Vespa vs. Japanese scooters?
Post Reply    Forum -> General Discussion 1234Next
Author Message
Member
Yamaha SMax 155
Joined: 05 Jul 2017
Posts: 10
Location: Chicago
Tue May 21, 2019 9:17 am quote
I thought sure this would have been discussed, but I didn't find a thread when I searched for it.

I did find one about vs. Chinese, but that's different.

To those of you have owned both, please give some honest and complete feedback on the following areas:

- Fit and finish
- Long-term reliability
- Acceleration
- Ride quality
- Fuel economy
- Overall satisfaction with ownership
- Parts prices
- Ease of self-servicing (assuming moderate mechanical skill)

In cars, I'm not really in any danger of being able to afford a premium Italian one. For scooters? Maybe. I read a lot of good things about Vespa, but part of me feels like some of it is brand pride and fandom.

For example, it's common with a Japanese bike to read: "never a problem." For Vespas, I more often see that it is "trouble free, except that one time the xx went out and stranded me"

What has your experience been?
Addicted
Joined: 21 Apr 2014
Posts: 513

Tue May 21, 2019 10:06 am quote
Some Vespa models have a hand massage feature.
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125/Benelli Leoncino 500. I don't care. You can quote me.
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 17799
Location: South East Great England of Britishland
Tue May 21, 2019 10:18 am quote
Munch
Oh Jesus.

I'm staying away from this one.

Bill x
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Kitted Vespa 2017 GTV 300, BMW 2017 C650GT, Ural 2019 Gear Up
Joined: 21 May 2017
Posts: 7143
Location: Downtown Toronto
Tue May 21, 2019 10:58 am quote
tortoise wrote:
Some Vespa models have a hand massage feature.
Yes and it takes someone with gorilla like strength to keep the scoot upright 🙄
Addicted
Vespa PX 177 Settantesimo, Vespa GTS Super 300 HPE
Joined: 01 Feb 2017
Posts: 874
Location: London
Tue May 21, 2019 11:10 am quote
Addicted
2017 BV 350 Matte Black
Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 758
Location: Northern Virginia
Tue May 21, 2019 11:19 am quote
I'll bite. It's an iconic design -- say "Vespa" and virtually anyone will know what you're referring to. Say "PCX 150" or "Xmax" and they will draw a blank. It's a monocoque design made of metal -- not metal tubes surrounded by plastic. It's far more expensive for the same engine displacement and feature set than a Japanese (read made in Taiwan or China) scooter. Reliability? Anyone who buys an Italian mass produced auto or PTW for reliability must be a new arrival in this space/time continuum. I've had two, loved them. Love my BV350 now. They never have been my "daily driver" so reliability isn't a consideration for me.
Ossessionato
Triumph Street Scrambler 2018, Suzuki VanVan200 (sold), 2015 Sprint 125 (sold)
Joined: 12 Apr 2015
Posts: 2392
Location: Finland
Tue May 21, 2019 11:36 am quote
A loaded question in the modern Vespa forum

I'll just add that the Japanese brands are not all the same, actually many have their own "thing".....a huge Burger, Suzuki Burgman vs. Honda Cup vs Yamaha TMax vs Vespa.... you'll see what I mean, very different animals.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300, BV 500, Buddy 125
Joined: 05 Apr 2008
Posts: 8157
Location: Houston, TX/Breckenridge, CO
Tue May 21, 2019 11:56 am quote
The only scooter that has stranded me for mechanical issues was a Suzuki Burgman 400 we used to have stranded me 70 miles from home when it refused to start after stopping for gas and the authorized Suzuki shop nearby couldn't figure out what the problem was.

We ended up riding home two up on our Italian (Sports City) scooter to get our trailer to take it someplace else. Problem was found, an electrical issue.

FWIW, the only time a Vespa or other Italian scooter has stranded me was when I got a flat tire. I did have an issue on my Vespa where the fuel line came loose but that was easy enough to put right by removing the pet carrier and clicking the line back in securely. Pity it wasn't that easy with the Burgman.

