Selling privately vs trade-in
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Enthusiast
Vespa GTS Super Sport 125 Yellow
Joined: 25 May 2018
Posts: 56
Location: London, UK
Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:05 am quote
After a year and a bit on my 125 I'm halfway through getting an unrestricted license and can't avoid the temptation to trade up to a 300 which leaves me with the dilemma should I trade in or sell for a better return? I'm a little concerned about how safe selling privately is and I've never sold a vehicle before and it would be a lot more convenient to trade in with the dealer I buy a 300 from in terms of money/insurance. What would you do and any feedback/tips on selling privately?

Also if anyone has any experience of asking lexham insurance to move the coverage over to a new vehicle that would be great to hear about too!
Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Typhoon 125
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 10734
Location: Oregon City, OR
Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:32 am quote
I don't have any experience with used vehicle sales in Britain, of course, but in the US you can get quite a bit more for a used late model Vespa on the private market than you can on a dealer trade in. But there is no doubt that a dealer trade in is more convenient.
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 37232
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:35 am quote
You'll get a bit more in a private sale, but you'll have the hassle of dealing with it. If you get your current bike in tip-top condition (get the toothbrush out!), the dealer will give you more than if it looks a bit tatty, just like a private sale would work. If you do go for a trade-in, don't be miffed when you see your old bike being advertised at £600 more than you were paid for it - that's how they make their money if a buyer doesn't haggle.

Even if you can afford to buy the new bike outright for cash, go for their 0% finance deal if offered, and let your cash work better for you in your savings. The dealer likes this too, as they get a kick-back from the finance deal, and so may give you some discount on extras and maybe a free first service.
Enthusiast
Vespa GTS Super Sport 125 Yellow
Joined: 25 May 2018
Posts: 56
Location: London, UK
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:05 pm quote
Thanks for the advice! I think I will go for the finance since I've just had all the expenditure on the DAS license course. I keep the 125 super clean for the most part, but there are mucky areas like just above the wheels because I don't have an accessible hose… I guess I'll take it to a petrol station and use theirs.

Anyone want to guess what I can get for a just over a year old gts 125 super sport with ~3300 miles on it?

One thing I'm not sure about is there's a small crack in the rear left indicator around the screw which has been there since I bought it new… would replacing that void the warrantee? It's such a cheap part and so easy to replace I feel like it might be worth replacing that before trying to trade in.
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 37232
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:30 pm quote
Don't worry about the indicator lens, unless some plastic is missing.

