Going green
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Style Maven
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa PK50XL2 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7799
Location: seattle/athens
Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:27 pm quote
We are classed as dirty motored vehicle owners, and justifiably I suppose. But mostly it's ignored as a necessary evil and there aren't very many of us compared to all those empty but for the driver cars we see running all around us. But these days, those bigger cars are getting a LOT greener than we are. Most of us can get better mileage in our cars today than on our old Vespas.

But the future is coming and some is here now: new regulations and cities we can't even ride in... So let's discuss what we CAN do and I know it will be not much. But at least SOMETHING times all of us that do what we can could help and we all need to do our share.



1) Cutting down on the pollution a 2T emits? Are there tuning or component changes that can "clean up" the smoke 10% or even more. I don't know, but I could lose some power to burn cleaner and not feel hurt. Running temperature to shoot for matter here, like in a car? I know ppl rejet & swap muffs on newer bikes to get that "old" power back.

2) Improving gas mileage? Again how to tune and tips on how to drive to get the HIGHEST average MPG , what should I do? Motor being newer or fresher w/ all the internals all snugger and less leakage, a big difference here?

3) The elephant in the room, or should I say cat? If I fish my cat muff out of the trash, what difference will it make? How much cleaner is my smoke and what % of my power is now gone?

It's not like any gov't bureau is gonna change any rules if 10% of all scooterists worked on improvements and each wound up w/ about 10% improvement let's say, but I just wanna know which way to start leaning for when gas hits $50 a quart 50 years from now and I wear an oxygen tank to go outside.
Hooked
lml 2t 150, Peugeot Django 125, Vespa TE4 50cc and a Xinling rat scooter 70cc
Joined: 21 Jan 2018
Posts: 247
Location: Wales
Wed Nov 27, 2019 5:13 pm quote
Here in the U.K. I have a LML 125 2t same as the Genuine Stella 150 2t. It had been de restricted when I got it and most likely did 5mph more. I mucked about with going upto 150 re jetting etc but always hand hovering over the clutch lever waiting for that partial seize (happened twice).
Then the autolube played up and would smoke when left standing for a few days fixed it same happened again. I like to ride more in my old age than fixing it. ( hard work getting off hands and knees).
So I pulled out the Haynes manual put all emissions gubbings back on but left it as 150 re jetted accordingly and converted to pre mix and changed main jet to compensate. Runs really well quieter no smoke better fuel economy and about the same power out as a de restricted 125 without all the hassle of tuning and worry of seizure. So I happy if VOSA want to pull me over for emission test and when they start bringing them in on the yearly mot which will be sooner or later. My 2019 Euro 4 emissions compliant Peugeot Django 125 4t with all the gubbings on and fuel injection can pull 70mph on occasions and is happy at 55-65mph so that's faster than all 4t scooters I have de restricted and I can put a 150 barrel on and the bike re sets itself to the new barrel after a short spin ( ecu and fuel injector ) so in some respects engine designers and the pointy heads have come up with some good stuff.
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2543

Wed Nov 27, 2019 5:31 pm quote
Ironically enough, my PX215 (with cut crank, extra porting, 30mil carb, Sito+) is getting better fuel economy (about 55mpg) than my stock PX200 (24/24 carb and Sito+) when cruising at 55/60mph. The engine just doesn’t have to work as hard to go the same speed. I just removed the 30mil to a 25mil dellorto to see if I can get better fuel (without loosing too much HP).