But then you already know this from the ADVRider forum.
Hooked
PX 150
Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 343
Location: Dublin, Ohio
Tue May 21, 2019 12:11 pm quote


If this is for real, there is lots to be read and watched about them everywhere. Then test ride one. If this is a troll, not likely youíll catch many here.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Kitted Vespa 2017 GTV 300, BMW 2017 C650GT, Ural 2019 Gear Up
Joined: 21 May 2017
Posts: 7143
Location: Downtown Toronto
Tue May 21, 2019 12:20 pm quote
apex wrote:


If this is for real, there is lots to be read and watched about them everywhere. Then test ride one. If this is a troll, not likely youíll catch many here.
Hey! Be fair to us! We have our share of trolls under the bridge here that come out in to the sun once in a while to remind us they are here

Sheeeshhh... You're making it sound like we don't have any trolls. Any self respecting forum has a few. Let's not undersell ourselves.
Addicted
2006 GT200L "Lone Star"-Sold, 2006 Yamaha Majesty YP400
Joined: 15 Jan 2019
Posts: 637
Location: Texas
Tue May 21, 2019 12:33 pm quote
I've owned a 650 Burgman, 400 Majesty, 250 Helix, and 125 Aero, plus lots of motorcycles, and currently own a 2010 GTS 300. They all have their pluses and minuses. I can't address the 300cc class of Japanese scooters.

The Japanese scooters have more of a cruiser riding position than the Vespa.

To address your list

Japanese fit and finish was good, but plastic panels over tube frame construction lends itself to rattling plastic, at least in my experience. Wiring runs, cables, and hoses were well thought out. Vespa exterior fit and finish (especially paintwork) is very good, as befits a premium product, but wire runs, cables, and hoses seem (to me) haphazardly installed and secured.

Reliability, in my case, was rock solid for the Japanese scoots. Haven't owned my Vespa long enough to tell.

The Burgman, Majesty, and Helix are heavy-ish and tend to be slow off the line, and gather speed deliberately, but will generally out accelerate most cars.

The Burgman, Majesty, and Helix have long wheelbases and are heavy. They ride pretty well and are stable on the highway, but aren't as "flickable" as the GTS with its shorter wheelbase and smaller wheels. I find the GTS "darty" at highway speeds; others on MV disagree.

Fuel economy is a function of weight, throttle use, engine size/configuration, and drag. In other words, it depends. My big Burgman's MPG was usually in the mid-30s, while my GTS is often better than 50 MPG; one was a 650cc twin and one is a 278cc single.

I've enjoyed all the scooters I've owned. The GTS is fun to ride, maneuverable, has a good seating position for me, and is nice to look at.

Parts availability drives prices. I have a Honda and Yamaha dealer in town, and could shop with them when I owned their products, or I could cross-shop a dozen online sources for the best price. I don't have a Piaggio/Vespa dealer here, so it's the internet only, and I aggressively price shop.

Scooters are, in my opinion, simply harder to work on than motorcycles. They sacrifice ease of service for smooth exteriors. The Japanese scooters have a lot of "tupperware" covering everything that has to be removed to get to the engine and electrics, and to do basic service. The body panels have little tabs that tend to break if you repeatedly take the bodywork off. My Majesty had two air filters, on opposite sides of the swingarm, that were a pain to service. Its battery was hidden in the tailcone, and changing lightbulbs required removing a lot of plastic. My GTS also requires a lot of disassembly to perform basic functions. The clock battery requires taking the entire head unit apart to replace, the radiator hoses are under the footrest panels, the spark plug is hard to access, etc. If you have moderate mechanical skill, and a decent set of tools, you can handle it.

In summary, the Japanese (and Taiwanese) scooters are like appliances-buy them, use them, take basic care of them, and they'll run for decades. Vespas are more like kinetic art-lovely to look at, fun to interact with, but requiring more commitment to take care of.
Ossessionato
GTS250
Joined: 16 Jan 2010
Posts: 3633
Location: Tempe, AZ
Tue May 21, 2019 1:29 pm quote
To a certain extent you're comparing apples to oranges (tubular frame -plastic panels to metal body/frame construction). Both type engines, properly maintained and not beaten to death, will last longer than you'd expect.


