Fat Tire
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Ossessionato
2006 Vespa GT (Rocket): 2005 Vespa GT (Razzo): 2006 Vespa GT (Crash): 2007 Vespa GT (Vanessa): 2009 Yamaha Zuma 125 (Zoom): 2018 Yamaha Xmax (Max),
Joined: 26 Sep 2006
Posts: 4288
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:36 am quote
I currently have two running GTs. Rocket, my 2006 and Razzo (Italian for Rocket) 2005.

Razzo has had a terrible wobble for ages.

So, this weekend I thought I would try a radical fix.

I have two extra rims, one mounted with a front tire, Michelin Power Pure 120 width, the other with a rear tire, Michelin Power Pure 140.

Leftovers from my ill fated 2018 SCR.

I took off the front wheel and replaced it using the 140 width rear tire.

A quick ride around the neighborhood showed the wobble virtually gone, then today I rode into the office using one hand only the entire way to see if it would wobble.

It is less than a mile on 30 mph streets, but no wobble at all today. The old setup would have had me grabbing the left grip every time I took my hand off to avoid the extreme wobble.

It rides fine, turning and braking not affected much at all.

I intend to keep it that way for a while to see if it lasts.

Bill

Fat tire.JPG
The fat one is on the left.

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2016 Sprint S 150 (his), 2016 Sprint 150 Blu Gaiola (hers), 2006 GTS 250 Excalibur Gray (hers), 2006 GTS 250 Black (his), 2012 Kymco Downtown 200
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Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:54 am quote
I will be interested in the long term results. Keep us posted!
Ossessionato
2006 Vespa GT (Rocket): 2005 Vespa GT (Razzo): 2006 Vespa GT (Crash): 2007 Vespa GT (Vanessa): 2009 Yamaha Zuma 125 (Zoom): 2018 Yamaha Xmax (Max),
Joined: 26 Sep 2006
Posts: 4288
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:04 am quote
wbdvt wrote:
I will be interested in the long term results. Keep us posted!
You can test it yourself on your upcoming visit.

Bill
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Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:19 am quote
Interesting report. I wonder what effect a wider rear would have?
Ossessionato
2006 Vespa GT (Rocket): 2005 Vespa GT (Razzo): 2006 Vespa GT (Crash): 2007 Vespa GT (Vanessa): 2009 Yamaha Zuma 125 (Zoom): 2018 Yamaha Xmax (Max),
Joined: 26 Sep 2006
Posts: 4288
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:37 am quote
zigzagguzzi wrote:
Interesting report. I wonder what effect a wider rear would have?
I have been running 140 rear tires for the past 6 years. Never an issue.

This one now has 140 tires on both ends.

Bill
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 38070
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:08 am quote
I'm sure the fact that it's a new tyre is what makes the real difference. My GTS300 had a terrible wobble - a new front tyre fixed it immediately.
Ossessionato
2006 Vespa GT (Rocket): 2005 Vespa GT (Razzo): 2006 Vespa GT (Crash): 2007 Vespa GT (Vanessa): 2009 Yamaha Zuma 125 (Zoom): 2018 Yamaha Xmax (Max),
Joined: 26 Sep 2006
Posts: 4288
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:23 am quote
jimc wrote:
I'm sure the fact that it's a new tyre is what makes the real difference. My GTS300 had a terrible wobble - a new front tyre fixed it immediately.
I have a new 120 that I can try.

I should do that to make it a scientific study.
Hooked
2006 250ie
Joined: 13 Jun 2012
Posts: 279
Location: Bellingham, WA
Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:28 am quote
I may try this just for the look of it. The 120 has never looked like it fit the space, if you know what I mean.
Ossessionato
2006 Vespa GT (Rocket): 2005 Vespa GT (Razzo): 2006 Vespa GT (Crash): 2007 Vespa GT (Vanessa): 2009 Yamaha Zuma 125 (Zoom): 2018 Yamaha Xmax (Max),
Joined: 26 Sep 2006
Posts: 4288
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:10 am quote
phaskins wrote:
I may try this just for the look of it. The 120 has never looked like it fit the space, if you know what I mean.
Being an old car guy, I have never seen a car that didn't look better with wider tires. It may be true for the Vespa too.

