR pipe - 20/20 Spaco carb
Pilot - 48-140
Main stack 160/BE3/105
A/F screw 3 1/4 turns out

Ran, but sputter at top end, so put in a 102 main jet. Runs pretty sweet with this but it still might be too big. You see, I also drilled out the carb inlet to 2.0mm, so from CMs trials, I need a smaller jet to dial it in nicely.

I'm going to run it with the 102 for a while and check the plug, then make a decision. This all took a little over an hour, and the rain is back for tomorrow, so back to work on the motorhome floor.

Does anybody have any ideas or thoughts on which way I should go, or does my gameplan sound sound... Thanks!

20200426_123326_resized.jpg
Changing jets at the boardwalk

Screenshot_20200426-122836_DigiHUD.jpg
I think I was running too lean during this run. Also tucked with the wind at my back. Ha!

Molto Verboso
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 1535
Location: california
Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:35 pm quote
Pics great inspiration.
Keep em coming.
Does this have a 3 speed or 4?
Must feel great - have roads largely to yourself!
Veni, Vidi, Posti
a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86, a not so normal pts100 '82 and a red lipstick '74 sprint
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 5684
Location: Indo
Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:53 pm quote
Ride like a boss and fix it like a boss
Hooked
1963 Allstate, 2005 Vespa PX150, 2001 Harley 95 ci Dyna
Joined: 06 May 2016
Posts: 320
Location: Central Ohio
Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:30 pm quote
More on the Early 1960s Allstate Upgrades
Gascooter - I installed a new SI 20/20D carburetor on my 1963 Allstate and it fit just fine. I did put on a 150 cc upgrade so with a SIP Road 2 muffler, my final jetting was as follows:

Main stack: 140-E3-102.
Slow idle: 40-130

I got some mid range four-stroking and eliminated it by turning out the idle mixture screw.

The 150 cc bolt-on upgrade was a wise choice. David at Scooter Mercato helped me find the right one. In my 1963 Allstate, the connecting rod has a bronze bushing rather than the needle bearings so the piston and wrist pin need to match. I also had to purchase a new head to match with the 150 cc cylinder. Installation was rather easy with the engine still mounted in the bike.

I also turned the stator plate 4 mm clockwise from the original position. The photo below shows two blue marks at 3 o'clock. The original position is shown by the blue mark on the right. The blue mark on the stator plate shows the 4 mm change.

Final compression was just 72 psi but the bike starts on the first or second kick and runs great.

Lastly, regarding the 3 speed transmission, I love it. The 1963 Allstate was the last year they used a 3 speed transmission. For my roads, the 3 speed works very well. Look at the gear ratios comparing the 3 and 4 speed transmissions. In the 3 speed transmission, the 1st gear ratio is less and in the 3rd gear, the ratio is less than the 4th gear in the 4 speed transmission. Second gear in the 3 speed is very close to the third gear in the 4 speed transmission. The 3 speed transmission works very well for me on the roads and speeds I ride.

3 speed transmission gear ratios:
First - 12.2 to 1
Second - 7.6 to 1
Third - 4.85 to 1

4 speed transmission gear ratios:
First - 14.7 to 1
Second - 10.28 to 1
Third - 7.31 to 1
Fourth - 5.36 to 1

The bottom line is the early 1960s Allstate bikes, modified with a 150 cc upgrade and front fork, yield a truly classic vintage Vespa that is a pleasure to own and ride.

DSC03840.JPG
Connecting rod in 1963 Allstate showing the bronze bushing.

DSC03852.JPG
150 cc bolt-on cylinder.

DSC03829.JPG
New head to match the 150 cc upgrade.

DSC03877.JPG
Stator plate showing the 4 mm (approx 4 degrees) advance (blue marks).

DSC04589.JPG
After a 1000 mile run in, the compression is only 72 psi. But the bike starts easy and runs great.

Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1618
Location: Florence, OR
Wed Apr 29, 2020 7:54 am quote
charlieman22 wrote:
Does this have a 3 speed or 4?
Must feel great - have roads largely to yourself!
Thanks CM! 3 speed - and it is nice, but you'd be surprised - still a lot of traffic through town....
koenig blues wrote:
Ride like a boss and fix it like a boss
Thanks Brother E - I'm trying.

And RB - thanks for the encouragement and the pics! I'l go to the 150cc after Chris (scootnewb) and I go for a ride. Good to know I'll probably need a different head.

You see, he has a 64 Allstate, and we went for a ride together around town. His scooter is a four speed, mine a three. We found that they were pretty much identical when it came to top speed, power, etc. We're also built similar so it wasn't one of us is way heavier than the other.

So I want to wait until we can ride and compare again, now that I've got an upgraded pipe and the 20/20 installed.

Also, I think the final gear in both scoots is identical My 3rd, and his 4th. According to these docs, and the side-by-side comparison anyway.

And I've got to agree - this scooter has transformed since I first got it. The front end update, rear shock, pipe, and carb - it's fantastic!

3 speed.jpg
Three speed specs from the documentation that came with the scooter

64 4 speed.jpg
Info from ScooterHelp I believe

Dynamic Duo.jpg
62 & 64 Allstate - Chris took this picture - it's awesome!

Hooked
1963 Allstate, 2005 Vespa PX150, 2001 Harley 95 ci Dyna
Joined: 06 May 2016
Posts: 320
Location: Central Ohio
Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:29 am quote
Gascooter - I stand corrected on the gear ratios. I took the four speed gear ratios from a P 150 X spec. The four speed on the 64 Allstate is different. You are correct, the 3rd gear in the three speed transmission is the same as the 4th gear ratio in the four speed transmission for the Allstate scooters. I really like the three speed transmission as it involves less shifting with great performance. The three speed transmission with a 150 cc upgrade is a great combination.
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