2020 Vespa 300 GTS Super - brake question
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Member
Vespa GTS Super HPE
Joined: 12 Aug 2018
Posts: 14
Location: AZ, USA
Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:45 am quote
Any more news on HPEs with spongy front brake?

Mine works but feels wooden, and not crisp or strong like a front brake should. Ill address it at the first service.
Hooked
GTS 300
Joined: 03 Jul 2019
Posts: 225
Location: lewisville , nc. 27023
Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:58 pm quote
I took mine to my sort of local dealer, left it not knowing when I'd see it again.
They called me later in the day and said they had bled the front brakes and it was good to go.

I said it would be a couple days until I could get back to pick it up.
The next morning my neighbor say's he will take me over to get the machine.

We get there and the service manager say's it's not ready, when they left last night and pushed it inside the front brake felt ok. When they came in the next morning the brake was as spongy as ever .
They didn't call me because they were going to go deeper in to it and I was not expected that day.
So a wasted 90 mile round trip.

They call me late that day and say it's fixed, and they were going near my house to pick up a machine so they would drop it off.
07:45 am the next morning they are in my driveway with the repaired machine.
He said they bled it twice more with a pressure bleeder, then went on a test ride over a bumpy patch of road , hit the brakes hard enough to activate the ABS system.

I finally got out for a ride this afternoon, the front brakes work just like I felt they should. I am pleased and now plan to send a letter to Piaggio and copy the dealer talking about how they went the extra mile to make sure it was right and delivered the machine to me .

Dealers get a lot of flack on forums for the bad things come of them do. Rarely does anyone give them and ATTABOY'S when the y do the right thing.
Enthusiast
Joined: 09 Aug 2019
Posts: 94
Location: Aberdeenshire Scotland
Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:49 am quote
Not the first Piaggio brake problem, I remember the X10 and Beverly needed the master cylinders replaced at ridiculously short intervals.
Eventually remedied by change of master cylinder design.
Member
2020 300 GTS Super
Joined: 12 Aug 2019
Posts: 12
Location: Harriman, TN
Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:55 am quote
Motovista wrote:
Can you slowly pull the brake lever all the way back to the grip? If you pull it hard, then let off and pull it hard again, does it go back closer to the grip?
To update the situation after trying strapping the lever which worked temporarily, it has become very spongy to the point that it is not safe to drive. It does seem to get closer to the grip after pulling it hard a couple of times.

I am going to take it to the shop next week.
Ossessionato
'15 Blue GTS300 Super, '18 White GTS300 Super
Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 2629
Location: Sydney, Australia
Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:13 pm quote
This mushy front brake on the HPE is widely reported and commented on in the German and Austrian Vespa forums too. Piaggio know of the problem, but haven't come up with a solution yet. So if you also have this problem just keep nagging your supplier to keep nagging Piaggio.
Enthusiast
2020 Vespa GTS HPE Touring
Joined: 28 Aug 2012
Posts: 73
Location: Euclid, OH
Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:23 pm quote
I just picked up my 2020 GTS Touring today. Put about 100 miles on her. Brakes felt fine. Is this issue something I should be on the lookout for? Is it all GTS 300's or only some?

