GT200 no spark after short run
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Member
GT-200 2006
Joined: 27 Nov 2019
Posts: 9
Location: Santa Barbara CA
Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:23 pm quote
I have a 2006 GT200 that runs great. My problem is that if I take a short run to the store 1-2 miles, When I return to start it, the lights all work, starter engages, but there is no spark. I have changed out, the plug, plug wire, coil, CDI, and have a new battery. I also disabled the kill switch.Nothing helps. If I wait, it starts great and will run for hours without so much as a hesitation. It doesn't have to reach normal operating temp to have the issue. I keep a spare plug with me and hook it to the spark wire to test for spark.
The issue only affects starting - not the running of the scooter.

Any ideas?

Thanks,

Lee
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 38620
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:44 pm quote
The only thing you've not specifically mentioned is the plug cap itself. These are notorious for intermittent spark when they're a few years old, and this could easily be heat sensitive.

Apart from that, you've covered all the possibilities that I can think of, at least at first glance.
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Granturismo 218
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Posts: 6150
Location: NWAOK
Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:39 pm quote
My guess would be stator or voltage regulator, mainly because that's about all that's left.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2012 Honda NC700 DCT
Joined: 02 Mar 2013
Posts: 6021
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:07 pm quote
How about a ground wire not hooked up?
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 38620
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:13 pm quote
Madison Sully wrote:
How about a ground wire not hooked up?
The symptoms are either heat related (most probable) or time related. I can ..just.. about imagine a ground connection being heat related - but not time related.

Of course, there's always the possibility that the new CDI has the same fault. New != Tested and working.
Member
GT-200 2006
Joined: 27 Nov 2019
Posts: 9
Location: Santa Barbara CA
Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:16 pm quote
My ground is solid and I just ordered a new plug cap. If the stator were bad would the bike run smoothly? Whatever this is, it ONLY affects starting when the bike is not cold, and has no effect on its running when it is going. It ALWAYS starts from a cold start.

Thanks,

Lee
Ossessionato
2014 Commuter BV350(44,000)/2015 Scoot Life BV350(10,000)/2010 El Diablito SH150i(29,000)
Joined: 27 Dec 2013
Posts: 2435
Location: Orange Park Florida
Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:53 pm quote
I once had a Pontiac that had a bad choke. I had to free the choke plate when I tried to start the car under the same conditions you stated. It wouldn't start when it was warm until I freed the plate.

Edit. I don't have experience with the GT200. Does it have an electronic choke?
Member
GT-200 2006
Joined: 27 Nov 2019
Posts: 9
Location: Santa Barbara CA
Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:20 pm quote
The fuel is being delivered fine. It just has no spark until it cools enough. This same, seemingly heat related issue, does not however affect the running of the scooter no matter how long the ride. Only the warm starting.
Hooked
2003 ET2 (SOLD); 2004 GT200
Joined: 22 Oct 2016
Posts: 366
Location: Atlanta, GA
Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:35 am quote
FWIW my GT200 seems to take a little more effort to start when hot. It's never failed to fire up so I never went hunting for the issue but it would not surprise me if I found myself in your shoes eventually. Please keep us updated.
Ossessionato
BV350, Primavera 150, Yamaha Zuma 125
Joined: 06 Jun 2013
Posts: 3113
Location: The Twin Cities of Minneapolis/Saint Paul, Minnesota
Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:08 am quote
Are you sure there's no spark, or does it just not start when the engine is warm?

Have the valves been adjusted? This wouldn't be related to anything electrical including spark, but it could cause hard starting.
Ossessionato
73 Rally, 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 65 Li225 Silver Special, 86,95,96 Elite 80s, 2015 HD Road Glide Special, 2011 Ural Tourist
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
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Location: Oceanside/ SF
Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:17 pm quote
Iíve had experience on the vintage scooters with similar difficult/no starting when hot but no problems with cold starts. Those were always indicative of a failing CDI. Itís definitely not a common thing.
Member
GT-200 2006
Joined: 27 Nov 2019
Posts: 9
Location: Santa Barbara CA
Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:30 pm quote
I keep a spare plug with me in the scooter. If it fails to start I connect the spare plug to the spark plug wire, ground it to the engine and crank. Thereís no spark. Once, while doing this test, it began with no spark and then suddenly went to spark. I reconnected the spark plug wire it off I went.
Member
GT-200 2006
Joined: 27 Nov 2019
Posts: 9
Location: Santa Barbara CA
Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:31 pm quote
I probably tested it during a failure 10 times. Every time I tested it with a spare plug there was no spark.
Member
GT-200 2006
Joined: 27 Nov 2019
Posts: 9
Location: Santa Barbara CA
Sun Dec 08, 2019 3:19 pm quote
just put on a new plug cap and checked the ground. All tight and good. Took it for a test and failure again. Very discouraging. Anyone know the symptoms of a bad stator or voltage regulator?

