Pinasco Alu 177 Timing
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Hooked
PX
Joined: 07 Feb 2016
Posts: 122
Location: Switzerland
Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:37 am quote
I was ranting and raving recently about the Pinasco 177 Alu being dissapointing. This opened up a bit of a philosophical discussion about expectations....
I say this as we cant always blame the parts when it often can be the expectations that were perhaps set too high..
With that said I still want to get the best out of the Pinasco before replacing it and Ive heard that some people have had good performance when set up correctly..
So the last discussion Id like to open is what timing have you set your Pinsaco at?
Im running at the recommended 19degrees but mine is:
A) Hard to start when cold..
B) Still has a flat spot..

With the 24mm Carb Ive tried everything but still no joy, so this is why Im pointing in the direction of the ignition..

Cheers Robbie..
Mr. Clean
P,SUPER,V90, 50 Special
Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 10207
Location: This is't my locker!
Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:07 pm quote
18 or 19 BTDC... I'd go w/ 19

I had one and if was a pleasure to ride until the piston skirt cracked and fell a apart.. I just cut it around the wrist pin, did the exact same thing to the other side, and it ran great... but regarding timing.. 18 or 19
Hooked
PX
Joined: 07 Feb 2016
Posts: 122
Location: Switzerland
Mon Oct 24, 2016 11:16 am quote
Thanks Vader..
Any experience with fitting an upgraded ignition, e.g, Pinasco-Flytech or similar?
If so are they worth the money?

Thanks
Robbie..
Addicted
Old douglas ..smallie with polini 115..super with nasco 177
Joined: 07 Nov 2013
Posts: 560
Location: New Zealand
Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:02 pm quote
Jetting?
Im on 18 degrees. Make sure you have a 48 /160 idle jet.....its a game changer for dialing in the 24/24 on 177 tunes.....
good luck
Addicted
'79 P200, '74 VBC Super, '80 100 Sport
Joined: 23 Jan 2012
Posts: 713
Location: 32 37' 40" N, 117 2' 53" W
Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:18 pm quote
Im gonna have to mess with my jetting too....my super is gurgling with the 24/24 and have contemplated putting the 20/20 back on.

played with some different stack combos couple weeks ago and work has interfered ever since. Im on day 17 with no days off......happens a couple times a year but continues to suck each time.
Addicted
Old douglas ..smallie with polini 115..super with nasco 177
Joined: 07 Nov 2013
Posts: 560
Location: New Zealand
Mon Oct 24, 2016 1:30 pm quote
24/24 rules 20/20
I had a huge improvement after going from a 20 20 on super (with 177) to a 24/24 and wont go back

Use the big PX air filter and drill out the heart.
BE3 atomiser
Get a richer throttle slide (the cut out on the under side alters air flow at mid range revs
48 /160 idle jet (24/24 often uses the 55/160 so swap it for 48/160)
approx. 122 to 125 main jet
140 air corrector

all on sip road pipe.....the same scoot has had three different pipes over the years and only the main jet got changed ...ie Baja ( 98)pipe to sito plus (102) to sip road 122main (seems huge but that s what it likes)

smooth acceleration to the end of ,and in all gears

good luck
Addicted
'79 P200, '74 VBC Super, '80 100 Sport
Joined: 23 Jan 2012
Posts: 713
Location: 32 37' 40" N, 117 2' 53" W
Mon Oct 24, 2016 2:12 pm quote
sick! thanks Bluecati

I will try your setup and see what happens.

Currently I have the drilled (super) filter, 24/24, SIP Road II, pinasco 177 on a 2 port super. have been messing with jetting and stack. I was running a 116, then tried 112 and 110. have adjusted timing....

will try your combo and see what happens. Thank You !


Mathias
Addicted
Old douglas ..smallie with polini 115..super with nasco 177
Joined: 07 Nov 2013
Posts: 560
Location: New Zealand
Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:31 pm quote
Dont forget the different throttle slides
Good one
I spent months up jetting. plug chopping,changing timing etc and still had a flat spot and gurgling

Swapped out the idle jet to the 48 /160....and instantly the scoot was fixed.

