Are Italian motorcycles any good?
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eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125/Kymco AK550 I don't care. You can quote me.
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Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:24 am quote
They wouldn't market it like that. They just wouldn't tell anyone.

They never do.

Bill x
Molto Verboso
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Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:30 am quote
... with the internet there are no more secrets ...
"Resistance is futile ..." (The Borg, Star Trek)
Veni, Vidi, Posti
946
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Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:42 pm quote
I really like the various iterations of the new Ducati Scrambler...
Molto Verboso
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Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:40 pm quote
Attila wrote:
... with the internet there are no more secrets ...
"Resistance is futile ..." (The Borg, Star Trek)
Be aware that most members here at MV are scooter aficionados and pay more attention to things than the average buyer. Yes, you can find out anything on the internet IF you care to look. I bet that most buyers don’t dig too hard and wouldn’t know (or really care that much) if the engine was supplied by another manufacturer. Before buying they may research if brand “V” is generally reliable and stop there.
Molto Verboso
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Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:26 pm quote
Vintage1 wrote:
Attila wrote:
... with the internet there are no more secrets ...
"Resistance is futile ..." (The Borg, Star Trek)
Be aware that most members here at MV are scooter aficionados and pay more attention to things than the average buyer. Yes, you can find out anything on the internet IF you care to look. I bet that most buyers don’t dig too hard and wouldn’t know (or really care that much) if the engine was supplied by another manufacturer. Before buying they may research if brand “V” is generally reliable and stop there.
I remind you that without Internet there would be no Modernvespa.com and we would not be here to give suggestions, whatever they are.
It is a "time machine" paradox; cogito ergo sum in website.
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125/Kymco AK550 I don't care. You can quote me.
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Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:30 pm quote
Gap
Like he needs reminding.

Bill x
Molto Verboso
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Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:33 pm quote
I take that as a compliment ... hahaha.
(God! How cold you are ... don't you ever joke?)
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125/Kymco AK550 I don't care. You can quote me.
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Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:09 am quote
Full
I only laugh when something is funny. Rarely out of obligation or embarrassment.

Bill x
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Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:21 am quote
You should spend your holidays in Italy more often ... maybe live here, you would certainly benefit from it.
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125/Kymco AK550 I don't care. You can quote me.
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
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Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:29 am quote
Fact
America is better.

I have friends there.

Bill x
Hooked
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Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:56 am quote
I love Italian bikes. They are very different from Japanese and American bikes, which is a good thing. Years ago I had a Moto Guzzi 850T with a Vesco Rabid Transit fairing, I had a Ducati 907ie, and I currently own my 2005 Ducati Multistrada S. Last year I decided to buy a new Honda CB1100EX, a big air-cooled beast of a standard bike, and I thought I would finally get rid of the Multistrada. After riding the CB1100 and the Multistrada back-to-back, I would never sell the Ducati. Even with its now antiquated 2-valve 1000cc two cylinder air cooled motor, it would absolutely kill the new 1100cc Honda in-line 4 cylinder bike anywhere in the rev range. Sure, adjusting the desmodronic valves is a bit tedious, but I would argue that modern 4 cylinder shim under buckets are worse. And my Ducati is 130 lbs. lighter than my Honda, has full Ohlins suspension and is a torque monster. A lot of folks here would likely love Italian motorcycles. After all, we ride Vespa scooters.
Molto Verboso
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Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:50 am quote
Theoretically not a modern Vespa but I have a vintage model to restore. Why not a Vespa like yours? Some things didn't convince me, a scooter is like a pair of shoes ... if they are not comfortable even if they like them they cannot be bought. I simply wasn't happy with it even if the scooter as an idea is always in my mind. Could I have another Piaggio scooter but not a Vespa scooter? Yes, but other types of choice did not include them in what I was looking for; nothing is taken away from the Vespa, it remains a symbol. Then ... I am of the opinion that some motorcycles and scooters age with dignity but remain good examples in their field.
Molto Verboso
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Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:01 am quote
Attila wrote:
... yes ... you have said a great truth, the owner if habitual conductor lengthens the life of the vehicle but it must be him also a competent person in the use and maintenance. Look at my 1956 MV, I found and repaired it in 1976 but it was built in 1956; still today I own it even though (mea culpa) has been neglected for many years.
There must still be a basic quality otherwise it will break.
Guzzi has had bad times and it is only over a decade that he is producing again with high standards, they have understood that it is possible to produce relatively inexpensive but high quality motorcycles, too bad they only have that kind of engine.
When I was a skilled tradesman in a huge Goodyear tire plant, nearly all the machinists in our department rode Guzzi's. I didn't but found it instructive that they, people who live with precision and machinery intricacies, rode that machine while most everybody else who rode was either still on a Brit bike or had transitioned to a Japanese standard bike, or of course , a HD.

