An unintentional project
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Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2058

Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:10 pm quote
I don't know why everone thinks the Allstate is so rare...having a cutdown Smallframe that's aready to accept a largeframe engine, now that's rare! You would probably see 10 GS160's before you ever see a Smallframe with a very large lump of a motor hanging out the right side of the scoot!
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4252
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:33 am quote
No, Allstates are not rare at all. But I guess the handlebar, widebody and GS kinda was, like I said, I have seen any of these in person and so many in one place at the same time.
Member
Joined: 12 Aug 2019
Posts: 39
Location: York, PA
Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:16 am quote
Tierney wrote:
I just went thru the link - $3700 for a repainted Rally, $4100 for a mostly original Rally? Crazy. The one I got is a bit rough, but in person, some of the older models did not look that good at all. And that was the ones that could roll, sort of. There was a dozen or so in the barn that were really jammed up. The only one that I think was worth the price was the GS, other than a missing seat, it looked all there and the body was in fairly good shape, even considering the age of it. By the way, I started feeling bad about this, so I called the owner. He said the sale was cancelled the morning of pick up, so he just put it back in side to be sold later. He also said he is NOT going thru an auction house next time. I told him I could help him sell all the scooters as I know a whole bunch of scooter nuts that would like nothing better than to get them running again.
Ooo, that would be great! I've been looking for a reasonably priced project bike for a while now and they're tough to find. I assumed it was an estate sale or something like that, good to hear the guy is still around.

The auction charged 15% I think on top of the sale price, so that would have actually been $920.
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2058

Fri Nov 01, 2019 5:16 am quote
Tierney wrote:
No, Allstates are not rare at all. But I guess the handlebar, widebody and GS kinda was, like I said, I have seen any of these in person and so many in one place at the same time.
I have a Allstate as well. They are cool scoots. I was trying to make light about your butchered up smallframe. Since it's frowned upon to do something like that, it would make it a very rare scooter.
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4252
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Fri Nov 01, 2019 8:52 am quote
[quote="whodatschrome"]
Tierney wrote:
I have a Allstate as well. They are cool scoots. I was trying to make light about your butchered up smallframe. Since it's frowned upon to do something like that, it would make it a very rare scooter.
Hey man, it's all good , I know what you were saying.🤣 i am passing it on to local scooter dude I have known for awhile. But I think you were right all along, in that it would be better to install a large frame motor. Definitely would be easier. And now I know a guy that might be willing to part with one.
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4252
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:59 am quote
some pics from the auction pick up area:

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Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4252
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Sat Nov 02, 2019 12:02 pm quote
more

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Even some abandoned ones

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And one of several Cushmans

Veni, Vidi, Posti
a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86 and a not so normal pts100 '82
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 5550
Location: Indo
Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:03 am quote
wow ur lucky Brother T, all those scooter is so nice i wish i can grab them all
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4252
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Sun Nov 03, 2019 6:46 am quote
And I wish I could find a way to send you a few. What you do to with your scooters are amazing! You're one of of my heroes on here that keep me going.
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4252
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Wed Nov 06, 2019 4:47 pm quote
So I finally got a chance to work on the scoot a little. I started by trying to remove some of the dodgy paint. I thought it would come off easy and reward me with some of the original silver paint intact. Well, kinda. Acetone did not work, nor did Goo-gone, so then I went onto full paint stripper. It's working ok, but not great, and there is more rust under it than I thought there would be. After an hour of that, I decided to check on the engine somewhat. It is not seized, thankfully, but there is not much resistance either. The engine cowl pin was stuck, so decided to pull the tank to free it up from the inside. Holy cow, some critter built a nest and moved a cubic foot of grass in the cavity. Cleaned it out, tapped the back of the pin, took off cover. Kicked it over again. Hmm, the engine is not turning, maybe a wonky clutch. So I then turn the flywheel by hand, hardly any resistance with the plug installed. I guess I got my work cut out for me.

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Ossessionato
I have a few scooters....
Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 2201
Location: San Antonio, TX
Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:36 am quote
That's a great story. It seems every scooter I've acquired has a story too.
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4252
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:47 pm quote
Killo wrote:
That's a great story. It seems every scooter I've acquired has a story too.
Thanks. It kinda threw me for a loop when one of the guys showed me it was in the auction and was sold. I did not know what to think and was feeling pretty sour about the whole event. But again, when the owner told me he let the bidder back out of the deal they had, things got better. In all honesty, the owner told me he bought it well over 10 years ago and probably did not pay that much for it as it was not running then. So it's a true barn find and I have a lot of work to do on it. I'm hoping I can save enough of the original paint.
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4252
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:26 am quote
I put this in Voodoo's thread, but it bares repeating. Removing paint is a b*tch, and this paint in particular, is a real b*tch. Nothing was working until I found some older bad remover in a pile of stuff in my garage. I'm still hoping to save the original paint. But I am reminded of something Socal said awhile back in that most people don't paint these scoot just for a color change. Rather it is because the paint has worn out, scraped up too much, etc... Maybe I'll get lucky. But I had a lot of good luck getting this scoot, so the bad has to come around eventually.
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4252
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:28 am quote
forgot the pics:

