BV350 Transmission Issue - What's My Problem
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Hooked
2016 BV350 White
Joined: 01 May 2010
Posts: 320
Location: East LA County, CA, USA
Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:04 pm quote
While out riding I got a strong rear wheel wobble then lost power. Then I lost all power. The motor was running but the accelerator did nothing except make the transmission make a squealing noise.

I thought that I broke my drive belt, so I replaced the belt, rollers, and slides, but I still have the same issue. I have 11,100 on my scooter and it was almost time for a belt and roller change anyway. OMG, the clutch is a bear to pry open with your hands to get the belt seated in it correctly. There should be a tool to make that easier.

Since this is my daily commuter, I'm taking it to a shop to get it worked on this Monday. I need my scooter back so that I have transportation while my other car will be in the shop for body work from my daughter's rear end accident.

I have a feeling that the clutch is locking up, but I am not sure. What do you think is happening with my scooter?
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Granturismo 218
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Posts: 5538
Location: South Carolina
Sun Jul 07, 2019 11:36 pm quote
If you had to force the belt down into the clutch, it's probably not the clutch. If the variator is working and the clutch is squeezing the belt, the bike should move under it's own power.
The rear wheel wobble makes it sound like either the final drive shaft bearing failed or the rear tire got loose, especially if you opened the CVT up and everything was there and appeared to be working. Drain the final drive oil and see if there's metal in it. run a magnet through the oil first after you drain it, then strain some through a coffee filter. If there's a lot of aluminum, which is why you do the magnet first, that's off the engine case or the tfinal drive cover.

On the center stand, can you move the tire from side to side? Take the right shock off the swingarm if you have to and try it.
Ossessionato
2014 Commuter BV350(41,000)/2015 Scoot Life BV350(9,000)/2010 El Diablito SH150i(28,000)
Joined: 27 Dec 2013
Posts: 2242
Location: Orange Park Florida
Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:30 pm quote
The belt is nowhere near the clutch. The clutch is on the other side of the clutch cover behind the driven pulleys. What's making it hard to squeeze the belt into the driven pulleys is the contra spring.
Early clutch failure is not common but not unheard of. You can buy a fully assembled clutch from ScooterWest for less than $300 and have a mechanic install it or save some money with DIY. You are learning a lot about DIY lately, so why stop now.
Step one; remove rear wheel. 2; drain gear oil. 3; remove driven pulley. 4; remove final drive cover. 5; remove clutch cover. 6; remove clutch retaining nut(special tool needed). Replace in reverse order. The service manual has good info on this procedure.
I replaced my clutch at 32,000 miles but I didn't buy the fully assembled clutch. I bought the parts from Scooterparts co. and rebuilt it.
If it's not the clutch, you'll find the problem when you disassemble it.
Ossessionato
2014 Commuter BV350(41,000)/2015 Scoot Life BV350(9,000)/2010 El Diablito SH150i(28,000)
Joined: 27 Dec 2013
Posts: 2242
Location: Orange Park Florida
Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:36 pm quote
Before you do this, remove the transmission cover and check to see if the drive pulleys aren't slipping on the crankshaft.
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Granturismo 218
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Posts: 5538
Location: South Carolina
Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:58 pm quote
Whoops... I forgot it's one of those.
Hooked
2016 BV350 White
Joined: 01 May 2010
Posts: 320
Location: East LA County, CA, USA
Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:13 pm quote
My scooter went to the mechanic tonight since I don't have the time to work on it with my other car going into the auto body shop.

How would I check to see if the driver pulleys are slipping on the crankshaft? That sounds like an easy fix. ... and what would cause that?

I told the mechanic I thought it was possibly a clutch issue so I'm am sure he will be looking at the clutch and hub oil.