On the Italian Helicopter Co., I took a look at the link at sort of thought my oldest Son flew one of them and ask him-he flew the Leonardo 139 when he flew for PHI out to gulf rigs, a job that ended for him and many others when the oil glut stopped production. Rig crews and bigwigs from energy Co.'s rode out and back and from NOL AP to rigs.
As we speak his rating in that helo has him applying for another international job, back with PHI. PHI has/owns more helicopters than any country in the world, other than USA.
He says the Italian Helo Co is quite corrupt. Whats the Italian version of that opinion?
Molto Verboso
Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956 - Moto Guzzi Airone 250 Sport 1951
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Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:46 am quote
... in what sense "quite corrupt" ..? I do not understand...or maybe yes, if you refer to the buy orders ... in Italy if they talked about it but we have more others serious problems and then i wanted to point out the technological contents, politics i don't care.
If here we start talking about the skeletons in closets of companies from all over the world, we don't come out anymore ...
Hooked
Joined: 11 Mar 2017
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Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:28 am quote
I think Italian bike are as good as any brand. This opinion is base on fact I owned three Moto Guzzi bikes and one Vespa in last four years and never experience any issues. The dealer network may be not as good as HD but I'm in Toronto and authorized dealer is 15km from my place. I really like offering from Moto Guzzi, styling / look is very appealing to me, shaft drive is another reason and last but not least the fact they are building bikes in Italy, the same place they started in 1921, is important factor for me.
Addicted
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Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:44 am quote
Harbinger wrote:
Italians make beautiful things and German engineering is outstanding. In a perfect world a marriage of the two would make one hell of a motorbike.
That marriage didn't work out so well in WW2
Molto Verboso
Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956 - Moto Guzzi Airone 250 Sport 1951
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Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:58 am quote
I eat castagne (chestnuts) now...



Get out of the embers now, it's very cold outside and they are ideal for munching something before dinner; we can say that they are part of the favorite Italian foods, they are a bit like the Vespa ... you may not have it now but you must have owned or tested one in life otherwise you will never be a complete motorcyclist. What I mean is that buying an Italian vehicle is not only good taste but also an act of faith. A kind of tribute to the idea that represents the whole together regardless of how it is used. The rest is superfluous ...
Molto Verboso
Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956 - Moto Guzzi Airone 250 Sport 1951
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
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Location: Latina (Italy)
Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:06 am quote
ryjan wrote:
I think Italian bike are as good as any brand. This opinion is base on fact I owned three Moto Guzzi bikes and one Vespa in last four years and never experience any issues. The dealer network may be not as good as HD but I'm in Toronto and authorized dealer is 15km from my place. I really like offering from Moto Guzzi, styling / look is very appealing to me, shaft drive is another reason and last but not least the fact they are building bikes in Italy, the same place they started in 1921, is important factor for me.
... thank you Ryan, they are very nice words and they touch me; if you knew how many small motorcycle and scooter companies were born and then disappeared in Italy from the late nineteenth century to today you would be amazed but the important thing is that many were supported by the passion of people like you who believed in the substance of which they were and they are made.
Molto Verboso
2018 Vespa GTS 300 ABS- Bianco
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Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:29 am quote
Attila wrote:
... in what sense "quite corrupt" ..? I do not understand...or maybe yes, if you refer to the buy orders ... in Italy if they talked about it but we have more others serious problems and then i wanted to point out the technological contents, politics i don't care.
If here we start talking about the skeletons in closets of companies from all over the world, we don't come out anymore ...
Your asking the wrong guy.
My son was around that brand of helos for quite a few years and it was, as I stated, his comment. He was talking about the company not Italian politics which are not allowed here anyway. Certainly not meant as offensive either. I know zero about them. I do hear lots more about his past several years as a test pilot for a USA MFG and like many companies it leaves you wondering how they remain in business.
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Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:00 pm quote
I would be interested in an MP3 with a Yamaha engine. Not that I have any issues with the one I have, but smoother and a bit more powerful would be welcome.

