Pinasco 225 ss new
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px 200 e
Joined: 06 Jun 2019
Posts: 12
Location: cz
Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:27 am quote
Hello, I have put a Pinasco kit 225 ss on my PX 200 e with separate lubrication including 60 shaft.

i have found this :

The adjusting data, which Pinasco in its older catalogs published, are not valid any longer. The preignition should be stopped between 20 and 23° v.Ot (depending upon exhaust) and the Bedüsung the following values to be adapted: Luftkorrekturdüse: 190, mixing tube: BE3, main jet: 118-125, Nebendüse: 2,4-2,9 a hole should be bored into the air cleaner with these Bedüsung in no case, as this was to be read in old Pinascoanleitungen. This is only attached if a 160|er Luftkorrekturdüse is used! In addition, then the diameter of the drilling should not exceed 5mm. Note: Due to in series all right the high compression the Pinasco with superfuel should be operated. The compression should be taken back on use of a running exhaust system possibly be reduced, at least however preignition, and adapted the Bedüsung! "

Can someone please tell me what carburetor nozzles my si 24 with pump needed? thanks
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 6945
Location: Victoria, Australia
Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:09 pm quote
I have literally no idea what most of that means, although I recognise some jet sizes. Do you have a link to the source? I've had better luck than google translate using this - https://www.deepl.com/translator

And welcome to MV!
Member
px 200 e
Joined: 06 Jun 2019
Posts: 12
Location: cz
Fri Jun 07, 2019 12:49 am quote
So this cylinder is not good, 213 has worked well then came the 60 crankshaft and the new original 225 head from Italy and since then it runs badly. I have tried everything, it does not want to work, . I will better use an original cylinder on long stroke.
Molto Verboso
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Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:27 am quote
I have no experience of the 213 with a 60mm stroke, but I do use the Super Sport 225 kit with VRH head. I don't really know if the cylinders are different or if the stroke compensation is just in the head. However, when running with a normal (drilled) air filter, I use a pretty basic 160/BE3/130 and 55/150 in a 24/24 carb. When using a venturi, I have 160/BE2/150 and 60/160. It runs really well in both cases. I was running an original BGM BigBox but now use a Polini box.
Member
px 200 e
Joined: 06 Jun 2019
Posts: 12
Location: cz
Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:08 am quote
Cylinders are identical, the difference are 2 different heads

Problem is: jerking or swallowing (sprayback with siproad) when
gas take-off in the partial load range, idle 45/140 and 160/be3 128, ignition timing 18°
Molto Verboso
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Joined: 17 Jul 2013
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Location: UK (South East)
Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:37 am quote
Just to correct my typo, I use a 55/160 idle jet, not 55/150
Member
px 200 e
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Posts: 12
Location: cz
Sun Jun 09, 2019 3:46 am quote
swa45 wrote:
with a normal (drilled) air filter, I use a pretty basic 160/BE3/130 and 55/150 in a 24/24 carb.
zip wrote:
Problem jerking or swallowing (sprayback with siproad) when
gas take-off in the partial load range, idle 45/140 and 160/be3 128, ignition timing 18°
According to the instructions, a 5mm hole is drilled over the idle jet ! Is that the solution to the problem? The main jet without drilling only the idle jet? Ask for your advice

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Molto Verboso
One or two fun scoots....nothing too precious
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Sun Jun 09, 2019 4:32 am quote
I always drill two holes, one above each jet. The one above the main jet is bigger, probably 7mm in my case, but my memory could be bad.
Member
px 200 e
Joined: 06 Jun 2019
Posts: 12
Location: cz
Sun Jun 09, 2019 4:43 am quote
Main jet actually fits, the idlejet area runs too fat, I'll try and report it with the hole 5mm over the idle and take the better 55/160
Member
px 200 e
Joined: 06 Jun 2019
Posts: 12
Location: cz
Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:19 am quote
But not right, according to Pinasco, the mainjet meant, but this is not the problem, will not drill a hole, instead testing 48/160

5984569772_bcda6d840e_b.jpg

Addicted
P125X, P200E
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Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:14 am quote
[According to the instructions, a 5mm hole is drilled over the idle jet ! Is that the solution to the problem? The main jet without drilling only the idle jet? Ask for your advice ]

Hi Zip

Couldyou post the other pages from the Pinasco manual please? I'd like to see what they say about timing, jetting, etc.[/quote]
Member
px 200 e
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Location: cz
Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:17 am quote
Yes