I just built an identical engine and copied the jetting.....beautiful first time.

NB I emailed Pinasco 2 years agoand got some pigeon English to the effect ("of course you altered your slide")..which got me researching that topic.Not many peeps here talk about different throttle slides....we all touched on it a few months ago during my "Pinasco fiasco"......newbies be aware that some throttle slides have more metal cut out of the base....which can richen or lean out the midrange revs depending on choice.....SIP do a nice article

I cant remember the numbers (at work) but know for sure I put a richer slide in the 24/24 than was stock.

Do Idle jet first..evaluate..and then do the slide and evaluate
Addicted
Honda elite
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 567
Location: California
Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:50 am quote
I am using the 3 port Alu Pinasco kit on my 1963 GL. I have added the 3rd transfer port to the case. The engine has an overdrive primary, a 24/24G carburetor, electronic ignition and BGM BIG Box. Ignition timing is 18/19 BTDC. The scooter is a pleasure to drive.
Hooked
PX
Joined: 07 Feb 2016
Posts: 122
Location: Switzerland
Tue Oct 25, 2016 10:33 am quote
Bloody Hell.. I didnt expect such a response...
Thanks very much to all for the feedback. Ive already spent hours playing with the carb but have missed a few points by the sounds of it.
I never thought about changing the slider.
I will stick to the recommendations and hopefully I should be on the right way.

Thanks again... its times like this that a forum can save a lot of headaches
Hooked
PX
Joined: 07 Feb 2016
Posts: 122
Location: Switzerland
Mon Oct 31, 2016 11:20 am quote
Sorry to open this up again but I have some info that may also help others with the same problem.
I havent checked this my self but will do when I have a spare minute..

I had an Email from one of the team at Scooter Center Koln who gave me some useful info.
Quote: "The autolube carb only comes with an additional hole at the bottom. To run this carb w/o autolube I always close this hole with a self cutting stud screw, metric M4.
Otherwise the engine could show the behavior of an air leak, because the Oil drain is underneath of the slide.
To check the two types of the SI24, you have to take a closer look to the Oil drain hole at the bottom of the carb.
If it is drilled thru or not.


Here is a photo of the hole that should be blocked (blue arrow).


Also he gave a clear explanation about the different letters used to define the different carb types.

D= SI20, small body
E= SI24, large body, auto lube and pre mix
H=SI24, large body, e-choke and e-fueltap
G=SI24, large body, short intake (Vespa T5)[img][/img]

May help someone..

Cheers Robbie

24mm Autolube Hole.jpg

Hooked
PX
Joined: 07 Feb 2016
Posts: 122
Location: Switzerland
Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:10 am quote
Thanks for all the Replies and Help...

I have today finally taken the carb to pieces and found a few things...

The Idle Jet is 55/160 instead of the recommended 48/160
The slider is also standard with the largest cut-out (leaner).
I have the open hole for the Pre-Mix so I will need to close the hole.

I guess its quite simple when you think about it.
The standard Si 24 carb is set up for the 200 motor...
Even though a 177 kitted motor has similar performance it probably needs slightly less fuel due to the less cc....

Will let you know how I get on with the carb adjustments..

Cheers
Robbie
Hooked
PX 150
Joined: 15 Sep 2006
Posts: 480
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:52 pm quote
Robbie variable timing is inevitable on any kit other than standard in my book. Ive lived without it for way to long and discovered you can run very lean crisp jetting and retard yout timing back to around 18-19 static.
This will then pull back your timing to around 14-13 degreee depending on your setup, pipe etc. You will gain mote overrev and drastically reduce head temperature. Fast highway crusing will be easy and in town slow running will be crisp and smooth because it will be more advanced at these lower revs.
Hooked
PX125E
Joined: 06 Oct 2018
Posts: 143
Location: Gravesend, Kent, UK
Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:46 pm quote
Hello.
another mod which Jack221 recommended on some thread was for the Pinasco kit a 60mm stroke crank and 1.5 mm base packer is worth the effort.
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