Rusted & a hole in the battery tray & bottom
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Addicted
2010 Vespa 300 Super
Joined: 04 Oct 2015
Posts: 735
Location: NYC
Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:02 pm quote
So I got around to getting a new battery finally the old one had been in there for the last 9 years, as old as the Vespa.
I knew there was rust on the bottom and I was going to wire brush and clean it up & paint it etc.
Now I find that it isn't just rust, as I vacuumed the insides of the battery tray, rusted metal flakes peeled off and a bit of tapping with my fingers opened up a nice hole.
Question I have is do I take to a body shop and have them cut out the section and weld a plate on or are there any diy solutions that could solve the problem of patching up the hole. I can deal with the rust but sanding priming and painting it.
When I searched the forum for similar issues there are some suggestions like finding the body part out of a salvaged Vespa cut it and weld it on this bike or using fiberglass mess and filler to patch the hole up etc.
What would be a good fix to last through winter i.e. till next April.

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Ossessionato
BV350, Primavera 150, Yamaha Zuma 125
Joined: 06 Jun 2013
Posts: 3172
Location: The Twin Cities of Minneapolis/Saint Paul, Minnesota
Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:08 pm quote
A piece of galvanized sheet metal and some pop rivets should get you through the winter. Good luck!
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350, 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 8635
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:09 pm quote

Throw a piece of screen over it and cover it with Flex Seal.
Might work

Sorry just saw a bunch of Flex Seal Commercials.
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 38953
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:22 pm quote
Lots of wire brushing followed by a good dose of Ospho to convert the rust to Iron Phosphate. Neutralise the Ospho with some bicarb, good rinse, dry, then fibreglass or weld in a new plate and use some quality filler to smooth over. After that the whole underneath needs a good coating of primer, topcoat and then underseal.
Banned
2007 LX50
Joined: 04 Jul 2018
Posts: 69
Location: DC
Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:05 pm quote
Iím afraid I wouldnít ride that. You are likely to get hurt. That scooter frame has succumbed completely to heavy corrosion. First pothole you hit, it may survive. Second, third? Again, nope. Time to find another scooter.

People, itís like this - these things rust. Donít ignore the underside of these scooters. Keep them clean and protected with the corrosion inhibitor of your choice, just donít ignore them or before you know it you are riding a pile of rust with wheels.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350, 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 8635
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:12 pm quote
hitbyastick wrote:
Iím afraid I wouldnít ride that. You are likely to get hurt. That scooter frame has succumbed completely to heavy corrosion. First pothole you hit, it may survive. Second, third? Again, nope. Time to find another scooter.

People, itís like this - these things rust. Donít ignore the underside of these scooters. Keep them clean and protected with the corrosion inhibitor of your choice, just donít ignore them or before you know it you are riding a pile of rust with wheels.
Did you read the post?
That is the battery box, NOT the bottom of the scooter
Banned
2007 LX50
Joined: 04 Jul 2018
Posts: 69
Location: DC
Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:24 pm quote
WEB-Tech wrote:
hitbyastick wrote:
Iím afraid I wouldnít ride that. You are likely to get hurt. That scooter frame has succumbed completely to heavy corrosion. First pothole you hit, it may survive. Second, third? Again, nope. Time to find another scooter.

People, itís like this - these things rust. Donít ignore the underside of these scooters. Keep them clean and protected with the corrosion inhibitor of your choice, just donít ignore them or before you know it you are riding a pile of rust with wheels.
Did you read the post?
That is the battery box, NOT the bottom of the scooter
Then whatís the kickstand thing in the photos then? That for the battery? To answer your question no I didnít read the post. I looked at the pictures, and was horrified by what I saw.

Actually I did read the post. It was entitled "Rust & a hole in the battery tray & bottom" which if you read and speak English means there is rust and a hole in the battery tray and a hole in the bottom. Also I see body plugs, those don't go in the battery tray. those go on the underside of the scooter. But thank you for trying to call me out and make yourself appear superior. Posts like yours are the very reason I prefer the "bad karma" this forum pointlessly saddles people with. Buy yourself a pair of glasses genius.

Last edited by hitbyastick on Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350, 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 8635
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:34 pm quote
Yep miss those pics just saw the battery tray one.
JimC didn't seen concerned so I would think it is safe to ride.