I've no idea on prices at the moment.
Molto Verboso
Kymco AK550
Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 1083
Location: UK
Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:50 pm quote
I almost always trade in if buying new. For me the dealers earn their profit for this service alone so I don't begrudge it. I have a frank discussion with each dealer I get a quote from, and tend to prefer dealers who respond in an equally frank manner rather than the smooth talkers. This is because I want my new scooter to be properly prepared and backed up by a willingness to help with any warranty concerns. Jim's advice about giving your old machine the best clean and polish that you can is very sound.
Addicted
2016 LXV 150 ie, 1978 Vespa P125, 2019 Piaggio Liberty 150
Joined: 06 Jul 2016
Posts: 505
Location: central Illinois USA
Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:48 am quote
Private selling is good IF you are in an area where what you have for sale has a good market. Being the only person in the entire county running a scooter regularly, no market here which is why I only put the GTS up for sale on the 2 groups I ride with, and planned my next paid weekday off to run to the city and see about a trade in. I went down with title, spare keys and such and knowing I could happily ride home on the same ride I came down on. I came home on a new 2019 Liberty and learned that it could very comfortably sit in traffic which moved slower than I walk leaving the city. But I also learned that I was very comfortable and felt safe and not crowded or run over in that slowly crawling out of the city traffic and that the panhandlers were working the outbound traffic. Not a sight(show) this country bumpkin was expecting to enjoy but hey, it made fun watching.
Hooked
2018 Yamaha XMAX 300
Joined: 25 Sep 2006
Posts: 372
Location: Denver, CO
Thu Jul 04, 2019 4:19 am quote
Try selling on craigslist, people will contact you for all over. Most of the time you get more money by selling it yourself as opposed to trading the bike in.
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 37232
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Thu Jul 04, 2019 5:25 am quote
alloo wrote:
Try selling on craigslist, people will contact you for all over. Most of the time you get more money by selling it yourself as opposed to trading the bike in.
Craigslist isn't much of a 'thing' over here in the UK. Gumtree and Nextdoor are the go-to places for local adverts.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Modded Vespa 2017 GTV 300, BMW 2017 C650GT, Ural 2019 Gear Up
Joined: 21 May 2017
Posts: 5124
Location: Downtown Toronto
Thu Jul 04, 2019 5:59 am quote
It really depends on how important making a few extra dollars is vs the ease of a trade-in. If buying new a trade in is almost always the easiest route. Especially I would think if buying from a dealer that sells the same product. If working with a reputable dealer trading in is usually a fair deal for all involved.
Addicted
2016 LXV 150 ie, 1978 Vespa P125, 2019 Piaggio Liberty 150
Joined: 06 Jul 2016
Posts: 505
Location: central Illinois USA
Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:02 am quote
I bought my first Vespa, the LXV down st MotoEuropa, and they have the Triumph Grill and the Motorcycle Museum so I visit there when I can and it’s where I went to see what the Liberty really looked like, how it fit me when I sat on it and what sort of deal we could work with a trade. The scooter I sat on was not quite ready to roll out the door but that gave me time to enjoy my lunch at the Grill, and see the changes and improvements with the remodeling that was still ongoing.
I debated posting the GTS on Craigslist but decided there were far more downs than ups to the financial difference. If I had just wanted the larger GTS sold and the $ in hand, I would have sold it privately, for me, it was either keep and use the scooter or trade for something lighter weight and easier for me to pick up if laid over, roll back into my bike parking area and such.
I have more than 1 scooter but I admit that my very favorite is that vintage one. And I am very fortunate to be able to own, maintain and support my forms of transportation.
Enthusiast
Vespa GTS Super Sport 125 Yellow
Joined: 25 May 2018
Posts: 56
Location: London, UK
Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:43 am quote
I'm hesitant about the UK equivalent of craigslist – mainly because everyone says motorcycle theft is so bad in London although I've been fine so far, I'd be worried that someone who wants to nick it would get in touch for a viewing! How do you keep it safe selling privately?

I think I'll see what the dealers are willing to offer for trade in after I pass my MOD2 test next Wednesday… hopefully. If it seems reasonable I'll go for it! It'd also be a bit tight keeping two Vespas inside while waiting for one of them to sell
Enthusiast
Vespa GTS Super Sport 125 Yellow
Joined: 25 May 2018
Posts: 56
Location: London, UK
Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:47 am quote
maggiegirl wrote:
…I have more than 1 scooter but I admit that my very favorite is that vintage one. And I am very fortunate to be able to own, maintain and support my forms of transportation.
Even those of us with only one are very fortunate too! On the way home today I spotted an awesome ~60s Vespa in excellent condition at the petrol station and it turns out it lives just around the corner. I can see why they're loved so much! Excellent character to them. But personally I love the new ones
Molto Verboso
2012 BV 350, 2013 BMW C650 GT, 2015 Indian Chieftain
Joined: 20 Feb 2009
Posts: 1873
Location: Brentwood, TN
Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:11 pm quote
I don’t know about the UK, but in many (all?) US states, you’ll pay sales tax on the net purchase price - if you have a trade in, it reduces the net purchase prices and saves you 7-10% on your sales taxes. So a $2000 trade in saves you up to $200 in sales tax. Just another piece of the puzzle.

I tried to sell a car myself and it was a lot of scammers and non-serious callers. I found it a tremendous waste of my time, which I value dearly.

Combine the tax impact and hassle impact, I’d mostly rather trade in than sell direct.
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 37232
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:18 pm quote
I'm pretty sure in the UK they are two separate transactions. No tax involved in second-hand goods. VAT ('sales tax') is payable on goods sold by a retailer to an EU citizen. No leeway.

