front wheels wearing fast
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Enthusiast
2009 MP3 400ie
Joined: 31 May 2016
Posts: 66
Location: philippines
Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:22 am quote
hello guys my front tires wears from the inside has anyone of you experienced this? How can I correct this problem. we dont have a dealer here in the philippines so no way i can use the Jig. any help will be appreciated.

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Veni, Vidi, Posti
Neutrino MP3 492.7 AK, 2013 Moto Guzzi Norge
Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 21250
Location: Harriman, Tennessee, Tn
Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:22 am quote
your NOT having any significant inside wear for alignment issues.

You have just rode them past the wear bar limits and those last few miles really wear fast when exceeding the wear bars.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2010 Can Am Spyder RT-S, 2012 Honda NC700 DCT
Joined: 02 Mar 2013
Posts: 5236
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:25 am quote
Looks like good even wear.

How many miles / km on them?

Also depends on the roads; some are more abrasive than others.

I got ~20,000 miles on the last set of fronts on my MP3 500.
Hooked
Piaggio MP3 500
Joined: 21 Nov 2017
Posts: 176
Location: Austin, TX
Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:14 am quote
An alignment issue with the MP3 wouldn't necessarily show the same as in a car- the tires are round profile rather than flat. What you would see is tires that wear too fast, wear flat with a bias toward the side that is away from the scrubbing. Exactly like the OP's tires- the inside is definitely worn more than the outside- look at the top of the tire in the second picture to see the slope of the profile. And the center is worn very flat. Like the tires are severely toed out- pointed out in different directions- so the insides of the tires get scrubbed more than the outsides.

If it were my bike I would do two things in the following order:

1) Align it. I think the proper alignment is slightly toed-in rather than toed-out, but the service manual will have the procedure. You probably don't need the special tool, which just measures how parallel the front wheels are- any method that measures the distance between the fronts of the wheels versus the backs of the wheels would be fine. The correct difference is something like 1/8 inch, and from the tire wear it looks like about a half-inch in the wrong direction. It's likely that something is bent, likely the tie rod. Final alignment is done by adding or subtracting washers at the end of the tie rod.
2) Replace those tires. They look dangerous.
Molto Verboso
Kymco AK550
Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 1088
Location: UK
Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:22 am quote
I wouldn't read too much into the wear pattern. Those tyres are just worn out. They could have been run overinflated but if they have done anything more than 4000 to 5000 miles the wear would be normal. Road camber will always cause uneven wear. My experience of the 400ie suggests that steering behaviour gets worse after about 3000 miles for both front and rear even if the fronts have some tread left.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 6970
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:31 am quote
Squeazel wrote:
An alignment issue with the MP3 wouldn't necessarily show the same as in a car- the tires are round profile rather than flat. What you would see is tires that wear too fast, wear flat with a bias toward the side that is away from the scrubbing. Exactly like the OP's tires- the inside is definitely worn more than the outside- look at the top of the tire in the second picture to see the slope of the profile. And the center is worn very flat. Like the tires are severely toed out- pointed out in different directions- so the insides of the tires get scrubbed more than the outsides.

If it were my bike I would do two things in the following order:

1) Align it. I think the proper alignment is slightly toed-in rather than toed-out, but the service manual will have the procedure. You probably don't need the special tool, which just measures how parallel the front wheels are- any method that measures the distance between the fronts of the wheels versus the backs of the wheels would be fine. The correct difference is something like 1/8 inch, and from the tire wear it looks like about a half-inch in the wrong direction. It's likely that something is bent, likely the tie rod. Final alignment is done by adding or subtracting washers at the end of the tie rod.
2) Replace those tires. They look dangerous.
Toe in should be 0 on the mp3.
Hooked
MP3 hpe 500 sport Advanced " Missy "
Joined: 21 Dec 2018
Posts: 178
Location: west Germany
Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:54 am quote
It looks like the camber is also off a bit. See how the left tire from the front view is leaning in a bit? Definitely needs a camber adjustment.
Addicted
2018 LIBERTY 150S
Joined: 26 Jul 2013
Posts: 682
Location: Ohio
Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:30 am quote
Missing one important fact : How many miles on these tires?