Thanks,

Rick G
Member
2020 Vespa GTS 300
Joined: 19 May 2019
Posts: 27
Location: Westchester, NY
Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:03 pm quote
My dealer bled the brake during first service under warranty this past weekend and that seems to have corrected the soft feel of front brake I had. Now both brakes feel similar in travel and feel.
Enthusiast
GTS 300 Super
Joined: 04 Nov 2018
Posts: 72
Location: Wisconsin
Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:27 am quote
Earlier in this thread I posted that my 2020 brakes were just fine. Well....things change. My front brake lever now pulls all the way to the grip. Pulling it that far engages at least some brake, but I don't know how much. My Vespa goes into the dealer next week.
Enthusiast
GTS 300 Super
Joined: 04 Nov 2018
Posts: 72
Location: Wisconsin
Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:42 pm quote
Update....I dropped off my 2020 GTS at the dealer yesterday. The service tech said that Piaggio would be sending out a service video soon explaining some precise procedure to handle the ABS fix/bleeding procedure. I don't know what that means, but I'm hopeful a fix is on the way. There are three GTS's in line before mine at the dealer.
Ossessionato
2016 Vespa GTS300ie abs/asr/ess Settantesimo '70'
Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2377
Location: Starfleet Command Engineering, Southern UK HQ,
Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:30 am quote
It means there is a procedure to follow when bleeding that particular abs system to make sure all the air is removed from the system. Normally you bleed all abs systems the same as any other system. So this means Piaggio has probably identified a small issue at the factory that has allowed some air to not be purged from the abs system. Normally this will be air in the abs unit itself. It can be difficult to remove if the system is not filled correctly from new. It's done under pressure at the factory and it may mean something has gone wrong on the production line allowing the systems to escape from the factory not bled properly. Getting any remaining air out can be difficult. So there are instructions coming out to all dealers. It will most likely mean emptying the system and starting affresh with new fluid and a pressure fill and bleed.
Enthusiast
GTS 300 Super
Joined: 04 Nov 2018
Posts: 72
Location: Wisconsin
Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:58 am quote
Stromrider wrote:
It means there is a procedure to follow when bleeding that particular abs system to make sure all the air is removed from the system. Normally you bleed all abs systems the same as any other system. So this means Piaggio has probably identified a small issue at the factory that has allowed some air to not be purged from the abs system. Normally this will be air in the abs unit itself. It can be difficult to remove if the system is not filled correctly from new. It's done under pressure at the factory and it may mean something has gone wrong on the production line allowing the systems to escape from the factory not bled properly. Getting any remaining air out can be difficult. So there are instructions coming out to all dealers. It will most likely mean emptying the system and starting affresh with new fluid and a pressure fill and bleed.
Interesting! Thanks.
Hooked
GTS 300
Joined: 03 Jul 2019
Posts: 225
Location: lewisville , nc. 27023
Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:48 pm quote
My mushy front brake issue was fixed by the dealer , but it took him more than one pressure bleed to get it right.

It's been a few weeks since then , it's better but not as firm as I would like .

I may take it back for additional attention .
Member
2020 300 GTS Super
Joined: 12 Aug 2019
Posts: 12
Location: Harriman, TN
Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:20 pm quote
Update on Squishy brakes
2020 Vespa 300 GTS - just took it in to a local shop for a brake bleed and all was good until it sat a couple of days and now it back to squishy again! Arrrggghhh! Not safe to drive!!! I live 140 miles from the dealer and this is a real pain in the ass! I guess I will wait to see if they have a fix at the dealer. Per this forum, this seems to be a known issue. Any dealer who tells you that the system is designed to have bias toward the rear is full of crap!!!

Before this, I strapped the lever a couple of times and it worked ok for a day or two.
Member
2020 300 GTS Super
Joined: 12 Aug 2019
Posts: 12
Location: Harriman, TN
Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:24 pm quote
WiscScoot wrote:
Earlier in this thread I posted that my 2020 brakes were just fine. Well....things change. My front brake lever now pulls all the way to the grip. Pulling it that far engages at least some brake, but I don't know how much. My Vespa goes into the dealer next week.
Please let us know what you find out!
Enthusiast
GTS 300 Super
Joined: 04 Nov 2018
Posts: 72
Location: Wisconsin
Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:46 pm quote
rahler wrote:
WiscScoot wrote:
Earlier in this thread I posted that my 2020 brakes were just fine. Well....things change. My front brake lever now pulls all the way to the grip. Pulling it that far engages at least some brake, but I don't know how much. My Vespa goes into the dealer next week.
Please let us know what you find out!
A quick update...sort of. The service tech called today and said Piaggio has come up with a fix. There's a multi-page description of the procedure and a kit that adds bleeders near the master cyllinders. Sounds encouraging. He's hoping to have the kit in a few days. I'll post again with an update.
Enthusiast
GTS 300 Super
Joined: 04 Nov 2018
Posts: 72
Location: Wisconsin
Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:40 am quote
Another update...

Just heard from the service guy at the dealership. He said that the kit from Piaggio to fix the brake issue won't be available (here in the US) until January. Disappointing!
Hooked
Aprilia Scarabeo 500
Joined: 02 Oct 2019
Posts: 100
Location: Florida
Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:28 pm quote
WiscScoot wrote:
Another update...