Mostly then, it's a style decision. Do you want the classic shape of the Vespa, ordo you like the modern design of most Japanese scoots. Your choice. Finally, don't forget the scoots from Taiwan.
Banned
2007 LX50
Joined: 04 Jul 2018
Posts: 69
Location: DC
Tue May 21, 2019 1:35 pm quote
Iím a longtime motorcyclist and have only owned Ducatis for a dozen or so years now; on my 5th and currently have two. You donít know hassle until youíve ridden Ducati. But they are what I consider the best, despite it all. Same for Vespa. Vespas are the best looking in my opinion. The Vespa LX is a great looking scooter. It matters. Also, for a 49cc 4-stroke itís the fastest. I outran a guy on a Ruckus up a hill the other day. He was doiní 12 while I blew past him at 15. And he had a badass exhaust on his. The Piaggio engines are the best out there. All others are throwaways. No interest in anything but a Vespa for a small commuting vehicle. Reliability has been great and I ride it very hard. I think theyíre worth the extra coin.
Ossessionato
PX200, Moto Guzzi V7 Cafe Classic
Joined: 22 Nov 2011
Posts: 2115
Location: Sydney, Australia
Tue May 21, 2019 1:50 pm quote
Get a PX. Will never let you down. And if it does you can fix it yourself on the side of the road. As for Ducati, learn to service it yourself or open a separate savings account to pay for it.
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 38720
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Tue May 21, 2019 2:28 pm quote
Italian vs Asian manufacture? The Honda SH series is made in Italy - many Vespa models are made in India and Vietnam.
Ossessionato
LXV 150 3v ie. Midnight Blue (Sold)
Joined: 06 Dec 2010
Posts: 3377
Location: Bangkok
Tue May 21, 2019 5:15 pm quote
Where I live Vespa is an Italian designed Vietnamese scooter.

Japanese are good at making engines and stuff. But for overall design and aesthetics you have to pick Italian.

Although every now and again the Japanese do come up with somethings quirky.
MV Santa
GTS250, 1960 VBA, 1975 VBC, 1980 P200E cutdown
Joined: 04 May 2010
Posts: 4345
Location: Sedgwick, Kansas
Tue May 21, 2019 6:49 pm quote
A couple years ago my GTS was down for a few months for repair. I bought a used Yamaha Majesty to get me by. I didn't have it for a a very long time but it served me well. It did everything it was supposed to do. Comfortable, reliable and generally well thought out and built. It was much better on the interstate but the Vespa is not really made for that. My only complaint was that it was as dull as dishwater. I sold it when the GTS was back up and running. I have considered buying a BV350 for the highway ride but although it's a Piaggio, it's still not a Vespa.
Sponsor
Granturismo 218
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Posts: 6199
Location: NWAOK
Tue May 21, 2019 9:14 pm quote
You know that anything from one of the Japanese companies is more reliable than a Vespa. But you're still here. That's pretty much how it is. Nobody buys a
Vespa because it's practical transportation.
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125/Benelli Leoncino 500. I don't care. You can quote me.
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 17799
Location: South East Great England of Britishland
Tue May 21, 2019 10:11 pm quote
Opal
Knotted.

Bill x
Addicted
Vespa PX 177 Settantesimo, Vespa GTS Super 300 HPE
Joined: 01 Feb 2017
Posts: 874
Location: London
Tue May 21, 2019 10:26 pm quote
Go Japanese
Seeing as style was not explicit in the list, if I was head of branding at Vespa I would believe are products were not designed for you.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
LX190, Primavera
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 6514
Location: New Zealand
Tue May 21, 2019 10:32 pm quote
Re: Munch
Bill Dog wrote:
Oh Jesus.

I'm staying away from this one.

Bill x
Ahem.
Hooked
1997 T5 Classic
Joined: 26 Dec 2008
Posts: 186
Location: Durham UK
Wed May 22, 2019 2:00 am quote
Ive noticed in the UK, modern vespas rot like hell.

Ive also used a Yamaha Cygnus X 125, and they seem like a toyota hilux, impossible to kill.
Ossessionato
GT200 & GTS250 & NC750X & Royal Enfield Pegasus
Joined: 23 Aug 2013
Posts: 2142
Location: London
Wed May 22, 2019 3:02 am quote
- Fit and finish
New, I'd say they're about the same. Vespa's are made almost entirely of metal so they'll need a little more care than plastic scooters in a damp environment. I haven't suffered from any rot on my Vespas but then I keep them in a garage. Saying that, paint on plastic tends to fade if you keep them out in the sun so Japanese scooters don't tend to look great after a decade of use. I doubt you'd want to keep most Jap scooters for that long anyway. Draw.