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Addicted
P125X, P200E
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Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:01 pm quote
Perfect! Thank you ZIP
Ossessionato
2 matching N.Z. '69 VBC Super, 177cc Racer, VespaCross Bodge, Puch SRA150, Piaggio Zip 100! & others
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Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:00 pm quote
Zip,

Welcome...
BTW: where are you from/based?
Member
px 200 e
Joined: 06 Jun 2019
Posts: 12
Location: cz
Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:04 am quote
Thanks, I am from Prag Czech
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
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Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:19 am quote
Pilot jet is too small. Try a 55/100.
Member
px244gs, cosa221LX, sprint177, gilera runner 180, triumph tiger 955
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Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:55 am quote
hi zip


have you read this topic?
Issues with Pinasco 225 Supersport pistons


then check my utube infos, ie this one
sell this cylinder as long as it lives
its a technical design, lets say, "with a lot of potential"


the weakest of all 200cc pistons from the early 80ies
pinasco even weakens it more as the inner beams are cut through
the cylinder still only 1 port as it is just a original 198cc copy in alu
and way too wide edges at the bottom which hit exactly
the weakest parts of the very weak piston
and its more expensive than the BEST touring cyl
the malossi sport 210


sell it.

in the case of the L shaped ports, its not worth buying the GS piston
(which looks like a malossi/vertex piston)

in case of the 9T 225 with finally 3 real ports, its worth investing in a GS piston when you have the cyl already.

but... fact is.
malossi sport&MHR 210 and quattrini M232/244
are the best 200cc cylinders

why, you can read up on my fb page with a lot of more links

https://www.facebook.com/freakmoped/posts/2186029904838473?__xts__%5B0%5D=68.ARA50agJTVBr1XCr3Z-GodpFvBKZquzoW5wAaV2zsirrAjRNZWPPssunC1XrOjJ-2lUfScLAOxwVomtX69sVzsMGAsJuwUHE8PXleXSwk1DmYK3cJH9Bq5ci1gW7tR7DzUQN3_CdlqU-tuJa-xxjBO9FXLfIzY4C_l7FGkaAtDSjY3Ahen8SECDz9lzm994UE6CvtBgnrnz5dmOABjrSZmSsurqdqVhothwXdkn8Q3BeS4Y36SQx3uy4KJ4BJCtFryEleeSIC2sBpabnMcgWWyKuQsQ72NiH2YEd8vuvq908tkhHbsj0p4LO9Y9pcgsNqC2JBGiCgtVjmgWp7AKSR90SdZ6B&__tn__=K-R
Member
px 200 e
Joined: 06 Jun 2019
Posts: 12
Location: cz
Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:33 am quote
BEST 200cc CYLINDER RANKING by FMP:

available cylinder kits in alphabetical order:
malossi 210 sport
malossi 210 mhr
pinasco 213 super sport, 1 real port,
pinasco 215/225 9T, 3 real ports
polini 207 cast iron
polini 210 aluminum
quattrini M232
quattrini M244




But and what is best plug and play with 60 crankshaft now for mee ?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 6945
Location: Victoria, Australia
Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:55 am quote
A Malossi Sport with no case adjustments achieves around 16hp. Better than stock, but with a lot of potential.

The main thing FMP says about the Pinasco and Polini is the poor piston design. Read some more about that here - Issues with Pinasco 225 Supersport pistons
Molto Verboso
One or two fun scoots....nothing too precious
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 1105
Location: UK (South East)
Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:18 pm quote
Yet my Pinasco Super Sport 225 has served me very well for the past five years, which includes a VERY tough tour of Spain in 2017 with a pillion and luggage, plus many other long rides at relatively high speed. Don't [blindly] buy into what FMP says about the Pinasco. I realise he is a very well respected and valuable Vespa expert, but others have had good experiences.

I changed the rings six weeks ago and the piston was in mint condition. Just saying.......there are always two ways to tell the same story.

PS. I have no reason to promote Pinasco products, other than they work well for me
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 6945
Location: Victoria, Australia
Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:38 pm quote
swa45 wrote:
Yet my Pinasco Super Sport 225 has served me very well for the past five years, which includes a VERY tough tour of Spain in 2017 with a pillion and luggage, plus many other long rides at relatively high speed. Don't [blindly] buy into what FMP says about the Pinasco. I realise he is a very well respected and valuable Vespa expert, but others have had good experiences.

I changed the rings six weeks ago and the piston was in mint condition. Just saying.......there are always two ways to tell the same story.

