Just have to vent
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Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:29 am quote
Today, my wife and I were driving down off Monte Pisano near Lucca. There is a state highway leading back from Casicne Buti to Lucca. As we approached a T intersection which had a yield to us as oncoming traffic, I saw two Vespas enter the road quickly and without really looking. The rest of the intersecting road was blind to me. I slowed to allow them to accelerate away and suddenly a whole group (at least 25 scooters) blew through the yield right in front of me without looking to the left. I slammed on the brakes and then proceeded on in the middle of the pack.

As we drove along, I noticed the scooters ahead would pass each other, ride side by side talking to one another and hit the brakes as they entered the apex of turns. It was apparent some them didn't understand counter-steering. Then I see one asshole sitting side saddle on the scooter while talking to another person.

This looked to be one of those Vespa tour groups. The leader was an asshole. When you approach a stop or yield, you stop to make sure your group is together (they were strung out for a least a quarter kilometer). When you make the turn after traffic clears, one rider enters the intersection and stays stationary as the rest passes. Why none of this was passed on to the riders just pisses me off.

If I rode like that in a group in the States I would deserve to get hit. Sorry to go on, but that type of stupid behavior just pisses me off.
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Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:35 am quote
When in Rome...
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Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:41 am quote
Lost
Even if you told then they wouldn't understand.

Bill x
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Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:01 am quote
Sounds like a typical harley ride. Been there, done that!
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Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:52 am quote
Re: Lost
Bill Dog wrote:
Even if you told then they wouldn't understand.

Bill x
You're right, that is the most disappointing thing.
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Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:00 pm quote
... eh ... sorry to say but the italians have changed for the worse, better not to talk about driving ...
I don't list bad habits but I think you will imagine which ones.
For what concerns me in forty-two years of driving license i had only two fines for speeding (i went to 62 km / h with a limit of 50 km / h) and only three points removed from the driving license.
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Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:03 pm quote
Re: Lost
griffin1108 wrote:
Bill Dog wrote:
Even if you told then they wouldn't understand.

Bill x
You're right, that is the most disappointing thing.
I agree too...

Where do you base griffin?
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Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:54 pm quote
As a member in good standing with the Vespa Club del Mediterraneo, founded by the late, great Al Fragola (Aviator 47) this could never be our group. Al always insisted on limiting the trip to “experienced” riders only. I use quotations because a few of us have greatly improved our skills on these trips by riding with some extremely capable riders who also frequent this website. (Their modesty prevents me from naming them, but they know who they are; I will be seeing some of them in just four weeks as we begin our first ride in Portugal.)

Over the years, I have seen mention of other scooter tour groups operating in Europe, and particularly Italy. I was never motivated to try them as I got the sense that they might be exactly the type of group you encountered. There is great danger in having inexperienced riders traveling as a group.

One thing I have to say about riding side-saddle. I would agree with you completely, but I was reminded of one beautiful day on my Club ride in Tuscany in 2012. My scooter was having power issues (fixed by a new belt and rollers) no doubt enhanced by my excess weight. Our club was riding that day with the members of the Vespa Club of Massa Marittima. One of its members was kind enough to ride with me to drop off my scooter for repair, at a Vespa dealer about 25km away, if I recall. He rode his 125cc GTS side-saddle almost the whole way down. I guess I was inappropriately impressed at the time. But at the time, I thought it was cool.
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Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:49 pm quote
Another story that furthers my decision to not ride in, or with large groups.

So many times I have seen bad riding behaviors from groups who are more interested in the "Hey girls,look at me" thing .
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Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:35 pm quote
JKJ-FZ6 wrote:
When in Rome...
Sit sidesaddle?
Quote:
TIPS ON DRIVING IN ITALY

Unless you’re driving on a major road, you must always yield to traffic coming from the right.
http://www.visitbiella.com/italy_driving.htm

So moral of the story? You cannot take your native driving/riding habits to a foreign country.

The rant is OK. Makes one feel better.

Last edited by waspmike on Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:42 pm quote
Sorry i always hit quote and not edit
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Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:52 pm quote
I can’t believe a Vespa rider would do that. Are you sure they weren’t on Kymcos or some other lesser brand?
Maybe they were indeed Vespa’s but had some Malossi parts installed that turned them into hooligans? I hear that can happen.


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Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:47 pm quote
Another thing to look at ... did they have slippers on their feet instead of shoes?
Those are the most dangerous species ...
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Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:49 pm quote
znomit wrote:
I can’t believe a Vespa rider would do that. Are you sure they weren’t on Kymcos or some other lesser brand?
Maybe they were indeed Vespa’s but had some Malossi parts installed that turned them into hooligans? I hear that can happen.


