Smallframe XL2 style clutch - what do I need?
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Hooked
Joined: 29 Feb 2012
Posts: 134
Location: San Francisco
Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:46 pm quote
Hi,

Planning a build with an XL2 style clutch for my smallframe (ET3).
What do I need apart from the Newfren clutch;
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/clutch+newfren+race+for+vespa+_93495000
and the SIP cover;
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/clutch+cover+sip+for+vespa+_28615000

SIP's website lists woodruff key, clutch nut, locking washers, reinforced springs and friction plates. What else should be on the shopping list?

Thanks!
Addicted
Old douglas ..smallie with polini 115..super with nasco 177
Joined: 07 Nov 2013
Posts: 548
Location: New Zealand
Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:12 pm quote
all the bits
You will need all the little clutch bits separately..wire pin, push plate with bearings.lock washer,new nut and maybe even the brass push rod inside the cover. ..... when I ordered the cover i didnt realise the cover came WITHOUT the lever or spring..so double check what actually comes with the cover....the brass push rod on the inside of the cover may come with it.

sooooo check what comes WITH the cover so you dont double up
good luck
Addicted
Old douglas ..smallie with polini 115..super with nasco 177
Joined: 07 Nov 2013
Posts: 548
Location: New Zealand
Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:20 pm quote
aaaaaand
On the inside end of the clutch lever(for an Xl2 )are some splines. There is a small metal part that looks like a "number 6" that slots over these splines.
This may NOT be included in the cover.

The job of this "number 6" is to act on the thrust plate (the types with bearings mmmmmm)...so its vital and unique....ask if that is a separate part..you need it.good luck.

....it WILL give an easy to pull by hand clutch that holds up under load and revs mmmmmmmmmmm
Addicted
Old douglas ..smallie with polini 115..super with nasco 177
Joined: 07 Nov 2013
Posts: 548
Location: New Zealand
Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:39 pm quote
more
...that little "number 6" bit is SIP art 8380700.....you will also need to see if the XL2 lever comes with its own O ring....or perhaps its ( o ring)up inside the cover already.

the obscure bits to get are....actuator 8380700.....the lever its self....and an o ring for the lever

......ohhh and does the cover come with bearing inside it (for the lever)or is that another separate order?

you have some questions to check before you pounce
Hooked
GS160
Joined: 11 Jun 2014
Posts: 265
Location: Åland
Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:48 pm quote
You can use your original smallframe clutch cover if you modify it like in the (hopefully) attached picture. You can also use the original push plate and brass plunger. All you will have to buy is the clutch itself.

I don't remember if you have to shorten the plunger but it will show.

If you are going the expensive route you will also have to buy the cable guide (for the clutch- and brakecable) as the clutch lever on PKXL2 cover sits much lower.

xl2modifieringvanligtlock.JPG

Addicted
Old douglas ..smallie with polini 115..super with nasco 177
Joined: 07 Nov 2013
Posts: 548
Location: New Zealand
Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:06 pm quote
More deets please
Hey Vespoholic can you elaborate on that clutch plate mod so a standard cover can be used with XL2 clutch
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 50s x2 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 6882
Location: seattle/athens
Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:26 pm quote
Biggest difference between the XL2 and older style 'plunger' is that the XL2 is rack & pinion which pushes into a ball bearing clutch release. The older ones have a cam pushing the brass plunger into a hardened steel clutch release disk like a largeframe. This means the rack & pinion will have a constant force throughout its travel but the cam setup will have a definite sweet spot where you get the most force. That's one of the main reasons why they are easier to operate.

It is a nice system, but expensive to go full XL2. This hack using the old cover is what I'd do with just the XL2 clutch. But then I like to use these, so makes finding that sweet spot much easier.
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1123
Location: Florence, OR
Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:11 pm quote
V oodoo wrote:
But then I like to use these, so makes finding that sweet spot much easier.
I agree Voodoo! These shift and brake levers are awesome and make finding the perfect pull a breeze. I'm so glad I forked over the cash and splurged on a pair.
Hooked
GS160
Joined: 11 Jun 2014
Posts: 265
Location: Åland
Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:37 pm quote
Re: More deets please
Bluecati wrote:
Hey Vespoholic can you elaborate on that clutch plate mod so a standard cover can be used with XL2 clutch
I have not done it myself, unfortunately I read it after I had bought and installed both clutch and clutch cover for PKXL2.

In this thread

http://www.scooterklubben.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=7862&hilit=XL2

MammaScan states that he took 2 mm from the plunger and 2 mm from the rim of the hole where the plunger sits, and that was it. See the picture.

I have also read somewhere else that you should buy Piaggio clutch for best chance of non-rubbing in the primary. Or you modify.

In my opinion it's worth a try if you have the standard clutch cover, to mod it I mean. You can still use it with standard clutch if you have a standard length plunger. Again according to MammaScan.


Here's some more but I like the Swedish thread more. And not because it is my native language..


http://vespasmallframeforum.proboards.com/thread/16803
Member
'81 Special, '78 P150X, '13 LML Star 200
Joined: 30 Nov 2018
Posts: 40
Location: Ukraine
Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:28 am quote
XL2 in V5B3T
Yesterday I assembled my engine and installed the XL2 clutch with a DRT Cobra basket.

When I just attached a standard clutch cover and rotated the crankshaft - I heard it like a basket or clutch(?) rubbing against the clutch cover.

One of the solutions to the problem is to cut the inside of the clutch cover. Just following the tracks that remained after fitting.

But I decided to do otherwise. I used DRT spacer(1mm) under the clutch cover.

The parts that I used:

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/clutch+ferodo+sport+for+vespa+_93492000

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/pressure+plate+clutch+piaggio+_50051000

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/spring+pressure+plate+clutch+_14458000

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/spacer+clutch+cover+for+vespa+_90898100

I also used a reinforced clutch basket circlip because the one that came with the clutch seemed too flimsy to me.

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/clutch+basket+circlip+sip+_28601200
Hooked
Joined: 29 Feb 2012
Posts: 134
Location: San Francisco
Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:11 pm quote
Re: XL2 in V5B3T
Thanks, this is awesome!
roland87 wrote:
Yesterday I assembled my engine and installed the XL2 clutch with a DRT Cobra basket.

When I just attached a standard clutch cover and rotated the crankshaft - I heard it like a basket or clutch(?) rubbing against the clutch cover.

One of the solutions to the problem is to cut the inside of the clutch cover. Just following the tracks that remained after fitting.

But I decided to do otherwise. I used DRT spacer(1mm) under the clutch cover.

The parts that I used:

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/clutch+ferodo+sport+for+vespa+_93492000

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/pressure+plate+clutch+piaggio+_50051000

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/spring+pressure+plate+clutch+_14458000

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/spacer+clutch+cover+for+vespa+_90898100

I also used a reinforced clutch basket circlip because the one that came with the clutch seemed too flimsy to me.

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/clutch+basket+circlip+sip+_28601200
Member
'81 Special, '78 P150X, '13 LML Star 200
Joined: 30 Nov 2018
Posts: 40
Location: Ukraine
Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:08 am quote
Happy to help. Do it best!
Member
Joined: 01 Dec 2017
Posts: 5

Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:11 am quote
You know that you can covert any normal small frame clutch cover to a geared type like a PK XL2 using the Crimaz conversion kit, available from SIP? Loads cheaper than using a SIP XL2 style cover and all the other bits you have to buy for that.

this is the Crimaz kit

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/push+rod+crimaz+clutch+clutch_87723000
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