New Floor Install
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Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1205

Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:39 pm quote
I had started looking for info on doing the floor on the 63 vespa and had asked a Mod to switch it over to NSM but nuttin became of that so I'll just start from scratch here. Voodoo already gave me some great guidance and enough to get started. I have a new floor from Sip and will be removing the old floor and putting in the proper pegged rear brake.
Still a Bodge but I've left it sitting in the corner because of the incorrect rear brake it has and it was always in the back of my mind that I would one day fix it so that I would feel better about it.

It's been 35 years since I did any welding and that was stick welding so it will be a while before I weld in the new floor , I have to get use to this new Miller welder first before I do floor welding.

I managed to weld on a couple braces and get the frame strapped in for removing the floor.

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Hooked
1986 T5,
Joined: 30 Oct 2014
Posts: 461
Location: Oak Brook, Illinois
Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:06 pm quote
Whatís wrong with the old floor? Itís not rusty.
Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1205

Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:15 pm quote
Vpfalcon wrote:
Whatís wrong with the old floor? Itís not rusty.
Wrong floor , not a vbb floor. Unless youíre referring to the new floor sitting on the frame?
Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1229
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:22 pm quote
P floor currently right?

Real curious how one removes an old floor and looking forward to watching this whole process! Following along.
Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1205

Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:25 pm quote
swiss1939 wrote:
P floor currently right?

Real curious how one removes an old floor and looking forward to watching this whole process! Following along.
P floor and brake setup.
Molto Verboso
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 1174
Location: Siam
Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:35 pm quote
Why not just leave the old floor panel in, but remove the cross braces. Take the cross braces from the new floor and weld those over the top of the old (perfectly fine) floor.
Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1205

Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:55 pm quote
nomadinsiam wrote:
Why not just leave the old floor panel in, but remove the cross braces. Take the cross braces from the new floor and weld those over the top of the old (perfectly fine) floor.
I need to remove the floor to put a new brake peg and holder for the cable.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7422
Location: seattle/athens
Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:02 pm quote
Translation from Canadian:
He wants to get into the tunnel, see what's up, then have the best correct floor a lot of effort and a little luck can buy.
Close enuff?
Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1205

Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:44 pm quote
V oodoo wrote:
Translation from Canadian:
He wants to get into the tunnel, see what's up, then have the best correct floor a lot of effort and a little luck can buy.
Close enuff?
Ahhh you speak Canuck.
Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1205

Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:36 pm quote
Angle grinder with a cut off blade made quick work of the sides of the floor.

Ok I have to say the people over seas that weld these sure know what they are doing , it took quite a bit to break the welds.

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Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7422
Location: seattle/athens
Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:38 pm quote
Excellent start!

Please be gentle, looks rather helpless and vulnerable like that!

Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1229
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:51 pm quote
Clean up the inside of tunnel with fresh primer to add extra rust protection while it's open!
Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1205

Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:04 pm quote
swiss1939 wrote:
Clean up the inside of tunnel with fresh primer to add extra rust protection while it's open!
I sure will.
Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1205

Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:05 pm quote
V oodoo wrote:
Excellent start!

Please be gentle, looks rather helpless and vulnerable like that!

I 'll be gentle.
Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1205

Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:12 pm quote
I'm going to need a bit of help with measurements when I get the cut off brake pedal peg out of the hole. Going to need to know how much it protrudes out the side of the frame as well as how far in the locking pin hole for the pedal is from the end and the angle for the hole.

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Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1875

Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:54 pm quote
Yeesh!...i'd be inclined to remove all of the paint from the scooter, then get the whole thing dipped (acid) to get rid of all that rust that you can't get to. Who knows what's under all that filler.

It also looks like Grandma's blanket also got a few burn holes in it with the new welder!
Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1205

Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:14 pm quote
whodatschrome wrote:
Yeesh!...i'd be inclined to remove all of the paint from the scooter, then get the whole thing dipped (acid) to get rid of all that rust that you can't get to. Who knows what's under all that filler.

It also looks like Grandma's blanket also got a few burn holes in it with the new welder!
Already been stripped down , bead blasting , inspected, primed and painted once. Still have alot of cleanup to do.
Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1205

Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:21 pm quote
Gotta ask , is this typical of a vbb floor to fit raised like this ? Is it supposed to be pressed down perhaps once the rear is fastened down? Makes me wonder if Sip sent me the correct floor that I ordered.

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Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 1653
Location: Veria, Greece
Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:45 pm quote
Your new floor looks shorter. I would contact SIP just to be sure. Is there a chance that with the bodge job they did on the floor , they also elongated the frame / tunnel??

Seeing your first photo, I would also cut along the neck and change the double sheet that's there. It looks like you have a lot of underlying rust there, pretty typical on old vespas. Following photos, a repair I did on a full restoration of a P200. Frame was solid and the only problematic area was there because it gets wet from the front wheel...

