2020 Vespa 300 GTS Super - brake question
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Lurker
2020 300 GTS Super
Joined: 12 Aug 2019
Posts: 3
Location: Harriman, TN
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:21 am quote
I have a brand new 300 GTS Super with about 50 miles on it and Ive noticed that the front break lever makes a squishy noise when you pump the break lever several times - is this normal?

Also, the front break lever is not as firm as the rear break lever - is this normal?

5FFC2663-241D-45A7-BDB7-0B15A5AC5428.jpeg

Hooked
GTS 300ie Touring
Joined: 03 Jun 2018
Posts: 302
Location: Limassol, Cyprus
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:37 am quote
It sounds like you have air in your front brakes. It's easy enough to bleed the system and top-up with brake fluid, but I would take it back to the dealer you bought it from and let them do it. They must have missed it when they did their PDI checks. There should be no charge.
Member
GTS 300
Joined: 03 Jul 2019
Posts: 28
Location: lewisville , nc. 27023
Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:23 am quote
My 2020 GTS 300 has the same mushy front brake symptom.

I asked the same question over on the ADV forum .
One of the guy's there said he had taken his 2020 in for the first service and asked about it.

He was told that Piaggio/Vespa designed the system with more bias toward the back brake being more firm, to help prevent wheel lock up on the front with the ABS system. Due to more weight distribution towards the rear.

It sort of makes sense , but I would appreciate hearing from members on this forum as well. Before I accept that theory.

Thank you for any responses.
Enthusiast
GTS 300 Super
Joined: 04 Nov 2018
Posts: 53
Location: Wisconsin
Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:42 am quote
I haven't noticed that at all on my HPE. I'll pay particular attention next time I ride to see if I feel that brake lever difference.
Member
2019 Kymco Like 150, 2020 GTS 300 HPE
Joined: 08 May 2019
Posts: 37
Location: Nashville
Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:32 am quote
I haven't noticed this on my 2020 GTS either.
Lurker
2020 300 GTS Super
Joined: 12 Aug 2019
Posts: 3
Location: Harriman, TN
Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:33 am quote
They must have missed it when they did their PDI checks. There should be no charge.

What is a PDI check?
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 16494
Location: South East Great England of Britishland
Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:35 am quote
Short
Pre Delivery Inspection.

Bill x
Member
'20 Supertech
Joined: 13 Jul 2019
Posts: 13
Location: New Orleans, LA
Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:15 pm quote
I'm currently at 420miles and I have noticed my front brake is not as tight/firm as it was when I first purchased it. I will bring it up at my first service as well and see what they say. Are braided brake lines a thing for scooters?
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 37389
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:02 pm quote
DandyDoug wrote:
I asked the same question over on the ADV forum .
One of the guy's there said he had taken his 2020 in for the first service and asked about it.

He was told that Piaggio/Vespa designed the system with more bias toward the back brake being more firm, to help prevent wheel lock up on the front with the ABS system. Due to more weight distribution towards the rear.
Sorry, I call bollocks. With full front braking there is no weight at the rear - though a combination of ABS and ASR should prevent stoppies.
Member
GTS 300
Joined: 03 Jul 2019
Posts: 28
Location: lewisville , nc. 27023
Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:48 pm quote
I'm not sure who or what to believe about the braking issue.

I'll ride with it for a bit then if it does not improve to my liking I'll go old school and just bleed the dam thing.
It looks like a real PITA job taking plastic fiddly bits off just to get to the brake reservoir .
Enthusiast
2016 GTS 300
Joined: 09 Nov 2016
Posts: 89
Location: New Zealand
Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:11 pm quote
On my GTS 300 the two brake levers feel about the same. But for the same hand pressure on the lever the rear brake works quite a bit better than the front.
I still mostly use the front brake to even out the wear between the two tyres so I can replace them both at the same time.
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Granturismo 218
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Posts: 5323
Location: South Carolina
Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:06 pm quote
Can you slowly pull the brake lever all the way back to the grip? If you pull it hard, then let off and pull it hard again, does it go back closer to the grip?
Member
2020 Vespa GTS 300
Joined: 19 May 2019
Posts: 17
Location: Westchester, NY
Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:47 am quote
My 2020 is similar. The front brake has more lever movement for the same effect than the rear. Given this is my first scooter, I thought maybe it's a Vespa thing, given all my other bikes have rear brake foot pedals rather than hand levers, I don't have a direct comparison.
Jim in NZ wrote:
On my GTS 300 the two brake levers feel about the same. But for the same hand pressure on the lever the rear brake works quite a bit better than the front.
I still mostly use the front brake to even out the wear between the two tyres so I can replace them both at the same time.
Addicted
Yamaha Tricity 155 my 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 927
Location: Latina (Italy)
Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:24 am quote
If it is under warranty, bring it to those who sold it
Lurker
2020 300 GTS Super
Joined: 12 Aug 2019
Posts: 3
Location: Harriman, TN
Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:28 am quote
Motovista wrote:
Can you slowly pull the brake lever all the way back to the grip? If you pull it hard, then let off and pull it hard again, does it go back closer to the grip?
Wont go all the way back to the grip.