I had the transmission cover off when I switched the belt and rollers and didn't notice anything unusual except that the clutch didn't seem to move as freely as I thought that it should.
Enthusiast
Sportcity 350ie
Joined: 08 Nov 2016
Posts: 88
Location: Zagreb/Croatia/EU
Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:10 am quote
Since Bev 350ie have lamel clutch in oil bath (like "real motors" have) maybe is there your problem. Based on info what I get from two independent Piaggio SVC engineers (both are my friends) I don't use recommended gear oil anymore. I put in gear the same oil recommended for it's engine- Eni i-Ride Scooter 15W50.
Reason: OEM recommended gear oil is OK for transmission but it's to dense for multi-plate lamell clutch system and cause his unwanted sliding.
I made this in October 2016 and still all OK. Scooter run smoothly and clutch/gear work perfect. I couldn't offer you nothing to ensure you to make like I did, but this is my warm recommendation for you- especially if your repair engineer confirm "burned" clutch plates in such small mileage like yours.
Hooked
2016 BV350 White
Joined: 01 May 2010
Posts: 320
Location: East LA County, CA, USA
Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:28 pm quote
Yeah, I read on this site a while back that it was okay to just use motor oil instead of hub/gear oil. I'm interested in the explanation for why it would be better though. I haven't read about many others that have had issues with the clutch on their BV350 though. (I'm not sure yet that, that is my problem.) I ride my BV350 just about daily and I weigh about 245 pounds so that maybe my issue. It seems to me that most clutch issues I know of are from excessive engine breaking, i.e. San Francisco type streets.
Enthusiast
Sportcity 350ie
Joined: 08 Nov 2016
Posts: 88
Location: Zagreb/Croatia/EU
Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:47 am quote
For example Eni i-Ride Scooter 15W50 and Motul 15W50 5100 Technosynthese Ester have all needed specifications for this engine, gear and multi lamel clutch. "Normal motorcycles" with much more horse powers have all this in same space and sharing the same oil bath with such specifications (JASO MA, JASO MA2, ACEA A3, API SJ). For me enough;-)
Ossessionato
2014 Commuter BV350(41,000)/2015 Scoot Life BV350(9,000)/2010 El Diablito SH150i(28,000)
Joined: 27 Dec 2013
Posts: 2242
Location: Orange Park Florida
Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:46 am quote
bean counter wrote:
Yeah, I read on this site a while back that it was okay to just use motor oil instead of hub/gear oil. I'm interested in the explanation for why it would be better though. I haven't read about many others that have had issues with the clutch on their BV350 though. (I'm not sure yet that, that is my problem.) I ride my BV350 just about daily and I weigh about 245 pounds so that maybe my issue. It seems to me that most clutch issues I know of are from excessive engine breaking, i.e. San Francisco type streets.
The BV clutch is an exact copy of the Tmax clutch. There have been early clutch failures with them also. I didn't rebuild my clutch because it failed. I wanted to see what 30,000 miles of hard riding did to it. Two of the plates had all the friction material worn off.
When I bought the Malossi clutch, I was amazed at how little friction material was on the plates compared to a motorcycle clutch. I DIY every vehicle I have ever owned.
I disagree with any theory that using the factory recommended gear oil can cause premature failure. If you don't DIY, talk is cheep. Get in there and see what's really going on.
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 37563
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:51 am quote
breaknwind wrote:
bean counter wrote:
Yeah, I read on this site a while back that it was okay to just use motor oil instead of hub/gear oil. I'm interested in the explanation for why it would be better though. I haven't read about many others that have had issues with the clutch on their BV350 though. (I'm not sure yet that, that is my problem.) I ride my BV350 just about daily and I weigh about 245 pounds so that maybe my issue. It seems to me that most clutch issues I know of are from excessive engine breaking, i.e. San Francisco type streets.
The BV clutch is an exact copy of the Tmax clutch. There have been early clutch failures with them also. I didn't rebuild my clutch because it failed. I wanted to see what 30,000 miles of hard riding did to it. Two of the plates had all the friction material worn off.
When I bought the Malossi clutch, I was amazed at how little friction material was on the plates compared to a motorcycle clutch. I DIY every vehicle I have ever owned.
I disagree with any theory that using the factory recommended gear oil can cause premature failure. If you don't DIY, talk is cheep. Get in there and see what's really going on.
Who has suggested this? The factory recommended hub oil for the BV350 is 15W50, as stated above.
Ossessionato
2014 Commuter BV350(41,000)/2015 Scoot Life BV350(9,000)/2010 El Diablito SH150i(28,000)
Joined: 27 Dec 2013
Posts: 2242
Location: Orange Park Florida
Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:55 am quote
balki wrote:
Since Bev 350ie have lamel clutch in oil bath (like "real motors" have) maybe is there your problem. Based on info what I get from two independent Piaggio SVC engineers (both are my friends) I don't use recommended gear oil anymore. I put in gear the same oil recommended for it's engine- Eni i-Ride Scooter 15W50.
Reason: OEM recommended gear oil is OK for transmission but it's to dense for multi-plate lamell clutch system and cause his unwanted sliding.
I made this in October 2016 and still all OK. Scooter run smoothly and clutch/gear work perfect. I couldn't offer you nothing to ensure you to make like I did, but this is my warm recommendation for you- especially if your repair engineer confirm "burned" clutch plates in such small mileage like yours.
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 37563
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:37 am quote
breaknwind wrote:
balki wrote:
Since Bev 350ie have lamel clutch in oil bath (like "real motors" have) maybe is there your problem. Based on info what I get from two independent Piaggio SVC engineers (both are my friends) I don't use recommended gear oil anymore. I put in gear the same oil recommended for it's engine- Eni i-Ride Scooter 15W50.
Reason: OEM recommended gear oil is OK for transmission but it's to dense for multi-plate lamell clutch system and cause his unwanted sliding.
I made this in October 2016 and still all OK. Scooter run smoothly and clutch/gear work perfect. I couldn't offer you nothing to ensure you to make like I did, but this is my warm recommendation for you- especially if your repair engineer confirm "burned" clutch plates in such small mileage like yours.
All he stated was that he doesn't use the gear oil that is used in non-wet clutch scooters (and why would anyone?), but the recommended 15W50 as per the 350 user manual...
Ossessionato
2014 Commuter BV350(41,000)/2015 Scoot Life BV350(9,000)/2010 El Diablito SH150i(28,000)
Joined: 27 Dec 2013
Posts: 2242
Location: Orange Park Florida
Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:18 am quote
Products
RECOMMENDED PRODUCTS TABLE
Product Description Specifications
AGIP GEAR SAE 80W-90 Lubricant for gearboxes and transmissions.
API GL-4