The current HPE iteration of the engine is the best so far. I have owned the 250, 400 and 500 IE. The 250 was the smoothest, but way underpowered for the MP3. As good as the 500 HPE is, it is still a bit, as our Jess once put it, "agricultural".

I also hope the steering bearings have been improved (I think they have). That was a known weak spot that was tolerated for way too long.

BTW, like Vespa owners who know all along that they wanted only a real Vespa, I have known that I wanted only an MP3 from the first time I saw a video review of one in 2007.
Molto Verboso
Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956 - Moto Guzzi Airone 250 Sport 1951
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Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:19 pm quote
It turns out that the problem of early cyscinetti wear was solved two years ago.
So I read in the Italian magazines dedicated to the sector.
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125/Kymco AK550 I don't care. You can quote me.
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
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Location: South East Great England of Britishland
Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:36 pm quote
Fact
So Nick Saunders - who as far as I know has never owned a Vespa isn't a complete motorcyclist ?

Bill x
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:43 pm quote
Attila wrote:
I eat castagne (chestnuts) now...
Thanks for posting a picture of your nuts Attila. More interesting than some posts in this thread.
Molto Verboso
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Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:42 pm quote
znomit wrote:
Attila wrote:
I eat castagne (chestnuts) now...
Thanks for posting a picture of your nuts Attila. More interesting than some posts in this thread.
Bang.

Done on purpose
Molto Verboso
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Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:44 pm quote
Re: Fact
Bill Dog wrote:
So Nick Saunders - who as far as I know has never owned a Vespa isn't a complete motorcyclist ?

Bill x
Who is Nick Saunders ..?
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125/Kymco AK550 I don't care. You can quote me.
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
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Location: South East Great England of Britishland
Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:48 pm quote
Such
Look him up and tell me he's not a real motorcyclist.

Bill x
Hooked
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Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:33 pm quote
Attila wrote:
I eat castagne (chestnuts) now...



