ET2 Ignition problems. Electrical experts needed.
Post Reply    Forum -> General Discussion
Author Message
Ossessionato
73 Rally, 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 63 Li125, 65 Li225 Silver Special, 86 Elite 80, 2015 HD Road Glide Special, 2011 Ural Tourist
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 3282
Location: Oceanside/ SF
Sat Oct 12, 2019 4:32 pm quote
Ahoy friends,

Iím working on a new friends ET2. It is having ignition problems that iíve narrowed down to the main wiring harness.

So far Iíve,
Replaced the stator/ pickup
Replaced the CDI
Disconnected the kill switch
Disconnected the starter relay
Disconnected the key switch
Disconnected the stator from the main harness.

If I disconnect the main harness from the stator I have consistent strong spark at the plug. If i plug in the harness to the stator I have spark for a few kicks and then nothing.

So far as long as the main harness plug is connected it wont spark, regardless of what else is connected/ disconnected.

The green wire is the ignition/kill wire. I tested it looking for shorts to ground with my multimeter and nothing. Visual inspections came up with no visible chafing. Testing AC voltage at the green wire disconnected from the harness Iím over 60V AC when kicking. As soon as I plug it into the harness I get a spike of 20 and then no AC voltage at the green wire.

So, does anyone have any ideas on how to narrow down where in the harness my problem lies?

image.jpg

Enthusiast
2009 GTS 250 "Noa"
Joined: 13 Oct 2019
Posts: 57
Location: Canada
Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:21 pm quote
Re: ET2 Ignition problems. Electrical experts needed.
MJRally wrote:
So, does anyone have any ideas on how to narrow down where in the harness my problem lies?
I don't know what your exact problem is but if I was looking for an electrical problem I would look for continuity from one end of a wire to the other end. If no continuity I would open up the harness about halfway and check from there to each end. The idea is to narrow down where the problem is.
Ossessionato
73 Rally, 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 63 Li125, 65 Li225 Silver Special, 86 Elite 80, 2015 HD Road Glide Special, 2011 Ural Tourist
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 3282
Location: Oceanside/ SF
Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:37 pm quote
I hear you about checking for continuity. My green kill wire has good continuity and no shorts to ground. Sadly I havent found a good wiring diagram to trace out wires related to the ignition system so Iím shooting blindly here. Once I do, Iíll start checking for continuity/ shorts.

I figured it would be easy to find the problem by testing and then disconnecting one ignition related item at a time until the problem subsided but so far thats not helping.
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 37601
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:41 pm quote
Do neither of the wiring diagrams on my website help?
https://manuals.wotmeworry.org.uk/Vespa/ET2/
Ossessionato
73 Rally, 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 63 Li125, 65 Li225 Silver Special, 86 Elite 80, 2015 HD Road Glide Special, 2011 Ural Tourist
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 3282
Location: Oceanside/ SF
Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:44 pm quote
Ha thanks Jim! Of course I missed it. I downloaded the workshop manual Zip file and was going through those.
Enthusiast
2009 GTS 250 "Noa"
Joined: 13 Oct 2019
Posts: 57
Location: Canada
Sun Oct 13, 2019 6:32 pm quote
If you know the the green wire is the ignition/kill switch do the volts go from 0 to 12 or open to closed if you cycle the kill switch? I'm sorry I don't know your bike I'm just thinking out loud here and trying to help.
Scooter Pimp
------Piaggio Zip 100------
Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 3081
Location: England
Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:40 pm quote
On first read- this sounds like a possible stator problem to me - however i'm not 100% sure by any means.


but...


here is a link to a stator test procedure for piaggio 2 stroke models - the tests are quite easy to do..... so it may narrow down the problem.....

https://www.pedparts.co.uk/blog/piaggio-ignition-fault-finding

hope this helps.
Ossessionato
73 Rally, 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 63 Li125, 65 Li225 Silver Special, 86 Elite 80, 2015 HD Road Glide Special, 2011 Ural Tourist
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 3282
Location: Oceanside/ SF
Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:44 pm quote
Fabio-

Thanks for posting that. I found that same link on a previous ET2 thread and used it to test both the original stator and the replacement I bought from Scooterwest. Both stators turned out ok according to those tests IF I disconnect the harness from the stator.