AGIP FILTER OIL Special product for the treatment of foam
filters.
-
AGIP GP 330 Water repellent stringy calcium spray
grease.
R.I.D./A.D.R. 2 10b) 2 R.I.Na. 2.42 -
I.A.T.A. 2 - I.M.D.G. class 2 UN 1950 Pag.
9022 EM 25-89
eni i-Ride scooter 15W-50 Synthetic-based lubricant for four stroke
engines.

JASO MA, MA2 - API SJ - ACEA A3
AGIP BRAKE 4 Brake fluid. Synthetic fluid SAE J 1703 -FMVSS 116
- DOT 3/4 - ISO 4925 - CUNA NC 956
DOT 4
AGIP PERMANENT SPECIAL Ethylene glycol-based antifreeze fluid
with organic inhibition additives. Red,
ready to use.
ASTM D 3306 - ASTM D 4656 - ASTM D
4985 - CUNA NC 956-16


This is from the Wiki service manual. The clutch shares the oil with the gear box. Stick me with a fork because I'm done with this thread
Enthusiast
Sportcity 350ie
Joined: 08 Nov 2016
Posts: 88
Location: Zagreb/Croatia/EU
Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:19 am quote
I just shared my experience and explained why I did and how. Don't like to argue and hope this could help to someone...
(and yes- I do DIY all my vehicles- good example is that I'm only one in the world who swap Aprilia Sportcity 250ie to 350ie engine;-))
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 7402
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:57 am quote
bean counter wrote:
My scooter went to the mechanic tonight since I don't have the time to work on it with my other car going into the auto body shop.

How would I check to see if the driver pulleys are slipping on the crankshaft? That sounds like an easy fix. ... and what would cause that?

I told the mechanic I thought it was possibly a clutch issue so I'm am sure he will be looking at the clutch and hub oil.

