Ban on a Vespa!
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Molto Verboso
Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956 - Moto Guzzi Airone 250 Sport 1951
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
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Location: Latina (Italy)
Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:07 am quote
la Repubblica: Genova, via al decreto "anti-Vespa".
https://www.repubblica.it/motori/sezioni/attualita/2019/09/04/news/genova_via_al_decreto_anti-vespa_-235144777/

It's called "anti-Vespa ordinance" and the name is enough to understand the revolution, cultural, social, before being an environmentalist who is going to overwhelm Genoa. The mayor of the city, Marco Bucci, was clear: "This week will be released the ordinance prohibiting entry into a portion of the city for vehicles from € 2 down," he explained. The order is in fact already ready and is only awaiting the green light of the junta.

Let me be clear, many other Italian cities - including the capital, where, however, no one controls ... - have banned the use of the most polluting two-wheeled vehicles, but it is only in Genoa that a normal municipal ordinance has taken the character of anti-Vespa crusade: there the number of vintage Piaggio scooters that circulate is enormous and - in fact - there are no two-stroke old two-wheelers, apart from Vespa.
Molto Verboso
2009 GTS 250, 2013 Buddy 125, 2014 Triumph Bonneville
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Location: North Jersey
Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:50 am quote
Everyone is for environmental health regulations until it affects them.

If you need to keep your old 2-stroke out of Genoa, so be it.
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
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Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:51 am quote
Case
Put them in a Museum where they belong.

Bill x
Molto Verboso
Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956 - Moto Guzzi Airone 250 Sport 1951
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Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:15 am quote
I have to admit that someone takes advantage because in Italy the vintage motorcycles ascertained by the Commission of Historical Motorcycles of the Italian Motorcycle Federation, pay reduced insurance and much ... even 300 - 400 € less every year.
Hooked
2010 GTS 300(Sold) 2008 Silverwing "Train"/2006 GT200L "Lone Star"
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Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:49 am quote
Smokin'
Very few engines sound as good as a two stroke on the pipe. Three of my previous loves.

Bryan GT750-89-9206012018.jpeg

IMG_0410.jpg

IMG_0177.jpg

Molto Verboso
Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956 - Moto Guzzi Airone 250 Sport 1951
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 1240
Location: Latina (Italy)
Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:57 am quote
...oh God! oh GOD!!!

No mystic visions! Ouch!

I know the Suzuki 750 2 stroke too well (that is the last type), how many terminal cones of the mufflers have you lost? On the first series, you can unscrew the retaining screws.
The RD 400 never arrived in Italy, only the 350.
Hooked
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Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:02 am quote
Attila wrote:
...oh God! oh GOD!!!

No mystic visions! Ouch!

I know the Suzuki 750 2 stroke too well, how many terminal cones of the mufflers have you lost? On the first series, you can unscrew the retaining screws.
The RD 400 never arrived in Italy, only the 350.
The later GT750s in the US didn't have the exhaust cones, or the interconnect pipes at the front, fortunately.

I had several RD250/350/400s over the years. Fun, fun bikes.
Molto Verboso
Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956 - Moto Guzzi Airone 250 Sport 1951
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Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:04 am quote
I had a GT 380 in 1979 and then a Kawasaki KH 400, the last series of 2-stroke Japanese bikes went very well ... but the chassis and suspension were worth it...K.O.
Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
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Location: Veria, Greece
Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:11 am quote
Unfortunately this is the sad truth. ULEZ and E10, E15, and higher ethanol percentage gas will kill our beloved 2 stroke Vespas. We knew it was coming one day but most of us back then, joked that we will be paying for special gas in the future, just to run our Vespas only in the weekends...
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Granturismo 218
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Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:13 am quote
More like a ban on visible air.