Just heard from the service guy at the dealership. He said that the kit from Piaggio to fix the brake issue won't be available (here in the US) until January. Disappointing!
Wow, that is extremely disappointing. So, your scoot sits dormant for months waiting for a fix? That's depressing!
Enthusiast
GTS 300 Super
Joined: 04 Nov 2018
Posts: 72
Location: Wisconsin
Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:39 pm quote
Scarabeo500ie wrote:
WiscScoot wrote:
Another update...

Just heard from the service guy at the dealership. He said that the kit from Piaggio to fix the brake issue won't be available (here in the US) until January. Disappointing!
Wow, that is extremely disappointing. So, your scoot sits dormant for months waiting for a fix? That's depressing!
To be honest, my Vespa would sit dormant anyway due to Wisconsin weather. Still, it'd be nice to have the brake issue resolved a bit quicker.
Hooked
GTS 300
Joined: 03 Jul 2019
Posts: 225
Location: lewisville , nc. 27023
Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:16 pm quote
If I had known about this issue at the time I was looking to buy, I would have passed .

I'm old enough to remember the BS that several of my BMW riding friends went through when ABS was introduced on their models.

I was, and still am a BMW Airhead devotee .

Had one model referred to as "An Oilhead" that gave me nothing but grief , went back to Airhead's after that.

I like this Vespa , but am not convinced I will be keeping it long at this rate from Piaggio's response over this issue.
Member
2020 300 GTS Super
Joined: 12 Aug 2019
Posts: 12
Location: Harriman, TN
Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:46 pm quote
WiscScoot wrote:
Scarabeo500ie wrote:
WiscScoot wrote:
Another update...

Just heard from the service guy at the dealership. He said that the kit from Piaggio to fix the brake issue won't be available (here in the US) until January. Disappointing!
Wow, that is extremely disappointing. So, your scoot sits dormant for months waiting for a fix? That's depressing!
To be honest, my Vespa would sit dormant anyway due to Wisconsin weather. Still, it'd be nice to have the brake issue resolved a bit quicker.
If the fix won't be ready until January, this is approaching Lemon Law replacement. Front break lever pulls all the way back to the grip. Virtually no stopping power. The service guy looked mine up by VIN and they must have a VIN range with defective ABS controls. Lucky me!

Mine goes to the shop in two weeks!!!
Enthusiast
GTS 300 Super
Joined: 04 Nov 2018
Posts: 72
Location: Wisconsin
Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:54 am quote
rahler wrote:
WiscScoot wrote:
Scarabeo500ie wrote:
WiscScoot wrote:
Another update...

Just heard from the service guy at the dealership. He said that the kit from Piaggio to fix the brake issue won't be available (here in the US) until January. Disappointing!
Wow, that is extremely disappointing. So, your scoot sits dormant for months waiting for a fix? That's depressing!
To be honest, my Vespa would sit dormant anyway due to Wisconsin weather. Still, it'd be nice to have the brake issue resolved a bit quicker.
If the fix won't be ready until January, this is approaching Lemon Law replacement. Front break lever pulls all the way back to the grip. Virtually no stopping power. The service guy looked mine up by VIN and they must have a VIN range with defective ABS controls. Lucky me!

Mine goes to the shop in two weeks!!!
Please post if/when you hear any new information about the fix for this issue. I have a call in to Piaggio about it and hope to hear something soon.
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 37878
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Hooked
GTS 300
Joined: 03 Jul 2019
Posts: 225
Location: lewisville , nc. 27023
Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:41 am quote
Thanks for posting the Canadian recall.
Now I can only hope the USA side of Piaggio does the same .
Fingers crossed.
Enthusiast
GTS 300 Super
Joined: 04 Nov 2018
Posts: 72
Location: Wisconsin
Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:58 am quote
DandyDoug wrote:
Thanks for posting the Canadian recall.
Now I can only hope the USA side of Piaggio does the same .
Fingers crossed.
Agreed!
For what it's worth, the Canadian fix sounds exactly the same as the fix I heard from the dealer near me in Wisconsin. He said the repair kits are on the way, but may not be available until April. The long timeline seems slightly crazy to me.
Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 1756
Location: Veria, Greece
Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:39 am quote
The recall was also announced in Greece and affected customers were notified. Same kit...
Enthusiast
GTS 300 Super
Joined: 04 Nov 2018
Posts: 72
Location: Wisconsin
Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:03 am quote
Sorry if I'm clogging up this thread with so many posts, but...

