Is an aftermarket muffle better than stock? I say NO!
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Ossessionato
LXV 150 3v ie. Midnight Blue (Sold)
Joined: 06 Dec 2010
Posts: 2998
Location: Bangkok
Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:43 pm quote
The OP was originally talking about an MP3 exhaust. The OEM one of which may be less restrictive than one from say an ET4.

So we cannot say for sure that all model's OEM is as good as every aftermarket ones. After market ones may or may not have CATs so maybe less restrictive but this only means at high rpm. But the may therefore also be less effective down low but with CVT we don't get "down low". So that depends on the riders style/terrain/locale.

For the 150's the new "Sprint" class are said to have less restricted exhaust than the preceding modes but this may also include other 3v engines like LX/LXV.
I know nothing about later model GTS exhausts. HPE and the like.
Molto Verboso
Kymco AK550
Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 1119
Location: UK
Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:01 am quote
From my direct experience with two MP3 400s I can say that a Leo Vince 4-road did improve the performance and with its standard internal baffle was only a little louder than stock. This together with other changes to the air box and filter made a measurable ( measured by detailed analysis of GPS data over a repeatable test circuit ) improvement. When I put the machines back to stock before trading them in they were noticeably worse in terms of throttle response and acceleration.

If you are not prepared to make experimental changes and rigorously measure the results then just bolting on any old can which is not backed up at least by the manufacturers dyno charts is most likely to produce little or no gain except in noise level and weight reduction. The loud ones are usually the worst for performance and there are more myths about correcting this by some magic fuel mapping changes than I care to try to list.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350, 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 7494
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:44 am quote
roadster wrote:
From my direct experience with two MP3 400s I can say that a Leo Vince 4-road did improve the performance and with its standard internal baffle was only a little louder than stock. This together with other changes to the air box and filter made a measurable ( measured by detailed analysis of GPS data over a repeatable test circuit ) improvement. When I put the machines back to stock before trading them in they were noticeably worse in terms of throttle response and acceleration.

If you are not prepared to make experimental changes and rigorously measure the results then just bolting on any old can which is not backed up at least by the manufacturers dyno charts is most likely to produce little or no gain except in noise level and weight reduction. The loud ones are usually the worst for performance and there are more myths about correcting this by some magic fuel mapping changes than I care to try to list.
High RPM performance, but you loose low end torque.
Enthusiast
mp3 500 2016
Joined: 30 Dec 2011
Posts: 73
Location: singapore
Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:38 am quote
Sometimes,i find even the oem pipe is noisy!struck at the traffic light,off the engine.ah,is so quiet now!
Hooked
2010 gts 300 super. 09 MP3 500 lite
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 441
Location: tampa
Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:20 am quote
found this quote (translated) for a leovince 4 road on mp3 400

His pot leovince on piaggio mp3 400 lt : his bike sound finally we hear the 400 cm3 of the machine! The sound and the look are the only interests of leovince. Slight loss of torque at startup. Slight loss in peak speed. Motorists hear me arrive and that's pretty good for security. 100% original mp3 setup (except the pot now). Be careful the side of the pot is very hot so go for the calves. Good road !
Member
2007 Piaggio MP3 250
Joined: 21 Dec 2010
Posts: 25
Location: Toronto, Canada
Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:26 pm quote
Re: Is an aftermarket muffle better than stock? I say NO!
WEB-Tech wrote:
The mounting strap for my Aftermarket Exhaust broke the other day and I had to put the OEM muffler back on the MP3. Then road up to https://motorelic.com/ to have Sean tig weld the strap back together. (No Charge by the way, took him about 2 minutes.) Well after riding around for a day I noticed the bike had a LOT more low end torque with the OEM muffler.
OEM muffler is staying on.

Unless you are running wide open every time you get on your scooter. You are better of with an OEM muffle IMHO.
Hey OP - If you want to sell your aftermarket MP3 exhaust and it'll fit an '07 MP3 250, I'll buy it!
Molto Verboso
Kymco AK550
Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 1119
Location: UK
Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:05 am quote
WEB-Tech wrote:
roadster wrote:
From my direct experience with two MP3 400s I can say that a Leo Vince 4-road did improve the performance and with its standard internal baffle was only a little louder than stock. This together with other changes to the air box and filter made a measurable ( measured by detailed analysis of GPS data over a repeatable test circuit ) improvement. When I put the machines back to stock before trading them in they were noticeably worse in terms of throttle response and acceleration.

If you are not prepared to make experimental changes and rigorously measure the results then just bolting on any old can which is not backed up at least by the manufacturers dyno charts is most likely to produce little or no gain except in noise level and weight reduction. The loud ones are usually the worst for performance and there are more myths about correcting this by some magic fuel mapping changes than I care to try to list.
High RPM performance, but you loose low end torque.
That certainly wasn't my experience in fact quite the opposite, but then I did take the trouble to optimize the intake with a properly constructed and tested intake can and filter all tested against stopwatch/GPS and tweaked until it worked properly. I am also talking about a complete LeoVince system not just a rear can and I did not remove any baffles from it ( no catalyst though). I'm not entirely sure what you mean by low end torque on a twist and go scooter which hits 4000 rpm and above almost as soon as you open the throttle.