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Bad stuff

Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1364

Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:12 am quote
This project is going to keep you busy , you're going to have forearms like Popeye ( ask Voodoo ).
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4252
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Sat Nov 23, 2019 3:21 pm quote
I finally got some time to check out the Sprint. I mentioned before that the engine is not turning with the kick starter, which I suppose is clutch related. But even turning it by the flywheel, there did not seem to be much compression. I removed the head, and it shows signs of leakage, but nothing big. Then I checked the piston and cylinder walls, these look fine too, no scratches or gouges. While I was in a tear down mood, the carb and box came off. The rotary pad side of the flywheel looks fine and a peak inside, looks and smells like old oil and gas. So tomorrow I'll remove the engine and get it on the bench. I'm not getting any spark to the plug, which may be why it was parked and ignored. I'm also curious about the clutch. I'm also thinking a soft rebuild at the least will be warranted and hopefully pick up a 20/20 carb on the cheap that someone ditched to upgrade to a 24/24. I've already decided to abandon the idea of trying to save the original paint, it is just in too bad of shape where it hasn't pealed off. The wiring, cables, rubber bits, etc... are in lousy shape too, but this scoot is ten years younger than me, so I sorta expected this. It's going to be a fun winter project and should keep me out of trouble for a while. As always, any advice is welcome and appreciated. Thanks for reading.

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Veni, Vidi, Posti
a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86 and a not so normal pts100 '82
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 5550
Location: Indo
Thu Nov 28, 2019 11:24 am quote
seeing the piston isnt stuck i think its just minor thing like fuel line, clean the carb and change the ignition inisde the flywheel.. i sens it gonna be alive soon

good luck andf cheer Brother T
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4252
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Thu Nov 28, 2019 5:15 pm quote
Thanks Ebeth for the encouragement. There is a problem as the kick starter does not turn the engine, and I guess it's with the clutch. So the engine is coming out and get sorted. Some of the wires were chewed up as well. I hope to get back to it soon.
Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1364

Fri Nov 29, 2019 7:56 am quote
With whatever you have to put into it you're still way ahead of many of the other finds others have came across , that is for what you have invested innitially.
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4252
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:02 am quote
Yeah I can understand that Lynnb. What is in short supply in time to do it properly. This scoot sat for a looong period and there is not one part that does not need going thru. I'm going to remove the engine to get an idea what needs doing to that before I move forward on anything else.
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4252
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:16 am quote
I finally got some time to work on the Sprint, so I pulled the engine out yesterday so I can get it on the bench to sort out some problems and get a plan to move forward. The 20/17 carb is totally locked up and may be a waste of time to free up so will be shelved for now as I would really like to install a 20/20 when I refresh the engine. The exhaust is questionably, and I may replace that as well. Meanwhile, the engine needs a good cleaning. There is not that many miles on the scoot, but the oil, clay and road grime is quite thick. Should be a lot of fun to clean up. Tootles.

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bodgemaster
1963 GL, 1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5028
Location: So Cal
Sun Dec 08, 2019 2:35 pm quote
Careful with that taillight!

Addicted
Honda elite
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 738
Location: California
Sun Dec 08, 2019 3:01 pm quote
oh the coveted mickey mouse tail light maybe I did not notice that before but wow wow wow. If it were me the carb and exhaust would be placed into a box not sure for what new better ones for sure. Scooter will be one of the best ones.
Molto Verboso
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 1230
Location: Siam
Sun Dec 08, 2019 4:48 pm quote
Tierney wrote:
some pics from the auction pick up area:
These photos are amazing. It's the ultimate barn find.
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4252
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Mon Dec 16, 2019 5:10 pm quote
Well, I finally got the engine somewhat cleaned up - at least good enough to get on the bench. This was easily the filthiest engine I have ever come across. I was coated with red clay in some places over a quarter inch thick - then I hit the oily mess underneath. But that's ok as it helped to keep it from deteriorating into a crusty, rusty lump. Now the fun begins. The bore and piston look good, but I know the clutch is fubar for sure. A scoot to restore and a heated garage = Happy Days.

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Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1364

Tue Dec 17, 2019 5:53 am quote
Be interesting to see what you find in the engine.
Moderator
P200 PX150
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4028
Location: Hustletown, TX
Tue Dec 17, 2019 9:54 am quote
Such a cool story and find!