PS. I have no reason to promote Pinasco products, other than they work well for me
Yes he's generally anti-Pinasco most of the time, although he doesn't admit to it. But having been on the receiving end of a broken piston that had done about 20,000km with absolutely no other issues left me a bit unimpressed. However when they do go, they go very well indeed.
Member
px 200 e
Joined: 06 Jun 2019
Posts: 12
Location: cz
Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:47 am quote
it fits

i have make 5mm and 7mm boost holes in the air filter, take 50/120 (2.4) and 160/BE3 122 in the carburetor, and take a bigger standard LML air filter cover, plus road sport exhaust

is the spark plug image ok ?

IMG_20190627_231842.jpg

IMG_20190628_004112.jpg

Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1562

Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:37 am quote
It's difficult to tell from your pictures, but it looks like your plug is very white...or maybe it's just the camera flash that makes it look white? Anyhow, a 122 main would be on the lean if your engine was a stock 200 with a Sito+ (most people run a 125 main). Since your engine is a 225cc, i would guess that you might need to be somewhere around a 138 (or larger)?
Member
px 200 e
Joined: 06 Jun 2019
Posts: 12
Location: cz
Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:30 am quote
update:

I was bored and so I thought you build your engine back to original, built back to 57mm shaft and noticed that the cylinder has slight grooves and has less compression,

because this cylinder has already worried me enough and the spare parts are completely overpriced, i changed it against a new bgm 12 hp cylinder and made a test drive, hm drives like a PX 125, not suitable for touring, so I have reinstalled the 60mm shaft with spacer on the head, and now it runs perfectly with original exhaust.

It feels like it came from the factory. I hooope she drives now easily. I like original Zylinders
Member
px 200 e
Joined: 06 Jun 2019
Posts: 12
Location: cz
Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:50 am quote
To end the story I would like another supplement.
The last installed cylinder with 12 hp was not fun anymore. The original cylinder of my PX 200 was so turned out a special 10 hp cylinder was available not only in Germany but also Italy. I was in love with this characteristic. It delivered torque from the lower speed range and was very quiet to drive with sport exhaust. The new has 12 hp and the long-stroke misses the performance in the lower rpm range enormously what is particularly bad uphill, no comparison to the 10 hp with which I was so happy, well, what do you do when annoyed? Another cylinder change and hope for the best and so I thought now that the carburetor is set perfectly you try it again with the Pinasco and now works better than ever, the solution to the problem was to find the standard setting for 12 hp and the Ignition to 21 °. This Pinasco has a lot of power uphill, reminds me of my beloved Polini Smallframe. More precisely:

160be3/125
55/160
Idle mixture screw out 1.5 turns
zzp 21°
sport road exhaust
Boost Holes 5mm 7mm

EDITH 19.8.2019 because i found the right setup thanks to this Technical List

160BE3/122
55/160
zzp 18° (23°)
ORIGINAL exhaust
only the 5mm Hole over the Main Jet in the Airfilter according to pin. instructions
NGK B8ES

And this for normal and good PX driving : ! Clutch sprocket -DRT-24 tooth !

setting.jpg



Last edited by zip on Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:05 am; edited 6 times in total
Hooked
Honda elite
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 491
Location: California
Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:33 am quote
Thanks ZIP
Hooked
Jet 200, P200E (x2), T5
Joined: 27 Jan 2013
Posts: 319
Location: Paris, France & L.A., Cal, USA
Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:07 pm quote
swa45 wrote:
Yet my Pinasco Super Sport 225 has served me very well for the past five years, which includes a VERY tough tour of Spain in 2017 with a pillion and luggage, plus many other long rides at relatively high speed. Don't [blindly] buy into what FMP says about the Pinasco. I realise he is a very well respected and valuable Vespa expert, but others have had good experiences.

I changed the rings six weeks ago and the piston was in mint condition. Just saying.......there are always two ways to tell the same story.
Odd logic. Reliability isn't proven by a few good experiences, but by the lack of an inordinate amount of bad experiences. In this case there are enough separate examples of broken pistons to create a pattern that tells us there IS a reliability issue with these kits (and current Pinasco products in general, by various accounts). One counter-example does not a rule make.
Molto Verboso
One or two fun scoots....nothing too precious
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 1105
Location: UK (South East)
Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:30 pm quote
Frank, totally disagree. Your logic is very odd, because there is an unknown number of people out there that have had similar good experiences with Pinasco components. People tend not to post about things that just work on a forum like this, but they are very quick to be negative about something that breaks, which could, as we all know be a result of the component not having been fitted, broken in or maintained correctly.