I like two strokes, but I don't like riding behind them.
An acquaintance of mine was a factory racer for Kawasaki when they had the big triples, and he said that as soon as you got out in front, you didn't know if you were going to win or the middle cylinder was going to seize.
Molto Verboso
Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956 - Moto Guzzi Airone 250 Sport 1951
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Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:21 am quote
SaFiS wrote:
Unfortunately this is the sad truth. ULEZ and E10, E15, and higher ethanol percentage gas will kill our beloved 2 stroke Vespas. We knew it was coming one day but most of us back then, joked that we will be paying for special gas in the future, just to run our Vespas only in the weekends...
... you dismantle the gasoline engine and put in an electric motor ...and in future Motovista will only sell electric cables and batteries.

Last edited by Attila on Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:25 am; edited 1 time in total
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
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Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:24 am quote
Sound
Burble Burble Burble.

Bill x
Molto Verboso
Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956 - Moto Guzzi Airone 250 Sport 1951
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
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Location: Latina (Italy)
Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:26 am quote
Re: Sound
Bill Dog wrote:
Burble Burble Burble.

Bill x
I was going to call you, then send me your Messenger contact
Molto Verboso
GTV300 (wife's)
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Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:29 am quote
I had a flash back when I saw that RD400 had some good fun riding the one I had, also had it's little brother the RD200. That one ran good till the little gear for the Auto-lube pump fell off! $120 for a new crank assembly and a couple gaskets and it was back in service!
Molto Verboso
Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956 - Moto Guzzi Airone 250 Sport 1951
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 1240
Location: Latina (Italy)
Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:37 am quote
No ... here until the 80s there was protectionism on Italian motorcycles and foreign motorbikes entered in small quantities and only some models. Sin...
You could only see them in specialized magazines
Bill had could have bought a jar like the Hesket V 1000, a true masterpiece of British engineering ... ouch!
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:05 am quote
Sounds like the town would have been a pretty awesome place for spotting/photographing old scooters. Just outside of the banned zone might still be.
Molto Verboso
Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956 - Moto Guzzi Airone 250 Sport 1951
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
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Location: Latina (Italy)
Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:08 am quote
Just go to Naples and its surroundings
Member
Stella
Joined: 28 Jan 2012
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Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:15 pm quote
Government always tends to treat the citizens as their personal lapdogs.
Hooked
2010 GTS 300(Sold) 2008 Silverwing "Train"/2006 GT200L "Lone Star"
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Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:28 pm quote
Motovista wrote:
More like a ban on visible air.

I like two strokes, but I don't like riding behind them.
An acquaintance of mine was a factory racer for Kawasaki when they had the big triples, and he said that as soon as you got out in front, you didn't know if you were going to win or the middle cylinder was going to seize.
Never had problems with smoke or seizing. Always stuck to stock jetting, air boxes, and exhaust systems. I ran Bel-Ray SI-7 synthetic in the autolube systems. Very minimal smoke. No varnish or coking. It was a lot more expensive than bean oil, though.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
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Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:37 pm quote
Attila wrote:
Just go to Naples and its surroundings
Ooh, good...on my list!!
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ET4 S2R 800
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Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:17 pm quote
Attila wrote:
Just go to Naples and its surroundings
haha So true!
Ossessionato
1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
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Location: So Cal
Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:39 pm quote
Mayor Bucci didn’t think this through. The biggest NOx polluters in Genoa are the electricity-producing power plants.

