Are Chinese motorcycles any good?
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eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125/Kymco AK550 I don't care. You can quote me.
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Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:58 am quote
Well, I've just ridden back from my partners house on the TNT and then took the AK out to run some errands.

The difference is that the AK is very serious and it demands a fair amount of application from the rider to ride it well due to its weight and performance.

The Benelli is like a toy to ride and there fore you can just throw it around with abandon which always raises a big smile.

It's quite addictive where as the AK is selective.

I've ridden the TNT for about 150 miles non stop and by the end my ass required a bit of attention but apart from that I was smiling all the way.

It's so much fun.

Bill x
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Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:10 am quote
Re: Click
Bill Dog wrote:
I've been searching for a lighter replacement and they are about the only name I recognise.

Most of the ones advertised are just mufflers not an entire system.

The baffle box is incredibly heavy so I'd like to dump the entire thing.

Bill x
It looks like MAP pricing in the US is about $511 or so, and that's why you are seeing prices from about there to $530.
If you do decide to get one here and want it shipped there on the cheap (as much as possible), let me know.
eeee-bip
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Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:39 am quote
Plus
Thank you so much for the offer.

I really appreciate it.

PM sent.

Bill x
eeee-bip
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Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:56 pm quote
Big
I think that Chinese motorcycles a pretty good.

Are we agreed ?

Bill x
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Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:25 pm quote
... only some brands ...
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:34 pm quote
Attila wrote:
... only some brands ...
...with Italian badges...
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Tue Sep 03, 2019 3:22 am quote
Re: Big
Bill Dog wrote:
I think that Chinese motorcycles a pretty good.

Are we agreed ?

Bill x
In my experience there is a big difference between a Chinese motorcycle and their scooters. I had a 50cc bike with a Honda Cub clone engine and it was a joy. It ran close to 50 mph on a level road and gave me zero problems. It took ten minutes to do a valve adjustment and gave me about 135 mpg. I sold it at 4500 miles when I culled the herd of bikes in my garage.

I get really tempted when I get around a Cleveland Cyclewerks Ace or see a CSC San Gabriel 250 with the CG-250 engines. I would love to get one of either and hit the road. I'm going to make a trip to a dealer soon and look at a Benelli 300. I'm sure my wallet will be shaking in my pocket.
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Tue Sep 03, 2019 3:32 am quote
znomit wrote:
Attila wrote:
... only some brands ...
...with Italian badges...
Touche'.
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125/Kymco AK550 I don't care. You can quote me.
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
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Tue Sep 03, 2019 3:36 am quote
Simple
The 300 has really good reviews.

I'd have one.

There I said it.

Bill x
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125/Kymco AK550 I don't care. You can quote me.
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Location: South East Great England of Britishland
Tue Sep 03, 2019 5:25 am quote
Kakakaka
One of the downs sides of buying a Chinese motorcycle is that it will be worth a lot less than a Japanese or European after a couple of years so be ready for that.

You're probably paying less at the point of purchase so you can't have it both ways.

I'll probably keep this one for a year or so then buy another one.

Yay.

Bill x
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Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:53 am quote
I really don't buy something thinking about resale value. For one it limits your sphere of purchasing. I would love to see how a Benelli is as a day to day, all around bike but the safe thing would be buying a Honda or Kawasaki for a little more money knowing the resale would be better. I would miss out on buying something out of the ordinary though.

Two....I just don't want to be a stereotype. If I follow the crowd I would just be part of the herd. I did a half dozen 300 mile trips on my CF Moto that would have been Wayyy easier on either my 750 Kawasaki or even my 250 Nighthawk. Instead I enjoyed every moment on the China scoot. I even did the Skyride on the CF Moto and had people asking about it all day. People are only faintly aware of Chinese motorcycles, much less scooters.

Enjoy Bean Alley. You're getting the same enjoyment people got 60 years ago on Honda 90s.
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125/Kymco AK550 I don't care. You can quote me.
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Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:59 am quote
Parts
That's probably why I like it so much. It's not a Grom

I think that there are only a couple of things I'm going to change.

The exhaust and the finish on the wheels.

Done.

Bill x
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Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:22 pm quote
I bought a generic gy6 chinese scooter (a Rocketa) a while back and was impressed with the performance. After a while I tried to hop it up, but I just made it louder and slower. So I gave it to the kids and they finished it off. Then I saw a Rocketa 250 for a giveaway price and thought I'd give that a go. Owww, bad idea. It was styled kind of like a Ninja 250 but the fatal flaw was engine vibration. I've never seen anything shake like that. I thought the balancer must be out of phase but when I looked there was no balancer in the cavity. I traded it and ($3k) for a Moto Guzzi 1100cc Jackel. Now that was a good trade.
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125/Kymco AK550 I don't care. You can quote me.
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Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:15 pm quote
Progress
Exhaust has been ordered.