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Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1229
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:48 pm quote
Are you sure the back half of frame is vbb aside from floor? Maybe the bodge was also the frame not just floor?
Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1205

Sun Nov 10, 2019 1:37 pm quote
swiss1939 wrote:
Are you sure the back half of frame is vbb aside from floor? Maybe the bodge was also the frame not just floor?
Absolutely sure , no welds showed otherwise anyway.
Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1205

Sun Nov 10, 2019 1:51 pm quote
SaFiS thanks for the reply and your photos. I've still got somemore cutting to do up front , I wasn't sure where the butt joint was going to be so I cut the old floor short of the target. Still have more investigative surgery to do there. As for the new floor Sip actually sells a couple versions of the floor , mine is the shorter one . As far as I know the frame hasn't been elongated, Jeeez I sure hope not, didn't see any obvious signs. I can contact Sip but they are absolutely brutal for responding.

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Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1205

Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:18 pm quote
Here's somemore info on the floor.

floor info.png

Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7422
Location: seattle/athens
Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:50 pm quote
reference
I think you need a solid dimension between known points now. Let's see what happens when you check here. I think it's about 4" on my Super where I can measure easily, but will verify on a '62 VNB and a '58 VBA and see if they are in the same ballbark while you see what you have there. I think you need to fit it well at the BACK first, square it up good and figure best place for the front joint when you have that done. You will likely want to trim off some of the front of the new floor to avoid cutting off more original legshield than you want or need to,.

When I made the bolt on floor for my old trashed floor Sprint, I had to set that rear vertical flange that the cables go thru in snug first, then get the front curve matched to the bike.



ref.jpg
measure your motor mount hole center to back side of first reinforcing rib

Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1205

Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:00 pm quote
Thanks Voodoo I need all the help I can get on this.
Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1205

Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:19 pm quote
22" from brake peg to motor mount hole , did one from back of floor frame to tail on rear fender . I wish I had someone to hold measuring tape so I could get a full photo end to end.

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Molto Verboso
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 1174
Location: Siam
Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:28 pm quote
Lynnb wrote:
nomadinsiam wrote:
Why not just leave the old floor panel in, but remove the cross braces. Take the cross braces from the new floor and weld those over the top of the old (perfectly fine) floor.
I need to remove the floor to put a new brake peg and holder for the cable.
Oh, yeah, that's right. I forgot about that. Just don't weld the new floor in first. That's something I'd do, and start cursing and crying.😂🥊
Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1205

Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:49 pm quote
nomadinsiam wrote:
Lynnb wrote:
nomadinsiam wrote:
Why not just leave the old floor panel in, but remove the cross braces. Take the cross braces from the new floor and weld those over the top of the old (perfectly fine) floor.
I need to remove the floor to put a new brake peg and holder for the cable.
Oh, yeah, that's right. I forgot about that. Just don't weld the new floor in first. That's something I'd do, and start cursing and crying.😂🥊
Haha way ahead of you, keep holding myself back.
Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1205

Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:54 pm quote
I like to get one obstacle a day out of the way. Peg is out and new is ready once someone gives me the proper dimensions for the peg stickout

Made short work of the peg with this bit on the air tool.

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Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1205

Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:00 pm quote
SaFiS wrote:
Your new floor looks shorter. I would contact SIP just to be sure. Is there a chance that with the bodge job they did on the floor , they also elongated the frame / tunnel??

Seeing your first photo, I would also cut along the neck and change the double sheet that's there. It looks like you have a lot of underlying rust there, pretty typical on old vespas. Following photos, a repair I did on a full restoration of a P200. Frame was solid and the only problematic area was there because it gets wet from the front wheel...
Nice job on the fitment and welding. Did you use a Mig to weld it in place? Size of wire , settings which welder? I'm new to the Mig welding and need alot of practice.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7422
Location: seattle/athens
Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:26 pm quote

Nope, my crude drawing has maybe fooled you, but these pics show you that I was talking about the vertical edge of the first reinforcing rib. It's well above the mount hole, so you just have to do the best you can. That back flange is sloped & not the best place to measure against.

IMG_20191110_171040814.jpg
you can see the slope of the back flange that laps the frame here

IMG_20191110_171131821_HDR.jpg
from directly overhead, looks more like 4 1/8"

Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1205

Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:36 pm quote
Thanks Voodoo Iím going to see if I can get the new floor flap sloped a bit more to match the frame. Weíll just have to make it work.
Now can you give me the peg length from the frame so I can cut it to proper length, also if we can figure out the angle of the peg hole for the brake pedal pin. One step at a time.
Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1875

Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:50 pm quote
Lynnb wrote:
SaFiS wrote:
Your new floor looks shorter. I would contact SIP just to be sure. Is there a chance that with the bodge job they did on the floor , they also elongated the frame / tunnel??

