bodywork - over my head
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Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
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Sat Feb 01, 2020 8:18 am quote
hibbert wrote:
Looking great Lynnb you might want to mask the rear brake post so the pedal fits when your done
Thanks yes that is a good idea, I'll do that.
bodgemaster
1963 GL, 1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5040
Location: So Cal
Sat Feb 01, 2020 8:20 am quote
Look at you, Lynn, like a pro.
Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1376

Sat Feb 01, 2020 8:48 am quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
Look at you, Lynn, like a pro.
hahaha funny, not me.
Hey whats the recommendation here, seeing as the epoxy needs to be scuffed after a certain time and seeing as I'm in no rush to get the boddy filler work completed, should I maybe use like a red scuff pad and scuff the entire frame this way I can apply filler where needed at my own pace ?
Molto Verboso
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Posts: 1376

Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:24 pm quote
I took a shot at the body filler , an old guy I met up with suggested I apply the shortstrand body filler to the area's there was a weld joint, didn't exactley understand why but did anyway. I think Voodoo also suggested using someing like that. Man the short strand filler is supper thick and setups up in no time.

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Style Maven
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Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:50 pm quote
Looks much like the stuff I use before sanding and I love it, SO much tougher than regular "Bondo". Now block sand it and do it again to fill the low spots you just revealed. Now repeat until no more low spots or holes but you are just skimming good metal. Now more primer & block sand again. Doc Morgan told me a trick to get a little more working time on the filler: when you finish mixing it, spread it out real thin on your palette - when it is in a thick wad the reaction happens quicker coz it heats up.




Not as nice a job as Lynn is doing, but good enuff for me.
Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1376

Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:40 am quote
Voodoo I don't know about as nice a job as I'm doing but yours sure came out finished nice. There sure seems to be a nack needed to get the curves right. I'll be moving on to the regular filler real quick , I just wanted to apply this short strand stuff to the welded area to add strength as was suggested I do.
Another trick besides keeping it on the board thin that was suggested was to cool the filler before adding the hardner, I need all the help with tricks I can get
Style Maven
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Sun Feb 02, 2020 11:59 am quote
Why do you want to switch to ordinary filler? I didn't, used this stuff only.

See? All the way to the end and applied 4 or 5 times before it was all smooth.


Hmmmm.... try this knack: I would make a curved in one direction sanding block maybe a couple inches wide for 'block' sanding the INSIDE curves(where you will be seeing everything on the floorboard top) You know anybody w/ a bandsaw and a big chunk of wood? The radius would want to be a little smaller than the curves you are smoothing. Use some coarse sandpaper rolled into a rounded pad initially to get the high spots leveled down roughly first to save time.
Molto Verboso
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Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1376

Sun Feb 02, 2020 3:26 pm quote
Voodoo you're a better man than me , I found that to be miserable stuff , broke two wood paint stirrers just trying to stir it in the can, maybe your stuff is a bit more user friendly. I switched over to the regular filler and I'm a bit less frustrated. I think I just have a few odd low spots left to fill.

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Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1376

Tue Feb 04, 2020 2:14 pm quote
Hey guys how distinctive should the front metal body edges be ? Should there be a distinctive metal edge here? Thereís the legshield then another metal piece then the outer steering /horn housing , should these metal lips be real visible?

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Molto Verboso
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: 16 Apr 2011
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Location: Siam
Tue Feb 04, 2020 3:38 pm quote
Lynnb wrote:
Hey guys how distinctive should the front metal body edges be ? Should there be a distinctive metal edge here? Thereís the legshield then another metal piece then the outer steering /horn housing , should these metal lips be real visible?
If it's original metal, then yes. If the the horncast cover is a reproduction, then the edges will be less distinct. The old Piaggio pressings are always better. I think that picture looks fine.
Molto Verboso
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Posts: 1376