The only benefit of trading in is to minimise hassle. However, the hassle can be considerable with a private sale, so the downside of losing out on a few hundred pounds or dollars is largely mitigated. The equation is of course dependent on individual financial or logistic circumstances.
Ossessionato
GT200 & GTS250 & NC750X & Royal Enfield Pegasus
Joined: 23 Aug 2013
Posts: 2056
Location: London
Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:25 pm quote
Personally, I would first of all check the price of insurance for the new scooter and that you're comfortable with the new premium. Then I'd look into what is a realistic price for your scooter if sold privately so you know how good or bad a deal you're getting. Then I'd just trade it in via part exchange. You will take a hit but it's a simpler process with no risk. This advice really only stands for London. I should say the risk is less with a 125cc GTS than a 300 etc.
Addicted
Vespa PX 125 Settantesimo
Joined: 01 Feb 2017
Posts: 564
Location: Norf Wheezy
Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:35 pm quote
If you are getting something else I would just do a trade in. Yes, you won't get the same money but you will get it sorted quickly without any stress. That's what I have done in the past anyway. They will give you a value based on what you describe then check the bike when you bring it in.
Enthusiast
Piaggio Medley 150 iGet and Drive Easy Rider Scooter
Joined: 04 Dec 2018
Posts: 88
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:46 pm quote
I find that selling privately through the usual 'lists' or preferably, through a dedicated web site specialising in motorcycles is usually fraught with hassles, time wasters, tyre kickers, scammers and thieves.
In addition the seller has to provide a costly 'Safety Certificate', (also called a 'Roadworthy Certificate' ) that expires in 30 days and has to be renewed if no sale eventuates in that time.
And most painful, speaking from embarrassing and costly personal experience, are the "One Way Test Rides".
Know the drill: "Can I just take it for a spin around the block to see how it drives?" Never to be seen again. Ouch!
Sometimes they even bring a friend or leave their (fake) driver's licence as collateral, all meaningless once they disappear over the horizon with your vehicle.
So, most assuredly, trading the vehicle in is by far the safer and easier option. Provided of course that you are buying another vehicle with your trade.
Addicted
2016 LXV 150 ie, 1978 Vespa P125, 2019 Piaggio Liberty 150
Joined: 06 Jul 2016
Posts: 505
Location: central Illinois USA
Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:53 pm quote
Here in the USA I have never heard of any private seller being required to have any safety certificate for a used anything. We do have restrictions on what can be sold used. You can sell the bed frame but not the mattress, but you can give it away and I think there are restrictions on baby and child items like cribs, car safety seats, and such.
Here it is the seller who has the responsibility of knowing what they are buying and with private sales, there is no warranty.
Enthusiast
None
Joined: 13 Feb 2017
Posts: 52
Location: Warrington Cheshire UK.
Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:22 am quote
Re: Selling privately vs trade-in
angrywasptamer wrote:
After a year and a bit on my 125 I'm halfway through getting an unrestricted license and can't avoid the temptation to trade up to a 300 which leaves me with the dilemma should I trade in or sell for a better return? I'm a little concerned about how safe selling privately is and I've never sold a vehicle before and it would be a lot more convenient to trade in with the dealer I buy a 300 from in terms of money/insurance. What would you do and any feedback/tips on selling privately?

Also if anyone has any experience of asking lexham insurance to move the coverage over to a new vehicle that would be great to hear about too!
I don't know the differences in a GTS125 & GTS300(apart from the cc),but I do see quite a few GTS125 Vespas for sale(in the UK) advertised as GTS300 but still registered as a 125,is there some sort of Cylinder conversion available that you could fit to your bike ?,might be worth looking into
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 37232
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:25 am quote
Re: Selling privately vs trade-in
Old Rocker wrote:
angrywasptamer wrote:
After a year and a bit on my 125 I'm halfway through getting an unrestricted license and can't avoid the temptation to trade up to a 300 which leaves me with the dilemma should I trade in or sell for a better return? I'm a little concerned about how safe selling privately is and I've never sold a vehicle before and it would be a lot more convenient to trade in with the dealer I buy a 300 from in terms of money/insurance. What would you do and any feedback/tips on selling privately?

Also if anyone has any experience of asking lexham insurance to move the coverage over to a new vehicle that would be great to hear about too!
I don't know the differences in a GTS125 & GTS300(apart from the cc),but I do see quite a few GTS125 Vespas for sale(in the UK) advertised as GTS300 but still registered as a 125,is there some sort of Cylinder conversion available that you could fit to your bike ?,might be worth looking into
Those are made of at least one if not two stolen bikes. AVOID! You can only make a 300 out of a 125 by changing the whole engine and transmission (plus some other stuff).
Enthusiast
None
Joined: 13 Feb 2017
Posts: 52
Location: Warrington Cheshire UK.
Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:30 am quote
Re: Selling privately vs trade-in
I don't know the differences in a GTS125 & GTS300(apart from the cc),but I do see quite a few GTS125 Vespas for sale(in the UK) advertised as GTS300 but still registered as a 125,is there some sort of Cylinder conversion available that you could fit to your bike ?,might be worth looking into[/quote]

