Ban on a Vespa!
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eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
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Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:58 am quote
Wheres the problem ?

It's actually saving that planet.

Bill x
Hooked
2010 GTS 300(Sold) 2008 Silverwing "Train"/2006 GT200L "Lone Star"
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Posts: 324
Location: Texas
Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:13 pm quote
Re: Stumble
Bill Dog wrote:
And that's the problem with electric vehicles.

There's no emotion. No real mechanical reaction to your hand or foot.

Quiet efficiency does not stir the soul and that leaves you feeling hollow.

Bill x
Maybe future electrobikes will come with owner sound choices and external speakers or bluetooth helmet capability. You could specify v-twin, two stroke multi, vertical twin, thumper, Vespa, etc., and have it generated accordingly.

After all, VW, Jaguar, and others pipe artificial sound into their cockpits to enhance the "experience".
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
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Location: South East Great England of Britishland
Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:17 pm quote
Already
I think that sound of a German marching band would be funny.

Or a wheelbarrow with a squeaky wheel.

Bill x
Hooked
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Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:18 pm quote
Re: Already
Bill Dog wrote:
I think that sound of a German marching band would be funny.

Or a wheelbarrow with a squeaky wheel.

Bill x
Member
Stella
Joined: 28 Jan 2012
Posts: 38
Location: USA
Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:26 pm quote
We can all march to heck in lockstep. Willingly and with hearts full of virtue.
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
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Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:19 pm quote
Giggle
Or even the sound of a clowns car at a circus that's back firing and honking it's horn.

Bill x
Molto Verboso
Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956 - Moto Guzzi Airone 250 Sport 1951
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Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:23 pm quote
Re: Stumble
25BIKEZ wrote:
Bill Dog wrote:
And that's the problem with electric vehicles.

There's no emotion. No real mechanical reaction to your hand or foot.

Quiet efficiency does not stir the soul and that leaves you feeling hollow.

Bill x
Maybe future electrobikes will come with owner sound choices and external speakers or bluetooth helmet capability. You could specify v-twin, two stroke multi, vertical twin, thumper, Vespa, etc., and have it generated accordingly.

After all, VW, Jaguar, and others pipe artificial sound into their cockpits to enhance the "experience".
Molto Verboso
Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956 - Moto Guzzi Airone 250 Sport 1951
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Location: Latina (Italy)
Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:34 pm quote
redstella wrote:
We can all march to heck in lockstep. Willingly and with hearts full of virtue.
"We can all march to check in lockstep. Willingly and with hearts full of virtue."
The reference is very interesting...on the web i found.
Ossessionato
LXV 150 3v ie. Midnight Blue (Sold)
Joined: 06 Dec 2010
Posts: 2866
Location: Bangkok
Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:37 pm quote
Motovista wrote:
I like two strokes, but I don't like riding behind them.
Maybe you have never ridden behind a Yamaha TDM 850, which burns oil?

My riding group used to ask me to ride at the back for the reason you allude to until said TDM rider joined one trip then they admitted his was actually worse than mine.
Ossessionato
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Joined: 06 Dec 2010
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Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:40 pm quote
Re: Bits
Bill Dog wrote:
Wheres the problem ?

It's actually saving that planet.

Bill x
If you seriously think that any of this will so called save the planet. You are ill advised?

Save the planet from what and for what? Volcanic action, forest fires, underground coal fires , farting Wilder beast etc, probably have more effect but humans can't manipulate them for their own purposes.
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 16753
Location: South East Great England of Britishland
Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:04 pm quote
Biz
I agree. Carry on regardless like nothings happening.

Ticks box.

Bill x
Molto Verboso
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Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:09 am quote
If you want to save the planet, you need to be more radical without being partial in your choices ...
No Vespa 2 strokes = radical
Yes Vespa but 4 strokes = partial
For some this is becoming a political topic, perhaps it is better to stop.
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
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Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:44 am quote
Sup
Iv'e said it before

Eat less meat.

Have less children if any at all.

Don't go on a cruise

Fly less often, maybe take a train.

Think about what you are actually buying the vehicle for as I don't need a V8 for the school run.

Save the planet for the children that you're not going to have.

Take 2 strokes off the road as they are hopelessly inefficient and polluting plus they stink.

Bill x
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Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:13 am quote
Re: Sup
Bill Dog wrote:
Take 2 strokes off the road as they are hopelessly inefficient and polluting plus they stink.

Bill x
I went on The Distinguished Gentleman's Ride last year and nearly choked to death by riding surrounded by 2 strokes. I could feel the effect 2 days later.
Molto Verboso
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Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:15 am quote
... possible to think of a middle way? There is not only white or only black ...
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
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Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:17 am quote
Give
Well there is.

Ban 2 strokes then people will have to buy more less polluting 4 strokes.

Oh no, we can't do that because it's your right to make me choke on your fumes.

Bill x

Last edited by Bill Dog on Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:20 am; edited 1 time in total
Molto Verboso
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Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:18 am quote
Re: Sup
Touring300 wrote:
Bill Dog wrote:
Take 2 strokes off the road as they are hopelessly inefficient and polluting plus they stink.

