VIN Help!
Post Reply    Forum -> Not-So-Modern Previous12
Author Message
Member
Not sure
Joined: 13 Jun 2019
Posts: 16
Location: Massachusetts
Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:05 pm quote
[quote="pheasant plucker"]
aerona87 wrote:
V oodoo wrote:
Is it worth the effort to restore? The engine is in good condition. It came with a title based on the Aluminum Plate.
The 'issue' is a culture clash. Three of them. German, American - and SEA got dragged in to the discussion as well. This bike has been modified - you know this. Likely in Germany - that's what they do. Unlikely in SEA (IMO) - as the modifications done there are bodgey and fairly typical/easy to spot. But now the bike is in the States and the culture there tends to favour US bikes restored to original specs.

IMO the hardest part to achieve is done - it has a title (despite a weird frame number). What do you want from the bike? A solid classic ride? A perfect original spec super? If the later is your goal then walk away.

How clean do you want the frame? Like panel and paint tidy? Cause that is where the biggest cost/time will be. Can't see any rust bad enough to need welding - need to check under the floor, but looks like the paint is coming away from superficial rust (rather than proper rot).

Do you like the colour?

If so... clean it, then Penetrol the crap out of it (inside and out). Done.

If not... then acid dip it and figure how to panel and paint from there. Time and $$$.

From what I'm seeing this bike looks pretty sweet. Yes 10" on a super is a done thing. Many would argue a good thing for stability and looks better (but others counter argue 8" are original, and many like the look and agility).

I think the odds are you did ok.
Pheasant Plucker,
This is what I needed. I'm looking for a project and hope to get my hands dirty. My original interest is the engine work, but now I'm excited for the whole thing. The discussion about culture was interesting; thank you for the perspective. I'm looking to make it look nice and work well. I'm not set on original or anything like that.
Member
Not sure
Joined: 13 Jun 2019
Posts: 16
Location: Massachusetts
Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:08 pm quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
Quote:
What do you want from the bike?
That’s really the question. If you’re just planning to putt up and down the street occasionally, it might be a fun project. If you’re looking for daily transportation or hoping to put serious mileage on it, go on tours and trips, etc. I’d think twice.

The glove box, the mismatched frame & engine, the chopped off vin, the inch thick cracking bondo/paint, the ripples, and rust pits all scream sketchy. I see $$$ and headaches downstream, but if you’re willing to take it on, go for it! There are a lot worse ways to spend your time.
I like your last statement. I bought it to learn a lot and I certainly have already. Next time I'll be smarter, but from what I've read today I think I will go ahead. Money wise, it would not be smart probably but I think the effort is worth it in the end. Nothing like an original spec bike, but something fun to have to ride around occasionally.
Addicted
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: 01 Sep 2017
Posts: 620
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:40 pm quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
Quote:
What do you want from the bike?
That’s really the question. If you’re just planning to putt up and down the street occasionally, it might be a fun project. If you’re looking for daily transportation or hoping to put serious mileage on it, go on tours and trips, etc. I’d think twice.

The glove box, the mismatched frame & engine, the chopped off vin, the inch thick cracking bondo/paint, the ripples, and rust pits all scream sketchy. I see $$$ and headaches downstream, but if you’re willing to take it on, go for it! There are a lot worse ways to spend your time.
That engine/frame mismatch is not typical of any SEA bodge that I know of...

The vin may or may not have been chopped off. The aluminum VIN may or may not be authentic. But it has a title so who gives a...

The possible bondo/filler is on the legshield/floor section. The most wear and tear part of the frame. Could've easily had impact damage or rust that whoever painted it that army grey/green filled... not perfectly it seems.

The inside of the frame looks to have original baby blue vespa paint...

The pipe looks like a JL leftie. A design copied in SEA... but those copies are usually bought worldwide. The fact it hasn't rusted out completely means it might be a legit pipe.

The glove box... has been cut to take a spare. And who knows if and why the frame has been trimmed on the left.

For sure this bike has been modified. And then driven a lot. The signs on this bike look like wear and tear. SEA bodges are shinny with few dents if any.

My theory... some German kid scored the super... dropped a better engine for 10" plus pipe, stuck a spare on the side so he could visit his squeeze in France (and another squeeze in Italy). Maybe there was an issue with getting it vinned there so he sussed out some trick that involved putting a different number on it - cut the original off so it didn't look ground away. Tricked both the German DMV... and now USA DMV too. He's got style so painted it that legit army green/grey with black trim, realising that the baby blue wasn't gonna do anything for his pulling power (European girls also have style).

This doesn't look like it ever lived its life as a putt up and down the street scooter. This toured. If this scooter was in Australia or NZ it would get snatched up.

See... this scooter has had a spare mounted for quite some period of time riding... Maybe got removed when the 12v added. You shouldn't get rust there unless that back wheel has been turning.

Anyway... that's my theory. But sticking with this ain't seen the shores of SEA. Just none of the actual hallmarks. Modded for sure - to make it betterer. Then it got ridden and worn.

img_20190613_201300_12777.jpg

Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7512
Location: seattle/athens
Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:45 am quote
^^^I like pp's story, it seems to fill in all the gaps. Maybe undiscovered problems ahead, but I'm glad you want to go for it. If it's essentially 'solid', you will get the help you need here as you uncover those problems and move ahead.