- Long-term reliability
About the same. Haven't had any issues on any of the bikes I've owned. My older motorguzzi's could be a little temperamental but they were made in the 70's when all bikes could be temperamental. Japanese would probably win in the long term but I've never really kept Japanese bikes for all that long (I just get bored of them).

- Acceleration
My Gilera Runner 180SP was the fastest scoot I've ever owned. On races through London it seemed about equivalent to the 600cc sports bikes of the time. I suspect the Gilera Gp800 is still one of the fastest scooters out there at 125mph. I'll say Italy wins but I could be wrong.

- Ride quality
The most comfortable bike I've ever had was my GT200. I've had all manner of Japanese, German and Italian bikes. Italy wins.

- Fuel economy
My Honda NC750 is better than my scoots. It will cruise all day at 80mph and return 80mpg while doing it. My Royal Enfield however returns about 90mpg but at 50mph though it will feel like 80mph. India wins!

- Overall satisfaction with ownership
Italy beats Japan hands down. Most Japanese bikes have the personality of a fridge freezer. Still think my Enfield wins hands down though as I can't wait to kick start the old girl and trundle off into town.

- Parts prices
Difficult to say as I bought my Vespa GT200 in 2003 and nothing has gone wrong with it yet. It's a similar story on my GTS250. I do buy spark plugs, oil and tyres etc but I think they're the same price for any scooter. The metal body work on a Vespa doesn't snap and brake after a slide so (if you can put up with a few scratches). I'd say a draw overall.

- Ease of self-servicing (assuming moderate mechanical skill)
The Vespa engine is enclosed in the metal bodywork which can make some work more awkward but then I've never had to do anything other than change the spark plug and oil etc. Removing tonnes of bodywork on Japanese bikes can be a pain also. Draw.
Enthusiast
2019 GTS, 2009 Buddy St. Tropez 150
Joined: 10 Sep 2009
Posts: 58
Location: Carson City, NV
Wed May 22, 2019 3:38 am quote
I once bought a new PCX. Had the unpleasant discovery that the 600-mile maintenance required intake/exhaust valve inspection/maintenance which required removal of numerous body panels. Iíve owned numerous Vespas and Piaggios. Love the style and they are easy to maintain.
Molto Verboso
2011 300GTV
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 1724
Location: Agate Fossil Beds, Nebraska
Wed May 22, 2019 5:13 am quote
Gotta be honest,,,
I bought a Vespa because of its story & heritage.
Additionally I have repeatedly seen those other pretty scooters self destruct over a year or two, while my Vespa is a quality built machine, looking and acting like a champ after 8 yrs and 13,000 miles.
Banned
2007 LX50
Joined: 04 Jul 2018
Posts: 69
Location: DC
Wed May 22, 2019 5:46 am quote
Motovista wrote:
Nobody buys a
Vespa because it's practical transportation.
I did, and itís been quite practical for me. I even bought it cheap. 11 years old and kinda beat up but it runs great. Simple maintenance and easy repairs. Perfect for commuting to work. I like these scooters.
Member
Yamaha SMax 155
Joined: 05 Jul 2017
Posts: 10
Location: Chicago
Wed May 22, 2019 7:43 am quote
Thanks guys and gals for the replies.

I'm really interested in hearing different viewpoints; I'm not trolling.
Member
Yamaha SMax 155
Joined: 05 Jul 2017
Posts: 10
Location: Chicago
Wed May 22, 2019 7:46 am quote
griffin1108 wrote:
I'll bite. It's an iconic design -- say "Vespa" and virtually anyone will know what you're referring to. Say "PCX 150" or "Xmax" and they will draw a blank.
Well, to be fair, comparing brand recognition of Vespa to model recognition of other brands isn't fair.

I'll give you that when someone thinks 'scooter', 'Vespa' is probably the word most associated with it.

