New Vespa GTS Super Sport 300 HPE hesitant to get going
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Member
Vespa GTS Super Sport 300 HPE
Joined: 05 Aug 2019
Posts: 5
Location: California, U.S.A.
Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:56 am quote
Hi!

I just bought a new Vespa GTS Super Sport 300 HPE and it has only 20 miles on it. I noticed when going to work today, that when you get going after a red light or stop sign, it is kind of hesitant. First it accelerates a little, then it kind of stutters and hesitates randomly, gets going again and does so maybe one or two times before speeding up.

I'm not new to modern Piaggio engines, I've had an older vespa LX150 and a 2018 Liberty 150, none of them ever had this behavior. It's kind of uncanny as you don't get a smooth acceleration and you're afraid it will stall completely (although that hasn't happened yet).

Is this how the HPE engines behave? Or is there something amiss with mine? Anyone has any idea of why this is happening and what to do about it (or ask the dealership to do about it, as it's brand new).

I'm new here, so sorry if this is a common break in problem or something otherwise obvious - i used the search but did not find anything that applies perfectly to a brand new one.
Molto Verboso
2018 GTS300 Super Sport - Donatello Vespace
Joined: 22 Dec 2012
Posts: 1173
Location: Toronto, Ontario Canada
Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:04 pm quote
Have you put in some fresh new high octane petrol? It only takes high octane.
Member
Vespa GTS Super Sport 300 HPE
Joined: 05 Aug 2019
Posts: 5
Location: California, U.S.A.
Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:16 pm quote
It had a full tank of gas when I bought it, so I haven't filled it up yet. After driving some more, it seems to me like it kind of chokes when I roll the throttle too much when going after a stop. If I'm easy on the throttle, it behaves fine, but it seems like a weird behavior for a fuel injected four stroke. Also I did not experience it during test drive etc, so it seems like something started acting up after I drove it some more. I did inspect spark plug and cap, as I found some references to that being the reasons for problems like this, but it all looked fine (as far as I could see). Maybe it will be better with some new gas, but it seems strange that they would have filled it up with something bad at the dealership. But you never know!
Molto Verboso
2018 GTS300 Super Sport - Donatello Vespace
Joined: 22 Dec 2012
Posts: 1173
Location: Toronto, Ontario Canada
Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:31 pm quote
bufflig wrote:
It had a full tank of gas when I bought it, so I haven't filled it up yet. After driving some more, it seems to me like it kind of chokes when I roll the throttle too much when going after a stop. If I'm easy on the throttle, it behaves fine, but it seems like a weird behavior for a fuel injected four stroke. Also I did not experience it during test drive etc, so it seems like something started acting up after I drove it some more. I did inspect spark plug and cap, as I found some references to that being the reasons for problems like this, but it all looked fine (as far as I could see). Maybe it will be better with some new gas, but it seems strange that they would have filled it up with something bad at the dealership. But you never know!
I would take it back to the dealer for diagnosing. Could be a number of things including ECU.
Member
2019 Kymco Like 150, 2020 GTS 300 HPE
Joined: 08 May 2019
Posts: 43
Location: Nashville
Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:50 pm quote
Sounds like the traction control is reducing power. Try turning it off and see if the problem goes away. ASR will engage on gravel, grass or even wet pavement.
Hooked
Joined: 24 Mar 2011
Posts: 468
Location: FI PKS
Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:54 pm quote
Definitely ASR.

It's more aggressive on HPE than it was on earlier models.

I made ASR calibration with wrong tire pressures and now it's much better. I had 2.2bar at front and 1.5bar at rear. After calibration I reset pressures back to normal 1.8 front and 2.2 rear. No more aggressive ASR. It's still there and working when needed.
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 16572
Location: South East Great England of Britishland
Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:32 am quote
Project
Are you gunning it off the lights or riding like you would on the way to work ?

If you're launching it, it could be the traction control if your'e taking it easy I'd suggest there's a problem.

Bill x
Addicted
Yamaha Tricity 155 my 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 994
Location: Latina (Italy)
Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:25 am quote
Consideration

... the problem is in today's machines (all) where there is too much electronics, necessary but also invasive.