I took it out for a 40 mile ride for lunch today. Some highway and some city. It performed very well, cornering fine.

I touched on an indicated 80 mph on I-10 coming back to town. That may have been relatively accurate with the larger tire on the front. I didn't carry the GPS.

When I came to the stop at the exit from the highway, I heard the sound of a blown exhaust gasket. That is the biggest design flaw with these fine machines.

Bill
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Mon Feb 18, 2019 1:29 pm quote
Remember when the wide ovals were introduced? We thought they were the cats meow.
Ossessionato
2006 Vespa GT (Rocket): 2005 Vespa GT (Razzo): 2006 Vespa GT (Crash): 2007 Vespa GT (Vanessa): 2009 Yamaha Zuma 125 (Zoom): 2018 Yamaha Xmax (Max),
Joined: 26 Sep 2006
Posts: 4288
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Mon Feb 18, 2019 2:29 pm quote
zigzagguzzi wrote:
Remember when the wide ovals were introduced? We thought they were the cats meow.
I do remember those!
Molto Verboso
GTS 250i.e.
Joined: 12 Jun 2008
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Location: Sunshine Coast, Australia
Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:15 am quote
Some wheels are better than others. I recently bought some new GTS wheels with nearly new tyres on them. I had new tyres on the bike but thought I'd see what the black wheels looked like on the bike and changed the front wheel. What I got was all front end wobble gone. My GTS rides like a dream now. Michelin city grips on both wheels.
Molto Verboso
Vespa GTS 250ie
Joined: 02 Jun 2015
Posts: 1229
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:16 am quote
Have you tried removing weight from the rear if you have a box for example or adding weight to the front? Maybe try moving your body forward while riding to see if the wobble changes.
I've had scoot's with wobble and found that weight distribution had a large effect on wobble.
Also, tire pressure had a large effect. High pressure created more wobble due to footprint size. If the shoulders of the tire are not in proper contact they can't damp wobble as they should. FWIW
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'07 LX150 (Sold), '17 GTS300, '16 BV350, '15 EN650, '09 FXDF
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Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:20 am quote
I should have realized before I opened this thread it didn't involve beer.
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Location: West Sacramento, CA
Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:05 am quote
Jet Peddler wrote:
I should have realized before I opened this thread it didn't involve beer.
Not the biggest fan of their beers.

Please continue to give us a review, especially when you switch back to that other new tire and what felt better/had less wobble. You know, Scientific method and all.

I had a nail in my rear tire a few months back and changed out to a Zippy as it was on sale considerably cheaper than the Michelin at my local shop. Forgot to ask for the wider tire. My front is still from the Original owner (It's a Michelin City Grip) and has plenty of tread but I expect to need to change it this year. I'd like to know if the wider tires on the front give more stability and all.
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Vespa LX150 GTS250ie GTS300x2
Joined: 11 Dec 2009
Posts: 2066
Location: St. Pete, Fla
Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:55 pm quote
Damn, I will miss that thing trying to shake you off it's back!!
(never saw one shake like that one)
Ossessionato
2006 Vespa GT (Rocket): 2005 Vespa GT (Razzo): 2006 Vespa GT (Crash): 2007 Vespa GT (Vanessa): 2009 Yamaha Zuma 125 (Zoom): 2018 Yamaha Xmax (Max),
Joined: 26 Sep 2006
Posts: 4288
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:06 am quote
lostboater wrote:
Damn, I will miss that thing trying to shake you off it's back!!
(never saw one shake like that one)
With Rocket now running so well, you will not be seeing me on this one for a while.
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Location: Campbell, California, USA, Earth
Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:59 am quote
Wobble
My experience over the last 14 years of riding a GT200 (and also a BV500 more recently) has been wobble comes from the tires. I am pretty well convinced it is the tread pattern. Some tires will cause wobble from the get go as was my experience with Michelin scooter tires in the past. Pirelli tires didn't produce the wobble until they were pretty much worn down. I am assuming as the tire wears, possibly some "cupping" develops, and wobble can sometimes develop. I know that there are a ton of MVers that don't believe this but with 44,000 miles on my GT200 I've gone through a lot of tires. I presently am using Pirelli Diablo tires and am wobble free. I just thought I would throw my 2 cents in.
Ossessionato
2006 Vespa GT (Rocket): 2005 Vespa GT (Razzo): 2006 Vespa GT (Crash): 2007 Vespa GT (Vanessa): 2009 Yamaha Zuma 125 (Zoom): 2018 Yamaha Xmax (Max),
Joined: 26 Sep 2006
Posts: 4288
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:30 pm quote
WLeuthold wrote:
jimc wrote:
I'm sure the fact that it's a new tyre is what makes the real difference. My GTS300 had a terrible wobble - a new front tyre fixed it immediately.
I have a new 120 that I can try.