But if I told someone I have a Yamaha scooter, they would not draw a blank; it would just not be quite what they expected.
Member
Yamaha SMax 155
Joined: 05 Jul 2017
Posts: 10
Location: Chicago
Wed May 22, 2019 7:55 am quote
Syd wrote:
To a certain extent you're comparing apples to oranges (tubular frame -plastic panels to metal body/frame construction). Both type engines, properly maintained and not beaten to death, will last longer than you'd expect.


Mostly then, it's a style decision. Do you want the classic shape of the Vespa, ordo you like the modern design of most Japanese scoots. Your choice. Finally, don't forget the scoots from Taiwan.
Good points, and succinct, too.

I had a Taiwanese scooter, a Buddy 125. Overall, they're not as nice as Japanese, and I'll happily pay more for Japanese. They pay attention to almost every detail, and the only places they seem cheap are where they were deliberate about it. Not by oversight.

I test rode a Piaggio BV350 a year or two ago, and its off-the-line acceleration absolutely SMOKED the Silver Wing's. I was surprised. Is this shorter clutch engagement characteristic of Italian scooters in general, for better urban performance, or was that just the BV350?
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 38720
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Wed May 22, 2019 7:57 am quote
Motovista wrote:
Nobody buys a
Vespa because it's practical transportation.
Back in 2006 Mrs jimc (Ivana Tinkle) did - SF Bay Area traffic was already dire (it's much worse now) and her job required visiting many households spread over a ten mile radius. Journey times reduced by 75%.

Likewise when I moved over here - the only sensible way to get around locally is on a PTW. No traffic hold-ups on the road, and always somewhere to park conveniently and for free.

Using a car for commuting around here is a mugs game. Example, yesterday we went into the city (SF) to meet with some friends from the VCdM. We went by BART (the local rapid transit train) - but of course as it was raining we took the car to Pleasant Hill BART station - nowhere to park. Ended up driving home and taking the scooters to BART - about 80 empty PTW parking spaces.
Member
Yamaha SMax 155
Joined: 05 Jul 2017
Posts: 10
Location: Chicago
Wed May 22, 2019 7:58 am quote
Bobo wrote:
Get a PX. Will never let you down. And if it does you can fix it yourself on the side of the road. As for Ducati, learn to service it yourself or open a separate savings account to pay for it.
You've got to like the style. I'm meh on the PX styling.

With no built-in storage and a manual transmission, I don't see the point. Might as well have a small motorcycle. Something like a Honda Monkey.
Member
Yamaha SMax 155
Joined: 05 Jul 2017
Posts: 10
Location: Chicago
Wed May 22, 2019 8:02 am quote
Sputnik wrote:
I once bought a new PCX. Had the unpleasant discovery that the 600-mile maintenance required intake/exhaust valve inspection/maintenance which required removal of numerous body panels. Iíve owned numerous Vespas and Piaggios. Love the style and they are easy to maintain.
I had a PCX too. I saw that 600 mile valve check interval and thought that is ridiculous. Most PCX owners do it at 600, then 5k or something, and if it's OK at 5k, never check again.

Ride quality on my 2013 PCX was awful. I don't know if it was a short swingarm, short travel or what, but it was horrible. Right down there with a Buddy.
Member
Yamaha SMax 155
Joined: 05 Jul 2017
Posts: 10
Location: Chicago
Wed May 22, 2019 8:05 am quote
jimc wrote:
Motovista wrote:
Nobody buys a
Vespa because it's practical transportation.
... Ended up driving home and taking the scooters to BART - about 80 empty PTW parking spaces.
What's "PTW?"

I had the unpleasant duty to drive into San Francisco once in rush hour across the bridge. It was horrible. I noticed there were a lot of Prii, it makes sense.