Tue Feb 04, 2020 4:11 pm quote
nomadinsiam wrote:
Lynnb wrote:
Hey guys how distinctive should the front metal body edges be ? Should there be a distinctive metal edge here? Thereís the legshield then another metal piece then the outer steering /horn housing , should these metal lips be real visible?
If it's original metal, then yes. If the the horncast cover is a reproduction, then the edges will be less distinct. The old Piaggio pressings are always better. I think that picture looks fine.
Ok thankyou , thats what I'll aim for then.
Molto Verboso
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
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Location: Siam
Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:26 am quote
It looks like you are cruising right along quite nicely.
Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
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Posts: 1376

Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:00 am quote
nomadinsiam wrote:
It looks like you are cruising right along quite nicely.
Thank you , yes I am , front of the leg shield is complete and I thought the front would be the hard part but the inside of the leg shield has proved to be a bit more difficult.
Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1376

Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:37 pm quote
As I was saying the rear of the legshield is really not cooperating but it is coming , gotta be a trick or two for this inward curve body work. On the other hand the front is pretty much completed.
Going to need alot more 40 grit paper.

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Style Maven
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Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:29 pm quote
Once again, here's what I did and it seemed to work OK, but still a PIA.
V oodoo wrote:
....

Hmmmm.... try this knack: I would make a curved in one direction sanding block maybe a couple inches wide for 'block' sanding the INSIDE curves(where you will be seeing everything on the floorboard top) You know anybody w/ a bandsaw and a big chunk of wood? The radius would want to be a little smaller than the curves you are smoothing. Use some coarse sandpaper rolled into a rounded pad initially to get the high spots leveled down roughly first to save time.
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2079

Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:47 pm quote
Perseverance and a dust mask is what is needed most!...that and a medium density "soft sanding block" for those inside curves.
Molto Verboso
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Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1376

Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:54 pm quote
V oodoo wrote:
Once again, here's what I did and it seemed to work OK, but still a PIA.
V oodoo wrote:
....

Hmmmm.... try this knack: I would make a curved in one direction sanding block maybe a couple inches wide for 'block' sanding the INSIDE curves(where you will be seeing everything on the floorboard top) You know anybody w/ a bandsaw and a big chunk of wood? The radius would want to be a little smaller than the curves you are smoothing. Use some coarse sandpaper rolled into a rounded pad initially to get the high spots leveled down roughly first to save time.
Iím thinking something , anything curved to wrap the sandpaper around. Iíve ordered new legshield so I just need to keep the edges clean of bondo and give a final epoxy spray.
Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1376

Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:58 pm quote
whodatschrome wrote:
Perseverance and a dust mask is what is needed most!...that and a medium density "soft sanding block" for those inside curves.
Yes indeed perseverance, I donít do more than an hour or so after work, it helps to keep the frustration on reserve. I do where a respirator when sanding, should have seen the dust fly when I tried with the air sander, bad decision.
Iíve been trying a number of techniques, including a drywall soft rectangular shaped sanding block with the sandpaper wrapped around. The soft block seems to be less invasive to the attempt of a achieving the nice curve.
Style Maven
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Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:11 pm quote
I was concerned that a foam sanding block can drop into the low spots and outline the welds, I prefer real "block" sanding where the block cannot go below nominal "grade", but it is much more difficult on inside curves. When you see only a few shiny metal high places but no unsanded hollows, apply no more filler, just prime again and on to the next step.

This one is right about at that point, no more low spots, divots or pits and smooth tangent surface w/ minimum filler. It was a bent wrinkled mess when it arrived, so lots of panel beating involved first here.. Block sanded both sides, but I had neither welds nor great expectations so I just rolled a big length of sandpaper up right size nice and stiff and faked it with my curved counterfeit sanding "block".


But MOST of the results here are gonna depend on Lynn's skill and luck no matter what we suggest, and so far he's doing OK.

