GTS rear brakes-where did I go wrong? UPDATE
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 8320
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:11 pm quote
Doing a bunch of maintenance at once, but needed to change out my rear tire. While it was off, took a look at my rear brake pads, and because I wasn't quite sure what the heck I was looking at (from one perspective looked due), decided that once the wheel was off it was pretty easy to pull them, and even if they didn't need changing, I'd get some experience with the process for the inevitable...

Well, removal went fine, brake pads looked great for 12K, so put everything back together. Slipped the caliper back on tightened the bolts, assembled the rear pin..... and that's when things went south. First discovered that the brake lever was squishy, then found out that the wheel was locked as well. Loosening the caliper bolts relieved pressure and the disc would spin, tightening again locked the disc.

Brake feels like there's air in the line, but don't know how. The locking is a bit more concerning. I had gently pried the pads apart before assembly, but did I need to do more?

Thanks for your input!

Last edited by fledermaus on Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:44 pm; edited 3 times in total
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 37071
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:57 pm quote
Are you sure the wheel went back on correctly, with the washers in the correct order? That's pretty much the only way the rotor will get seized on the pads.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 8320
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
Sun Jun 09, 2019 3:04 pm quote
jimc wrote:
Are you sure the wheel went back on correctly, with the washers in the correct order? That's pretty much the only way the rotor will get seized on the pads.
The wheel is still off (taking it in to have the new tire mounted tomorrow) so it's just from attempting to turn the disc. Moved freely before I started...
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 37071
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Sun Jun 09, 2019 3:55 pm quote
The disc isn't seated properly until the wheel is back on and torqued up.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 8320
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
Sun Jun 09, 2019 4:30 pm quote
jimc wrote:
The disc isn't seated properly until the wheel is back on and torqued up.
AHA! So guessing it might have not been a problem if I would have reassembled everything first. In other circumstances it's a good way to have to disassemble everything again to make something right.

Guessing the brake sponginess has something to do with that as well.....

Fingers crossed...
Molto Verboso
2016 Vespa GTS300ie abs/asr/ess Settantesimo '70'
Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 1860
Location: Not really sure but I think somewhere in the engineering dept at Starfleet's UK HQ
Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:09 am quote
Yeah...I agree with Jim. You should be fine once it's torqued.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2010 Can Am Spyder RT-S, 2012 Honda NC700 DCT
Joined: 02 Mar 2013
Posts: 5129
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:34 am quote
Do NOT bleed the brakes at the same time you replace the pads.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 6743
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:27 am quote
Madison Sully wrote:
Do NOT bleed the brakes at the same time you replace the pads.
Actually you should bleed the brakes, then change the pads if needed. Keeps brake fluid off the new pads.
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 37071
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:50 am quote
WEB-Tech wrote:
Madison Sully wrote:
Do NOT bleed the brakes at the same time you replace the pads.
Actually you should bleed the brakes, then change the pads if needed. Keeps brake fluid off the new pads.
However, if you do, leave only the minimum amount of fluid in the reservoir until you've added the new pads and compressed them in place, otherwise there's a risk of inadvertently overflowing the reservoir.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2010 Can Am Spyder RT-S, 2012 Honda NC700 DCT
Joined: 02 Mar 2013
Posts: 5129
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:59 am quote
My reasoning here is, if the rotors have grooves worn in them, when you change the brake pads they will need to bed in. The lack of match between rotor and pad can make the brake lever squishy. So if the brake fluid was bled at the same time, one may think there is air in the line, and just keep bleeding and bleeding to get the lever to feel solid....
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 8320
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:42 pm quote
Have all of my maintenance taken care of...... wheel goes on tomorrow.

JimC, I'm still a bit sceptical, but let's hope you're right!

Stay tuned!
Veni, Vidi, Posti
LX190
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 5569
Location: New Zealand
Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:59 pm quote
fledermaus wrote:
JimC, I'm still a bit sceptical,
Are you new here?
Hooked
2016 BV350 White
Joined: 01 May 2010
Posts: 276
Location: East LA County, CA, USA
Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:59 pm quote
The brakes will be squishy until you squeeze the lever severals times after you put the wheel back on. Its normal.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 8320
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:49 pm quote
Okay...back together...

Thumbs up to jimc.... you were spot on...just as wheel nut was being snugged up, the wheel started rotating. WOOT!

And honorable mention to bean counter....squeeze or two of the brakes and they're back to normal.

Now to be sure it starts and test ride tomorrow...9 p.m. might be a bit obsessive.

Thanks all, for the sage advice and handholding....and znomit for the poke.
Molto Verboso
2016 Vespa GTS300ie abs/asr/ess Settantesimo '70'
Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 1860
Location: Not really sure but I think somewhere in the engineering dept at Starfleet's UK HQ
Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:11 am quote
Excellent fledermaus. It's posts like this that are really useful to folks. Well done for posting about it.
Addicted
2016 Sprint S 150 (his), 2016 Sprint 150 Blu Gaiola (hers), 2006 GTS 250 Excalibur Gray (hers), 2006 GTS 250 Black (his)
Joined: 21 Oct 2016
Posts: 598
Location: Vermont
Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:38 am quote
Nice going and nice reporting. See you in Lake Geneva!
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 8320
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:16 am quote
Stromrider wrote:
Excellent fledermaus. It's posts like this that are really useful to folks. Well done for posting about it.
Thanks, though just me bumbling along. You should have been listed in the credits. Not much glory though. Next time I'm up to my elbows in alligators I'll have people to blame for encouraging me.
Ossessionato
2016 Vespa GTS 300 i.e. ABS, 2010 Vespa GTS 300 ie Super & 2003 Honda Shadow VT750 ACE (sold) & 2006 Vespa LX150 (sold)
Joined: 18 Oct 2009
Posts: 2905
Location: Toronto (formerly Montreal)
Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:43 pm quote
fledermaus wrote:
Stromrider wrote:
Excellent fledermaus. It's posts like this that are really useful to folks. Well done for posting about it.
Thanks, though just me bumbling along. You should have been listed in the credits. Not much glory though. Next time I'm up to my elbows in alligators I'll have people to blame for encouraging me.
Very nice Dave! Threads like this are the lifeblood of MV.
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