O.S.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Neutrino MP3 492.7 AK, 2013 Moto Guzzi Norge
Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 21250
Location: Harriman, Tennessee, Tn
Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:04 pm quote
Hillbilly Fred wrote:
It looks like the camber is also off a bit. See how the left tire from the front view is leaning in a bit? Definitely needs a camber adjustment.
can't judge it really as you don't know how the scoot is leaning on the tilt lock. Also could have a slight slope in the pavement.
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 37276
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:51 pm quote
old as dirt wrote:
Hillbilly Fred wrote:
It looks like the camber is also off a bit. See how the left tire from the front view is leaning in a bit? Definitely needs a camber adjustment.
can't judge it really as you don't know how the scoot is leaning on the tilt lock. Also could have a slight slope in the pavement.
Also there is lots of parallax error - and we don't know the spec of the lens etc...

Judging alignment on photos is a mug's game.


The tyres are buggered, and I'd say it was pretty criminal to allow them to get to that state. How many miles or kilometres on them?
Enthusiast
2009 MP3 400ie
Joined: 31 May 2016
Posts: 66
Location: philippines
Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:40 pm quote
thank you guys for your replies
This will be my 3rd time to replace my front tires since Nov 2018 (every 3 months) I only used up 2000km on each replacements and they looked like that everytime i replaced them.
Molto Verboso
Kymco AK550
Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 1088
Location: UK
Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:37 am quote
Re: thank you guys for your replies
envirosolarmate wrote:
This will be my 3rd time to replace my front tires since Nov 2018 (every 3 months) I only used up 2000km on each replacements and they looked like that everytime i replaced them.
Poor quality tyres or a riding style which hammers the brakes at every opportunity. How often do your brake pads wear out? What pressure do you run the tyres at?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 6970
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:32 am quote
Hillbilly Fred wrote:
It looks like the camber is also off a bit. See how the left tire from the front view is leaning in a bit? Definitely needs a camber adjustment.
Well then it is totalled because there is no camber adjustment on the MP3.
You have a great eye telling wheel alignment from a photo when shops use a measuring tape at the very least
Hooked
Piaggio MP3 500
Joined: 21 Nov 2017
Posts: 176
Location: Austin, TX
Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:51 am quote
I would bet something is bent. Front tires last a long time on these things if they're in alignment. And they tend to wear with less of a flat spot than the rear tire.

First thing I would do is check whether it's toed in or out. I'll bet that it's toed out, and not a little.
Enthusiast
2009 MP3 400ie
Joined: 31 May 2016
Posts: 66
Location: philippines
Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:11 am quote
Squeazel wrote:
I would bet something is bent. Front tires last a long time on these things if they're in alignment. And they tend to wear with less of a flat spot than the rear tire.

First thing I would do is check whether it's toed in or out. I'll bet that it's toed out, and not a little.
how to do a toe check? and where should i adjust for toe in and toe out
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 6970
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:14 am quote
Measure from center of the tire tread in the front and center of tire tread in the back at axel height. Should be the same if toe is supposed to be 0.

For adjustment there are washers on the tie rods that can be moved around to get proper alignment.
Ossessionato
2016 MP3/500 Sport ABS, 2009 MP3/250, 2012 GTS Super 300ie
Joined: 08 Jul 2011
Posts: 4193
Location: Marietta, GA
Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:22 am quote
Re: thank you guys for your replies
envirosolarmate wrote:
This will be my 3rd time to replace my front tires since Nov 2018 (every 3 months) I only used up 2000km on each replacements and they looked like that everytime i replaced them.
Now if you said 20,000km I would say normal for fronts.
I have two MP3's, and I average about 12,000 to 18,000 miles on the front, and about 6000 miles on the rear.

Maybe its your tires? Try and purchase Michelin City Grips.

Keith,
Marietta, GA
Veni, Vidi, Posti
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2010 Can Am Spyder RT-S, 2012 Honda NC700 DCT
Joined: 02 Mar 2013
Posts: 5236
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:25 am quote
Try this: Lift one of the front wheels and try to move it laterally as if to turn the scooter.

You can tilt the bike a ways, then lock the tilt-lock, then put the scooter on its centerstand. In this way one wheel is elevated. (Handy trick when changing tires, too.)

Reason I suggest to do this is to see if there is play in the steering ball-joints.