...or Benelli...
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Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:57 pm quote
waspmike wrote:
JKJ-FZ6 wrote:
When in Rome...
Sit sidesaddle?

Side saddle -- not just in Italy. Made this picture in Denver. Wouldn't take much of a bump in the road to cause flesh to rub on pavement...

vespa_denver_legs.jpg
Scene from a night ride in Denver, Colorado.

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Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:02 pm quote
VESPAsfw3 wrote:
waspmike wrote:
JKJ-FZ6 wrote:
When in Rome...
Sit sidesaddle?

Side saddle -- not just in Italy. Made this picture in Denver. Wouldn't take much of a bump in the road to cause flesh to rub on pavement...
Sigh…those legs wouldn't look so pretty after an evasive maneuver.
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Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:54 pm quote
One of the most satisfying aspects of travel is being able to tell people in other countries the correct way to do things.
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Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:27 pm quote
Ships
And if that doesn't work we'll invade.

Oops A bit of satire there.

Bill x
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Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:48 pm quote
Motovista wrote:
One of the most satisfying aspects of travel is being able to tell people in other countries the correct way to do things.
Oh yes, I remember. But as the years go by I started to do more and more things their way when I'm there. Doesn't always work better, but it's generally a lot easier on everybody.

Could be a political lesson there, another bit of satire. Oops.
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Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:36 pm quote
waspmike wrote:
JKJ-FZ6 wrote:
When in Rome...
Sit sidesaddle?
Quote:
TIPS ON DRIVING IN ITALY

Unless you’re driving on a major road, you must always yield to traffic coming from the right.
http://www.visitbiella.com/italy_driving.htm

So moral of the story? You cannot take your native driving/riding habits to a foreign country.

The rant is OK. Makes one feel better.
Makes sense, except for the fact they had a yield sign on their road, I was on the state highway. This was a tour group on a frolic doing from between 35 and 40 kph on roads with either a 50 or 70 kph speed limit. I forgot to mention how some of them would ride in the opposite lane (yes there were lane lines on the highway) to talk to another rider. I've driven enough in Italy to understand the differences between here and the US. I've been driving here off and on for 10 years and never encountered anything like this. And yes Attila, some were wearing slippers. What was truly frightening was the failure to understand counter steering. One woman nearly dumped her scoot in a turn as she was wrestling the handlebars, not understanding that pushing to the left will make you go left rather than right as she wanted.

Attila, I'm based in Lucca for 3 months. Yesterday drove to the top of Monte Pisano and encountered the devastation from last year's fire. I can't imagine how folks got equipment up there to stop the fire from spreading down to Calci.
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Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:05 am quote
Guys ... when I read these things written by foreign tourists, I feel like crying ...
I don't know how to explain it to you, you have to live here a few years to understand the mentality that, however, compared to forty years ago (when I was twenty years old) is remarkably barbarous. This thing is also seen from the driving style, it is not difficult to see scooter riders with the phone in their hand while driving and smoking a cigarette with the other hand.
When I'm with my scooter inside the row of cars stopped at the traffic lights, I get a bad look because I can't overtake the line on the right or on the left ... it's absurd!
And yes Bill ... we are a difficult people to invade and stay here, because we are confused by nature; I think that Italy is what it is also for this mixture but it is not thought there are negative aspects.
PS: I could never drive in the wrong way like English drivers, now the sense of direction is rooted in me and I think it is so for other things. Griffin ... Sunday and Monday temperatures are between 38 ° and 40 ° !
PPS: Oh God ... when I write long things my written english really sucks
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Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:15 am quote
VESPAsfw3 wrote:
waspmike wrote:
JKJ-FZ6 wrote:
When in Rome...
Sit sidesaddle?

Side saddle -- not just in Italy. Made this picture in Denver. Wouldn't take much of a bump in the road to cause flesh to rub on pavement...


The Pitotti footrest was the 1950s accessory to sit sideways on the Vespa.
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Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:25 am quote
Attila wrote:
Guys ... when I read these things written by foreign tourists, I feel like crying ...
I don't know how to explain it to you, you have to live here a few years to understand the mentality that, however, compared to forty years ago (when I was twenty years old) is remarkably barbarous. This thing is also seen from the driving style, it is not difficult to see scooter riders with the phone in their hand while driving and smoking a cigarette with the other hand.
When I'm with my scooter inside the row of cars stopped at the traffic lights, I get a bad look because I can't overtake the line on the right or on the left ... it's absurd!
And yes Bill ... we are a difficult people to invade and stay here, because we are confused by nature; I think that Italy is what it is also for this mixture but it is not thought there are negative aspects.
PS: I could never drive in the wrong way like English drivers, now the sense of direction is rooted in me and I think it is so for other things. Griffin ... Sunday and Monday temperatures are between 38 ° and 40 ° !
PPS: Oh God ... when I write long things my written english really sucks
You're written English is very good, far better than I would do trying to write in Italian. Thanks for your comments.
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Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:26 am quote
Attila wrote:
VESPAsfw3 wrote:
waspmike wrote:
JKJ-FZ6 wrote:
When in Rome...
Sit sidesaddle?

