selling a de-tuned bike - project stock+ - sold
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Hooked
58 VB1T, 81 100 Sport
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 171
Location: Long Beach, CA
Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:26 am quote
sdjohn wrote:
Yeah I'm definitely on sell the P at this point, but the Primi - maybe it waits for spring. I'm still pondering what would replace it, and the most likely answer that's been on my list for a while is a tuned VBB/Allstate on 8's. Not high horsepower, high strung tuned, but more torquey than the P turned out to be, while still running a stock type carb. I'm going to have to study up on the sub-200 block tuning options, but there's been a ton of project threads with them lately, so there is a lot to read!
I fully support the touring-tuned 8" bike plan! Has always been one of my faves combos. Classic style and a little hill-climbing power. Keep it mild and reliable, but tune it to PULL.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 3990
Location: San Diego, CA
Fri Nov 01, 2019 6:18 am quote
OK folks, what kind of "break in" do I need, if any, for new rings and new hone? I need to get out there and set up the jetting, but I'm not sure if I have to baby it for 50 or 100 miles or something first. Mostly I expect that we're talking about setting the main.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 3990
Location: San Diego, CA
Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:34 pm quote
It's not really the first start, but I wanted to share. It sounds so different but is idling strong, fingers crossed that setting up the carb doesn't take much. I've gotten better over the years at visually guessing how much slide to use and guessing jetting that will get it going.
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1557
Location: London UK
Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:41 pm quote
Just don't hold it open for too long and for main jet testing this will be less easy.

The first thing you need to do is get a main jet AC BE combo big enough to splutter at WOT
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 3990
Location: San Diego, CA
Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:19 am quote
120mj no splutter
124 runs better no splutter
128 runs well no splutter
Uh oh will I need the 120ac?
132... splutter!

Back to 128, there might be a bit of splutter, itís going to be this one or 126.

The rest of the range is decent, maybe the be3 would be better than be5, but it needs some seat time.

8CFF6D4B-3CF3-4B29-9133-37EF301AC4A7.jpeg

Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 3990
Location: San Diego, CA
Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:23 am quote
Itís funny because my throttle markings for the pwk are so wrong, wot on the little carb is about 5/8 on my marking . Itís torquey now, but much more like stock. I think it will be well received.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 3990
Location: San Diego, CA
Sat Nov 02, 2019 12:45 pm quote
Voodoo, your clutch plates are working perfectly, thanks so much!
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1557
Location: London UK
Sat Nov 02, 2019 7:25 pm quote
Well that was easy. AC140 MJ128 BE3 all sound like they are correct. Pilot will be either 55/160 or 52/140 and that's that. Quickest custom jetting anyone ever did.

I'll bet it feels slow. Imagine if it was totally stock.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 3990
Location: San Diego, CA
Sat Nov 02, 2019 7:30 pm quote
You know it's OK but you notice the hills a lot more. It reminds me of why I started the tuning adventure . If I swap BE5 for the BE3, do you think the main jet will move much? I'm guessing I'd go up to 132 with BE3 and work down to be sure. But so long as BE5 feels good on one commute, I may just leave it. Pilot is 55/160 and seems good.

I think this was the right move, it will sell now. I've got 2 people asking me to let them know once it is back on the market, one of whom wants to bring a trailer from Long Beach. That's a motivated buyer.
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1557
Location: London UK
Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:03 pm quote
The BE3 will be better. The main jet won't move enough to move from 128. BE5 will make lower rpm feel heavy, will feel ok until you try the BE3, then you will know it was wrong.

AC140 BE3 MJ128 Pilot 55/160 and I assume you have the stock filter on too. This is all good.

Not sure any buyer will believe it is stock after riding it but sure it will sell quickly now.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 3990
Location: San Diego, CA
Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:51 am quote
Thanks Jack! If you can spare a minute, can you tell us how to measure the port height of a slanted roof port? It is the one thing during this thread that is still puzzling me. Iím wondering...
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 3990
Location: San Diego, CA
Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:52 am quote
And yes, stock filter is on.
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1557
Location: London UK
Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:02 pm quote
By slanted roof port you mean the main transfers? I just use a cut down vernier gauge and measure the angled end that opens first.

Back in the 60's when they designed those slanting transfers they thought they were clever. We now know this is garbage but they work and people really like the 200 as a whole.

If you get a chance see how fast it goes on the freeway. You might be surprised.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 3990
Location: San Diego, CA
Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:18 pm quote
Yes, the main transfers. So you are in the portion closest to the bore, to capture the opening instant as closely as possible. I thought thatís what I had done, but both times my numbers havenít quite made sense. Oh well, we will tackle that in my next project!
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 3990
Location: San Diego, CA
Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:35 am quote
Wait a minute, are you saying the transfers aren't parallel to the top of the bore? I didn't try measuring at different points along each transfer (center, right, left). I just re-read your comment and now I'm wondering.