I should also add that the system I used was before LV had a change of ownership after getting into financial difficulties. They published fairly plausible performance curves for it and it was of sufficiently good quality that it survived 6 years of use and at least one fall. It wouldn't surprise me if the new LV is more marketing oriented.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350, 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 7494
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:29 pm quote
Not sure how you test torque and horsepower changes with anything but a Dyno.
Ossessionato
LXV 150 3v ie. Midnight Blue (Sold)
Joined: 06 Dec 2010
Posts: 2998
Location: Bangkok
Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:57 pm quote
jerryd wrote:


anyone have picture like this of the 500 muffler?

sure would like to see that
The most interesting thing about this photo is the length of the front pipe which is actually longer than the whole muffler assembly. Built for torque. Unlike the visual appearance of after market ones where the front pipe changes diameter at or before the muffler so are shorter, ie change optimum rev range, or are built for hp not torgue.

Just by obseration the tail pipe ( the smallest pipe in the picture) is larger on a 150 3v than it is on a 125 3v. So if converting a 125 to 200....
Molto Verboso
Kymco AK550
Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 1119
Location: UK
Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:51 pm quote
WEB-Tech wrote:
Not sure how you test torque and horsepower changes with anything but a Dyno.
or even with a dyno. Inertia dynamometers rely on accelerating against the rotational inertia of a heavy drum and recording the rate of acceleration. All the other stuff that is produced from the ( virtual ) rear wheel speed is just a matter of computation and application of some ( often dubious ) correction factors to allow for frictional losses in the drum, air temperature etc. So I would argue that recording similar data on a know test hill with GPS speed recording is not very different provided wind conditions are still etc. Either method demands careful attention to produce repeatability, ideally by having a very small elapsed time between comparative runs.

Brake dynos on test bed engines are an entirely different matter and manufacturers can use these in what amount to laboratory conditions so that the figures produced have a meaningful accuracy rather than just being a comparative scale that only apply to one dyno in one place on one day.
Hooked
2010 gts 300 super. 09 MP3 500 lite
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 441
Location: tampa
Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:38 am quote
waspmike wrote:
jerryd wrote:


anyone have picture like this of the 500 muffler?

sure would like to see that
The most interesting thing about this photo is the length of the front pipe which is actually longer than the whole muffler assembly. Built for torque. Unlike the visual appearance of after market ones where the front pipe changes diameter at or before the muffler so are shorter, ie change optimum rev range, or are built for hp not torgue.

Just by observation the tail pipe ( the smallest pipe in the picture) is larger on a 150 3v than it is on a 125 3v. So if converting a 125 to 200....
not only do I want to see primary pipe but 500 has "three-way catalytic"
thinking of cutting one open to delete cat. tweak for airflow. stuff with additional sound absorbing materials, reassemble with lighter casing. no question after market pipes do not maintain the original pipe length. thus the loss of low end tq.
Hooked
2019 MP3 hpe 500 sport Advanced " Missy "
Joined: 21 Dec 2018
Posts: 249
Location: West Germany
Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:45 pm quote
new200guy wrote:
HauntedMyst wrote:
The OEM muffler is fine if you like your MP3 to sound like an apology rather than a motorcycle.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350, 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 7494
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:48 pm quote
Hillbilly Fred wrote:
new200guy wrote:
HauntedMyst wrote:
The OEM muffler is fine if you like your MP3 to sound like an apology rather than a motorcycle.
So the Goldwing 1800cc is an Apology?
Ossessionato
LXV 150 3v ie. Midnight Blue (Sold)
Joined: 06 Dec 2010
Posts: 2998
Location: Bangkok
Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:29 pm quote
Hillbilly Fred wrote:
new200guy wrote:
HauntedMyst wrote:
The OEM muffler is fine if you like your MP3 to sound like an apology rather than a motorcycle.
Quick. Everyone get their schwanz out and a tape measure.
Hooked
2019 MP3 hpe 500 sport Advanced " Missy "
Joined: 21 Dec 2018
Posts: 249
Location: West Germany
Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:17 pm quote
new200guy wrote:
always pros and cons changing the exhaust in attempts to add more performance. The stock cans are typically designed to ensure backpressure allows better low end torque and the opposite for a more free flowing can. I live in germany where speed limits on back roads are typically 62mph and of course the autobahn which in most places are not restricted. I typically ride back roads so the performance can would be better for me. waiting around for my first service to replace and add Dr. P sliders and rollers.
Hello Charles. I've a question. Where did you buy your roller? In Calw or in Stuttgart or somewhere else?
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