Stainless Steel.

It eliminates the bulk underneath the engine.

Bill x
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Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:19 am quote
Chasbro wrote:
I traded it and ($3k) for a Moto Guzzi 1100cc Jackel. Now that was a good trade.
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125/Kymco AK550 I don't care. You can quote me.
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
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Location: South East Great England of Britishland
Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:05 pm quote
Owl Mug
I think that you raise an interesting point.

The smiles per mile per £ return on the Benelli are very high.

The reaction from other people is priceless also so not only are you laughing at yourself you bring joy to others so do I really care where it comes from ?

Not really.

Bill x
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125/Kymco AK550 I don't care. You can quote me.
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Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:02 am quote
No Country
The Taiwanese scooter blew it's fork leg oil seal today.

Yay. Go China.

Bill x
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Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:57 am quote
This thread just came to my mind:

My friend just bought an almost 20 years old 650GS BMW, with the Austrian Rotax engine.
The bike has a full service history, no failures during the years.

And the connection to China... well, the license for this single cylinder engine was later sold to Loncin... and the start apparently was not smooth (if you'll remember stories about the first years engines...).... but fast forward to today, and guess where the smaller 2 cylinder engines for BMW are made And if you've ridden a F750/850GS, they are quite impressive engines, with good reputation.
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Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:08 pm quote
I am pretty sure I learned of the San Gabriel 250, imported from China by CSC Motorcycles in So Cal, by someone on this forum. Coulda swore it was from this thread but can no longer find the original post. Happy to give props once I figure that out. Anyway...

This... is the (stock) San Gabriel 250, imported from China by CSC Motorcycles in So Cal...



...It has no modern trappings like fuel-injection or ABS. I'm still learning how to manage a petcock and choke. .

This (below) is the version I've spec'd in "cafe racer" style. While it's the slowest "250" I've ever sat on, its holding its own for tooling around town, etc. .

IMG_4651.JPG

Molto Verboso
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Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:37 am quote
That looks really cool especially in cafe racer styling.

My Sinnis Terrain isnít the quickest but have now fitted a 15t pinion (was 14) and Toro exhaust and itís way better.

B5C87ED8-A844-4CBC-B4F7-2EF35975DFC0.jpeg

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Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:33 am quote
northernerbill wrote:
That looks really cool especially in cafe racer styling.

My Sinnis Terrain isnít the quickest but have now fitted a 15t pinion (was 14) and Toro exhaust and itís way better.
Good looking bike,OM. It also looks to have mucho carrying capacity in the paniers and top box.
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Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:50 am quote
It has no modern trappings like fuel-injection or ABS. I'm still learning how to manage a petcock and choke.

The San Gabriel has the Third World copy of the Honda CG-250 engine with pushrods instead of over head cams. It's designed to stand up to abuse instead of absolute speed. With care it will last a good long time.

https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/2018-csc-sg250-san-gabriel-first-ride-motorcycle-review

https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/one-tank-of-gas-through-the-csc-sg250-san-gabriel
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Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:41 am quote
... probably the engine will be the last thing to destroy ...
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Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:28 am quote
I recently read a review of Chinese motorcycles from a respected source, but now I can't locate it.
The summary said they are 'almost good enough' now, and improving very fast. The author said if he were in the market for one, he'd wait a bit longer though to buy.

Here's a Revzilla review of the Benelli TNT300 from China. ($3999) They liked it but they also said "most" Chinese bikes are not quite there yet quality-wise, but are gaining fast.

https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/are-chinese-motorcycles-any-good
Molto Verboso
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Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:54 am quote
Vintage1 wrote:
I recently read a review of Chinese motorcycles from a respected source, but now I can't locate it.
The summary said they are 'almost good enough' now, and improving very fast. The author said if he were in the market for one, he'd wait a bit longer though to buy.

Here's a Revzilla review of the Benelli TNT300 from China. ($3999) They liked it but they also said "most" Chinese bikes are not quite there yet quality-wise, but are gaining fast.

https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/are-chinese-motorcycles-any-good
But thatís a bit like having an incident with a single car driver, and then saying all drivers are the same.

Or eating a crappy burger from a restaurant and then saying all burger restaurants are crap.

Iíd say some are totally caught up, some way behind BUT need to scored on their own merits not the country.........which is I guess the whole point of this thread?!
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Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:46 am quote
northernerbill wrote:
But thatís a bit like having an incident with a single car driver, and then saying all drivers are the same.