This is why I don't ride once salt is put down in the winter. Then don't put them back on the road till rain has wash is all away.
Enthusiast
LX 50
Joined: 04 Mar 2018
Posts: 66
Location: Winston Salem NC
Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:43 pm quote
baba,

I take it that u have a 2010 GTS 300 Super?
The battery try should have been plastic.
You can order a replacement on-line.

Rust is real problem with Vespas. I try to wash it off, and touch up with primer.
Maybe touch up paint. I'm no expert, but I think ur first plan of attack is to stop the rust somehow. There are products u can get, no recommendation here.

I'm sure they salt the road where u live. Wash it off after u ride.

Cheers!

Ossessionato
2016 Vespa GTS300ie abs/asr/ess Settantesimo '70'
Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 3006
Location: East Anglia, a dryer region of the UK than Israel
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:32 pm quote
Sorry to see this baba. To be honest you've fallen into the Vespa trap which makes folks think everything is fine if you don't check your bike for rust on a regular basis. It's metal so you have to do that and act if you see problems. You don't need to do it very often either, but it does have to be done. I know you know that.

The main thing is to maintain the structural strength of the bike. I'd see if it can be welded. Unfortunately to do that it looks to me as if more metal will need to be removed first to find sound steel. Any remaining metal that's rusty will need to be treated as Jim says before welding. Afterwards, soak everything in a rust killing rust preventing wax chemical such as Waxoyl or Dinitrol (there are several types).

For newbies, rust proofing your Vespa is quite easy. A quick search on here will no doubt turn up some information about how to do this. It's not rocket science. I did mine and I ride the British very wet and salty roads and don't have any rust.

Good luck baba.
Addicted
2010 Vespa 300 Super
Joined: 04 Oct 2015
Posts: 735
Location: NYC
Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:09 pm quote
Just to set the record straight. The structural integrity of the scooter is fine. The rust in most of the bottom is superficial, I just did a rudimentary cleaning with a wire brush this evening and the metal structure is ok. There is corrosion in the actual battery tray and the paint has bubbled up in the bottom near to the front wheel. Around the side stand and to the very back of the bottom there is surface rust.
I plan on putting the bike on its side this weekend, use a wire wheel and sand it and then apply a rust converter gel.
After prepped and cleaned the area properly I plan on fixing the hole and other areas with a temp fix using fiberglass, resin and bondo, sand it prime it and paint it.
That should hopefully hold up till the summer, at that point in time hopefully I will have a permanent solution to implement, I had searched through the forum and there were suggestions for finding a bottom metal piece from a salvage scooter and cutting out the bottom and welding a new piece.

