Red Hot
Post Reply    Forum -> MP3 Discussion 12Next
Author Message
Member
MP3
Joined: 04 Aug 2019
Posts: 35
Location: Norway
Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:07 am quote
Hello,

MP3 500 HPE Sport 2019, 2000 kms.

From cold start idling 3mins. the exhaust manifold from the head about 4-5 inches is glowing cherry red.

Same in ECO or Normal mode.

Checked one of the spark plugs (NGK MR7BI 8 ) looks normal, not burnt.
Idling is steady about 1700 rpm, running ok, when the clutch disengages eg., going slow down hill there is some spitting/"burbling" in the exhaust

Is this normal?

Thanks!
Member
MP3
Joined: 04 Aug 2019
Posts: 35
Location: Norway
Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:00 am quote
Does anyone know if it is normal for the header pipe to get red hot on the 500 E4 motor?
Ossessionato
2016 MP3/500 Sport ABS, 2009 MP3/250, 2012 GTS Super 300ie
Joined: 08 Jul 2011
Posts: 4229
Location: Marietta, GA
Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:50 am quote
I have the 2016 ABS Model 500, and mine does not get Red.
I have the LeoVince Nero Exhaust, but it is using the same Header Pipe.

Keith,
Marietta, GA
Ossessionato
BV350, Primavera 150, Yamaha Zuma 125
Joined: 06 Jun 2013
Posts: 2849
Location: The Twin Cities of Minneapolis/Saint Paul, Minnesota
Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:04 am quote
It's not normal for an exhaust to get red hot. Have you checked your valve clearances?
Enthusiast
Aprilia Scarabeo 500
Joined: 02 Oct 2019
Posts: 70
Location: Florida
Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:06 am quote
Definitely sounds like something isn't right. There shouldn't be any reason the exhaust would get that hot, especially at idle. I've seen pipes get hot doing a dyno session, but never heard anything like this. If you have a warranty, you should bring it to the dealer immediately. Have you checked your fluid levels? Oil? Coolant?
Hooked
2019 MP3 hpe 500 sport Advanced " Missy "
Joined: 21 Dec 2018
Posts: 249
Location: West Germany
Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:13 am quote
BJN wrote:
Does anyone know if it is normal for the header pipe to get red hot on the 500 E4 motor?
Hello BJN. I also have a 2019 hpe and mine pops and spits and sputters going down hill every time,but I have never had the header pipe get Cherry red. It could be that your fuel mixture is too rich. I would have that checked if I were you. The pipe is supposed to get really hot,but it shouldn't get that hot.
Member
MP3
Joined: 04 Aug 2019
Posts: 35
Location: Norway
Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:50 am quote
I have been to the dealer who checked with diagnostic, and everything looks normal.
Did not get get an answer if it was normal or not, they said they would check with their technical dept. and call me, haven't got a call yet.

The header is red hot idling (always) even after running, can't see it in daylight (sunny) but in the dark garage it is cherry red!
Hooked
2019 MP3 hpe 500 sport Advanced " Missy "
Joined: 21 Dec 2018
Posts: 249
Location: West Germany
Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:00 am quote
BJN wrote:
I have been to the dealer who checked with diagnostic, and everything looks normal.
Did not get get an answer if it was normal or not, they said they would check with their technical dept. and call me, haven't got a call yet.

The header is red hot idling (always) even after running, can't see it in daylight (sunny) but in the dark garage it is cherry red!
It has been my expirience BJN that seeing is believing,and if they don't see it for themselves,they might not believe you. You might have to show them. I wish good luck in getting that Problem cleared up!
Member
MP3
Joined: 04 Aug 2019
Posts: 35
Location: Norway
Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:14 am quote
The dealer has seen it when they checked with diag.
Ossessionato
2016 MP3/500 Sport ABS, 2009 MP3/250, 2012 GTS Super 300ie
Joined: 08 Jul 2011
Posts: 4229
Location: Marietta, GA
Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:34 am quote
I think I would go to another dealer, or impress on them to contact Piaggio Support. I would also go as far as calling Piaggio and speak to them.
I had an issue with my 2009 MP3 250 years ago, and I called Italy.
It got resolved and my dealer came back to me with their Tail between their legs.

Keith,
Marietta, GA
Member
MP3
Joined: 04 Aug 2019
Posts: 35
Location: Norway
Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:05 am quote
I will contact the dealer on Monday 21 10 to hear if they can explain why the header is so hot, they said they would call me but not heard anything so far.
Member
MP3
Joined: 04 Aug 2019
Posts: 35
Location: Norway
Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:24 am quote
Exhaust picture 2 mins after cold start

