Found these while changing my oil
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Hooked
2006 250ie
Joined: 13 Jun 2012
Posts: 260
Location: Bellingham, WA
Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:37 pm quote
All caught at the pre-filter. They seem like some sort of plastic. Any idea as to what they are from?

FC618C9F-E61E-42E0-BFE7-BC63A63E1EED.jpeg

Ossessionato
BV350, Primavera 150, Yamaha Zuma 125
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Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:54 pm quote
Teeth, from one of our Neanderthal ancestors.
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The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:57 pm quote
Could be oil pump gear teeth'n'bits. Have you ever found the oil smelling of gas, or the oil screen twisted and distorted?
Ossessionato
BV350, Primavera 150, Yamaha Zuma 125
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Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:58 pm quote
Another guess would be pieces of a guide for the timing chain, though I don't know whether Piaggio engines have them. I did see some things that looked like that in my son's Mini Cooper.
Hooked
2006 250ie
Joined: 13 Jun 2012
Posts: 260
Location: Bellingham, WA
Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:19 pm quote
jimc wrote:
Could be oil pump gear teeth'n'bits. Have you ever found the oil smelling of gas, or the oil screen twisted and distorted?
No smell of gas and the screen is not distorted. Are you thinking tensioner?
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The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 37558
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:35 pm quote
No, the actual oil pump gearing. It's plastic (at least it was, things may have changed of course). However, it doesn't sound like this is your problem (thank goodness).

I can remember there were a slew of Piaggio engines in the mid-noughties that suffered from gas in the oil. The symptoms were a strong smell of gas in the oil, a distorted screen, and if really unlucky, bits of yellow plastic caught in the screen - which meant a tear-down and new oil pump gears. All down to overheating because of faulty thermostats IIRC.
Hooked
2006 250ie
Joined: 13 Jun 2012
Posts: 260
Location: Bellingham, WA
Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:35 am quote
jimc wrote:
No, the actual oil pump gearing. It's plastic (at least it was, things may have changed of course). However, it doesn't sound like this is your problem (thank goodness).

I can remember there were a slew of Piaggio engines in the mid-noughties that suffered from gas in the oil. The symptoms were a strong smell of gas in the oil, a distorted screen, and if really unlucky, bits of yellow plastic caught in the screen - which meant a tear-down and new oil pump gears. All down to overheating because of faulty thermostats IIRC.
Well, with hope, these extra bits are not necessary as I am about to leave for a 3,000+ mile trip through the southwest.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Modded Vespa 2017 GTV 300, BMW 2017 C650GT, Ural 2019 Gear Up
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Location: Downtown Toronto
Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:12 am quote
Good luck? No time to go to the dealership beforehand? I wouldn't be "that" worried if the scoot seems to be running fine but it would be niggling.
Hooked
2006 250ie
Joined: 13 Jun 2012
Posts: 260
Location: Bellingham, WA
Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:28 am quote
Harbinger wrote:
Good luck? No time to go to the dealership beforehand? I wouldn't be "that" worried if the scoot seems to be running fine but it would be niggling.
Thanks. The local dealer seems to just carry Vespa as a side product and is not super knowledgeable when it comes to service. The scoot is running great and mpg is up around 69 and consistent. So nothing worrying (other than these odd bits). But yes, I’ll be on pins and needles—especially the first long four days getting down there.
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Modded Vespa 2017 GTV 300, BMW 2017 C650GT, Ural 2019 Gear Up
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Location: Downtown Toronto
Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:38 am quote
phaskins wrote:
Harbinger wrote:
Good luck? No time to go to the dealership beforehand? I wouldn't be "that" worried if the scoot seems to be running fine but it would be niggling.
Thanks. The local dealer seems to just carry Vespa as a side product and is not super knowledgeable when it comes to service. The scoot is running great and mpg is up around 69 and consistent. So nothing worrying (other than these odd bits). But yes, I’ll be on pins and needles—especially the first long four days getting down there.
I'd do the same as you but would see if maybe there are a few service places along the way in case you need to get a part over-nighted. Also look in to towing options just in case. Still yeah you should be OK and the first day is the real test. I wouldn't go ridding in the desert where you need to strap a gas can on or any though . Do let us know how it goes please.
Molto Verboso
2018 Vespa GTS 300 ABS- Bianco
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Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:48 am quote
Looks like a couple of long dead insects to me?

Cut into whatever ya got.
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2016 Vespa GTS300ie abs/asr/ess Settantesimo '70'
Joined: 11 Jun 2011
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Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:05 am quote
jimc wrote:
No, the actual oil pump gearing. It's plastic (at least it was, things may have changed of course). However, it doesn't sound like this is your problem (thank goodness).