I should have paid attention to it before but did not think modern vespa's were prone to such corrosion. Well lesson learned. I will take pictures through the process and share and hopefully someone will point out mistakes to be corrected when summertime comes .
Thanks for the knowledge shared.
Banned
2007 LX50
Joined: 04 Jul 2018
Posts: 69
Location: DC
Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:09 am quote
baba12 wrote:
Just to set the record straight. The structural integrity of the scooter is fine. The rust in most of the bottom is superficial.
Image second from the top would beg to differ from your assessment. Rust is like an iceberg, you only see the tip. If the visible rust is that bad, imagine what the rust inside and in all the nooks & crannies looks like. I wish I could share your optimism. But I think you will find that if the scooter survives the winter with your temp fix without going crunch right through the middle the second or third time you stress it by riding the cratered NYC streetscape, that the cost of fixing it properly will exceed the value of the scooter by a significant dollar amount. That sheetmetal is well underway toward its goal of returning to the Earth from whence it came. Please keep the forum posted, and don't be embarrassed to come back and say you had to write it off.
Addicted
2010 Vespa 300 Super
Joined: 04 Oct 2015
Posts: 735
Location: NYC
Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:50 am quote
I do know the consequences and lets hope that it prevails. Ill work on it hopefully this weekend and Ill know more once I have cleaned it up before I do any sort of repairs on it. Ill keep the thread alive by reporting back on what is found.
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 38953
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:24 am quote
A primed, non-painted frame is ~$1300 (Painted add $300). That's another option if it seems beyond redemption - cheaper than buying a new one!
Banned
2007 LX50
Joined: 04 Jul 2018
Posts: 69
Location: DC
Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:25 pm quote
jimc wrote:
A primed, non-painted frame is ~$1300 (Painted add $300). That's another option if it seems beyond redemption - cheaper than buying a new one!
That's good news, for those who would consider it. I'd do it in a heartbeat if I had a rotten scooter that I had modified and dialed in and didn't want to part out. It's obvious to me that repairing OP's rust damage will cost more than $1600 in sheer hours of metalfab(experienced bodymen do NOT work cheaply), not to mention shop fees, and the paint job on top of that. With a new frame it would only be paint then swapping parts. Easy but time consuming. So I would consider a new frame a viable and attractive option versus trying in vain to repair all that cancer. To fix that corrosion right and properly would cost a small fortune.
Addicted
2010 Vespa 300 Super
Joined: 04 Oct 2015
Posts: 735
Location: NYC
Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:57 am quote
Update on Rusted & a hole in the battery tray & bott
So that was a year ago.
I was apprehensive to ride in the winter salted roads, and the inspection had expired so I did not ride it much between November 2019 through Feb 2020.
I then took the Vespa to the dealership down the street from me to get a vehicle inspection, was told I needed a new front brake caliper , 3 reflectors or else it wouldn't pass the inspection. I asked for a estimate was told it would $502 (parts + labor + taxes + $6 for inspection)
I thought I had no choice, left the vespa and was walking back home.
Call up a friend who is 65 now. He had a motorcycle shop of his own. Retired and closed the shop when he was 60. got bored and went to work part time at a Ducati dealership in Long Island, he had been a specialist on Japanese bikes and wanted a new challenge at age 63. So he got certified on European bikes Ducati, BMW, Apriliia, KTM and Vespa that dealership owns dealerships for all those brands supposedly. Anyway I call him and mention about this Vespa inspection, he tells me to walk back get the scooter and bring it to him, told me that I was being stiffed. I did what he asked me to do. Then I dropped the Vespa off at his place in the Bronx where he said he would see if there as any truth to the caliper. There was nothing wrong with it. He got COVID19, was treated with Chloroquine which then caused a heart valve to fail along with a blocked artery, he had a open heart surgery and so he was out of action for a few months, long story short I got my Vespa back from his place August 30th. I put in red reflector tape on and then took it to another motorcycle shop in Williamsburg, Vespa passed the test fine.
This past Sunday I decided to do my routine maintenance that I do every year i.e. change engine oil/filter flush and replace coolant and replaced the spark plug.
Took a look at the floor and cleaned a bit more with a wire brush, more rusted metal flakes fell off, which meant I knew if I did not fix this problem before October I would not be riding it this winter for sure.
On a whim I decided to see if I could sell the Vespa and put it on Craigslist on Tuesday afternoon and by the evening I sold it. I got a fair price for it.
I suspect the buyer who works for a Vespa dealership maybe reselling it for a profit once they fix the bottom rust.
So now I am in the market for another Vespa, but I shall see if I can find another lovely vespa like I had.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Lx 50 4T, GTS 250, S 150 (Missing in KS), Something Chinese, GT 200 (sold)
Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Posts: 8823
Location: KS USA
Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:19 am quote
Hi Baba,

The hole in the picture was not caused by rust. It is the breather hose that attaches to the battery tray. And the battery tray snaps right into the hole.


Edited to insert picture

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Last edited by Max6200 on Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:25 am; edited 1 time in total
Addicted
2010 Vespa 300 Super
Joined: 04 Oct 2015
Posts: 735
Location: NYC
Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:25 am quote
Max6200 wrote:
Hi Baba,

The hole in the picture was not caused by rust. It is the breather hose that attaches to the battery tray. And the battery tray snaps right into the hole.
You are looking at the hole in the first picture, the hole I was referring to is in the second picture and I did not take a picture this past Sunday of the further rust damage that was closer to the center stand.
I do believe the buyer may have had his dealership fix it at cost and they can do a better job given they can use air tools and weld as well.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Lx 50 4T, GTS 250, S 150 (Missing in KS), Something Chinese, GT 200 (sold)
Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Posts: 8823
Location: KS USA
Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:29 am quote
baba12 wrote:
Max6200 wrote:
Hi Baba,

The hole in the picture was not caused by rust. It is the breather hose that attaches to the battery tray. And the battery tray snaps right into the hole.
You are looking at the hole in the first picture, the hole I was referring to is in the second picture and I did not take a picture this past Sunday of the further rust damage that was closer to the center stand.
I do believe the buyer may have had his dealership fix it at cost and they can do a better job given they can use air tools and weld as well.
Sorry I did not mean to be preaching to the choir.
Addicted
2010 Vespa 300 Super
Joined: 04 Oct 2015
Posts: 735
Location: NYC
Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:35 am quote
Max6200 wrote:
baba12 wrote:
Max6200 wrote:
Hi Baba,