Using Jimís links it looks like 2 wires at the plug go to the regulator (Yellow and gray), one wire to the key switch (green) and the blue wire to the fuse. Iíll have to confirm with a meter that this everythingís correct and they have continuity, no shorts.
Ossessionato
2016 Vespa GTS300ie abs/asr/ess Settantesimo '70'
Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2218
Location: Starfleet Command, South Eastern UK HQ
Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:35 am quote
Find all the harness earth points and make sure they are all good. That should include the engine earth etc. Remove them all, clean and replace. Use some dielectric grease or vasalene on them to make sure all is good. Then its worth studying the wiring diagram so you can check each bit for continuity. It's time consuming and may take you a while. But it's really the only way if the stator is ok.
Ossessionato
73 Rally, 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 63 Li125, 65 Li225 Silver Special, 86 Elite 80, 2015 HD Road Glide Special, 2011 Ural Tourist
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 3282
Location: Oceanside/ SF
Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:15 pm quote
Sorry for the delay. I was away for work.

I cant find the motor ground connection or the wires to the stater motor, but Iíve disconnected everything else stator related. That includes the key switch, kill switch, starter button relay, starter motor relay regulator and even fuse to the battery.

The new stator checks out exactly as the old one that is since removed.

I verified by kickstarting the scooter with the harness removed and the scooter runs and revs. Connect the harness and the motor dies (even with everything removed).

I started the scooter and using some alligator clips connected the harness connectors except the green kill wire. Everything runs like it should. Moment I connect the green kill wire it dies (again everything is disconnected).

Then I go to test the green kill wire for continuity to ground, nada, nope, zilch, zero. Checked for continuity between the green wire and any other of the 3 wires at the harness connector (yellow, blue, blue/grey) and still nothing.

Bought the $40 ET2 service manual from Scooterwest and it has nothing inciteful. Has a wiring diagram in Italian which Iím slowly comparing to Jimís. So far everything has matched the ET2 later wiring diagram posted on Jimís website.

At a loss now. Going to drink some wine and scratch my head. Anyone got any suggestions?
Ossessionato
73 Rally, 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 63 Li125, 65 Li225 Silver Special, 86 Elite 80, 2015 HD Road Glide Special, 2011 Ural Tourist
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 3282
Location: Oceanside/ SF
Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:14 pm quote
Ok so I lied and it turns out the service manual diagram was different from Jimís. Still following the hunch about the green wire, I changed grounds and used the negative battery terminal as my grounding point and then started wiggling the green wire. I eventually found the short in the green wire right where it branches off to the key switch.

Rather than split the harness open, I cut the green wire at the harness plug and at the key switch. I was also able to remove every wire from the plastic holder with a small jewelers screwdriver. A little solder and insulation later, I had a lone green wire plugged in and every other wire cleaned and put back where its supposed to be.

Fired it up noticed an oil leak coming out of the belt cover. Quick check and the outlet hose coming from the oil pump was nicked. Fixed that and then went to change the brake fluid. Brake fluid looked like Coca-Cola. New fluid in, plastics on, spin around the block and called the owner. Ownerís stoked and out on a test ride at the moment. Hopefully heís happy and this is out of my hair.

Thank you all for your help.

C00ED59B-CCDF-4ADF-A986-425219843C43.jpeg

Team Scooter Trash for Petfinder Foundation   Vespa Wasp Pin Badges   Yelcome Leather Top Cases and Roll Bags for Piaggio Vespa PX LX LXV GTS GTV
Post Reply    Forum -> General Discussion
[ Time: 0.1605s ][ Queries: 25 (0.0363s) ][ Debug on ]