Bill x
I went on The Distinguished Gentleman's Ride last year and nearly choked to death by riding surrounded by 2 strokes. I could feel the effect 2 days later.
Next time, you'll get an oxygen-filled respirator...
Hooked
GTS 300ie Touring
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Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:22 am quote
You can't just ban them, but you could get governments to impose punitive road tax charges for ownership of them similar to gas guzzling cars.
Molto Verboso
Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956 - Moto Guzzi Airone 250 Sport 1951
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Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:23 am quote
Sooner or later you had to come to prohibit the circulation of older vehicles but ... there are others less old that pollute a lot and are those with engines that are not well maintained. But hitting two-wheeled vehicles is easier.
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
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Location: South East Great England of Britishland
Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:24 am quote
Biffa
Fine with me.

If you can attempt to reduce exhaust emissions by only allowing cars with registration plates that end on an even number into the city one day and odds the next you can ban 2 strokes.

In LA a Porsche engines emissions are actually cleaner than the air around it on the freeway.

Bill x

Last edited by Bill Dog on Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:29 am; edited 1 time in total
Molto Verboso
Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956 - Moto Guzzi Airone 250 Sport 1951
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Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:26 am quote
Touring300 wrote:
You can't just ban them, but you could get governments to impose punitive road tax charges for ownership of them similar to gas guzzling cars.
Good idea but you don't know Italians ... we don't like paying taxes (and who likes it?) Especially those we consider unfair
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
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Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:30 am quote
Ask
Hello Greece calling.

Bill x
Molto Verboso
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Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:30 am quote
But how do they do in the USA with those immense engines with the problem of pollution? Then I think cars will have exaggerated consumption ...
Molto Verboso
Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956 - Moto Guzzi Airone 250 Sport 1951
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Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:34 am quote
Re: Ask
Bill Dog wrote:
Hello Greece calling.

Bill x
...you are good Bill, the proverb says that whoever does it then expects it...
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
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Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:39 am quote
Distance
Stick around until October and I'll show you something

Bill x
MV Santa
GTS250, 1960 VBA, 1975 VBC, 1980 P200E cutdown
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Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:56 am quote
Re: Stumble
Bill Dog wrote:
And that's the problem with electric vehicles.

There's no emotion. No real mechanical reaction to your hand or foot.

Quiet efficiency does not stir the soul and that leaves you feeling hollow.

Bill x
I'm sure something quite similar was said when internal combustion started to replace horses.
Molto Verboso
Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956 - Moto Guzzi Airone 250 Sport 1951
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Location: Latina (Italy)
Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:00 am quote
Re: Stumble
vintage red matthew wrote:
Bill Dog wrote:
And that's the problem with electric vehicles.

There's no emotion. No real mechanical reaction to your hand or foot.

Quiet efficiency does not stir the soul and that leaves you feeling hollow.

Bill x
I'm sure something quite similar was said when internal combustion started to replace horses.
... it was better to stay with the horses ...
Addicted
GTS 300 Super
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Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:11 am quote
Attila wrote:
Do you like old Vespas? Come to me in Latina and I'll fill you a Vespa truck...do you know Mimmo da Velletri ? (Near Rome)
I LOVE Vintage bikes and cars! I have not purchased one nor worked on one. It was just a dream. Travelling with my family around Italy searching for bikes. I do not know Mimmo Da Velletri.
Molto Verboso
Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956 - Moto Guzzi Airone 250 Sport 1951
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Location: Latina (Italy)
Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:40 am quote
Mimmo da Velletri always has old Vespas (even 98!) For sale, he is a famous restorer and we are very good friends; we talked about this thing about old vehicles blocked by anti-pollution rules but he's not worried and you know why? He says that nobody would dare to stop for fining a beautiful and vintage Vespa because it would be like punishing a religious myth ... and then he pulls his necklace with a crucifix and a small Vespa out of his neck!
Member
Stella
Joined: 28 Jan 2012
Posts: 38
Location: USA
Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:27 pm quote
Attila wrote:
But how do they do in the USA with those immense engines with the problem of pollution? Then I think cars will have exaggerated consumption ...
Emissions control started in the US long before anywhere else in the world. Soot producers like 2 strokes and Diesels were never as popular here either.

And the average vehicle owner here will discard old vehicles for new rather than repair after a while, so older vehicles of all types ar not so common especially on busy commutes.
But this has little to do with CO2 emissions. Those are falling here too but it's really not about old scooters. Which were rare in the first place!
Molto Verboso
Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956 - Moto Guzzi Airone 250 Sport 1951
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Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:31 pm quote
Redstella...
... it was to make a comparison, there are countries in which small polluting vehicles and diesels are more common and others where the engines are only bigger; it is clear that the area occupied by the population influences the method of transport and therefore how to build them. I am aware that in a large country that is also a producer of oil there are no questions or questions regarding the types of vehicles, but in small countries where there are no resources, everything must be optimized. This is why small vehicles are born that consume little, are easy to maintain but have an inherent fragility; do not misunderstand me, in their limits they are sufficiently robust but they are already born as a society object of "disposable" consumption. From this point of view Vespa is the least polluting vehicle because it has fewer plastic parts than the others and is more recyclable.
Addicted
Vespa PX 177 Settantesimo
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Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:34 pm quote
You really think banning 2-strokes would have an impact on a city like London that is congested with cars? Show me some statistics of the levels of pollution generated by 2-stroke scooters in London. Bet you can't find any and there is a reason for that because they are insignificant.