Do this before trying to check straightness.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2010 Can Am Spyder RT-S, 2012 Honda NC700 DCT
Joined: 02 Mar 2013
Posts: 5236
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:27 am quote
Re: thank you guys for your replies
envirosolarmate wrote:
This will be my 3rd time to replace my front tires since Nov 2018 (every 3 months) I only used up 2000km on each replacements and they looked like that everytime i replaced them.
2000 km is CRAZY low mileage for a set of fronts. I do this many kms in two weeks during the summer, just going to work!
Hooked
MP3 hpe 500 sport Advanced " Missy "
Joined: 21 Dec 2018
Posts: 178
Location: west Germany
Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:24 pm quote
WEB-Tech wrote:
Hillbilly Fred wrote:
It looks like the camber is also off a bit. See how the left tire from the front view is leaning in a bit? Definitely needs a camber adjustment.
Well then it is totalled because there is no camber adjustment on the MP3.
You have a great eye telling wheel alignment from a photo when shops use a measuring tape at the very least
Thanks for the compliment WEB-Tech. I am learned Mechanic and I do have quite a bit of experience with Wheel alignment .
Hooked
Piaggio MP3 500
Joined: 21 Nov 2017
Posts: 176
Location: Austin, TX
Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:58 pm quote
To measure, I'd get a pipe clamp and go to the front of the tires and tighten the clamp until it just hits the outside of both rims. Then try not to change anything as you remove the clamp and measure between the jaws. Then do the same to the back of the front tires. The difference is the toe in or out. That way you're measuring the rims rather than the tires.
Molto Verboso
Kymco AK550
Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 1088
Location: UK
Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:24 am quote
Subtle differences in steering geometry won't wear both tyres like that. These are probably very poor quality ( possibly remoulds?) and/or have been run at very high pressure ( for example 2.3 bar rather than 23 psi ). Any other explanation would make a noticeable difference to the handling and fuel consumption of the machine.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Neutrino MP3 492.7 AK, 2013 Moto Guzzi Norge
Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 21250
Location: Harriman, Tennessee, Tn
Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:41 am quote
roadster wrote:
Subtle differences in steering geometry won't wear both tyres like that. These are probably very poor quality ( possibly remoulds?) and/or have been run at very high pressure ( for example 2.3 bar rather than 23 psi ). Any other explanation would make a noticeable difference to the handling and fuel consumption of the machine.
yes, and it would be nice to know the speed and load ratings of those tires.
Enthusiast
2009 MP3 400ie
Joined: 31 May 2016
Posts: 66
Location: philippines
Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:08 am quote
i just replaced my 2 front tires Pirelli Angel Scooter 120 70 12.. what would be the recommended tire pressure for the front and back in PSI please thank you
Molto Verboso
Kymco AK550
Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 1088
Location: UK
Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:55 pm quote
envirosolarmate wrote:
i just replaced my 2 front tires Pirelli Angel Scooter 120 70 12.. what would be the recommended tire pressure for the front and back in PSI please thank you
Front 1.6 bar = 23.2 PSI
Rear 2.5 bar = 36.3 PSI

These are the figures from the manual but people often run the front a little higher ( 24 to 25 psi ) mostly to protect rims from damage from severe pot-holes.
Enthusiast
2009 MP3 400ie
Joined: 31 May 2016
Posts: 66
Location: philippines
Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:46 pm quote
roadster wrote:
envirosolarmate wrote:
i just replaced my 2 front tires Pirelli Angel Scooter 120 70 12.. what would be the recommended tire pressure for the front and back in PSI please thank you
Front 1.6 bar = 23.2 PSI
Rear 2.5 bar = 36.3 PSI

These are the figures from the manual but people often run the front a little higher ( 24 to 25 psi ) mostly to protect rims from damage from severe pot-holes.
I got it mate thanks much for the info.
Molto Verboso
MP3 500
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 1291
Location: Utah
Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:43 pm quote
You may just have old tires, what are their manufacture date?
Hooked
2008 fuoco.T3 guzzi california outfit
Joined: 19 Jul 2015
Posts: 185
Location: United Kingdom.
Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:03 pm quote
TheOP question was asked if any one else had experienced the problem and it would seem not as no one said yes. The op has been asked for details of tyres and what pressures he's useing ,he has not given any details.he's gone through 2 sets of front tyres in 4000 km and is now putting another set of tyres on ! i assume the OP has found out what the problem was then.
Ossessionato
Gilera Fuoco 500ie
Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 4032
Location: Netherlands Olst
Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:45 am quote
the left front leg is bend and the wheels are also not alligned need to have toe in yours does have toe out

camber is off /- -\ did you got it new ???
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