Without hearing from many more people, we'll never know will we?
Hooked
Jet 200, P200E (x2), T5
Joined: 27 Jan 2013
Posts: 319
Location: Paris, France & L.A., Cal, USA
Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:07 pm quote
My point was that good experiences with these kits (or any modern engineered product) should be the norm, not some lucky break that should be celebrated.

You're right, people don't necessarily go around touting how great their Pinasco kit is, because pistons not auto-destroying is expected to be the default from a reputable company (and maybe satisfied customers are just hard to come by? ).

I notice yours is an early kit with the VRH head; I know someone else who runs one of those with no issue either. The other guy I know who broke 2 pistons has the same later kit with 8 holes as I do. Maybe there's a pattern with this particular generation of SS kits?
Molto Verboso
One or two fun scoots....nothing too precious
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 1105
Location: UK (South East)
Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:52 pm quote
I don't consider my experience to be a luck break. I just have no reason to fault the SS kit, and I've used and abused it. You may be right about the later kits. Whilst I cannot imagine the change of head has made any difference, the kits after 2015 do have a slightly different piston with two 'normal' rings. The older ones like mine have the 'L' ring at the top. Mine has always been run with pretty tall gearing (24/63) and 100/90 tyres. This keeps the revs to < 7500 in any gear. Maybe this has helped in my case.
Member
px244gs, cosa221LX, sprint177, gilera runner 180, triumph tiger 955
Joined: 09 Sep 2013
Posts: 43
Location: vienna/austria (the other one, w/o kangaroos)
Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:25 pm quote
zip wrote:
BEST 200cc CYLINDER RANKING by FMP:

available cylinder kits in alphabetical order:
malossi 210 sport
malossi 210 mhr
pinasco 213 super sport, 1 real port,
pinasco 215/225 9T, 3 real ports
polini 207 cast iron
polini 210 aluminum
quattrini M232
quattrini M244




But and what is best plug and play with 60 crankshaft now for mee ?
Why qouting the list
But not the conclusion?

Malossi sport 210 with head gasket is your first choice
Member
px244gs, cosa221LX, sprint177, gilera runner 180, triumph tiger 955
Joined: 09 Sep 2013
Posts: 43
Location: vienna/austria (the other one, w/o kangaroos)
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:20 pm quote
Ginch wrote:
swa45 wrote:
Yet my Pinasco Super Sport 225 has served me very well for the past five years, which includes a VERY tough tour of Spain in 2017 with a pillion and luggage, plus many other long rides at relatively high speed. Don't [blindly] buy into what FMP says about the Pinasco. I realise he is a very well respected and valuable Vespa expert, but others have had good experiences.

I changed the rings six weeks ago and the piston was in mint condition. Just saying.......there are always two ways to tell the same story.

PS. I have no reason to promote Pinasco products, other than they work well for me
Yes he's generally anti-Pinasco most of the time, although he doesn't admit to it. But having been on the receiving end of a broken piston that had done about 20,000km with absolutely no other issues left me a bit unimpressed. However when they do go, they go very well indeed.
mike mike mike

i really do wonder why you didnt get me/it by now?
even tough we had a loooot of personal chats over many years
u still did not get me and classify me still wrong

but, when i think of that you still believe that cosa lids are good
and the teninch clutch basket do not work.
No, i dont wonder when i am honest.


It would be really simple:
i am against bad hardware
I am PRO best hardware for your money
It f.. does not matter which brand it is.

again, extra for you:
it f... does not matter which brand it is.

all of the brands have products with potential
some less, some more (where u should be mors carefull!
It is not about a brand

Its about THE PRODUCTS.
i dont give a s.. about a specific brand.



Easier example:
I do like a good beer or two, three
I dont give a shit which brand
It needs be affordable, to work, to be tasty and get me drunk.
simple as that.

btw the DR 177 is as good as the quattrini M1X
and a sito original box also as good as a megadella BIG box
comeon, its very obvious that this is real.


(this is such a bad forum sftw, 25x submitting till. It gets trough)
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 6945
Location: Victoria, Australia
Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:56 am quote
I never said you were wrong, only that you have your opinions on Pinasco. Nothing wrong with that. I always appreciate your advice and commentry on FB and here, but sometimes I come to different conclusions than you. Stuff like that keeps the world spinning... until of course you fall off the edge!
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