Those are made of at least one if not two stolen bikes. AVOID! You can only make a 300 out of a 125 by changing the whole engine and transmission (plus some other stuff).[/quote]


If this is the case,it's a bit surprising that there are as many as there are openly advertised on Ebay etc,i'm not arguing or doubting what you're saying,just surprised.
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Granturismo 218
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Posts: 5209
Location: South Carolina
Sat Jul 06, 2019 6:57 am quote
Facebook Marketplace has become a very popular place to sell used vehicles. One of the reasons is that it's harder to do the scams on Facebook that you see all the time on Craigslist and other free listing sites. You see who's inquiring, they see who's selling. You are less likely to get inquiries from halfway around the globe that want to send a cashier's check for more than the amount of purchase.
It's not perfect, but it's better than Craigslist.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2010 Can Am Spyder RT-S, 2012 Honda NC700 DCT
Joined: 02 Mar 2013
Posts: 5212
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:08 am quote
Motovista wrote:
Facebook Marketplace has become a very popular place to sell used vehicles. One of the reasons is that it's harder to do the scams on Facebook that you see all the time on Craigslist and other free listing sites. You see who's inquiring, they see who's selling. You are less likely to get inquiries from halfway around the globe that want to send a cashier's check for more than the amount of purchase.
It's not perfect, but it's better than Craigslist.
I just sold my Can Am Spyder, listing it on Craigslist, Facebook Marketplace, CycleTrader, and SpyderLovers. The buyer initially contacted me through Craigslist, then we interacted over Facebook through Messenger. As you suggested, using Facebook can help avoid scams, but in addition to this if you use the other platforms then (if you have to) direct things to Facebook for the more personal touch, you get a wider audience.

I have never traded in a vehicle, as I have found it worth my bother to get what I consider significantly more for my old one than I would get on trade. It can be a hassle, certainly.

I must be getting old (OK, that's a given), but I find it surprising what things cost. Probably why I do all my own maintenance work, and tend to buy and sell through private transactions. I'm fine with paying taxes on whatever deal happens, but a $200 documentation fee? Nope.
Rocket Man
GTS 300 ABS ‘Drake', GTS 250 (sold), LX 150 and Delta IV rocket. ( Retired. Not my problem anymore)
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
Posts: 1873
Location: Space Coast Florida
Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:46 am quote
I recently sold a 2015 GTS. Listed in all the usual avenues, including MV. Asking price was $4,500. Dealer offered $2,200 trade.

After 3 weeks of separating scammers, lookers with no money and legit inquiries, sold it for asking price. Buyer was through CL, but talked via FaceTime showing scoot. Buyer drove up from Miami with required cash in hand. Oh yeah, have that money counterfeit pen handy.

Bob
Ossessionato
2006 Vespa GT (Rocket): 2005 Vespa GT (Razzo): 2007 Vespa GT (Vanessa): 2009 Yamaha Zuma 125 (Zoom): 2018 Yamaha Xmax (Max),
Joined: 26 Sep 2006
Posts: 4095
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Sun Jul 07, 2019 2:15 am quote
I have sold three scooters over the years, all three to friends.

So no hassle with craigslist and their tire kickers and scammers.

The most recent was the 53 year old Lambretta Li125.

I could not keep it on the road, not being a much of a mechanic and struggling to find anyone I could pay to keep it running.

So a vintage scooterists was in town in March for our Bridges Ride.

I mentioned the scooter to him. He said that he would like to buy it, we agreed on a price and the deal was done.

He picked it up a couple of weeks ago.

I bought both my Miata and Tacoma off of Craigslist, the truck a year ago.

The seller was a very nice, cautious woman.

We met at a public parking lot for a test drive.

I think that she was pleasantly surprised by the ease of the sale.