Or eating a crappy burger from a restaurant and then saying all burger restaurants are crap.

Iíd say some are totally caught up, some way behind BUT need to scored on their own merits not the country.........which is I guess the whole point of this thread?!
Both articles said similar to your last comment so I donít know why youíd make the first two comments. Thatís not what both articles said.

They both had the opinion that the ďgoodĒ Chinese Bikes are similar to the lowest quality from Japan and the not so good ones werenít worth buying. But, at $1999 for a brand new 250, what would you expect? Thereís always a trade-off of some kind. Thereís no free lunch.
Molto Verboso
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Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:52 am quote
Vintage1 wrote:
northernerbill wrote:
But thatís a bit like having an incident with a single car driver, and then saying all drivers are the same.

Or eating a crappy burger from a restaurant and then saying all burger restaurants are crap.

Iíd say some are totally caught up, some way behind BUT need to scored on their own merits not the country.........which is I guess the whole point of this thread?!
Both articles said similar to your last comment so I donít know why youíd make the first two comments. Thatís not what both articles said.

They both had the opinion that the ďgoodĒ Chinese Bikes are similar to the lowest quality from Japan and the not so good ones werenít worth buying. But, at $1999 for a brand new 250, what would you expect? Thereís always a trade-off of some kind. Thereís no free lunch.
I didnít read the articles, I have a Chinese bike, Iím married into a Chinese family lol so donít need some American bloke whoís never been near my bike or manufacturer telling me if itís ok or not ok.

If that chap had said theyíre crap, you might have gone with it.
If heíd said theyíre now as good if not better.....you might have gone with it.
Molto Verboso
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Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:57 am quote
Sorry I didnít totally answer your question.

Answer.

You wrote your opinion based on his opinion. You like the guy, and rightly so. But your quoting as if you have knowledge, and honesty you donít but your happy to relay his as if itís your own.

I on the other hand have first hand experience and can say the quality is no less than my former Yamaha or Vespa.

Again sorry but thatís why I added those 2 quotes of mine, because I was answering you not revzilla or who ever it happened to be.
Molto Verboso
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Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:01 am quote
Edit, sorry you do quote it as him, but I feel you e gone along with it enough to write it out.

Hope that clarifies that before we argue over who said what instead of Chinese bikes.
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Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:49 am quote
... you lose sight of the point, that is ... when you buy a Chinese motorcycle or scooter, what does it make us prefer? The price comes to mind but there are also excellent vehicles used at the same price and built from known brands; but ... the damn price buzzes in my head. And we block them, it also happened with Korean cars. Reverse the situation, if a perfect Cin Cion Ciao (fancy brand) copy of a BMW RR had the same price, would you buy it anyway?
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Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:20 pm quote
Attila wrote:
... you lose sight of the point, that is ... when you buy a Chinese motorcycle or scooter, what does it make us prefer? The price comes to mind but there are also excellent vehicles used at the same price and built from known brands;
Let me tell you the flaw with that thinking sometimes. You don't really know how that used bike was used. I bought a Kymco Like 50 with an "Electrical issue" that turned out to be a burned piston and barrel from a lack of oil. I sold it to someone who burned out my repairs by running it out of oil.

You never know how the previous owner or owners treated that shined and polished gem you bought. It may have spent its life pinned at redline. Yes, it runs fine now with 50W oil but where will you be two years from now.

If I buy a cheap, new bike I know how it was broken in and used. I'm responsible for how it works and I'm not stuck with someone else's abused machine.
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Wed Sep 25, 2019 3:51 am quote
northernerbill wrote:
Edit, sorry you do quote it as him, but I feel you e gone along with it enough to write it out.

Hope that clarifies that before we argue over who said what instead of Chinese bikes.
I'm sorry you chose to argue with me without even reading the article I linked to. I also wish you could take that chip off your shoulder and be able to differentiate that when someone points out a shortcoming of a Chinese made motorcycle that they are not attacking your Chinese family. You seem to use that as an argument point. One has of course, nothing to do with the other.

I wish I could find the other review and there are still more that I have read that reached the same conclusions. These are not "some bloke" but are reviewed by respected people working for long time motorcycle magazine and media outlets.