Quote:
I'm looking for a project and hope to get my hands dirty. My original interest is the engine work, but now I'm excited for the whole thing. The discussion about culture was interesting; thank you for the perspective. I'm looking to make it look nice and work well. I'm not set on original or anything like that.
I think you just described 90% of MY bikes! But enough speculation, it's time for diagnosis and more pics. I repeat:
V oodoo wrote:
Time to get out the coarse sandpaper and a block. Sooner or later it's going to have to be addressed. Rusty hole or poorly patched dent?

https://www.amazon.com/Ospho-605-Metal-Treatment/dp/B000C02CDG

Get yourself some of this or similar and start killing that rust. Here's a similar project just finished - Goal was to fix the mechanicals 100% and get it 'presentable' including dealing with ALL the rust, you can see the treated and untreated sides.



rust.jpg

Addicted
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: 01 Sep 2017
Posts: 620
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:15 am quote
Knock back the worst but leave as much of that paint on as you can. Don't remove any 'flat' rust. Cut and polish. Clean the bike with turps (ordourless for your sake). Paint the inside of the frame, tube tunnel etc with Penetrol first (spray it in however you can, keep the bike upright and deal with any excess runs that come through the floor runners - try to get it all through those runners too tho). Then take a quality bush and apply a coat of Penetrol to the outside - keep it as thin as possible while getting it all wet - any thick spots, runs, or pooling will show so keep it tidy. Let it dry for a few days, keep dust off it.

Do this, and the paint that's on it will be reconditioned and even stick better. The rust will be preserved - it will not keep going. The surface will harden but remains glossy. Don't need more than one coat - will just be harder to get a smooth finish. Apply again to any knicks or rust as you see.

Sorry about this URL:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/FLOOD-PPG-FLD4-04-Penetrol-Additive-N-A/312599034352?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item48c85ab9f0:g:fFUAAOSwOGBc6Dmh&enc=AQADAAAB0KX%2FKt4E1xf3SDqEdBclaYZSVObynWn75ZEU%2F3JXmMvnOLHgnX2aL6XAU8J2UAsqj%2FdOlNv5YbKtWQCkpYWvqDOUiM4cV8xH9%2FZiCx2mgmdDMydRkAeXUBphpa%2F98av7%2BcTLMdG%2FhTzR%2FslS7aBxM6swMZAHzsAeHNcG11lLwcGhghJeZkOHbJGL28dVxAjTOAKI1N1k5CICSOU4FoudJFOTZ1hPe%2FqVlfqjc8toopn4jEarSh8yrKA8IIymDv91ZcMIC3cqtChAeDT1o8AoRyYt9lwAWV9D92VHPu2t7fVPbpIxkYu9LEv1zkaIXVnDudh%2B7fRXL5k2MzxuBgOoBbsp1TWOBCs2clDVPHRmkYQBdaty%2BTKQ%2B2WcIIiz%2Fk5pNq8Pi7kdWEhupRoTZpbReaKdpwDbsux%2FMVONu4dXJMJ%2F3MLd4bzObXunxvv1DW2Kinuun%2FLAStt6YtjmCPIGDtozxWfs728Wj%2BTvRPGnoZl9vi4PK%2FFkZRoBA%2B0uc7mxaItJrn7fPGa6myrPLdHGpaUpOrXKUXl8Hw4vAtPSbCfGj2dUT198eygT7s9SD6jPZYipHI5tDcmscNxDh%2F%2BcWXmEnXWaBMRL9Lz9j6PjNoop&checksum=3125990343528603f823d32e477e917148a1b8db3bf5&frcectupt=true
Addicted
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: 01 Sep 2017
Posts: 620
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:29 pm quote
More evidence that this is a German ‘bodge’...

“One notable example of this early "G.L." would be the German market "Vespa Touring," of which many were made. However, none of these early "G.L." market-specific models were officially imported to the U.S.”

Seems these engines are more plentiful in Germany than elsewhere.

It’s a bit of a shame it’s a 2-port engine... but guessing Jack221 and others can give you the info how to get this flying.

http://scooterlounge.com/vespa/buyers-guide/vespa-gl.shtml
Molto Verboso
1980 P125X, 1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1448
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:31 pm quote
Looking forward to watching this evolve!
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4200
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:26 pm quote
About a year ago I was contacted by a friend of a friend. This person, a very bright woman, was told I work on Vespas and would I consider looking at the one she picked up? I was between projects so I agreed. The scoot looked much like the one you have - many, many layers of paint. She mainly wanted a refresh on the cosmetics. And it also needed the usual things - cables, brakes, lines, all the rubber bits, etc. There was a donor Stella engine to be installed by someone else (yeah I know). Short way out for me was to strip it, take it to a powdercoater I know, have it media blasted and then access the frame to see if it was worth continuing. Surprisingly, only a few holes showed up there were drilled, not rust. Got the holes welded up, smoothed out and coated.
I guess if you are going to go that far into it you may consider getting it blasted as well. That way you will see what you have underneath it all.
Addicted
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: 01 Sep 2017
Posts: 620
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:52 pm quote
I reckon media blasting is for engine parts. Chem strip the frame ftw. Can't media blast the tunnel, under the horn cover, in the floor runners...

I'd stick with that paint job until you have that scooter going and stopping. Can always strip it later... but once you strip it, you gotta deal with it.

I've been forced to strip because of rust that needed welding.

Your other option would be to join the bare metal crew... ;P
Land of 10,000 Scoots Rally   vespa scooterwest scooter west Motorsport Scooters   Scooter Parts Company
Post Reply    Forum -> Not-So-Modern Previous12
[ Time: 0.1602s ][ Queries: 27 (0.0457s) ][ Debug on ]