IMG_0968.jpg
Exhaust picture

Hooked
2019 MP3 hpe 500 sport Advanced " Missy "
Joined: 21 Dec 2018
Posts: 249
Location: West Germany
Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:06 am quote
BJN wrote:
Exhaust picture 2 mins after cold start
Hello BJN. That doesnot look normal. As I recall, you also said that your roller idles at 1700 rpms. Am I right? In any case,that's too high ! You'er rpms should be somewhere between 1250 and 1500. If your current dealer can't or wont help you,then seak out another Dealer!
Member
MP3
Joined: 04 Aug 2019
Posts: 35
Location: Norway
Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:23 am quote
idle at cold start is close to 2000 rpm and settles to about 1700 on the bikes tachometer.
The picture was taken from cold start without touching the throttle, I didn't rev the engine.
Hooked
2019 MP3 hpe 500 sport Advanced " Missy "
Joined: 21 Dec 2018
Posts: 249
Location: West Germany
Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:58 pm quote
BJN wrote:
idle at cold start is close to 2000 rpm and settles to about 1700 on the bikes tachometer.
The picture was taken from cold start without touching the throttle, I didn't rev the engine.
Hello BJN. A vehicle with a " Catalitic converter "and a "Lamda Sonde " don't need high rpms to warm up. Your rpms are too high. Also I just thought of another possibility. You might have a defective "Catilitic Converter ". Check to see if a free breathing exhaust. A slightly stopped up Converter could possibly cause your Header to turn Cherry Red.
Hooked
Piaggio MP3 500
Joined: 21 Nov 2017
Posts: 211
Location: Austin, TX
Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:24 pm quote
Yes, that's very wrong. I wouldn't run the bike in that condition.
Hooked
2010 gts 300 super. 09 MP3 500 lite
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 443
Location: tampa
Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:37 pm quote
it means your combustion event in the cylinder is happening too late in the cycle. the combustion process isnt complete when the exhaust valve opens. combustion heat is easily able to turn the pipes red hot.

this can mean spark timing is too far retarded. it can also mean mechanical timing set wrong.

not likely catalytic related with such low mileage. severely clogged exhaust will stall engine.

it needs immediate attention and shouldnt be driven. you will burn exhaust valves.

Last edited by jerryd on Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
Addicted
2006 LX150 (carbed) | 2007 GT200
Joined: 29 Jun 2016
Posts: 737
Location: Toronto
Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:54 pm quote


How is your motor not dead yet?!
Member
MP3
Joined: 04 Aug 2019
Posts: 35
Location: Norway
Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:58 pm quote
Thanks everyone for the replying,

I have not observed the glowing header before a few days ago.
I took delivery 08 August and never looked at the header when the motor was running, I first saw it as a reflection in a puddle of water on the garage floor.

I will contact the dealer before I before further use.
Member
MP3
Joined: 04 Aug 2019
Posts: 35
Location: Norway
Sat Oct 19, 2019 4:01 am quote
I have spoken to the dealer today (19 Oct.) and he will get more answers from the Piaggio distributor in Norway.

I want an official statement explaining the condition, and if it's ok or not.

I will have to be extra careful filling gas, not to spill any!!
Ossessionato
Gilera Fuoco 500ie
Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 4052
Location: Netherlands Olst
Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:20 am quote
i think something is blocking your air intake or so
Member
MP3
Joined: 04 Aug 2019
Posts: 35
Location: Norway
Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:56 am quote
I don't have any drivability problems at speed, at 80 kmh and above the motor is very smooth and acceleration is on hand, a steady 50 kmh at about 3000 rpm is ok, 2000-2500 rpm there is some "judder", a lot!, which is the worst thing about drivability.

I wouldn't expect this performance if there was an intake blockage.
Hooked
2019 MP3 hpe 500 sport Advanced " Missy "
Joined: 21 Dec 2018
Posts: 249
Location: West Germany
Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:05 pm quote
BJN wrote:
I don't have any drivability problems at speed, at 80 kmh and above the motor is very smooth and acceleration is on hand, a steady 50 kmh at about 3000 rpm is ok, 2000-2500 rpm there is some "judder", a lot!, which is the worst thing about drivability.

I wouldn't expect this performance if there was an intake blockage.
I think jerryd might be right about the timing BJN. I'm afraid I didn't think about that. It's a good possibility that your timing is a tad off and could also be the cause of your high idle and if that's the problem,it could cause your Engine to run hotter and your header turn red hot!
Member
MP3
Joined: 04 Aug 2019
Posts: 35
Location: Norway
Sun Oct 20, 2019 2:34 am quote
Spark Plug

fuel consumption:last driven

km: 35
average: 29,6 km liter
average speed:52 km hour

The driven 35 kms where from sea level to 300 meters above, (up and down) on twisty roads, max speed was 90 kmh.