They all state that for the most part, (and I know there's always going to be a better quality example and a lesser quality example than "most") that most Chinese bikes are, at this moment, at the lower end of what is made in Japan.
Of course they need to cut corners somewhere in order to sell at $1995 here. The paint is thin, the chrome is thin and doesn't hold up. But if you read the article you'd have also heard many good points that were mentioned, the welds, the brakes, the engine, the nice touches like fully adjustable rider and passenger pegs. Many positives.
Molto Verboso
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Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:17 am quote
Yep no argument aspect coming from me ďbeforeĒ

On the Chinese front and family. Yes I can see your perspective but unless you specifically mention brands as opposed to Chinese people (China is a country, Chinese are its inhabitants) then anyone who is Chinese might easily take offence.
Those same people, companies would happily work for any of the major or minor brands.

I take your point about not reading his reviews but itís pretty clear from your summaryís how it goes so saving my memory space for other stuff.

Iíll also admit I was slightly concerned? When I committed to buying my Sinnis Terrain but Iím sold on this side of things now and am grateful to them for existing and showing the market what you can get for your money.

Think youíll agree weíre kind of going round in circles on this.

I own one
You and others donít
I donít like the Chinese be slurred
You and others donít consider it slur but thatís what the threads about in the end imho

Who wins here is the cleverest and most articulate but our opinions are still correct to ourselves.

So agree to disagree I think.
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Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:22 am quote
About 5 years ago I was admiring a little bike that often used to park next to mine. It was far too small for my frame but I just liked the honesty of the thing and it seemed pretty well put together. I eventually met the owner and he told me how he had been commuting on it weekdays for 2 years (50 miles each way) and how impressed with it he was. He also surprised me when he said it was Chinese. I think he paid a little over £1200 new for it. It was called a Sinnis Trackstar 125.

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Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:24 am quote
A civil, rational discussion of a product has nothing to do with a slur of the people making that product. Products are built to a specification and a price point dictated by the owner of the company. That also dictates the quality. The people making what may be in some people's view an inferior product or a product that they feel needs improvement are not to blame and are not deserving of being the recipient of a slur. THAT is the point you need to understand.

Saying a Chinese motorcycle isn't yet good enough to be on a level of what is coming out of country "J" is not a slur or attack on the Chinese "people".

I married a German girl. If someone reviews a new model of Audi automobile and says it was lacking and could be built better, I don't get upset like someone is attacking my wife.
Molto Verboso
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Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:45 am quote
Vintage1 wrote:
A civil, rational discussion of a product has nothing to do with a slur of the people making that product. Products are built to a specification and a price point dictated by the owner of the company. That also dictates the quality. The people making what may be in some people's view an inferior product or a product that they feel needs improvement are not to blame and are not deserving of being the recipient of a slur. THAT is the point you need to understand.

Saying a Chinese motorcycle isn't yet good enough to be on a level of what is coming out of country "J" is not a slur or attack on the Chinese "people".

I married a German girl. If someone reviews a new model of Audi automobile and says it was lacking and could be built better, I don't get upset like someone is attacking my wife.
You first paragraph is one THAT I do understand and have said the exact same thing either earlier in this thread or the other one. If people arenít talking about the Chinese in this thread who are they talking about.....the Welsh? Thatís what it boils down to when you pick and pick and break it down.

People arenít smart enough to say the Corporations that employ the Chinese, they just blame the Chinese......right or wrong?

3rd paragraph. If on mass the Germans where belittled in a conversation in your ear shot are you saying you wouldnít bat an eyelid?
Molto Verboso
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Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:52 am quote
Looking forward to seeing the new Sinnis T380 which has just gone into production I believe, delayed to meet the new Euro requirements.

eeee-bip
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Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:18 am quote
Breathe
Wow Bill, you really do need to calm down a bit.

It's just an opinion and like assholes, everybody has one.

Bill x
Molto Verboso
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Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:59 am quote
Bill Dog wrote:
Wow Bill, you really do need to calm down a bit.

It's just an opinion and like assholes, everybody has one.

Bill x
Calm as a cucumber mate.

I donít see how you can say...,,

The Chinese this, the Chinese that. And then when I defend the Chinese you say, oh no we donít mean the Chinese this and that we mean the Chinese the other.

You canít make blanket comments on a race, itís that simple. Yes I do understand the underlying nature of the comment.

If I made a blanket comment about Americans on here even though itís either linked to an item or the likes you just watch the backlash. Thatís my point.

Still very calm by the way Bill
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Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:42 am quote
kz1000ST wrote:
If I buy a cheap, new bike I know how it was broken in and used. I'm responsible for how it works and I'm not stuck with someone else's abused machine.
Clear that not all used vehicles are wrecked, to buy them you go with a mechanic and you will use caution in buying. I have never been wrong in doing so. And I'm not the type who believes that everything that glitters is gold.
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