The ‘05 PX150 came with a “catalytic converter” of sorts on the stock exhaust. I can just see it now- people will soon be searching for NOS PX cat exhausts for their tuned scoots! That being said, I wonder if that “cat” tube that was welded on the stock exhaust could be cut off and installed onto a performance type exhaust, while still make a good power curve?
Hooked
lml 2t 150, Peugeot Django 125, Vespa TE4 50cc and a Xinling rat scooter 70cc
Joined: 21 Jan 2018
Posts: 247
Location: Wales
Wed Nov 27, 2019 5:38 pm quote
whodatschrome wrote:
The ‘05 PX150 came with a “catalytic converter” of sorts on the stock exhaust. I can just see it now- people will soon be searching for NOS PX cat exhausts for their tuned scoots! That being said, I wonder if that “cat” tube that was welded on the stock exhaust could be cut off and installed onto a performance type exhaust, while still make a good power curve?
That's exactly what I hunted out for was a exhaust system with cat and got one on ebay with the secondary air system on I think its called for about £15 for a late px as no one wanted it 😊
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 7706
Location: Victoria, Australia
Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:17 pm quote
It's easy enough to at least appear to run cleaner, by using synthetic or semi, and making sure you're not over supplying the oil. Visible smoke is one thing that will make people vote for stricter pollution restrictions.
I love the smell of two stroke but you do see people from time to time holding their noses as a group of scooters goes past.
Hooked
1952 Allstate 1955 Allstate 1958 lambretta 1965 Allstate 1968 sprint
Joined: 20 Jul 2017
Posts: 476
Location: Central california
Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:40 pm quote
Going green
Well here in California they’re trying to figure out how to run DEF fluid through our two strokes. Lol
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4387
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Thu Nov 28, 2019 5:08 am quote
Run the best synthetic oil emitting the least amount of detectable fumes. That's all I got. If the hammer does come down, and we want to still ride, we'll all be installing electric motors in these scoots and the engines will be on the shelf.
Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1919

Thu Nov 28, 2019 10:58 am quote
With the Topic heading Going Green, my first thought was oh oh he's painting the scooter green now.

From what I've read, its all about using best Synthetic oil.
Hooked
Joined: 29 Oct 2019
Posts: 131
Location: Bakersfield
Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:23 am quote
just came across this at the store the other day
anyone try it? I have used the regular redline two stroke oil in my lambretta before but never the no smoke version.

redline.jpg

Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2543

Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:19 am quote
Pour a few ounces of Pine-Sol in the tank. That way your exhaust "will smell like a pine forest". The both EPA and CARB will automatically associate the scooters as "green". Problem solved.
Addicted
2006 GT200L "Lone Star"-Sold, 2006 Yamaha Majesty YP400
Joined: 15 Jan 2019
Posts: 637
Location: Texas
Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:57 pm quote
I always liked Bel-Ray Si-7 full synthetic in my two strokes (Suzuki and Yamaha). Near smokeless, no coking or buildup in the cylinder or exhaust.
Ossessionato
LXV 150 3v ie. Midnight Blue (Sold)
Joined: 06 Dec 2010
Posts: 3380
Location: Bangkok
Fri Dec 13, 2019 5:31 pm quote
whodatschrome wrote:
Pour a few ounces of Pine-Sol in the tank. That way your exhaust "will smell like a pine forest". The both EPA and CARB will automatically associate the scooters as "green". Problem solved.
Same but use insecticide that will get rid of pesky mosquitoes.
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2543

Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:38 pm quote
waspmike wrote:
whodatschrome wrote:
Pour a few ounces of Pine-Sol in the tank. That way your exhaust "will smell like a pine forest". The both EPA and CARB will automatically associate the scooters as "green". Problem solved.
Same but use insecticide that will get rid of pesky mosquitoes.
Funny that you should mention that...back when i was about 12 years old i had a Kawasaki 200 3-wheeler. I was always scrounging around for gas to put in it. I went down to my uncle's garage and found what i thought was a bunch of gasoline in some clear plastic 2.5 gallon jugs. So i dumped in about 2 gallons into the 3-wheelers fuel tank. I started it up and it ran just fine...then about 30 seconds later white smoke started to billow out of the exhuast pipe in biblical perportions. It was so bad that i actually jumped off the 3-wheeler while it was still running. Pretty soon the smoke got so bad that i couldn't see the 3-wheeler anymore...or the whole side of our house! I ended up running away from the whole scene. I hid out in my dad's shop until the 3-wheeler died about 10 minutes later. Turns out what i put in the tank was VELPAR. It's a highly flammable herbacide (25% Hexazinone, 42.5% Ethanol, and xx% of whatever else)! Needless to say that we didn't have any weeds growing in that parts of the yard and orchard for quite some time!
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2543

Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:41 pm quote
25BIKEZ wrote:
I always liked Bel-Ray Si-7 full synthetic in my two strokes (Suzuki and Yamaha). Near smokeless, no coking or buildup in the cylinder or exhaust.
What year and models were the Suzuki and Yamahauler? They might be way lots more efficient than our old Vespas?...hence less smoke.
Hooked
1974 Vespa 125 Primavera, 1980 Bajaj Chetak, 1962 Lambretta 175TV3, 2006 Yamaha Vino
Joined: 07 Jul 2017
Posts: 496
Location: Boston, MA
Mon Dec 16, 2019 5:49 am quote
Re: Going green
V oodoo wrote:
Most of us can get better mileage in our cars today than on our old Vespas.
The majority of people still do not own hybrid or electric vehicles, and unless you own a 100% electric vehicle like a Tesla, you're probably still not getting much better mileage than you do on a vintage bike! I don't know what kind of mileage you're getting, but I get 60 mpg on my smallframe, around 80 mpg on my Bajaj, and I've been informed I should be able to get about 100 mpg on my Lambretta.