I'm surprised more folks aren't on bikes there. It was the worst traffic I'd ever seen.
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 38720
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Wed May 22, 2019 8:09 am quote
Smaug wrote:
jimc wrote:
Motovista wrote:
Nobody buys a
Vespa because it's practical transportation.
... Ended up driving home and taking the scooters to BART - about 80 empty PTW parking spaces.
What's "PTW?"
Powered Two (or three) Wheeler.
Quote:
I had the unpleasant duty to drive into San Francisco once in rush hour across the bridge. It was horrible. I noticed there were a lot of Prii, it makes sense.
[pedant] It's Priuses FFS, it's not a Latin word. [/pedant]
Quote:
I'm surprised more folks aren't on bikes there. It was the worst traffic I'd ever seen.
It's horrible. I'd never take a car in.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Kitted Vespa 2017 GTV 300, BMW 2017 C650GT, Ural 2019 Gear Up
Joined: 21 May 2017
Posts: 7143
Location: Downtown Toronto
Wed May 22, 2019 9:23 am quote
jimc wrote:
Motovista wrote:
Nobody buys a
Vespa because it's practical transportation.
Back in 2006 Mrs jimc (Ivana Tinkle) did - SF Bay Area traffic was already dire (it's much worse now) and her job required visiting many households spread over a ten mile radius. Journey times reduced by 75%.

Likewise when I moved over here - the only sensible way to get around locally is on a PTW. No traffic hold-ups on the road, and always somewhere to park conveniently and for free.

Using a car for commuting around here is a mugs game. Example, yesterday we went into the city (SF) to meet with some friends from the VCdM. We went by BART (the local rapid transit train) - but of course as it was raining we took the car to Pleasant Hill BART station - nowhere to park. Ended up driving home and taking the scooters to BART - about 80 empty PTW parking spaces.
It's the same deal in Toronto. However sometimes even on a bike it can be quicker to walk at times. There is construction everywhere closing down lanes and the layout and access to the freeways a joke. I live down the street from one of the major on ramps downtown and at rush hour it can take an hour to move a few blocks just to go on an expressway that is anything but express. That's part of the reason so many condos are going up. People have given up on the commute and are just moving downtown.
Molto Verboso
Vespa GTS 250ie
Joined: 02 Jun 2015
Posts: 1229
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Wed May 22, 2019 1:57 pm quote
Having owned many scoot's and bikes from Taiwan, Japan and Italy;
If you want a very high quality tool that may lack looks but rides and performs well: Japan (or Taiwan in the case of PGO and Kymco).
If you want the scooter life and don't mind surprises, go with Vespa.
Surprises = Well documented in this forum quality issues that you may or may not have with your Vespa. Read this forum for a list of surprises.
Ossessionato
2014 Commuter BV350(44,000)/2015 Scoot Life BV350(10,000)/2010 El Diablito SH150i(30,000)
Joined: 27 Dec 2013
Posts: 2445
Location: Orange Park Florida
Wed May 22, 2019 4:37 pm quote
In the 150cc class there's no denying the SH. 16HP stock, 11,000 miles rear tire life, top speed(68mph to 80deg f, 75mph above 80deg f), 90 mpg in the city and 70 mpg when WOT. The speedo is spot on. Two screws and one plastic panel will allow enough access to do a full top end replacement.
I once thought I wanted a GT200 until I test drove one. Oops, did I say that out loud
Veni, Vidi, Posti
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2012 Honda NC700 DCT
Joined: 02 Mar 2013
Posts: 6060
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Wed May 22, 2019 4:45 pm quote
[quote="jimc"]
Smaug wrote:
jimc wrote:
Motovista wrote:
Nobody buys a
Vespa because it's practical transportation.
... Ended up driving home and taking the scooters to BART - about 80 empty PTW parking spaces.
What's "PTW?"
Powered Two (or three) Wheeler.


Veni, Vidi, Posti
LX190, Primavera
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 6514
Location: New Zealand
Wed May 22, 2019 4:46 pm quote
breaknwind wrote:
top speed(68mph to 80deg f, 75mph above 80deg f),
How does that work?
Ossessionato
2014 Commuter BV350(44,000)/2015 Scoot Life BV350(10,000)/2010 El Diablito SH150i(30,000)
Joined: 27 Dec 2013
Posts: 2445
Location: Orange Park Florida
Wed May 22, 2019 4:54 pm quote
znomit wrote:
breaknwind wrote:
top speed(68mph to 80deg f, 75mph above 80deg f),
How does that work?
Cold air is denser than warm/hot air.
Team Scooter Trash for Petfinder Foundation   vespa scooterwest scooter west Motorsport Scooters   Scooter Parts Company
Post Reply    Forum -> General Discussion 1234Next
[ Time: 0.1915s ][ Queries: 25 (0.0355s) ][ Debug on ]