BFA 306
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Ossessionato
05 Stella, '62 VBB, 76 Sprint V, 63 GL
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 2309
Location: Chicago. Well, Evanston, but that's almost Chicago
Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:47 pm quote
I was looking for something and happened to run across this. It's a 306cc motor that BFA have put together for SIP.

Takes a BFA 306 top end.

$1,300 for the cases and another $1,100 for the cylinder, but it's standard P200 parts other than that.

They also make versions of the cases which are reinforced and pre-matched to the Malossi MHR 221, standard PX150, and P200.

They're saying 60 HP potential out of the gate, and it looks like it'll be a bit cheaper than building out a comparable Pinasco 250, too.

(I had a chance to inspect the first 250 that came into the US at Scooterworks back before the holidays. I wrote up some notes on it, but overall, I was impressed with the quality of the parts from both a design and build perspective. They're saying ~30 HP in the stock configuration, but with 50 or so possible, and lots of proprietary components)
Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 1763
Location: Veria, Greece
Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:21 pm quote
BFA is the previously named BSG company. And itís not that cheap. Lots of proprietary parts too (crank, clutch, etc. etc.). Following link is the basic kit and then you need their special exhaust, a big carb, a reinforced gearbox and axle (BFA, Crimaz, KR Automation, etc.). It sumps up to 7k if I remember correctly maybe a bit more...

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/~/products/tuning+kit+sip+bfa+306+cc+_7824501j

And speaking of the Pinasco 250, Iíve read on GSF that theyíre straggling to get more than 30 HP from the kit...
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1672
Location: London UK
Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:57 am quote
Really does all make the MHR the cheap option.
To keep this in perspective my 221 scares the life out of me now. 38mm carb, Pipedesign and Vforce4 reeds. Not Dyno tested but running clean on a 175 main jet, all calculates to approx 44bhp. And I can confirm it is very dangerous and causes a painful grin everytime its ridden.
Can't keep the front down in 1st, quick change to second and keep forward to stop it floating up. Hitting the power in 3rd doesnt stop for breath until 9500. And on a clear road I have once seen 8800 rpm in 4th gear. Which was truly mental.
What one of these BSG 60bhp scooters would be like on the road, I can only imagine. The Pinasco 250 should tune to more than the MHR and would be equally as loony. There will be a market for it but the price tag for either is painful.
Addicted
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 872
Location: california
Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:42 pm quote
Quote:
I was looking for something and happened to run across this.
I tell my wife that all the time (when buying vespa parts I mean - of course)
Molto Verboso
1980 P125X, 1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1566
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:46 pm quote
Jack221 wrote:
Really does all make the MHR the cheap option.
To keep this in perspective my 221 scares the life out of me now. 38mm carb, Pipedesign and Vforce4 reeds. Not Dyno tested but running clean on a 175 main jet, all calculates to approx 44bhp. And I can confirm it is very dangerous and causes a painful grin everytime its ridden.
Can't keep the front down in 1st, quick change to second and keep forward to stop it floating up. Hitting the power in 3rd doesnt stop for breath until 9500. And on a clear road I have once seen 8800 rpm in 4th gear. Which was truly mental.
What one of these BSG 60bhp scooters would be like on the road, I can only imagine. The Pinasco 250 should tune to more than the MHR and would be equally as loony. There will be a market for it but the price tag for either is painful.
Video proof of it on the road or it didn't happen.. . Sounds fun!
Ossessionato
'09 250 GTSie '75 Rally 200 '79 P200 '09 Stella 221
Joined: 13 May 2012
Posts: 2553
Location: Midway, Kentucky
Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:56 pm quote
There are numerous videos on the internet with people riding and on the dyno. I've been told they make big power but rev slow. I think a Quattrini 244/260 looks to be the all around fast motor set-up. I also agree that 221 kits make an abundance of power and are good brisk cruising motors.
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1672
Location: London UK
Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:49 pm quote
swiss1939 wrote:
Video proof of it on the road or it didn't happen.. . Sounds fun!
I know the rules but away from home for a long stretch now. Might get back in Feb. Was going to do one over the holidays but never happened.

Can't see any practical purpose for 60bhp. The advantage of either of these has to be all the strengthened parts. I'm sure my crank will break like SEBs at some inconvenient point.
Ossessionato
05 Stella, '62 VBB, 76 Sprint V, 63 GL
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 2309
Location: Chicago. Well, Evanston, but that's almost Chicago
Sun Jan 12, 2020 4:00 am quote
Jack221 wrote:
The advantage of either of these has to be all the strengthened parts. I'm sure my crank will break like SEBs at some inconvenient point.
The cases are strengthened like crazy, and as I noted, they make them as replacements for standard P200 & P150 cases, too, with no proprietary parts required.

and having killed my crank once already, there's some appeal for me there, too.

I may look into the cases, if not going whole hog for the 306 at some point, but probably not for a few years, at which point, maybe the need for speed will have abated...yeah, right...

The argument that was made to me for the Pinasco 250 cases was that it gives you almost 30 HP in its "stock" configuration, meaning longer lifespan for the power. That makes sense to me. I feel like something in my Stella motor blows up every year or so due to some part failing from load.
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1672
Location: London UK
Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:44 am quote
When and not if my casing cracks, I will need to think about this too. What about the new Malossi cases? Original parts are comparatively cheap and not like we don't enjoy working on them.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 7277
Location: Victoria, Australia
Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:50 am quote
Chandlerman, the 306 is not a 306 without the 64mm crank, so really you're dragged into the whole system. Would still love one though!!

As mentioned by Safis, the Pinasco 250 in it's "stock" form with rotary valve and Pinasco exhaust is only up to something like 24hp on the GSF thread. Best figure so far has been just a teensy bit over 30 on one motor - full reed etc etc. Certainly nothing like 30 out of the box. There has been talk that Pinasco's 30 is measured at the crank rather than rear wheel, which is the 'normal' GSF method.
Once someone else designs a cylinder for that case though, there's probably much more potential, eg Egig's M250 (for Qattrini C200 smallframe case), dyno'd at 50hp in "touring" form.
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