I should do that to make it a scientific study.
With a few rides planned and a worn rear tire on Rocket, I took this wheel/tire off the front of Razzo and put it on the rear of Rocket.

Then put the left over Cannonball mounted new 120 tire ont the front of Razzo.

After a ride around the neighborhood, it didn't wobble with the new 120.

I will leave it alone now.
MichaelR wrote:
My experience over the last 14 years of riding a GT200 (and also a BV500 more recently) has been wobble comes from the tires. I am pretty well convinced it is the tread pattern. Some tires will cause wobble from the get go as was my experience with Michelin scooter tires in the past. Pirelli tires didn't produce the wobble until they were pretty much worn down. I am assuming as the tire wears, possibly some "cupping" develops, and wobble can sometimes develop. I know that there are a ton of MVers that don't believe this but with 44,000 miles on my GT200 I've gone through a lot of tires. I presently am using Pirelli Diablo tires and am wobble free. I just thought I would throw my 2 cents in.
You are correct in this case. As for tires and mileage, Rocket now has 89,000 miles and Razzo 29,000. They have been run exclusively on Michelin Power Pures. The wild wobble on Razzo was something unusual, but after checking my records, the old tire may have had 15,000 miles on it. Plenty of tread but a bad wobbler.

Bill
Ossessionato
2006 Vespa GT (Rocket): 2005 Vespa GT (Razzo): 2006 Vespa GT (Crash): 2007 Vespa GT (Vanessa): 2009 Yamaha Zuma 125 (Zoom): 2018 Yamaha Xmax (Max),
Joined: 26 Sep 2006
Posts: 4288
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:29 am quote
Back to tires on Razzo, I has a nice ride with Lostboater this week.

Before heading out, I decided to change both tires as the rear was on the wear bars at 7500 miles.

I had bought Michelin City Grips a few months ago for the Zuma, but they were still sitting in the garage.

I took the tires and wheels from a wrecked GT I bought recently to my new tire changing shop, where they did their usual masterful job.

25 minutes to change both. No wheel scratches. Nitrogen filled. $25 each.

The big difference for me was the 130 rear from the 140 Power Pures I have been using for years.

The 650 mile ride was a good test.

No wobble on the front.

The scooter always felt stable at any speed.

Cornering and braking about the same as with the Power Pures.

Ultimate top speed, in perfect conditions, downhill, downwind, in a draft appears to have dropped a couple of mph due to the reduced gearing effect of the smaller diameter rear tire.

Other than that, performance felt the same.

Overall, Razzo felt great, so I will keep these tires on it until they wear out.

Bill
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Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:54 am quote


Ebeth will be proud?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Modded Vespa 2017 GTV 300, BMW 2017 C650GT, Ural 2019 Gear Up
Joined: 21 May 2017
Posts: 6558
Location: Downtown Toronto
Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:04 am quote
Interesting thread, keep the reports coming. It is hard to say whether the fat tire or simply a new tire corrected the notorious head shake issues we deal with. I've just learnt to accept it but would love for it to get fixed. When I get on the BMW after riding the Vespa for a while I really enjoy the stability. Like almost all of us that have it the Vespa is just fine once you are moving but as soon as you slow down... wobble, wobble, wobble. Very easy to adjust for, just hold on. Other than that I'm with Bill and the Vespa 300's are great little machines.

I think I'll have new City Grips put on for the spring and will report back. Maybe we can keep this thread as our current wobble thread for a bit.

At the end of the day it's not so bad as Vespas wobble but they won't fall down. Ok they do but not from the wobble...
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