Get out of the embers now, it's very cold outside and they are ideal for munching something before dinner; we can say that they are part of the favorite Italian foods, they are a bit like the Vespa ... you may not have it now but you must have owned or tested one in life otherwise you will never be a complete motorcyclist. What I mean is that buying an Italian vehicle is not only good taste but also an act of faith. A kind of tribute to the idea that represents the whole together regardless of how it is used. The rest is superfluous ...
I've never tried roasted 'castagne', a recipe how to properly cook them will be greatly appreciated. On my recent visit to my local Italian store I saw cases full of castagne's but didn't have balls to pick few and give it a try.
Molto Verboso
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Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:34 pm quote
Regarding the nuts- are Italian chestnuts from the Chinese Chestnut tree?
Our native North American Chestnut is extinct in it's own natural growth zone.
In our eastern Appalachian mountains it was once the dominate species in shear numbers, size and usefulness. It ranged from Maine southward to the north Georgia mountains.
It was said to be a tasty nut by humans and valuable to wildlife, livestock too, as they used the forest to fatten pigs, cattle too back then.
I've never eaten the real ones here but dislike the Chinese version.
There's been a serious effort to crossbreed Chinese trees which are resistant to the blight that eradicated them with remaining North American stock. I had a biology teacher under me in my High School that quit to work on that project. Her Dad is a forester who was the Daniel Boone National Forest supervisor back then.
I have seen American chestnuts in Ireland on estate lands, in gardens the rich guys created that were likely 150 feet tall. In the virgin American forest they often reached heights of near 300 feet.
As a woodworker, I have been tearing down old buildings,houses & barns, to collect the chestnut for reuse. Much of my homes furniture is what we call "wormy chestnut" as the blight involved many worm holes actually quite beautiful and valuable given the scarcity. My dining tables mnade of girts off a tobacco barn with large dia legs from actual chestnut logs drug from deep in the woods. They were trees which managed to survive to reach ~ 6-8" diameter. Other than such very scarce material the only large beams are from salvage barn timbers. My kitchen cabinets, and many other individual pieces are chestnut. One bed has posts from the same small logs pulled out of the woods on foot by a rope.
I have one bunch of the wood which is pre-blight and has no worm holes. It was a former hayloft floor in a very old barn probably 150+ years old when I collected it in the 1970's.
Much of the wood was once gathered via river bottom hook dragging in the Tennessee river system but none now. Also from deep hollows where government rules prohibit digging it from below the soil.
It is exceptionally durable in weather, etc.. My farm land still has many chestnut fence post on the outer lines. Very likelt that Abe Lincoln was splitting chestnut as it splits easily, yet quite strong.
It's all about the nuts? when it's too cold to ride...
Molto Verboso
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Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:10 pm quote
Have you worked with wood too? I was a designer of furniture and furnishings for many years in a large joinery, we were 100 employees and workers. I also programmed CNC machines. Regarding chestnut wood I use it a lot on my farm to support the cables that hold the branches of kiwi plants.
Molto Verboso
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Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:22 pm quote
Re: Such
Bill Dog wrote:
Look him up and tell me he's not a real motorcyclist.

Bill x
You have a tendency to generalize, you have to read between the lines but also to write correctly ... it's not SaUnders but Sanders, how can I understand you then?
Then you can also be the god of the motorcycle but if you have not tried all the two-wheeled vehicles you will never be complete, but to you who tells you that a certain person has not been on a scooter? Internet? In life we ​​do so many things that are not explicitly said ... therefore, we leave the task of making realistic speculations to others.
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125/Kymco AK550 I don't care. You can quote me.
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
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Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:39 pm quote
Sanders, my bad.

I like irony. Don't you ?

Reading your sentences is like trying to run through porridge.