Right, Lynn?
Molto Verboso
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Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:33 pm quote
Voodoo I should have the hang of it by the time Iím done. My buddy had asked me if I ever did drywall mudding and of course I have done plenty, like doing it , hell no, but I fake it to make it. Like you said the inside curve is a totally different animal compared to the outside curve. As soon as I hit bare metal I pretty much stop sanding and review the area, if itís a high spot on the side I try to give a lite skim just to cover the metal and work the curve from there. I also found out itís better not to wait until the bottom cures hard but better just before and hit it with the 40 grit nocking down the nibs caused by the applicator.
Iím depending a lot on luck
Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
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Posts: 1376

Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:11 pm quote
Plugging away, legshield just needs a final 180 as well as the floors. Going to try something I seen to enhance the seam down the back end a bit.

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Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2079

Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:24 pm quote
...and for everyone else, here's the link to the video on how this to do it. Fast forward to 9:25. Same concept as adding more icing to a cake.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueKStjtYCsA
Addicted
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 871
Location: california
Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:34 pm quote
Whodat - great vid. Makes it look easy. Damn you tube - will suck you in. Hey - how hard could that be?

Lynnb - keep on trucking brother - looks great. Drawing lots of inspiration from this.
Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1376

Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:38 pm quote
whodatschrome wrote:
...and for everyone else, here's the link to the video on how this to do it. Fast forward to 9:25. Same concept as adding more icing to a cake.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueKStjtYCsA
Yes thatís where I seen it, worked great.
Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
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Posts: 1376

Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:41 pm quote
Thanks Charlieman , believe I wouldnít have gotten this far without all the help and inspiration from NSM .
Lurker
GS-150 VS4
Joined: 04 Feb 2020
Posts: 3
Location: Vallejo, CA
Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:44 am quote
What about using "aircraft stripper", as is mentioned in a few House of Color instructional youtube videos? I wonder where it is available and how expensive it is. It appears to be about the best way since it is preferred by those seasoned pro custom painters like John Kosmoski. I've used a few over the counter strippers, like Jasco, over the years with good results, though mostly on furniture projects. Since all I had was a torch I just finished stripping my gs body by burning off the old paint and condo. I have more time than money at the moment but I wish I had some of that "aircraft stripper".

Sorry if that is out of order. I guess I was just reading the beginning of this long post and wanted to add something folks might want to consider.

Last edited by nickton on Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:28 am; edited 1 time in total
Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1376

Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:11 am quote
nickton wrote:
What about using "aircraft stripper", as is mentioned in a few House of Color instructional youtube videos? I wonder where it is available and how expensive it is. It appears to be about the best way since it is preferred by those seasoned pro custom painters. I've used a few over the counter strippers, like Jasco, over the years with good results, though mostly on furniture projects. Since all I had was a torch I just finished stripping my gs body by burning off the old paint and condo. I have more time than money at the moment but I wish I had some of that "aircraft stripper".
Past that nickton, I'm just finishing up on the body work. Starting seems to be easy , finishing and when is it finished seems to be the hard part.
Welcome to NSM
Molto Verboso
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Posts: 1376

Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:16 am quote
Guys Iím just about done my body work. Iíve been back to Napa here a few times and wanted to get either nason or a Montana brand of primer in quart size but they havenít been able to get it in. I wanted to know and hopefully someone is familiar with whatís available up here in Canada, what would be a just as good 2k primer as the Nason or Montana brand. Iím really frustrated trying to get one or the other of these products from Napa but we do have a Maslock and Atlas auto here but I wouldnít know what is good compared to the next. Whats a good alternative for a high build primer I can look/ask for?
Thanks
bodgemaster
1963 GL, 1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5040
Location: So Cal
Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:29 pm quote
See if these guys will ship Nason to Canada. If not, ask what they recommend.

https://www.johnsonautobodysupply.com/shipping-policy.html
Molto Verboso
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Posts: 1376

Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:32 pm quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
See if these guys will ship Nason to Canada. If not, ask what they recommend.