As the saying goes, “There’s no free salami.”
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
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Wed Sep 04, 2019 2:39 pm quote
And then how long it be before ANY machine that has a internal combustion engine is banned?
Ossessionato
PX200, Moto Guzzi V7 Cafe Classic
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Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:06 pm quote
It would break my heart but in the future if I have to install an electric motor in my scoot to keep it on the road then I guess I will. There is a kit available for the conversion but it's too slow and prohibitively expensive. Maybe one day.
Molto Verboso
Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956 - Moto Guzzi Airone 250 Sport 1951
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Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:48 pm quote
redstella wrote:
Government always tends to treat the citizens as their personal lapdogs.
... all over the world, at least we have something that unites us ...
Ossessionato
GT200 & GTS250 & NC750X & Royal Enfield Pegasus
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Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:55 am quote
I guess I'm going to be on my own on this but I wouldn't be keen on living in a small city full of noisy polluting 2 strokes dripping oil all over the place. The individuals that ride them might like the smell of 2 stroke in the morning but the rest of the population probably don't. We have a similar thing going on in London where vehicles have to pass Euro-3 emissions and soon we'll have noise cameras to stop kids riding around at night with race exhausts. I'm all for it but sadly it means my GT 200 has to go.
Enthusiast
2018 Piaggio BV 350
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Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:45 am quote
Re: Smokin'
25BIKEZ wrote:
Very few engines sound as good as a two stroke on the pipe. Three of my previous loves.
My kingdom for that gorgeous green Yamaha! SWOON!!!!!
Molto Verboso
GTV300 (wife's)
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Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:57 am quote
Re: Smokin'
Karlsbadd wrote:
25BIKEZ wrote:
Very few engines sound as good as a two stroke on the pipe. Three of my previous loves.
My kingdom for that gorgeous green Yamaha! SWOON!!!!!
Not a kingdom here but might consider a trade, how about a 1988 Sportster with 117,000 miles on it?
Enthusiast
2018 Piaggio BV 350
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Thu Sep 05, 2019 5:02 am quote
Re: Smokin'
kshansen wrote:
Karlsbadd wrote:
25BIKEZ wrote:
Very few engines sound as good as a two stroke on the pipe. Three of my previous loves.
My kingdom for that gorgeous green Yamaha! SWOON!!!!!
Not a kingdom here but might consider a trade, how about a 1988 Sportster with 117,000 miles on it?
Hey, back off! She's mine...

Only in my dreams, but man what a good dream that would be. Gorgeous.
Hooked
2003 ET2 (SOLD); 2004 GT200
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Thu Sep 05, 2019 5:50 am quote
robinm wrote:
I guess I'm going to be on my own on this but I wouldn't be keen on living in a small city full of noisy polluting 2 strokes dripping oil all over the place. The individuals that ride them might like the smell of 2 stroke in the morning but the rest of the population probably don't. We have a similar thing going on in London where vehicles have to pass Euro-3 emissions and soon we'll have noise cameras to stop kids riding around at night with race exhausts. I'm all for it but sadly it means my GT 200 has to go.
I'm with you on the necessity of reasonable environmental regulations. Obviously this being the community it is we're biased. Perhaps this is part of the bias showing, but the argument can be made that allowing for the grandfathering of already-manufactured and/or vintage vehicles to be exempt from new emissions restrictions actually does provide an environmental benefit: it reduces the demand for new vehicles -- the production of such certainly contributes to pollution. Also, the emissions and gas consumption from a scooter or motorcycle are typically much less than the #1 alternative (at least in the US), a car.

That's the way it is done here in Atlanta, for example. We have emissions requirements for vehicles, but if they're over 25 years old, they're exempt. Motorcycles and scooters are also exempt, so the 2-stroke vs 4-stroke thing is moot. Smog in Atlanta has gone down considerably even with these exemptions.
Hooked
PX 150
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Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:21 am quote
I don't believe there are a sufficient number of two stroke vehicles on the roads in the US for them to be the target of any special laws, other than applicable Federal and California rules at the time they were sold, and continued compliance with those equipment and emissions standards in some jurisdictions where they might be tested. I can go a long time without seeing another two stroke vehicle on the road.
Addicted
GTS 300 Super
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Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:55 am quote
This news seeped into my subconcious as I had a dream last night:
Went on a summer vacation in Italy. Picked up a bunch of parts as Piaggeo is NOTORIOUS for being closed during summer and people need parts.

While tooling around, wound up buying many older machines to ship back to the US or family in Mexico.
Molto Verboso
Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956 - Moto Guzzi Airone 250 Sport 1951
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Location: Latina (Italy)
Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:33 am quote
Sacto Monkeyboy wrote:
This news seeped into my subconcious as I had a dream last night:
Went on a summer vacation in Italy. Picked up a bunch of parts as Piaggeo is NOTORIOUS for being closed during summer and people need parts.