Bill x
Molto Verboso
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Sun Nov 10, 2019 1:55 am quote
.... hahaha, touche '... it's true!
Then you also have your sense of humor. Ah if I could take you with me when I go hunting for vintage motorcycles ...but not the English, I don't like working with inch sizes; I found an Ariel Square Four but it was too mammoth and complex ... I prefer to play with Italian models.
Molto Verboso
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Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:02 am quote
Attila wrote:
Have you worked with wood too? I was a designer of furniture and furnishings for many years in a large joinery, we were 100 employees and workers. I also programmed CNC machines. Regarding chestnut wood I use it a lot on my farm to support the cables that hold the branches of kiwi plants.
Lifetime woodworker here but never was my employment, except for craft shows/sales. My wood interests are broad as I had lots of art training when young yet lived with wood workers. i have carved, lathe work, and cabinets.
Long ago i briefly considered making chairs for a living but reality of having three babies under 3 years old told me to work in a school instead.
I have a shop 100 meters from our house, used for wood and my other interests motorcycles and so on. I have a Woodmizer sawmill, LT15 manual mill, for my own use, not a custom sawyer for others. Currently I'm sawing a bunch of walnut trees I was given for me taking them down.
Following will be a tree called Chestnut Oak, a native common tree here that grows high on ridges in the eastern USA. It is in the White Oak family and good wood, heavy & strong. I have many that have fallen from 100 year rainfalls in recent years. The thin soils fail to support large mature trees. These run about 24-36" diameter and fairly tall as growing in deep woods. The higher grade white oak family trees currently bring nearly $2,000 per 1000BF for whisky barrel staves, bought and made near me in the #2 hardwood place- Morehead, KY.
Enough wood not scooters? I'll get the boo birds stirred up.
Again, is Italian chestnut same tree as Chinese? It grows in stature same as other fruit trees here, no usable trunk whatsoever. It's really common here given many people mostly dead now, planted them as they grew up with our American chestnuts. Another analogy to how big ours got- I was hiking many years ago in the Cades Cove area of our Smokey Mountain National Park and the park people had cut through a huge one blocking a hiking trail and it was thicker than my body was tall, maybe 7 feet diameter.
The area where I mentioned they got chestnuts out of the rivers was Hickory, North Carolina, also called the hardwood lumber capital of the world along with a huge furniture business too. In 1976 I went to a lumber concentration yard to buy chestnut, they had over 10,000 board feet on hand which isn't that much were it a growing species but when it's extinct, quite a lot.
Addicted
Bashan 150, CF Moto Fashion 250
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Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:44 pm quote
Any motorcycle is good if you take care of it and ride it within its limits. There are high mileage Harley's out there.
Molto Verboso
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Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:35 pm quote
kz1000ST wrote:
Any motorcycle is good if you take care of it and ride it within its limits. There are high mileage Harley's out there.
By high mileage we’re talking over 3,000 miles right?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
LX190, Primavera
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Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:19 pm quote
Vintage1 wrote:
kz1000ST wrote:
Any motorcycle is good if you take care of it and ride it within its limits. There are high mileage Harley's out there.
By high mileage we’re talking over 3,000 miles right?
That’s a lot when you can only ride Sunday afternoons when there’s < 0.1% chance of rain.
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Granturismo 218
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Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:18 pm quote
Attila wrote:
ryjan wrote:
I think Italian bike are as good as any brand. This opinion is base on fact I owned three Moto Guzzi bikes and one Vespa in last four years and never experience any issues. The dealer network may be not as good as HD but I'm in Toronto and authorized dealer is 15km from my place. I really like offering from Moto Guzzi, styling / look is very appealing to me, shaft drive is another reason and last but not least the fact they are building bikes in Italy, the same place they started in 1921, is important factor for me.
... thank you Ryan, they are very nice words and they touch me; if you knew how many small motorcycle and scooter companies were born and then disappeared in Italy from the late nineteenth century to today you would be amazed but the important thing is that many were supported by the passion of people like you who believed in the substance of which they were and they are made.
Four bikes in three years, and not one of them blew up. Now, that's a fact. Where do I sign up?
Ride reports like, "I rode it to the store and it never skipped a beat and I got some nachos, but they weren't very hot, so I went back in and made them heat the nachos up more, and after all that time, and me eating the nachos, my brand new bike still started and ran all the way home. It never skipped a beat. It's sitting in my garage and I think it will still start and run, and never skip a beat" isn't information someone looking for a bike to ride around the world will find helpful, unless they like nachos. Take any one of the bikes you ride, and do a long term ride report. Tell us what the ownership experience is like over 50,000 miles.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
LX190, Primavera
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Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:44 pm quote
I reckon if the nachos were really good they would have been ok even if not hot enough. The bike obviously couldn't get to the good nacho place that was a few miles down the road.
Molto Verboso
Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956 - Moto Guzzi Airone 250 Sport 1951
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Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:04 am quote
znomit wrote:
I reckon if the nachos were really good they would have been ok even if not hot enough. The bike obviously couldn't get to the good nacho place that was a few miles down the road.
If you want i send you some kiwifruit of my production ...
Veni, Vidi, Posti
LX190, Primavera
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Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:13 am quote
Attila wrote:
If you want i send you some kiwifruit of my production ...
You can keep your fake double transplanted Chinese Gooseberries, I'll stick with my genuine Zespri™️©.
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