The BE3 was the right move, it feels good.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 3990
Location: San Diego, CA
Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:36 am quote
Here it is, the final product:
https://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/mcy/d/san-diego-1980-vespa-p200/7014127140.html

1980-p200-for-sale-nov-2019_49018991193_o.jpg

Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 3990
Location: San Diego, CA
Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:52 am quote
BTW, I was bummed to find out that in the time since I first posted it, CL has added a $5 listing fee for motorcycles. At least they let it run for 30 days, instead of making me renew every 7.
Hooked
58 VB1T, 81 100 Sport
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 171
Location: Long Beach, CA
Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:08 am quote
Nice work and good luck with sale! This will be a cool scoot for the right person. The reliability of stock, with a little extra kick
Molto Verboso
One or two fun scoots....nothing too precious
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 1216
Location: UK (South East)
Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:24 am quote
John, just noticed that your P200E doesn't have autolube. I like that by the way, but that must be quite unusual for a 1980 P series Vespa in the US?
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 3990
Location: San Diego, CA
Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:34 am quote
Yeah the previous owner welded up the sight glass before repainting, and tossed all the autolube parts. Iím not fussed about premixing, so I never cared.
Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1128
Location: Staten Island, NY
Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:12 pm quote
Really nice looking bike. Hope someone grabs it and appreciates it!
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 3990
Location: San Diego, CA
Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:46 am quote
So am I nuts on my kit pricing at $225? I have had nibbles but still holding... Iíve offered a bundle with the S&S head for $300 but no love.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 3990
Location: San Diego, CA
Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:49 am quote
It seems the 24.24 would be a nice addition after driving it. I can rev it out to 55MPH in 3rd but 4th won't get near those engine speeds. More fuel!!! I will recommend it to any buyers, along with a guess at main jet for it (probably 135 or 138). 4th is more like 6000 RPM instead of 7000. But it accelerates nicely.

eng_spd.png

Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1557
Location: London UK
Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:04 pm quote
Is ok but I thought you would be getting more in 4th. Even on the 20/20. Did you put the ignition timing back up from 16 degrees? Stock 23 degrees is probably too much but 21 will be ok.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 3990
Location: San Diego, CA
Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:41 pm quote
Timing is at 20 degrees. Temps are cool, nothing near 300f. May be room to drop main to 126, I should pull the plug for a look.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 3990
Location: San Diego, CA
Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:50 pm quote
I think 126 is plenty safe, this is 128 for 50 miles or so.

40C00304-9923-460E-BC62-2DFC68F8F3CD.jpeg

Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 3990
Location: San Diego, CA
Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:50 pm quote
You can hear it go rich from 3/4 to wot even if it doesnít splutter.
Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1825

Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:02 pm quote
Dellorto make a 126 main? I thought the only ones they offered in that range were 122-125-128-130? I've been using a 128 in my P200 (set at about between 21 and 22 degrees) and it's a tad rich. No issues for the past 10k miles though.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 3990
Location: San Diego, CA
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:05 pm quote
I have one, I think itís Spaco. I also have 125, 124 as well. Who knows where I bought it though, probably Scooter Mercato or scooter-speed.
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1557
Location: London UK
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:09 pm quote
That plug will drop to 122. CHT will be slower to change on the stock cylinder but should still be up at 300F.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 3990
Location: San Diego, CA
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:20 pm quote
Ok then, Iíve put in 124 for now. The initial trials showed 124 feeling better than 120, so itís likely 124 or 122 is best. Thanks, will report back.
Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1825

Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:11 pm quote
sdjohn wrote:
I have one, I think itís Spaco. I also have 125, 124 as well. Who knows where I bought it though, probably Scooter Mercato or scooter-speed.
A few years back I bought some jets from SIP for my 24/24. They sent me some aftermarket brands jets. The ID on the jets were no where close to what was stamped on the top of them. One of the jets on my order was something like a 132 and it had the same ID as my existing 128. I ended up throwing away about $30 worth of jets that I just bought.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 3990
Location: San Diego, CA
Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:57 pm quote
I think Iíve got lucky, Iíve only had one that clearly was out, it didnít work in between the one above and below. I tossed it.
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1557
Location: London UK
Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:21 pm quote
Going any better with the 124?
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 3990
Location: San Diego, CA
Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:53 am quote
I should do the same 50 miles on Tuesday, will report back.
Hooked
PX 150
Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 325
Location: Dublin, Ohio
Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:16 am quote
sdjohn wrote:
BTW, I was bummed to find out that in the time since I first posted it, CL has added a $5 listing fee for motorcycles. At least they let it run for 30 days, instead of making me renew every 7.
Craigslist has said that they are doing this now in an effort to cut back on the fake listings meant to rip people off. I think it is a really good change because there always are people looking to steal our money.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 3990
Location: San Diego, CA
Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:01 am quote
Yeah $5 isnít bad for a month anyway. I was just surprised.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 3990
Location: San Diego, CA
Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:09 pm quote
It likes 124 much better, there is no flat spot or dull sound when going WOT now and the temps are still very much under control. Now that I've got the idle mix sorted as well, it feels like a properly jetted bike, not just something that's been made safe.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 3990
Location: San Diego, CA
Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:21 pm quote
Look what I found in my glovebox when cleaning it out! This is my original plus the one from voodoo, sorry to steal yours voodoo!

19A88B6B-2CB5-465F-B9B7-2BE2CFA0F75F.jpeg

Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
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Location: seattle/athens
Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:22 pm quote
I KNOW, huh? I find all the best lost stuff in gloveboxes and toolboxes or buckets.
Land of 10,000 Scoots Rally   Vespa Wasp Pin Badges   AF1 Racing Vespa Austin
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