I can remember there were a slew of Piaggio engines in the mid-noughties that suffered from gas in the oil. The symptoms were a strong smell of gas in the oil, a distorted screen, and if really unlucky, bits of yellow plastic caught in the screen - which meant a tear-down and new oil pump gears. All down to overheating because of faulty thermostats IIRC.
Yes Jim, and on the 500's the thermostat was sticking open and/not fully closing causing the engine to not warm up fully or take much too long to reach normal temperature causing the fuel injection system to remain on full rich for far to long. Because of this the engine temp was not being regulated during riding. This caused the symptoms you speak of, allowing neat petrol to wash down into the oil. The petrol acted as a solvent damaging the oil pump gears, which as you say were plastic, and damage to piston rings too ending the life of many motors far too early! I don't know if phaskins bike has plastic or metal gears.
Addicted
Joined: 29 Apr 2018
Posts: 702

Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:07 am quote
We are talking aprilia here? If not, early atlantics had same problems, scarabeos were okay, if i remember correctly. Scarabs had the fuel pump problems. Thanks
Ossessionato
2016 Vespa GTS300ie abs/asr/ess Settantesimo '70'
Joined: 11 Jun 2011
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Location: Starfleet Command, UK HQ
Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:45 am quote
Yeah, we are talking all earlier 500cc (460cc) Master engines in Piaggio X9's and the bikes you mention. I remember some fuel pump issues too which didn't help.
Addicted
Joined: 29 Apr 2018
Posts: 702

Sun Jun 09, 2019 3:23 am quote
Cool! My wifes scarab had tbe fuel pump, fuel line replaced, mine was after the recall years. The thermistat deal was terrible as was the voltage regulators on some early models. Thanks for the info!
Addicted
Joined: 29 Apr 2018
Posts: 702

Sun Jun 09, 2019 3:30 am quote
Those pieces almost look like pieces of the prefilter screen. The first oil change on my scoot was at ten years and 700 miles. The screen had turned brown i guess from being in oil all that time. Maybe the screen was never changed on the po scoot and the plastic broke.
Hooked
2006 250ie
Joined: 13 Jun 2012
Posts: 260
Location: Bellingham, WA
Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:59 am quote
Stromrider wrote:
jimc wrote:
No, the actual oil pump gearing. It's plastic (at least it was, things may have changed of course). However, it doesn't sound like this is your problem (thank goodness).

I can remember there were a slew of Piaggio engines in the mid-noughties that suffered from gas in the oil. The symptoms were a strong smell of gas in the oil, a distorted screen, and if really unlucky, bits of yellow plastic caught in the screen - which meant a tear-down and new oil pump gears. All down to overheating because of faulty thermostats IIRC.
Yes Jim, and on the 500's the thermostat was sticking open and/not fully closing causing the engine to not warm up fully or take much too long to reach normal temperature causing the fuel injection system to remain on full rich for far to long. Because of this the engine temp was not being regulated during riding. This caused the symptoms you speak of, allowing neat petrol to wash down into the oil. The petrol acted as a solvent damaging the oil pump gears, which as you say were plastic, and damage to piston rings too ending the life of many motors far too early! I don't know if phaskins bike has plastic or metal gears.
In my searching I came across what Jim was remembering. Fortunately, my plastic pre-filter is fully intact and the oil does not have any smell of fuel. Also, temp gauge readout is normal and the last fill up was 72mpg. So no real issues other than these odd bits caught at the filter. And they do strike me as odd, especially since my searches have yet to turn up anyone else that this has happened to.
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BV350, Primavera 150, Yamaha Zuma 125
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Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:09 am quote
Maybe it was in a new bottle of oil? Stuff happens.
Addicted
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Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:55 am quote
That is a scary thought!
Addicted
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Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:57 am quote
If it is from tbe strainer it could have come from a previos oil change by a po.
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Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:33 am quote
zigzagguzzi wrote:
That is a scary thought!
No big deal. That's what strainers and oil filters are for.
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2016 Vespa GTS300ie abs/asr/ess Settantesimo '70'
Joined: 11 Jun 2011
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Location: Starfleet Command, UK HQ
Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:55 pm quote
The oil strainer is a moulded part. When I've serviced GT/S's I've noticed several strainers have small bits of plastic on the end near the end neoprene seal, that are ready to break off. These are from the moulding process. Sometimes these bits of plastic are just hanging on by a thread. I always break them off before putting the strainer back. These can I suspect break off on their own inside the engine. They are usually small parts and do no harm. They won't for example get into the main oil gallery and cause an issue. They will of course get minced around abit and probably look like the op's bits of plastic!
Addicted
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Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:43 am quote
Yup!
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Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:34 am quote
zigzagguzzi wrote:
Those pieces almost look like pieces of the prefilter screen. The first oil change on my scoot was at ten years and 700 miles. The screen had turned brown i guess from being in oil all that time. Maybe the screen was never changed on the po scoot and the plastic broke.
Hope you didn't do that on purpose. Was it just sitting. Hopefully not be ridden.
Can inmagine the lack of lubrication in ten year old oil. And no additive protection for the metals in the engine.
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