NSR F1 considering switching to 2 stroke engines
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Ossessionato
1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2179
Location: Staten Island, NY
Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:25 am quote
https://www.gptoday.net/en/news/f1/253485/f1-considering-switch-to-two-stroke-eco-fuelled-engines-for-2025

Same possibility for MotoGP
https://www.visordown.com/news/racing/motogp/could-motogp-return-two-stroke-engine-formula

Interesting talk of possible hydrogen 2 stroke engines.

Maybe some day we can get a modern manual hydrogen 2 stroke Vespa again. Or possibly an easy conversion of vintage engines to new fuel type.
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BV 350
Joined: 22 Nov 2016
Posts: 613
Location: Nebraska
Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:57 pm quote
Maybe
With a crankshaft on each end, and long cylinders in the middle, I'm guessing not especially compact. Would have to be supercharged, taking up yet more space. Might need to run fairly highy boost to get it to run fast enough to put out the kind of power current powerplants provide. Twice the moving mass (although nice inherent balance) for the same capacity, perhaps problematic for high revs. Given the trouble with gear drives and camshafts, I'm guessing the gear train to sync the crankshafts would need to be highly robust.

Current engines use large bore/stroke ratios to allow high revs and compact form. Not sure how well that would work with piston-port valves.

And as is always the case with hydrogen, how do you store it prior to use? Can't liquify it at ambient temps.
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GTS 300
Joined: 03 Jul 2019
Posts: 286
Location: lewisville , nc. 27023
Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:38 pm quote
It's certainly an interesting theory , and new technology is every where.

I'll file this one under "When Pigs Fly"
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2006 GT200L "Lone Star"-Sold, 2006 Yamaha Majesty YP400
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Location: Texas
Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:41 pm quote
Anybody ever convert a Vespa to propane just for the heck of it? It's not unheard of with cars. Just wondering.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2179
Location: Staten Island, NY
Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:41 pm quote
Lol. When Hindenburg flies, yeah I found the idea of hydrogen fuel Vespa engine interesting for a few minutes today when I read this article... Until I thought about having a 5,000psi tank full of hydrogen liquid between my legs with practically no protection from crashes around it. The thought of a bomb between my legs changed my mind fast!

Last edited by swiss1939 on Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:47 pm; edited 2 times in total
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2006 GT200L "Lone Star"-Sold, 2006 Yamaha Majesty YP400
Joined: 15 Jan 2019
Posts: 636
Location: Texas
Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:45 pm quote
swiss1939 wrote:
Lol. When Hindenburg flies.
Wonder how passenger aviation would have developed if the Hindenburg had been filled with helium, as it was designed for, but the Nazis couldn't get from the US because it was a strategic resource in the 30s.

Rigid airships are still ungainly and slow, but are pretty energy efficient at lifting loads over distances.
Ossessionato
LXV 150 3v ie. Midnight Blue (Sold)
Joined: 06 Dec 2010
Posts: 3363
Location: Bangkok
Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:02 pm quote
Quote:
Two-stroke engines are best known for powering much smaller vehicles, such as lawnmowers and small motorbikes.
I know them from powering ocean going ships but...

Also lets not forget the current Evinrude G2 outboards
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GTS 300
Joined: 16 May 2009
Posts: 699
Location: PHX area
Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:17 am quote
Aha; the smell of burning of Castor oil brings back great memories of Saab club racers.
I know that won’t happen again but to have good sounds from a F1 car seems to be a long time a coming, looking forward to the future.
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GTS 300
Joined: 03 Jul 2019
Posts: 286
Location: lewisville , nc. 27023
Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:29 am quote
I read several more articles about this after my posted response
"When Pig's Fly"

Maybe I'll change my mind when I actually see and hear some prototype's running .

My bet is that if it happens, it will be as a "Special " class at the
LeMan's 24hr first.

The organizers do this every so often if something really new is out there.
An example was the Delta winged car a two or three years ago.
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BV 350
Joined: 22 Nov 2016
Posts: 613
Location: Nebraska
Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:11 am quote
Not unknown
For a few years, the committee making the rules for LeMans favored diesels. So the diesels won. The dual-piston engine probably works great with diesels, 'cause they have very high compression(expansion) ratios, and they run relatively slowly. With direct-cylinder injection, might be made to work with gas or other fuel as well. Still think it will be tough to get them to rev high enough, though.

I still see packaging problems, when it comes to compact spaces. Especially in F1, where air flow around the engine provides significant downforce.

Saw that F1 is claiming that they'll be 'carbon neutral' in a few years, no doubt by buying carbon credits lavishly. No way that flying cars around the globe will be ecologically sound.
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