Just heard from a rep from Piaggio. She said I'd be getting a letter about the brake issue within the next few days. The repair kits from Piaggio will air ship, so she thought dealers would have them within the next few weeks. Sounds encouraging!
Hooked
GTS 300
Joined: 03 Jul 2019
Posts: 225
Location: lewisville , nc. 27023
Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:23 am quote
Talked with my dealer today. He is picking up the Vespa tomorrow morning.

He said that he needs to have the machine in the shop . Then file a claim with Piaggio and the parts will be sent.

I'm hoping that getting this done now , during winter when the shop is not so busy is the right decision.

Look forward to some nice rides with brakes that operate as they should.
Sponsor
Joined: 16 May 2011
Posts: 393
Location: Austin on IH35
Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:50 am quote
Recall is active (or about to be) in the US. 2019 GTS and 2020 GTS HPE models effected

NHTSA Recall 19V-826

Have your dealer run your VIN.

We got a big list of sold and showroom scoots to fix.
Hooked
GTS 300
Joined: 03 Jul 2019
Posts: 225
Location: lewisville , nc. 27023
Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:50 pm quote
Hey AF1 ,

Thanks for posting about this recall, hope this is all we have to deal with and lot's of riding and buying of Farkles from you is on everyone's radar.
Addicted
2010 gts 300 super. 09 MP3 500 lite
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 525
Location: tampa
Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:58 am quote
I feel bad for those people who bought new scooters and have no safe brakes. all because of unforeseen one dollar part.

if I had one I would try using silicon brake fluid. there is a good chance it would null the chemical reaction that is taking place.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350, 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 7911
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:41 am quote
jerryd wrote:
I feel bad for those people who bought new scooters and have no safe brakes. all because of unforeseen one dollar part.

if I had one I would try using silicon brake fluid. there is a good chance it would null the chemical reaction that is taking place.
Actually read the recall and it seems to affect scooter that sit a lot.
Hooked
GTS 300
Joined: 03 Jul 2019
Posts: 225
Location: lewisville , nc. 27023
Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:46 pm quote
WEB-Tech wrote:
jerryd wrote:
I feel bad for those people who bought new scooters and have no safe brakes. all because of unforeseen one dollar part.

if I had one I would try using silicon brake fluid. there is a good chance it would null the chemical reaction that is taking place.
Actually read the recall and it seems to affect scooter that sit a lot.
My 2020 GTS started having this problem within the first 200 miles.
Dealer bled the system several times and it was ok for a couple months.

Not sure what constitutes a vehicle left sitting for long periods of time. Mine sat for maybe two weeks at any given time, but not longer than that.

It's a bad bunch of parts that didn't meet OEM spec's . It sucks , but that's what it is. The proof will be after replacing the parts if the brakes function as designed.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350, 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 7911
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:50 pm quote
DandyDoug wrote:
WEB-Tech wrote:
jerryd wrote:
I feel bad for those people who bought new scooters and have no safe brakes. all because of unforeseen one dollar part.

if I had one I would try using silicon brake fluid. there is a good chance it would null the chemical reaction that is taking place.
Actually read the recall and it seems to affect scooter that sit a lot.
My 2020 GTS started having this problem within the first 200 miles.
Dealer bled the system several times and it was ok for a couple months.

Not sure what constitutes a vehicle left sitting for long periods of time. Mine sat for maybe two weeks at any given time, but not longer than that.

It's a bad bunch of parts that didn't meet OEM spec's . It sucks , but that's what it is. The proof will be after replacing the parts if the brakes function as designed.
Well in season 24 hours is a long time for mine to sit.
Hooked
GTS 300
Joined: 03 Jul 2019
Posts: 225
Location: lewisville , nc. 27023
Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:52 pm quote
I was just reading the NHTSA re-call notice ( found it on Asphalt & Rubber)
It's 25 pages and gives all the details of what's involved in the repairs .

Piaggio list's the given time to complete the job as 100 minutes.
Crikey it would take me longer than that just to get the plastic off.

Any way , my dealer calls while I'm reading the 25 pages. He say's the parts came in today and the repairs are done exactly as Piaggio say's.

They are also doing the first service , and we agreed on next Tuesday as the day he will deliver the machine back to me.