I had the transmission cover off when I switched the belt and rollers and didn't notice anything unusual except that the clutch didn't seem to move as freely as I thought that it should.
FYI:
Do not suggest what YOU think an issue my be, just tell them what the problem is and any symptoms you are having. Telling them what you think is wrong could cost you more money, it can get them looking in the wrong direction and their time is your money.
Hooked
2016 BV350 White
Joined: 01 May 2010
Posts: 320
Location: East LA County, CA, USA
Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:02 pm quote
In case anyone was wondering, if you have this issue: see if your rear tire is loose (see if it moves from side to side) and or remove your rear tire and look at what you have. The problem will present itself.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Typhoon 125
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 10848
Location: Oregon City, OR
Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:12 pm quote
bean counter wrote:
In case anyone was wondering, if you have this issue: see if your rear tire is loose (see if it moves from side to side) and or remove your rear tire and look at what you have. The problem will present itself.
Motovista wrote:
On the center stand, can you move the tire from side to side? Take the right shock off the swingarm if you have to and try it.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 7402
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:48 am quote
bean counter wrote:
In case anyone was wondering, if you have this issue: see if your rear tire is loose (see if it moves from side to side) and or remove your rear tire and look at what you have. The problem will present itself.
I had this happen twice on my Bv350. Still can't figure out what happened, the the axle nut on the swing arm wasn't tight in my case. I now snug all the bolts down, then tighten the axle nut before tightening the front swing arm mounting bolts / nuts.
Member
Bv350
Joined: 08 Feb 2017
Posts: 28
Location: California - SF Bay Area
Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:20 pm quote
Hey Bean Counter. Just curious. What did the mechanic find?
Hooked
2016 BV350 White
Joined: 01 May 2010
Posts: 320
Location: East LA County, CA, USA
Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:59 am quote
The rear end on the tire side came loose. I'm having the rear rim replaced since it got buggered up. ... the splines at the center of the rim. This is avoided by tightening to spec.
Member
Bv350
Joined: 08 Feb 2017
Posts: 28
Location: California - SF Bay Area
Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:44 pm quote
Interesting. I would of thought the nut cap and cotter pin would of prevented that. Im coming up on my 24k mi maintenance. Will definitely check it then. Normally only check it when Im replacing the tire. Thanks.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 7402
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:31 am quote
bean counter wrote:
The rear end on the tire side came loose. I'm having the rear rim replaced since it got buggered up. ... the splines at the center of the rim. This is avoided by tightening to spec.
Not necessarily
Had this happen twice on my BV350 and know it was tight when I put it back together.
Only thing I can think of is I tighten the swing arm mounting bolts before the axle nut and it went on crooked. Now I always tighten the axle nut then the swing arm fasteners.
Hooked
2016 BV350 White
Joined: 01 May 2010
Posts: 320
Location: East LA County, CA, USA
Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:11 pm quote
I could swear that I had all of the bolts fastened super tight the last time I put my rear tire back on. ... so I don't really know how this happened. If anyone has more information on this please share. At least I'm not the only one.

If you do notice a rear wheel wobble, immediately stop and get a tow, you be able to prevent expensive damage!

I've been 4 weeks without my scooter now. ... waiting on the independent shop I picked to fix it. I don't plan to go back to this independent guy ever again since he just takes way too long. 4 to 7 days turned in to 4 to 7 business days, which turned into 7 to 10 business days, which turned into I'm working my jobs first in, first out. It was 3 weeks before he even took the wheel off to figure out what needed to be fixed. Then, its another week for special order parts to come in from the factory. This guy has a reputation for doing good work so I still feel confident that it will be fixed right. This isn't normal for independent shops to take so long is it?
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Granturismo 218
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Posts: 5538
Location: South Carolina
Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:06 pm quote
If you need an oil change or belt service, no. If you need a part and nobody has it, yes. If the part you need is not physically in the Piaggio USA system and it's August, yes. Or getting close to August, or just after August.
One of the problems with getting parts for the BV350 is that it's not a Vespa and the biggest European Vespa parts dealers aren't Piaggio dealers. They stock common replacement parts for a lot of different bikes, and many parts for the BV 350. But it's not an engine used in any of the Vespa lineup, so if the Piaggio parts distributor they deal with doesn't have this part, and it's August, etc, anything they special order is not getting shipped until September. Usually it takes Piaggio a week or longer to start shipping parts after they come back. They seem to plan changes or upgrades to their systems for right after they get back, so they can take even longer to start shipping again when the demand for parts is highest.
With a couple or three weeks lead time, we can get any part for a BV 350, as long as it's not right now or around Christmas. And there are a lot of other companies in the same boat. That's just how the system works.
Another issue you can run into with independent shops that don't do a lot of Vespa/Piaggio work is that they will usually have one "go to" source they deal with for Piaggio parts, and don't have the time to run every single part to the ground.
If you can get a list of all the parts you need, in case it's more than just the rim, and try to run them down yourself, you might get your bike back faster. There's probably a Piaggio dealer that has what you need in inventory. If it was a Japanese bike, any dealer with Lightspeed could find out what other dealer has a part in inventory, and it may be that Piaggio dealers with Lightspeed now have that capacity too. I'm not sure. I know Piaggio didn't participate when this feature was first introduced by Lightspeed, but the times, they may be a'changing. If you don't find what you need here in the US, I would suggest the UK dealers who sell online. This time of year, they seem to have a better inventory of Piaggio, as opposed to Vespa, parts than their Northern European counterparts.
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