Bill
Molto Verboso
Vespa Super 300
Joined: 24 Mar 2013
Posts: 1215
Location: IL
Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:03 am quote
I have no experience selling a scooter but I did sell a car privately once. I did not have the option of a trade in as I was not replacing it. It was a miserable experience. I had it on several internet sales lists, and I got more scam calls than you can imagine. everyday several people called clearly trying to rip me off. It was an experience I will try to never repeat. In my area I had a friend who sold his Harley and found a company that buys up and sell PTW's and he found them to be very professional and he got a descent price and thy had his bike resold very quickly. Best of luck
Molto Verboso
2009 GTS 250, 2013 Buddy 125, 2014 Triumph Bonneville
Joined: 23 Apr 2016
Posts: 1688
Location: North Jersey
Sun Jul 07, 2019 10:31 am quote
angrywasptamer wrote:
I'm hesitant about the UK equivalent of craigslist – mainly because everyone says motorcycle theft is so bad in London although I've been fine so far, I'd be worried that someone who wants to nick it would get in touch for a viewing! How do you keep it safe selling privately?

I think I'll see what the dealers are willing to offer for trade in after I pass my MOD2 test next Wednesday… hopefully. If it seems reasonable I'll go for it! It'd also be a bit tight keeping two Vespas inside while waiting for one of them to sell
Even though you get less for it on a trade in, here in U.S. states, there's also the savings in sales tax (subtract the value of the trade from the price of the new scooter, and only pay tax on the remaining difference) when you trade it in to a dealer. Many states the sales tax is around 7%, sometimes 10%. And yes, the state gets it's cut of the sale every time the vehicle is sold to a new owner.

Also, when you sell it privately, the buyer now knows your home address (it's on the front of the title that you both sign and he takes with him to DMV) So, if something goes wrong with the scooter, and he's a wacko, he can come by and complain and harass you for selling him a lemon.

To avoid having potential buyers, and possibly thieves, come to your home where the scooter is kept, agree to meet them in a diner or mall parking lot to show it to them.
Enthusiast
Vespa GTS Super Sport 125 Yellow
Joined: 25 May 2018
Posts: 56
Location: London, UK
Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:19 am quote
Just passed my MOD2 today and got the L plates off

I got a sight unseen valuation of £2400 trade in from one place, will check with another who have a slightly lower price on the GTS 300 and see whether I can get a top box thrown in… they're going for £3700-3800 new as last year's model so I figure they'll probably sell lightly used for ~£3000. Hopefully I can get a deal!

Thanks for the advice everyone… seems like there's a bit of a consensus for trading in if you get a reasonable offer.
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 37232
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:31 am quote
angrywasptamer wrote:
Just passed my MOD2 today and got the L plates off

I got a sight unseen valuation of £2400 trade in from one place, will check with another who have a slightly lower price on the GTS 300 and see whether I can get a top box thrown in… they're going for £3700-3800 new as last year's model so I figure they'll probably sell lightly used for ~£3000. Hopefully I can get a deal!

Thanks for the advice everyone… seems like there's a bit of a consensus for trading in if you get a reasonable offer.
Congratulations. Fingers crossed you get a good deal.
Addicted
Vespa PX 125 Settantesimo
Joined: 01 Feb 2017
Posts: 564
Location: Norf Wheezy
Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:37 am quote
angrywasptamer wrote:
Just passed my MOD2 today and got the L plates off

I got a sight unseen valuation of £2400 trade in from one place, will check with another who have a slightly lower price on the GTS 300 and see whether I can get a top box thrown in… they're going for £3700-3800 new as last year's model so I figure they'll probably sell lightly used for ~£3000. Hopefully I can get a deal!

Thanks for the advice everyone… seems like there's a bit of a consensus for trading in if you get a reasonable offer.
Well done! It’s a nice feeling removing those plates.
Ossessionato
1979 P200e
Joined: 18 Mar 2013
Posts: 2392
Location: West of Boston
Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:45 am quote
TN_Sooner wrote:
I don’t know about the UK, but in many (all?) US states, you’ll pay sales tax on the net purchase price - if you have a trade in, it reduces the net purchase prices and saves you 7-10% on your sales taxes. So a $2000 trade in saves you up to $200 in sales tax. Just another piece of the puzzle.

I tried to sell a car myself and it was a lot of scammers and non-serious callers. I found it a tremendous waste of my time, which I value dearly.

Combine the tax impact and hassle impact, I’d mostly rather trade in than sell direct.
I was going to mention the sales tax implications. Ran into this when selling a used car. Two offers, one from carmax, the other from the dealer. Dealer offered $9000, Carmax offered $9500, but I'd have to pay sales tax on the full purchase amount, as opposed to no sales tax on the $9000 in trade, and at 6.25% tax, I came out slightly ahead taking the dealers lower offer.
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