Anyway, I use public transport to get to work in London.
Molto Verboso
Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956 - Moto Guzzi Airone 250 Sport 1951
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
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Location: Latina (Italy)
Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:01 am quote
In Rome, public transport is on fire ... and by doing so they pollute much more: https://lab.gedidigital.it/repubblica/2018/cronaca/bus-incendi/
In Latina (my city) the buses run on methane and in any case it is a small city.
I agree, it's not just stopping the two-stroke engine that reduces pollution but I'm sure it's more of a political move than a real need.
Molto Verboso
2018 Vespa GTS 300 ABS- Bianco
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Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:26 am quote
Re: Stumble
25BIKEZ wrote:
Bill Dog wrote:
And that's the problem with electric vehicles.

There's no emotion. No real mechanical reaction to your hand or foot.

Quiet efficiency does not stir the soul and that leaves you feeling hollow.

Bill x
Maybe future electrobikes will come with owner sound choices and external speakers or bluetooth helmet capability. You could specify v-twin, two stroke multi, vertical twin, thumper, Vespa, etc., and have it generated accordingly.

After all, VW, Jaguar, and others pipe artificial sound into their cockpits to enhance the "experience".
Add FordMoCo to that list of fake exhaust sounds.
Hooked
2010 GTS 300(Sold) 2008 Silverwing "Train"/2006 GT200L "Lone Star"
Joined: 15 Jan 2019
Posts: 324
Location: Texas
Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:24 am quote
Re: Stumble
Kantuckid wrote:
25BIKEZ wrote:
Bill Dog wrote:
And that's the problem with electric vehicles.

There's no emotion. No real mechanical reaction to your hand or foot.

Quiet efficiency does not stir the soul and that leaves you feeling hollow.

Bill x
Maybe future electrobikes will come with owner sound choices and external speakers or bluetooth helmet capability. You could specify v-twin, two stroke multi, vertical twin, thumper, Vespa, etc., and have it generated accordingly.

After all, VW, Jaguar, and others pipe artificial sound into their cockpits to enhance the "experience".
Add FordMoCo to that list of fake exhaust sounds.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350
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Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:48 am quote
Re: Lump
Bill Dog wrote:
He's an idea which would be brilliant if it wasn't for the unstoppable tsunami of electric vehicles.

So every ten years the insurance companies hike the cost to cover older, less efficient vehicles to the point where it becomes financially prohibitive to run them.

An incentive to buy newer bikes, cars, even trucks is dangled in front of potential customers and the traded vehicle is scrapped, dismantled and recycled.

Manufacturers get to sell more vehicles and their modern engines do less damage to the environment.

One of each last model goes to a beautiful museum where the previous owners can point at them and act nostalgic rather than keep running these inefficient ageing pieces of crap forever because the rest of us have moved on.

Bill x
What about people that depend on those older CHEAPER vehicles to be able to own a vehicle at all. This only affects the poor people is the problem with laws like that.
So they now can't afford a car so they can't get to work and now they are on welfare. That worked out well didn't it?
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
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Sun Sep 08, 2019 5:20 am quote
Cough
At least if they are on welfare they won't riding their toxic 2 any more.

You see, every cloud.

Bill x
Ossessionato
GT200 & GTS250 & NC750X & Royal Enfield Pegasus
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Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:17 am quote
johnymoore wrote:
You really think banning 2-strokes would have an impact on a city like London that is congested with cars?
The air has got cleaner since we had congestion charging and banned more polluting vehicles (including 2 strokes). Sure 2 strokes are a tiny proportion of these polluting vehicles but, because they are a part of the problem, they are not allowed in the city any more. Or are you suggesting we ban other polluting vehicles but not 2 strokes?
Addicted
Vespa PX 177 Settantesimo
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Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:46 am quote
robinm wrote:
johnymoore wrote:
You really think banning 2-strokes would have an impact on a city like London that is congested with cars?
The air has got cleaner since we had congestion charging and banned more polluting vehicles (including 2 strokes). Sure 2 strokes are a tiny proportion of these polluting vehicles but, because they are a part of the problem, they are not allowed in the city any more. Or are you suggesting we ban other polluting vehicles but not 2 strokes?
You might wanna get your facts straight. The latest PX still meets EURO3.

Anyway don't give me funny looks in your expensive 4x4 ya tool.
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 16753
Location: South East Great England of Britishland
Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:49 am quote
History
Well, met and they don't make it any more.

And we're on Euro 4 now.

https://www.scootering.com/vespa-px-we-say-classic-piaggio-think-archaic/

Bill x

Last edited by Bill Dog on Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:54 am; edited 1 time in total
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