Side saddle -- not just in Italy. Made this picture in Denver. Wouldn't take much of a bump in the road to cause flesh to rub on pavement...


The Pitotti footrest was the 1950s accessory to sit sideways on the Vespa.
Unfortunately, it wasn't the pillion riding side saddle but the driver -- there was no passenger.
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Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:29 am quote
Clatter
The wrong way ?

Ha it's easy.

I don't even think about it any more when I'm over in the rest of Europe.

Bill x

Last edited by Bill Dog on Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:32 am; edited 1 time in total
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Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:13 am quote
Facts
And riding in a pack is pretty painful isn't it.

They talk about group rides being sociable, yeah but only when you're stationary.

Having to ride with a bunch of others who don't know how to 1 Ride, 2 Ride in a group or 3 Think they can ride is an unpleasant experience.

Give me a maximum of one rider like Fenner * and I'm good for the day.

The rest of you, I'll meet you there

* He's a Telepath.

Bill x
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Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:32 am quote
griffin1108 wrote:
Attila wrote:
VESPAsfw3 wrote:
waspmike wrote:
JKJ-FZ6 wrote:
When in Rome...
Sit sidesaddle?

Side saddle -- not just in Italy. Made this picture in Denver. Wouldn't take much of a bump in the road to cause flesh to rub on pavement...
The Pitotti footrest was the 1950s accessory to sit sideways on the Vespa.
Unfortunately, it wasn't the pillion riding side saddle but the driver -- there was no passenger.
If you saw how they drive the T Max here (with their feet on the passenger's steps) you would be horrified.
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Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:43 am quote
Motovista wrote:
One of the most satisfying aspects of travel is being able to tell people in other countries the correct way to do things.
That's why we're so loved around the world.

We're always right. Especially in their country.
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Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:45 am quote
Re: Facts
Bill Dog wrote:
And riding in a pack is pretty painful isn't it.

They talk about group rides being sociable, yeah but only when you're stationary.

Having to ride with a bunch of others who don't know how to 1 Ride, 2 Ride in a group or 3 Think they can ride is an unpleasant experience.

Give me a maximum of one rider like Fenner * and I'm good for the day.

The rest of you, I'll meet you there

* He's a Telepath.

Bill x
Yes. I have met some of the nicest people on group rides before and after the ride. During the ride I have observed some of the worst lack of skills you can imagine. So different than forty years ago when riders were usually experienced and understood group etiquette.
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Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:49 am quote
amateriat wrote:
VESPAsfw3 wrote:
waspmike wrote:
JKJ-FZ6 wrote:
When in Rome...
Sit sidesaddle?

Side saddle -- not just in Italy. Made this picture in Denver. Wouldn't take much of a bump in the road to cause flesh to rub on pavement...
Sigh…those legs wouldn't look so pretty after an evasive maneuver.
Better wrapped around me than a lamp post.
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Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:58 am quote
Re: Facts
Bill Dog wrote:
And riding in a pack is pretty painful isn't it.

They talk about group rides being sociable, yeah but only when you're stationary.

Having to ride with a bunch of others who don't know how to 1 Ride, 2 Ride in a group or 3 Think they can ride is an unpleasant experience.

Give me a maximum of one rider like Fenner * and I'm good for the day.

The rest of you, I'll meet you there

* He's a Telepath.

Bill x
Yeah, you people who think you know what you're doing are pissing off those of us who actually do!
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Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:08 am quote
This year I volunteered to train as a ride leader for the Toronto Moto Scooter Club.

Staggered formations, hand signals, lane blocking / reserving by the leader riding as tail gunner, single file where safety dictates, pre-ride briefings... the list goes on.

The total polar opposite to the mayhem described by the OP.