I'm excited to see if everything works properly.
Hooked
GTS 300
Joined: 03 Jul 2019
Posts: 225
Location: lewisville , nc. 27023
Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:26 am quote
My 2020 GTS 300 came back from the shop Tuesday .

The brakes feel good , had planned to ride and test them but it has been raining all day and the remainder of the week is forecast to be below my cold limit.

According to the shop manager, they replaced the Banjo fittings both front and rear brakes at the master cylinders on the handle bars. The new fittings from Piaggio have built in bleed points.
So I think with new material in the plating perhaps this will fix the problem . Only times will tell.

I have another slight issue and hope you can give me some ideas to fix it.

When I was re-installing the FACO mid height screen , the left bolt (Rear brake side) does not tighten all the way. The right side ( throttle side) tightens up as it should. ??

The one on the left feels like it it going to tighten , but then gets real easy to turn again , and never tightens all the way.

I took the screen arms back out and do not see any difference in them .

Any ideas ???
Hooked
GTS 300ie Touring
Joined: 03 Jun 2018
Posts: 364
Location: Limassol, Cyprus
Wed Dec 18, 2019 7:08 am quote
DandyDoug wrote:
My 2020 GTS 300 came back from the shop Tuesday .

The brakes feel good , had planned to ride and test them but it has been raining all day and the remainder of the week is forecast to be below my cold limit.

According to the shop manager, they replaced the Banjo fittings both front and rear brakes at the master cylinders on the handle bars. The new fittings from Piaggio have built in bleed points.
So I think with new material in the plating perhaps this will fix the problem . Only times will tell.

I have another slight issue and hope you can give me some ideas to fix it.

When I was re-installing the FACO mid height screen , the left bolt (Rear brake side) does not tighten all the way. The right side ( throttle side) tightens up as it should. ??

The one on the left feels like it it going to tighten , but then gets real easy to turn again , and never tightens all the way.

I took the screen arms back out and do not see any difference in them .

Any ideas ???
They can be fiddly to get them fully inserted into the handlebar housing.

You might find this thread useful:

Windscreen brackets will not catch in mounting holes
Hooked
GTS 300
Joined: 03 Jul 2019
Posts: 225
Location: lewisville , nc. 27023
Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:02 am quote
Thanks for the tip on the video.

I left it set overnight and went back to tighten everything up this morning.
Put a long T handle 8mm tool in and gave it a turn . It tightened up ok so I guess it will be fine now.

In retrospect I should have gone with the OEM mid height screen. I was trying to save a few $$ and as they say, you get what you pay for.

By the way, the brakes are holding ok now.
( so far)
Member
2020 300 GTS Super
Joined: 12 Aug 2019
Posts: 12
Location: Harriman, TN
Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:29 pm quote
Problem Solved
After months of wondering what the hell was going on with my front brake, I found out that Piaggio has issued a recall on certain VIN numbers of 2020 GTS's. Mine was one of them. Took it to the dealer for recall work and replacement parts and the brakes work incredibly well!!! So well that I will have to relearn how to drive it with the excellent stopping power!
Member
2020 300 GTS Super
Joined: 12 Aug 2019
Posts: 12
Location: Harriman, TN
Thu Dec 19, 2019 4:19 pm quote
Re: Problem Solved
rahler wrote:
After months of wondering what the hell was going on with my front brake, I found out that Piaggio has issued a recall on certain VIN numbers of 2020 GTS's. Mine was one of them. Took it to the dealer for recall work and replacement parts and the brakes work incredibly well!!! So well that I will have to relearn how to drive it with the excellent stopping power!
Here's the recall link:
https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2020/PIAGGIO/VESPA%252520GTS%252520300%252520HPE#recalls
Hooked
GTS 300
Joined: 03 Jul 2019
Posts: 225
Location: lewisville , nc. 27023
Thu Dec 19, 2019 4:31 pm quote
Re: Problem Solved
rahler wrote:
After months of wondering what the hell was going on with my front brake, I found out that Piaggio has issued a recall on certain VIN numbers of 2020 GTS's. Mine was one of them. Took it to the dealer for recall work and replacement parts and the brakes work incredibly well!!! So well that I will have to relearn how to drive it with the excellent stopping power!
Yep we all will need to learn to stop dragging a foot and hollering OH SHIT !
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