Attila y
Member
2019 Kymco Like 150, 2020 GTS 300 HPE
Joined: 08 May 2019
Posts: 43
Location: Nashville
Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:17 am quote
Wolfeboats wrote:
Sounds like the traction control is reducing power. Try turning it off and see if the problem goes away. ASR will engage on gravel, grass or even wet pavement.
Partanen's comment reminded me there is an ASR calibration procedure described in your owners manual. Your new bike should have come already calibrated but who knows? Be worth a shot, is simple to do.
Hooked
Joined: 24 Mar 2011
Posts: 468
Location: FI PKS
Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:52 am quote
And if you do it like I did your ASR is less sensitive.
Hooked
2015 Vespa GTS300 Super
Joined: 26 Sep 2017
Posts: 213
Location: Connecticut
Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:57 am quote
If it is still acting up (and if your dealer is close by), I would bring it back to the dealer. This is a brand new scooter! While the posts are helpful and will likely solve your problem, this scooter should be working well enough to allow you a trouble-free break in period. You really shouldnít have to adjust the ASR or troubleshoot issues with a brand new scooter; thatís the dealerís job.
Hooked
Joined: 24 Mar 2011
Posts: 468
Location: FI PKS
Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:49 am quote
Dealer can tell you to turn off ASR. Nothing more.
Member
Vespa GTS Super Sport 300 HPE
Joined: 05 Aug 2019
Posts: 5
Location: California, U.S.A.
Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:50 pm quote
Thanks guys! It was totally the ASR. Not only was it far too aggressive, the indicator on the display also does not change - it's solid showing ASR is disabled even when it's not, it does not blink or anything to indicate when it's on or off or give any indication for calibration. I can turn ASR off by holding the ASR button for a second, but it does not change anything on the display (although, ASR engaged or not is easily detected with the scooter on the center stand while rolling the throttle).

I took it back to the dealer and they tried to diagnose it, but failed and are contacting Piaggio to figure out what's wrong.

Meanwhile, I press the ASR button for a second after starting it, and now it runs like a charm. When they can fix the display or cable or whatever is wrong, I will attempt to calibrate it with low tire pressure, but as the ASR indicator never worked, I'm pretty sure it has not been calibrated ever - it's really hard to follow the calibration procedure without any indication

I'll post back when they actually can figure out what's wrong, but until them, I can enjoy my Vespa without traction control thanks to the great advice I got from you!
Hooked
Joined: 24 Mar 2011
Posts: 468
Location: FI PKS
Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:39 pm quote
My indicator was constantly on when I got my HPE. Dealer should have done the calibration but Piaggio newer told to do so. I did it myself by the owner's manual instructions. Doesn't matter if indicator is on at the beginning. Procedure still works.

First I did it with correct pressures. Just a couple days ago with wrong pressures.
Molto Verboso
2016 Vespa GTS300ie abs/asr/ess Settantesimo '70'
Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 1954
Location: Not really sure but I think somewhere down South, in the engineering dept at Starfleet's UK HQ
Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:31 pm quote
Not on the HPE...
The HPE requires the tyre pressures to be set absolutely correctly in order to recalibrate the ASR system. The software in the ECU controlling the ASR is different to earlier models. On the HPE the ASR system is much less aggressive than on earlier euro3/4 bikes. If the OPs system was too aggressive, it's because it hasn't been setup right or there's a fault.

To the OP. After you get your bike back from the dealer when he has fixed your issue, don't recalibrate the system. You won't need to as the dealer will have already carried it out.. I recently rode the HPE bike (brilliant by the way) and tested the ASR system on a gravel road.. It was absolutely fine, more refined than my ASR on my 2016 bike. Enjoy your bike.
Hooked
Joined: 24 Mar 2011
Posts: 468
Location: FI PKS
Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:00 pm quote
I rode 8000km with my -16 Gts Super ABS. ASR newer reduced power from stand still acceleration.

I have rode 1000km with -19 Gts HPE. ASR reduce power on dry asphalt. Until I made tune for it the way I already explained.

Another way is to disable ASR which is less safety way.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 7107
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:44 am quote
theschuman wrote:
If it is still acting up (and if your dealer is close by), I would bring it back to the dealer. This is a brand new scooter! While the posts are helpful and will likely solve your problem, this scooter should be working well enough to allow you a trouble-free break in period. You really shouldnít have to adjust the ASR or troubleshoot issues with a brand new scooter; thatís the dealerís job.
And he could be without his new scooter for a week too by taking it to the dealer.
Member
Vespa GTS Super Sport 300 HPE
Joined: 05 Aug 2019
Posts: 5
Location: California, U.S.A.
Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:34 am quote
Partanen wrote:
My indicator was constantly on when I got my HPE. Dealer should have done the calibration but Piaggio newer told to do so. I did it myself by the owner's manual instructions. Doesn't matter if indicator is on at the beginning. Procedure still works.

First I did it with correct pressures. Just a couple days ago with wrong pressures.
That sounds like my problem - did the indicator start working after you calibrated it, or is it still always a solid ASR in the display?

I talked to the dealership today and Piaggio want them to do a "reprogramming" of the ASR, but I will have to wait a while for a free service slot. Seems like something that should have been done prior to selling the bike, but I'm fine with disabling it for now, so I'm not that upset 🙂. We'll see if the reprogramming works eventually...

If I can calibrate it myself though, and it actually makes the indicator work as well, I would give that a try, to not have to disable it "blindly" every time.

Last edited by bufflig on Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:52 am; edited 1 time in total
Hooked
Joined: 24 Mar 2011
Posts: 468
Location: FI PKS
Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:15 am quote
After calibration ASR indicator behave like ABS indicator. Blinking after start and turns off after few meters.

And if you turn ASR off then indicator is on.