https://www.johnsonautobodysupply.com/shipping-policy.html
Thanks SoCalGuy I will check , but shipping isn't cheap to canada . Is SPI good? I found this site and they are in Canada http://cattons.ca/store/spi-primers/spi-regular-build-grey-primer-kit-41/
bodgemaster
1963 GL, 1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5040
Location: So Cal
Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:53 pm quote
Yep. SPIís a small upstart company. Never used their stuff but a lot of people swear by their products. They supposedly have great customer service.
Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
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Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:28 pm quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
Yep. SPIís a small upstart company. Never used their stuff but a lot of people swear by their products. They supposedly have great customer service.
Thanks thatís another possibility then if shipping isnít outrageous. Do you know if Shopline is a good line of primer/ paints?
The only other option in town is Valspar if you know anything about his brand?
bodgemaster
1963 GL, 1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5040
Location: So Cal
Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:49 pm quote
Shopline is PPGís low price brand. It sprays nicely but itís thin and doesnít cover as well as some of the more expensive single stage paints. The primerís fine but for color you end up using a lot and donít save money.

No experience with Valspar. It's what Scooterwest sells so itís probably decent.
Lurker
GS-150 VS4
Joined: 04 Feb 2020
Posts: 3
Location: Vallejo, CA
Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:45 pm quote
The people at I think scooter west in San Diego, say that one stage paint is a bad idea, even though it costs more. They sell genuine vespa color matched paints but the price does seem high to me. That's about all I know since I'm still learning.

Great thread by the way.

I just checked out that Johnsons' auto supply link and now I'm thoroughly confused. $500.00 activators, 8,000 different base coats, 8 pages of clear coats. Oh my god... and what do all those different codes mean? What's the difference between K1 and K2, and how much should I get of what? I am lost.
Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1376

Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:41 am quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
Shopline is PPGís low price brand. It sprays nicely but itís thin and doesnít cover as well as some of the more expensive single stage paints. The primerís fine but for color you end up using a lot and donít save money.

No experience with Valspar. It's what Scooterwest sells so itís probably decent.
Thanks again SoCalGuy , looks like I may have to put out the money for a full gallon of the Nason 421-10 as this I know they have gotten some in on Friday. I remember you mentioning it is a good DTM brand, I guess I can always prime the rest of the painted body parts along with the frame.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Tue Feb 18, 2020 12:29 pm quote
Now thats an excelent prepararion to paint, even i wont have the patience as u have Brother Lynnb

Good luck with and single paint and cheer
Molto Verboso
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Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:09 pm quote
koenig blues wrote:
Now thats an excelent prepararion to paint, even i wont have the patience as u have Brother Lynnb

Good luck with and single paint and cheer
Thanks Ebeth
Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
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Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:12 pm quote
Patience paid off Napa got the Nason 421-10 primer. I'm hoping tomorrow I can prime the frame, question how much primer should I pour into the quart ratio cup I have to put 2 or three coats of primer ? I don't want to over dump it in or under either.
Thanks
bodgemaster
1963 GL, 1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5040
Location: So Cal
Thu Feb 20, 2020 8:24 pm quote
I usually mix one paint cup full at a time. Are you doing the cowls, fender, and tank too?

Make sure youíve sanded to the right grit before shooting the primer or youíll see coarse sanding scratches under the primer. Primer usually wonít cover anything coarser than 240. Read the TDS sheet.

And clean everything squeaky clean before you spray. I use rubbing alcohol, blow it dry then go over it with a tack rag to pick up any last minute dust. The cleaner you keep things at every step the nicer the end result.
Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1376

Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:37 pm quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
I usually mix one paint cup full at a time. Are you doing the cowls, fender, and tank too?

Make sure youíve sanded to the right grit before shooting the primer or youíll see coarse sanding scratches under the primer. Primer usually wonít cover anything coarser than 240. Read the TDS sheet.

And clean everything squeaky clean before you spray. I use rubbing alcohol, blow it dry then go over it with a tack rag to pick up any last minute dust. The cleaner you keep things at every step the nicer the end result.
Thanks, no Iím just doing the frame , I see not many scratches but will go over it again with 240.
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