It seems to get closer to the grip by pulling it back multiple times. But still never touches the grip. It basically just feels more spongy than the rear brake.
Addicted
Yamaha Tricity 155 my 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 927
Location: Latina (Italy)
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:34 am quote
... there seems to be air in the circuit ...
Member
GTS 300
Joined: 03 Jul 2019
Posts: 28
Location: lewisville , nc. 27023
Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:25 pm quote
Motovista wrote:
Can you slowly pull the brake lever all the way back to the grip? If you pull it hard, then let off and pull it hard again, does it go back closer to the grip?
Mine does not go all the way back to the grip , either from pulling it hard,let off and pull hard again.
Distance from the grip is maybe a half inch. Kind of hard to get an accurate measurement .It just feels spongy ???

The rear is what I usually expect from at my experience as a former Burgman owner .
Member
GTS 300
Joined: 03 Jul 2019
Posts: 28
Location: lewisville , nc. 27023
Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:17 pm quote
I went out for a putt around town and some back roads today before it got Africa hot.
I was constantly testing the brakes both front and rear.

Front :
The lever never pulled all the way back to the grip. I tried several times to use it alone , was able to slow the bike ok , but never locked the front wheel.
Did not feel any ABS kick in .
The lever would at times feel like it started braking harder and more firmly than at other times ??
I'm still not convinced that a good bleed of the front system might make me feel better. So I'll get around to it soon.

Rear Brake:
The rear feels like it did on my Burgman .
I was never able to get the ABS to kick in on this Vespa.

At no time did I feel like the bike was going to lock up and skid either tire, but I did not feel ABS kick in like you get in a car where the pedal starts to pulsate.
Member
GTS 300
Joined: 03 Jul 2019
Posts: 28
Location: lewisville , nc. 27023
Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:08 am quote
This brake thing is getting more interesting everyday.

I posted the same question over on ADV ; since then several more have noticed this spongy/mushy thing with the front brakes.

One reported that he had been to AF1 in Tx. saw several 2019 and 2020 models. He tried the front brakes on them and said the 2019 models felt like they were what he was used to.
The 2020 models all had much more travel in the lever .

Then a friend just picked up his 2020 GTS 300 and said he noticed a lot more lever travel on the front , but the rear was normal.

Does anyone here have a way to contact Piaggio directly , or the USA distributor to ask about this front brake lever excessive lever travel and the spongy feel ??????????????
Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 1520
Location: Veria, Greece
Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:32 am quote
We also have many similar cases (spongy feeling and big travel) in Greece and Piaggio is actually investigating it. As a first step, they have send us the 2015 directive on how to do a full bleed on the system. Some dealers have replaced both brake master cylinders and the ABS unit under warranty, but the problem reappeared after a few hundred Kms...

Last update was that the problem is still under investigation and dealers were instructed to NOT replace parts under warranty since the problem reappears...
Member
Vespa Sprint 150
Joined: 12 Aug 2018
Posts: 10
Location: AZ, USA
Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:42 pm quote
Bought a new HPE GTS yesterday. All the 300s at the dealer had mushy / numb front brake.

I think they bled mine after it was scary bad on the demo ride. Its better now, but still not great.
Member
Joined: 09 Aug 2019
Posts: 37
Location: Aberdeenshire Scotland
Sat Aug 17, 2019 1:51 pm quote
Spongy lever can be a symptom of a failing ABS pump.

However... there's a difference between "feel" and actual braking effect.
How does it perform under emergency braking, is the stopping distance extended or does it pull up correctly?

Air in the system is a much bigger problem with ABS than without ABS, it can damage the ABS pump.
You don't want to have to pay for one of those, they are seriously expensive.
Piaggio won't want to pay for them either....

I would counsel against any attempt by an owner to bleed brakes on an ABS vehicle which is still under warranty, have the dealer inspect it.
Member
GTS 300
Joined: 03 Jul 2019
Posts: 28
Location: lewisville , nc. 27023
Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:50 pm quote
In my case returning to the selling dealer is a problem.

I bought it several hundred miles from home since the closest dealer tried to sell me a 2018 as a 2020 model . Long story, not worth going in to .

Not sure I want to go there for any type of service , especially warranty work.

Never faced this kind of a dilema before with any new bike/scooter.
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