For reference, the Toyota Prius gets 58 mpg in the city and 53 mpg on the highway.
Addicted
2006 GT200L "Lone Star"-Sold, 2006 Yamaha Majesty YP400
Joined: 15 Jan 2019
Posts: 637
Location: Texas
Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:17 am quote
whodatschrome wrote:
25BIKEZ wrote:
I always liked Bel-Ray Si-7 full synthetic in my two strokes (Suzuki and Yamaha). Near smokeless, no coking or buildup in the cylinder or exhaust.
What year and models were the Suzuki and Yamahauler? They might be way lots more efficient than our old Vespas?...hence less smoke.
Most recently, two stroke wise, I rehabbed a 1976 GT500 (formerly Titan) twin.

IMG_0177.jpeg

Moderator
P200 PX150
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4279
Location: Hustletown, TX
Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:04 am quote
It's a good topic actually...

Wonder if there is any data on the synthetics and how much cleaner they burn?

I have been running straight gas (no ethanol) for about a year. I did so to prevent weird deposits in the carb and tank, and I assume the engine. No idea if this is better or worse for the environment, but the scoot seems to run better sans corn.

I'm sure many will think its silly... But I try to be conscious and offest my impact some. I have a manual mower, try and ride my bicycle when I can and car pool and rideshare as much as possible. The only benefit is probably imagined, but I figure trying to do a wee bit, is certainly better than burying my grape in the sand.

I would look at mods to the scoot, but aside from spitballs like the CAT have never seen any.
Style Maven
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa PK50XL2 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7799
Location: seattle/athens
Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:33 pm quote
I already use good synthetic, but these thing get kinds shite GAS MILEAGE, so there is that to consider as well.

What if I put on a 20/15?

Any appreciable mileage improvement coz more efficient at lower RPM's maybe?

I feel so guilty knowing I burn more gas per mile than wifey in her cute newer car. Like I should take her car to "do my share" and not ride that damn fun smokey gas guzzler scoot.
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4387
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:51 pm quote
These scoots are no where near as smoky as the old 2 strokes were - Kawasaki triples, Yammy rds, Suzuki's big twins. It about killed you to ride behind one with their piston-ported engine burning thru oil by the gallon. I thick we contribute less to air quality pollution than any weekend bbq-er coaxing the fire-up with quick start fuel.
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4387
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:52 pm quote
And a lot of those old diesel engines ain't doing the world any good either.
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4387
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:52 pm quote
And a lot of those old diesel engines ain't doing the world any good either.
Addicted
2006 GT200L "Lone Star"-Sold, 2006 Yamaha Majesty YP400
Joined: 15 Jan 2019
Posts: 637
Location: Texas
Mon Dec 16, 2019 5:07 pm quote
Tierney wrote:
These scoots are no where near as smoky as the old 2 strokes were - Kawasaki triples, Yammy rds, Suzuki's big twins. It about killed you to ride behind one with their piston-ported engine burning thru oil by the gallon. I thick we contribute less to air quality pollution than any weekend bbq-er coaxing the fire-up with quick start fuel.
Actually, my GT750s got about 1500 miles to the quart. My GT500 and RD400s typically got 1000 miles to the quart. Properly adjusted, their metering pumps were very thrifty.

Much better than my '73 Vega, in any case...
Hooked
2001 LML 150 2t
Joined: 16 Jul 2017
Posts: 360
Location: Queensland, Aus
Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:39 am quote
I'm not sure if visible 'smoke' necessarily equates to toxic. I'll guess and say there's more to it than that.

It makes me wonder if burnt castor oil is safe even though it's smoky? One the other hand, just because a fully synthetic oil burns almost without visible particles, should we assume it's safe?

So many questions....
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