IMG_0970.jpg
spark plug

Member
MP3
Joined: 04 Aug 2019
Posts: 35
Location: Norway
Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:03 am quote
Spark Plug 2 inboard

IMG_0971.jpg
spark plug inboard

Veni, Vidi, Posti
Neutrino MP3 492.7 AK, 2013 Moto Guzzi Norge
Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 21407
Location: Harriman, Tennessee, Tn
Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:23 am quote
what ron gas are you using?
Member
MP3
Joined: 04 Aug 2019
Posts: 35
Location: Norway
Sun Oct 20, 2019 7:49 am quote
95 octane
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Neutrino MP3 492.7 AK, 2013 Moto Guzzi Norge
Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 21407
Location: Harriman, Tennessee, Tn
Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:46 am quote
BJN wrote:
95 octane
is that the highest they sell?
Hooked
2019 MP3 hpe 500 sport Advanced " Missy "
Joined: 21 Dec 2018
Posts: 249
Location: West Germany
Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:12 am quote
old as dirt wrote:
BJN wrote:
95 octane
is that the highest they sell?
They have 98 octane ("Unleded Plus"), but most Eropean Engines are built for 95("Unleaded") only. If Im not mistaken ,the higher ("98") Octane burns hotter in the chamber.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Neutrino MP3 492.7 AK, 2013 Moto Guzzi Norge
Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 21407
Location: Harriman, Tennessee, Tn
Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:50 pm quote
Hillbilly Fred wrote:
old as dirt wrote:
BJN wrote:
95 octane
is that the highest they sell?
They have 98 octane ("Unleded Plus"), but most Eropean Engines are built for 95("Unleaded") only. If Im not mistaken ,the higher ("98") Octane burns hotter in the chamber.
no the higher octane actually require more compression to get it to the point to fire . lower octane gas can actually pre ignite before the full compression cycle
Member
MP3
Joined: 04 Aug 2019
Posts: 35
Location: Norway
Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:26 am quote
old as dirt wrote:
Hillbilly Fred wrote:
old as dirt wrote:
BJN wrote:
95 octane
is that the highest they sell?
They have 98 octane ("Unleded Plus"), but most Eropean Engines are built for 95("Unleaded") only. If Im not mistaken ,the higher ("98") Octane burns hotter in the chamber.
no the higher octane actually require more compression to get it to the point to fire . lower octane gas can actually pre ignite before the full compression cycle
maybe I should try 98?

the instruction book states minimum 95 octane and to use no more than 10% ethanol
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350, 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 7498
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:27 am quote
That is not an octane issue, you need to get that to the dealership.
Ossessionato
BV350, Primavera 150, Yamaha Zuma 125
Joined: 06 Jun 2013
Posts: 2849
Location: The Twin Cities of Minneapolis/Saint Paul, Minnesota
Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:41 am quote
WEB-Tech wrote:
That is not an octane issue, you need to get that to the dealership.
+1

Here's a pretty good article on causes of hot exhaust. This suggests that some of the possible causes are leaks, whether in vacuum, valves, or exhaust gaskets. I would take a new scooter back to the dealer. It should be covered under warranty.

https://boostatv.com/glowing-red-hot-exhaust/
Member
MP3
Joined: 04 Aug 2019
Posts: 35
Location: Norway
Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:53 am quote
JKJ-FZ6 wrote:
WEB-Tech wrote:
That is not an octane issue, you need to get that to the dealership.
+1

Here's a pretty good article on causes of hot exhaust. This suggests that some of the possible causes are leaks, whether in vacuum, valves, or exhaust gaskets. I would take a new scooter back to the dealer. It should be covered under warranty.

https://boostatv.com/glowing-red-hot-exhaust/
Thanks for the link!

I am waiting for answers from the dealer
Member
MP3
Joined: 04 Aug 2019
Posts: 35
Location: Norway
Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:57 am quote
Bike is at the dealers...have to wait to see what they find.

mp3.jpeg
Adlands sjoen

Hooked
2019 MP3 hpe 500 sport Advanced " Missy "
Joined: 21 Dec 2018
Posts: 249
Location: West Germany
Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:46 pm quote
BJN wrote:
Bike is at the dealers...have to wait to see what they find.
Nice looking bike BJN
Ossessionato
2016 MP3/500 Sport ABS, 2009 MP3/250, 2012 GTS Super 300ie
Joined: 08 Jul 2011
Posts: 4229
Location: Marietta, GA
Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:23 am quote
BJN wrote:
Bike is at the dealers...have to wait to see what they find.
Love the White !
All my 4 Wheeler's are White, my favorite color.
It was not available when I purchased my 2016.

I watch this thread with interest with that Glowing Red Exhaust Header Pipe.
Just never saw this before.

Keith,
Marietta, GA
Hooked
2010 gts 300 super. 09 MP3 500 lite
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 443
Location: tampa
Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:42 am quote
thats a really fabulous photo.
Hooked
GTS 300
Joined: 03 Jul 2019
Posts: 123
Location: lewisville , nc. 27023
Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:32 am quote
Looking at the spark plugs, I believe the fuel mixture is too rich .
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 37604
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:07 pm quote
DandyDoug wrote:
Looking at the spark plugs, I believe the fuel mixture is too rich .
How so? To tell from the spark plug you have to look at the lower part of the insulator - which isn't visible in those pics. Going just by the upper part, it looks as though it's far too lean a mixture - which is odd considering the FI...
Rallies Europe 2016   vespa scooterwest scooter west Motorsport Scooters   Cool Ass scooter seat cover
Post Reply    Forum -> MP3 Discussion 12Next
[ Time: 0.1970s ][ Queries: 25 (0.0410s) ][ Debug on ]