Seeing your first photo, I would also cut along the neck and change the double sheet that's there. It looks like you have a lot of underlying rust there, pretty typical on old vespas. Following photos, a repair I did on a full restoration of a P200. Frame was solid and the only problematic area was there because it gets wet from the front wheel...
Nice job on the fitment and welding. Did you use a Mig to weld it in place? Size of wire , settings which welder? I'm new to the Mig welding and need alot of practice.
I'm going to butt in on the welder...

Every welder is going to have different settings. I see that it's a Miller? Hopefully you're set up for using solid wire and not that silly innershield monkey business stuff. It costs more, but is 100x's worth it. 030 wire is what i usually use in my 'lil Lincoln 110 welder. .030 is kinda too big for lots of the sheetmetal on the scooters. You might try .023?..you will probably have less burn thoughs. Usually welders are set up to use either .023 and .030. You just have to flip the drive roller around to get it set up. I run .045 solid wire on my big 220v Esab for zapping anything thicker than 3/16".

Oh, and weld outside if you can, or have REALLY good ventilation! The fumes are bad, bad, bad.
Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1205

Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:12 pm quote
whodatschrome wrote:
Lynnb wrote:
SaFiS wrote:
Your new floor looks shorter. I would contact SIP just to be sure. Is there a chance that with the bodge job they did on the floor , they also elongated the frame / tunnel??

Seeing your first photo, I would also cut along the neck and change the double sheet that's there. It looks like you have a lot of underlying rust there, pretty typical on old vespas. Following photos, a repair I did on a full restoration of a P200. Frame was solid and the only problematic area was there because it gets wet from the front wheel...
Nice job on the fitment and welding. Did you use a Mig to weld it in place? Size of wire , settings which welder? I'm new to the Mig welding and need alot of practice.
I'm going to butt in on the welder...

Every welder is going to have different settings. I see that it's a Miller? Hopefully you're set up for using solid wire and not that silly innershield monkey business stuff. It costs more, but is 100x's worth it. 030 wire is what i usually use in my 'lil Lincoln 110 welder. .030 is kinda too big for lots of the sheetmetal on the scooters. You might try .023?..you will probably have less burn thoughs. Usually welders are set up to use either .023 and .030. You just have to flip the drive roller around to get it set up. I run .045 solid wire on my big 220v Esab for zapping anything thicker than 3/16".

Oh, and weld outside if you can, or have REALLY good ventilation! The fumes are bad, bad, bad.
I never count it as butting in, all info is appreciated. Yes its a Miller 211 running on 220, right now I'm running with .023 solid and gas mix. My son dropped me off a good sized piece of body metal I'll be practicing the butt welds and plug welds on. My son is an HVAC guy and said this week he will be getting me a furnace fan and we'll be setting up proper ventilation as well I use a 3M respirator.
Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1205

Mon Nov 11, 2019 2:12 pm quote
Can someone with with a VBB2T or if they are the same similar model please do some measurements A to B and distance the peg protrudes from the frame C?

nov 11 distance.jpg

Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7422
Location: seattle/athens
Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:46 pm quote
This should help and I will go get those dimensions for you from similar bikes. I would set the retaining pin angle more like the first pic to make removal MUCH easier.
tips n trix p6 wrote:
V oodoo wrote:
If you've ever had to fight this battle or if it's in your future, I know you'll appreciate this one. Now you can see what you can't see when you need to.
Ginch wrote:
I have two Super frames and they each have a slightly different angle on that pin. So I would try to work out which angle is going to be easiest to remove the pin from. From memory I think the pedal has to be pushed fully down to get access to the pin... have a look at the pedal itself to confirm.

Hope these pictures are of some help.





The angle on this one is about 10-15 degrees off that seam line, where the other one is more like 30ish.


On some bikes you may need to remove a piece of floor trim to push pedal down enuff get good access to that pin or at least pull the rubber strip out.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7422
Location: seattle/athens
Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:03 pm quote


A is about 1 1/2", B about 6" and C is 2". The tube sticks out about 1 3/4" from the frame. About the same on all 3 older bikes, the Super, a Sprint and a VBA.
Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1205

Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:37 pm quote
Perfect , thanks Voodoo I can cut the hole for the brake housing now.
Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1205

Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:26 pm quote
Is this the way the brake pedal pin goes?

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Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1205

Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:14 pm quote
Moving ahead slowly, I got the housing for the rear brake line cut in ( rough ) , not exactly sure on the angle yet. This is all Voodoo's ideas.

Contacted Sip about the floor sitting funny and they first asked for pics then they asked to verify it is a VBB2 and not a VBB1 which I sent them a pic of the serial number on the frame and told them the item actally says it fits both.
I had ordered a new set of floor rails from Scootermerc and tried them on with new floor in place and if I pressed down on the floor the rail fit perfect going up the leg shield. I will wait and see what their technical department says before going further.

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