The hole in the picture was not caused by rust. It is the breather hose that attaches to the battery tray. And the battery tray snaps right into the hole.
You are looking at the hole in the first picture, the hole I was referring to is in the second picture and I did not take a picture this past Sunday of the further rust damage that was closer to the center stand.
I do believe the buyer may have had his dealership fix it at cost and they can do a better job given they can use air tools and weld as well.
Sorry I did not mean to be preaching to the choir.
No Sir, never preaching. I think and believe most of us members here share our knowledge and want to be helpful. So don't apologize and continue to share you wealth of knowledge. Yes we all have our own experiences and we may not be the expert mechanics etc but I think sharing does make us all better collectively as Vespa riders and human beings .
Ossessionato
2016 Vespa GTS300ie abs/asr/ess Settantesimo '70'
Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 3006
Location: East Anglia, a dryer region of the UK than Israel
Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:08 am quote
baba, I think you did the right thing to sell. It would require significant work to make it properly safe in my opinion.

Looking at your original photos, the underside of your bike is clearly not in good condition. In my view, from the photos, it shows a bike that is close to, if not already structurally compromised. The battery tray and that underfloor panel are structural parts and looking at them they have been weakened.

It's worth noting that if your bike was a 2010 model, it's unlikely it had the electrophoretic primer applied to later bikes, which is so good at preventing this sort of thing. However, lack of care is the primary cause of your plight. Sorry to sound critical, but it was easily preventable. But, it's a great learning exercise.

My criticism is not intended to make you feel bad and I'm not waving my finger at you, although it may sound like it. Thanks so much for posting about this though. Fortunately, it's not very common for this to happen.

Edit: forgot to say. I hope no-one follows the advice of Lurgs in his well meant video above. He's a nice guy, that's very obvious, but his method of dealing with corrosion is to be avoided. He is just spreading the problem, not fixing it.
Addicted
2010 Vespa 300 Super
Joined: 04 Oct 2015
Posts: 735
Location: NYC
Sun Sep 27, 2020 2:53 am quote
Stromrider wrote:
baba, I think you did the right thing to sell. It would require significant work to make it properly safe in my opinion.

Looking at your original photos, the underside of your bike is clearly not in good condition. In my view, from the photos, it shows a bike that is close to, if not already structurally compromised. The battery tray and that underfloor panel are structural parts and looking at them they have been weakened.

It's worth noting that if your bike was a 2010 model, it's unlikely it had the electrophoretic primer applied to later bikes, which is so good at preventing this sort of thing. However, lack of care is the primary cause of your plight. Sorry to sound critical, but it was easily preventable. But, it's a great learning exercise.

My criticism is not intended to make you feel bad and I'm not waving my finger at you, although it may sound like it. Thanks so much for posting about this though. Fortunately, it's not very common for this to happen.

Edit: forgot to say. I hope no-one follows the advice of Lurgs in his well meant video above. He's a nice guy, that's very obvious, but his method of dealing with corrosion is to be avoided. He is just spreading the problem, not fixing it.
You criticism is appreciated. My only defense for not taking care would be that I believe the rust was already there when I bought it from the previous owner and I never checked the bottom when I bought it. I assumed it was hunky dory and focussed on everything else. If I had noticed it when I bought it, I would probably have cleaned and fixed it before it became what it was.
Lesson learned and hopefully the next Vespa I get I will be sure to check for rust one and two I shall be prepared to try and prevent it.
WOnder if I can find a used 2016 or later Vespa GTS 300 that is worth owning.
Ossessionato
2016 Vespa GTS300ie abs/asr/ess Settantesimo '70'
Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 3006
Location: East Anglia, a dryer region of the UK than Israel
Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:07 am quote
I'm sure you will find plenty out there. I hope so. We don't want to lose you from the site baba.
Addicted
2010 Vespa 300 Super
Joined: 04 Oct 2015
Posts: 735
Location: NYC
Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:33 am quote
Stromrider wrote:
I'm sure you will find plenty out there. I hope so. We don't want to lose you from the site baba.
I doubt that is likely to happen. Think it maybe a few weeks before I get my new (to me Vespa) but I believe the community is rich, vibrant and sharing. That is nice and wonderful in the times we live in.
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