I spent a week in Lucca back in 2014. A beautiful base for exploring Tuscany and Cinque Terre.
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Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:10 am quote
Attila wrote:
If you saw how they drive the T Max here (with their feet on the passenger's steps) you would be horrified.
You don't have to ride fast to have a good time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ax5VBqnAuyY&list=PUXY8aQLNZ1FggTwa-GU4rQg&index=4
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Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:14 am quote
VESPAsfw3 wrote:
Side saddle -- not just in Italy. Made this picture in Denver. Wouldn't take much of a bump in the road to cause flesh to rub on pavement...
Steve that shot is stunning. Are you saying you were riding when you grabbed that??? Or were you riding monkey in Dom’s sidecar rig?
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Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:54 am quote
Attila wrote:
Guys ... when I read these things written by foreign tourists, I feel like crying ...
I don't know how to explain it to you, you have to live here a few years to understand the mentality that, however, compared to forty years ago (when I was twenty years old) is remarkably barbarous. This thing is also seen from the driving style, it is not difficult to see scooter riders with the phone in their hand while driving and smoking a cigarette with the other hand.
When I'm with my scooter inside the row of cars stopped at the traffic lights, I get a bad look because I can't overtake the line on the right or on the left ... it's absurd!
And yes Bill ... we are a difficult people to invade and stay here, because we are confused by nature; I think that Italy is what it is also for this mixture but it is not thought there are negative aspects.
PS: I could never drive in the wrong way like English drivers, now the sense of direction is rooted in me and I think it is so for other things. Griffin ... Sunday and Monday temperatures are between 38 ° and 40 ° !
PPS: Oh God ... when I write long things my written english really sucks
........"And remember lads, In this country they drive on the wrong side of the road".

MV5BYzZjMWVlZGYtMmVkOC00NWY1LTg3MjEtZWRlM2RmMDE3ZmRhXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNDk3NzU2MTQ@._V1_.jpg

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Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:50 am quote
David Masse wrote:
I spent a week in Lucca back in 2014. A beautiful base for exploring Tuscany and Cinque Terre.
.... a question: but why does everyone go on holiday in Tuscany? I think that the tourism body of Tuscany works very well.
I do not like it...there are ten thousand places little known in other regions. Click on my My city link below. I take you to see "The water machine" built by Leonardo Da Vinci. Like many antiquities in Italy, it stands abandoned in the midst of wild plants and brambles. Beyond belief:
https://www.radioluna.it/news/2015/09/sermoneta-riscopre-la-macchina-dellacqua/ It carried water from the river Cavata up to the village of Sermoneta at 150 meters above sea level but it is still unknown with what type of pump; but it was driven by a water wheel.
Griffin, did you read my private message?
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Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:25 am quote
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Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:42 am quote
Attila wrote:
David Masse wrote:
I spent a week in Lucca back in 2014. A beautiful base for exploring Tuscany and Cinque Terre.
.... a question: but why does everyone go on holiday in Tuscany? I think that the tourism body of Tuscany works very well.
I do not like it...there are ten thousand places little known in other regions. Click on my My city link below. I take you to see "The water machine" built by Leonardo Da Vinci. Like many antiquities in Italy, it stands abandoned in the midst of wild plants and brambles. Beyond belief:
https://www.radioluna.it/news/2015/09/sermoneta-riscopre-la-macchina-dellacqua/ It carried water from the river Cavata up to the village of Sermoneta at 150 meters above sea level but it is still unknown with what type of pump; but it was driven by a water wheel.
Griffin, did you read my private message?
Thanks for the PM. As for tourism in Tuscany, I think you are right about a tourism board pushing hard. My wife and I have been to Rome (twice), the Veneto, Venice proper, Umbria (near Orvieto) and Sicily. My favorite probably is Sicily, but Tuscany is more "central" for side trips. Since we arrived, we have been to Elba, Orbetello, Switzerland (near Bern) and later will go to Belgium, France and back to Italy after meeting up with our son and going to the Belgian and Italian Grands Prix. While we have a car, if you are in Tuscany you can get around easily by train or bus, something that is next to impossible in Sicily. For our purposes this trip, Lucca fit our needs perfectly. Next time, chi sa?
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Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:22 am quote
znomit wrote:
I can’t believe a Vespa rider would do that. Are you sure they weren’t on Kymcos or some other lesser brand?
Maybe they were indeed Vespa’s but had some Malossi parts installed that turned them into hooligans? I hear that can happen.


That explains my constant urge to put on a balaclava and ride through town like a bat out of hell. I tamper the urge down though one day it may take me over...
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Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:58 am quote
Harbinger wrote:
znomit wrote:
I can’t believe a Vespa rider would do that. Are you sure they weren’t on Kymcos or some other lesser brand?
Maybe they were indeed Vespa’s but had some Malossi parts installed that turned them into hooligans? I hear that can happen.


That explains my constant urge to put on a balaclava and ride through town like a bat out of hell. I tamper the urge down though one day it may take me over...
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