Calibration takes less than 2 minutes. Dealer should do it while you wait.
Member
Vespa GTS Super Sport 300 HPE
Joined: 05 Aug 2019
Posts: 5
Location: California, U.S.A.
Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:48 pm quote
Partanen wrote:
After calibration ASR indicator behave like ABS indicator. Blinking after start and turns off after few meters.

And if you turn ASR off then indicator is on.

Calibration takes less than 2 minutes. Dealer should do it while you wait.
That totally worked! I'm surprised the dealership did not try that - does not inspire confidence... Well, now the ASR light works like it should and the ASR is not overly aggressive either, so all is good \o/

Super great advice from all of you! Thanks a million!
Hooked
Joined: 24 Mar 2011
Posts: 468
Location: FI PKS
Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:06 pm quote
Someday you might consider calibration with wrong pressures. But it depends on your riding style. Anyway good it's working better already. Have fun.
Member
'20 Supertech
Joined: 13 Jul 2019
Posts: 20
Location: New Orleans, LA
Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:47 pm quote
Thank you for posting this!
I don't think mine is quite as bad as yours but the hesitation/slip prevention definitely seems a bit too invasive. I have a feeling this got skipped on the unpacking list at the dealer...
Hooked
Joined: 24 Mar 2011
Posts: 468
Location: FI PKS
Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:49 pm quote
More like no one ever told this chance for dealers. I've helped a couple of guys online already. Piaggio did calibration for previous models on the factory. Now dealers should do it.
Member
'20 Supertech
Joined: 13 Jul 2019
Posts: 20
Location: New Orleans, LA
Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:51 pm quote
Just realized that my ASR light is on constantly no matter what is going on. From before started to system on or bypassed. On the STech it is not a light but a part of the screen. At first I thought it was just an engine running light as it was always on but realized it comes on before I start it.
Enthusiast
GTS300IE
Joined: 01 Mar 2017
Posts: 58
Location: Hove, UK, EU
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:45 pm quote
Check the tyre pressures and valve stem seating? A loose valve stem caused my traction control to trigger.
Hooked
Joined: 24 Mar 2011
Posts: 468
Location: FI PKS
Sat Aug 17, 2019 3:00 am quote
AKentPhoto wrote:
Just realized that my ASR light is on constantly no matter what is going on. From before started to system on or bypassed. On the STech it is not a light but a part of the screen. At first I thought it was just an engine running light as it was always on but realized it comes on before I start it.
All it needs is ASR calibration.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Typhoon 125
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 10821
Location: Oregon City, OR
Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:41 am quote
It is scary how little some dealers appear to know about these machines.
Hooked
2015 Vespa GTS300 Super
Joined: 26 Sep 2017
Posts: 213
Location: Connecticut
Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:04 am quote
Dooglas wrote:
It is scary how little some dealers appear to know about these machines.
+1
Member
'20 Supertech
Joined: 13 Jul 2019
Posts: 20
Location: New Orleans, LA
Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:56 pm quote
Dooglas wrote:
It is scary how little some dealers appear to know about these machines.
I mean it makes sense that the dealers should do it as lord knows how many heat cycles they have gone through on their journey to the dealer which can cause tire pressures to flucuate but I'm guessing its just not updated on the PDI check list...
Molto Verboso
2016 Vespa GTS300ie abs/asr/ess Settantesimo '70'
Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 1954
Location: Not really sure but I think somewhere down South, in the engineering dept at Starfleet's UK HQ
Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:28 am quote
Even when I collected my new 2016 GTS the asr was not calibrated. I bought it from one of the biggest Vespa dealer/distributors in the UK. It just hadn't been done! The rear tyre pressure was 40psi and the front 35psi. The oil level was on the bottom of the dipstick and the coolant level on the low mark. Generally the bike had not received a good pdi. Very poor. Aside from being a retired tech, that's one of the reasons I service my own bikes and I do it according to the manufacturers instructions laid out in the service manual.

By the way, resetting the asr took about 7 mins which including reading the manual on how to do it. It's so easy!

And a further 'by the way'. I wouldn't go altering the tyre pressures (increasing or decreasing the pressure) to recalibrate the asr. It will affect the ecu algorithms that control fuelling and ignition under certain running conditions. It will impact performance by a little but you may not actually notice it under normal riding conditions. There is no need whatsoever to alter the tyre pressures to recalibrate the asr. The ecu software is designed to operate at the stated pressures in the manual for recalibration.
Hooked
Joined: 24 Mar 2011
Posts: 468
Location: FI PKS
Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:03 pm quote
Ecu knows nothing about tyre pressures. My "mod" only cheat ASR a little bit. No harm done to anything. And you can always reset asr with normal tyre pressures, IF you like ASR kicking on when ever you accelerate flat out from traffic lights. Because that's what HPE does.

Edit: My mod allows a little more slippage for rear wheel which is needed when you accelerate WOT from stand still. You get same effect if you turn ASR off by pushing the ASR button. But then it's off completely. With my mod it's still on and helping rider if really needed.
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