Can't wait to see how it turns out.
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4252
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Tue Dec 17, 2019 4:55 pm quote
Got off work an hour early so I started in at the engine - specifically the clutch. I removed the three screws holding the cover on, gave it a tap or two with the soft faced hammer and it exploded out. it looks to me like the circlip came loose. So, I really do not now what happened here, but everything - the corks, steel, bushing, brass washer and plunger, appears to be in great shape. I guess I got lucky. I still plan on doing a soft rebuild - all rubber bits, seals, etc... unless the great hive mind here thinks different.

Last edited by Tierney on Tue Dec 17, 2019 5:09 pm; edited 2 times in total
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4252
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Tue Dec 17, 2019 5:01 pm quote
pics .....

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this is the key I found by the cush, I know it does not go here

Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4252
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Tue Dec 17, 2019 5:15 pm quote
In the last pic, do you guys think this is the correct spacer?
Ossessionato
2015 GTS300, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 4274
Location: San Diego, CA
Tue Dec 17, 2019 7:01 pm quote
Iím voting for full rebuild, no time like the present to know your seals are good.
Molto Verboso
1980 P125X, 1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1540
Location: Staten Island, NY
Tue Dec 17, 2019 7:18 pm quote
Tierney wrote:
In the last pic, do you guys think this is the correct spacer?
I think this might be the parts manual for that engine..
http://scooterhelp.com/manuals/VNB.parts.manual/VNB.manual.r.pdf

If so, then that part is #48834
https://sip-scootershop.com/en/products/washer+clutch+32x158x155+mm+_48334000

Can't entirely tell from your photo but it looks like it has the same bevel on the inner diameter, so I would say it is the correct washer.
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4252
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Tue Dec 17, 2019 7:40 pm quote
Swiss, I just took a look at it and the dimensions are right, but it is flat and square, no bevel. Thanks for your reply
bodgemaster
1963 GL, 1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5028
Location: So Cal
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4252
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Sun Dec 22, 2019 9:04 pm quote
Had a little time to work on the engine. I mentioned before that this was the filthiest engine I ever came across. Good thing is the inside isn't the mess the outside is. The rotary pad is almost primo, the bearings look and feel pretty good, gears and bore, the same. The piston, however is a bit wonky as there is a divot near the piston ring stop, so I'm guessing it's a goner. I'll check the cush drive and cruciform when I get back to it, but as it stands, I may just get away with a soft rebuild and a piston. If I can scrape the coin together, I may look for a bigger bore kit like a Pinasco 177, a 20/20 carb and a newer type exhaust. We'll see. Happy holidays everyone!

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Wonky piston

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mess

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My trusty Sears hand impact

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A little heat, a little tapping works everytime

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a slight scratch

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French bearings

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another shot of the piston

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Done for now

Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4252
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:51 pm quote
A short update. Everything was stripped down off the frame,dents straightened with a hammer and dolly and it was dropped off at my trusty media blaster guy. He is even going to do a little welding for me while it's there. Meanwhile I received a box of goodies from Scooter Mercato - bearings, seals, gaskets, etc...Work finally slowed down some so I took off an extra day on the weekend to do a soft rebuild. The trick I learned from SFVer really came in handy, that is, heating up the case halves to 200 degrees in the oven. The seals and bearings dropped right in, easy peasy. After work today a few wires were replaced in the stater as well as the points and condenser. We have had a mild winter so far and it sure has been pleasant working in the garage on this. Happy days

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needs a clean up

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tatty wires

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new bearing, seals, etc,,,,

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happy engine

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looking better

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wee screw on the points plate rotates to set the gap - never saw this before. cool idea.

Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1364

Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:20 pm quote
Looks nice all clean and shiny. I really hope when you get the frame back from the blaster/welder that you will be doing your own body work .
Veni, Vidi, Posti
'80 P200E, '76 Primavera 125 ET3. '59 Vespa 150
Joined: 30 Apr 2007
Posts: 6897
Location: GT, Texas
Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:42 am quote
Wow! Just now seeing this. What a fantastic story!
Member
2001 Vespa ET4 150
Joined: 18 Dec 2019
Posts: 12
Location: Florida
Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:31 am quote
This is a great thread. I am new to the Vespa, but not to working and restoring vehicles in general. I do enjoy seeing the points and what I assume is the stator on the same wheel. My 1982 Iron Head Sportster has digital points and the stator is on the other side of the engine. I find it easy to get to my "points" under a quick cover. Is it easy to get to the points with this set up and adjust it? Sorry, last time I had points on a vehicle is was on a 1950 MG TD and prior on a 1966 MkX Jag and I had to adjust the points almost every oil change.
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4252
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:14 pm quote
Prof, the points are adjusted thru a window in the flywheel. It's a little finicky, but doable. There are electronic ignitions out there for these models,which have many advantages, but I will most likely stay with the points/condenser set up.
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