Lee
Ossessionato
73 Rally, 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 65 Li225 Silver Special, 86,95,96 Elite 80s, 2015 HD Road Glide Special, 2011 Ural Tourist
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 3616
Location: Oceanside/ SF
Sun Dec 08, 2019 6:05 pm quote
Stators are broken into the ignition and the lighting coils. You could have problems with one but not the other. Get a workshop manual and follow the tests with a multi meter.

With electrical stuff thereís no way to easily disassemble its so try the tests or just start throwing money at it and swap electrical parts.

Sorry it canít be something easy but itís what it is
Member
GT-200 2006
Joined: 27 Nov 2019
Posts: 9
Location: Santa Barbara CA
Sun Dec 08, 2019 9:57 pm quote
Thanks. I have swapped out plug, wire, cap, CDI, coil. No spark when I try and start when warm. Once itís cool - it runs fantastically without any hesitation or issue.
Ossessionato
2015 GTS300, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 4426
Location: San Diego, CA
Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:37 am quote
Flywheel magnetism?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350, 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 8542
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:28 am quote
sdjohn wrote:
Flywheel magnetism?
Hum, just googled this, might be the issue.

"Heat affects the magnets because it confuses and misaligns the magnetic domains, causing magnetism to decrease. On the contrary, when the same magnet is exposed to low temperatures, its magnetic property improves and strength increases. ... Different magnetic materials react differently with temperature."
Ossessionato
2015 GTS300, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 4426
Location: San Diego, CA
Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:39 am quote
the typical test on the vintage side per scooterwest is a 17mm wrench has to hang from each magnet on the flywheel. I assume that can carry over to a modern as well. if it is weak, they can remag it.
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 38620
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:47 am quote
I'd be more inclined to believe a temperature sensitive 'window' in the pick-up coil's connections. I've seen similar in other coil situations, unrelated to motor vehicles.
Ossessionato
2015 GTS300, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 4426
Location: San Diego, CA
Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:23 am quote
Pickup is another great candidate for this issue, for sure
Member
GT-200 2006
Joined: 27 Nov 2019
Posts: 9
Location: Santa Barbara CA
Sun Mar 29, 2020 7:33 am quote
The strangest thing about this is it only affects starting. I can run the scooter for two hours straight with out any issue. Wouldnít the magnet pick up issue take affect all the time and not just starting?

Thanks for your help
Ossessionato
BV350, Primavera 150, Yamaha Zuma 125
Joined: 06 Jun 2013
Posts: 3113
Location: The Twin Cities of Minneapolis/Saint Paul, Minnesota
Sun Mar 29, 2020 8:10 am quote
Does a 200 have an ECU? Is there some heat-related input to the ECU that could deactivate spark? Just a SWAG.
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 38620
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Sun Mar 29, 2020 8:23 am quote
JKJ-FZ6 wrote:
Does a 200 have an ECU? Is there some heat-related input to the ECU that could deactivate spark? Just a SWAG.
It has a regulator/CDI. Yes, it could be in that, too, as well as the main spark coil.

https://manuals.wotmeworry.org.uk/Vespa/GT125%20GT200%20Euro2/GT125%20GT200%20Wiring%20Diagram.pdf
Ossessionato
BV350, Primavera 150, Yamaha Zuma 125
Joined: 06 Jun 2013
Posts: 3113
Location: The Twin Cities of Minneapolis/Saint Paul, Minnesota
Sun Mar 29, 2020 8:26 am quote
jimc wrote:
JKJ-FZ6 wrote:
Does a 200 have an ECU? Is there some heat-related input to the ECU that could deactivate spark? Just a SWAG.
It has a regulator/CDI. Yes, it could be in that, too, as well as the main spark coil.

https://manuals.wotmeworry.org.uk/Vespa/GT125%20GT200%20Euro2/GT125%20GT200%20Wiring%20Diagram.pdf
Something like a rev limiter that's kicking in at the wrong time because of a short or open fault between the starting and CDI circuits?
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 7739
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Sun Mar 29, 2020 4:56 pm quote
i'd suspect something in the stator, either the ignitor coil or the pick up. seeing as that you've swapped out everything down line of that (coil, cap, plug, wire).

out of curiosity, what plug are you running?

secondary question, when you get no spark on restart does the LED display a flash code?

this may be something as simple as a component of the immobilizer taking heat soak after stopping or possibly a ground not being clean and tight.

my money is on a stator, though.

-g
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