While tooling around, wound up buying many older machines to ship back to the US or family in Mexico.
Do you like old Vespas? Come to me in Latina and I'll fill you a Vespa truck...do you know Mimmo da Velletri ? (Near Rome)
Hooked
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Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:29 am quote
Re: Smokin'
Karlsbadd wrote:
kshansen wrote:
Karlsbadd wrote:
25BIKEZ wrote:
Very few engines sound as good as a two stroke on the pipe. Three of my previous loves.
My kingdom for that gorgeous green Yamaha! SWOON!!!!!
Not a kingdom here but might consider a trade, how about a 1988 Sportster with 117,000 miles on it?
Hey, back off! She's mine...

Only in my dreams, but man what a good dream that would be. Gorgeous.
Thanks. I think I paid $1200 for it in 2006, maybe, and rode it for a year after I rebuilt it. Now I see them (and Kawasaki and Suzuki two strokes) going for five figure prices at auction.

It's funny, though, my Silverwing is in every way better transportation than the RD ever was, but it's an appliance, and the RD was a Fender Stratocaster...
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
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Location: South East Great England of Britishland
Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:59 am quote
Lump
He's an idea which would be brilliant if it wasn't for the unstoppable tsunami of electric vehicles.

So every ten years the insurance companies hike the cost to cover older, less efficient vehicles to the point where it becomes financially prohibitive to run them.

An incentive to buy newer bikes, cars, even trucks is dangled in front of potential customers and the traded vehicle is scrapped, dismantled and recycled.

Manufacturers get to sell more vehicles and their modern engines do less damage to the environment.

One of each last model goes to a beautiful museum where the previous owners can point at them and act nostalgic rather than keep running these inefficient ageing pieces of crap forever because the rest of us have moved on.

Bill x
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
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Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:12 am quote
Shoulders
And this is the reason that Mods exist - Nostalgia.

They had their brief moment of glory in the sun back in 1965 and that was their apex.

Their one true moment when they finally had purpose, a true connection to something acute and real because it formed them. It made them who they were but then they spend the rest of their lives attempting to re live that act.

It never comes so it ends up looking a bit comical.

Bill x

Last edited by Bill Dog on Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:14 am; edited 1 time in total
Hooked
2010 GTS 300(Sold) 2008 Silverwing "Train"/2006 GT200L "Lone Star"
Joined: 15 Jan 2019
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Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:12 am quote
Re: Lump
Bill Dog wrote:
He's an idea which would be brilliant if it wasn't for the unstoppable tsunami of electric vehicles.

So every ten years the insurance companies hike the cost to cover older, less efficient vehicles to the point where it becomes financially prohibitive to run them.

An incentive to buy newer bikes, cars, even trucks is dangled in front of potential customers and the traded vehicle is scrapped, dismantled and recycled.

Manufacturers get to sell more vehicles and their modern engines do less damage to the environment.

One of each last model goes to a beautiful museum where the previous owners can point at them and act nostalgic rather than keep running these inefficient ageing pieces of crap forever because the rest of us have moved on.

Bill x
"...always with the negative waves, Moriarty, always with the negative waves..."

eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
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Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:16 am quote
Lump
More looking to the future.

Not negative, very positive if you like battery metaphors.

Bill x
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
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Posts: 16754
Location: South East Great England of Britishland
Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:26 am quote
Stumble
And that's the problem with electric vehicles.

There's no emotion. No real mechanical reaction to your hand or foot.

Quiet efficiency does not stir the soul and that leaves you feeling hollow.

Bill x
Member
Stella
Joined: 28 Jan 2012
Posts: 38
Location: USA
Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:49 am quote
The regulation of emissions is positive-I've visited counties/cities where they have lagged and I have gagged.

The objectionable part which smacks of Orwell is ignoring the principle that prohibits ex post facto regulation. The old nails will dwindle away naturally except for the odd curiosity.
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