ĎNother project - GL Rescue Mod
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bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x 2), 74 Primavera (x 2), 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5487
Location: So Cal
Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:39 pm quote
Shock is OG, refurbíd.

Think I see the problem. Cowlís too straight, especially at the bottom. Wish I wouldíve caught this before it was painted. Question is how to fix now.

Maybe lay the cowl on a soft surface and apply a wee bit of pressure to add a little more curve to it? Obviously donít want to put a crease in it, deform the vents etc ... What say ye?

Walking a fine line here between success and major screw up...

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Style Maven
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa PK50XL2 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7886
Location: seattle/athens
Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:35 pm quote
Take a measurement to the floor for reference, then block it up with lots of pillows and gently step on the backside in your slippers? Move it maybe 1/4" at a time until you're happy with the fit. Half art, half science.
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2689

Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:38 pm quote
I'd put it over my knee to bend it. Like what Voodoo said, "half art, half science".
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 7966
Location: Victoria, Australia
Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:06 am quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
The NGK cap on the centered plug also interferes in front. Going to have to use a flatter style plug cap.
I've come around to thinking that the original Piaggio clip style is the best kind of plug cap of all. That with the rubber boot looks like a piece of junk but it actually works really well, keeping the cooling air inside the cowl. And you just can't get any lower profile.

I'm with Terry and WDC, except I'd use the arm of your sofa or similar. It'll probably give pretty easily.

Looks great Mike.
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x 2), 74 Primavera (x 2), 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5487
Location: So Cal
Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:04 pm quote
Crisis averted. We have clearance.

Put the panel on and started pulling at the bottom. Kept expecting it to crease but managed to wedge my fingers under the flywheel just enough curve it out about a 1/4Ē.

Still a tight fit, but has some clearance now.

Art & science comes through. Thanks.

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Hooked
58 VB1T, 68 SS180, 81 100 Sport
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 434
Location: Long Beach, CA
Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:27 pm quote
Nice work! Glad to see you were able to get fitting without damage. Slow and steady art and science for the win! I think I can all say we're all anxiously awaiting the full reveal. Coming along nicely. Great attention to detail. keep it up.
Moderator
P200 VNB Li125
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4444
Location: Hustletown, TX
Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:21 am quote
Well sorted!
Ossessionato
2015 GTS300, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 4510
Location: San Diego, CA
Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:52 am quote
Ok with shroud too now?
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x 2), 74 Primavera (x 2), 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5487
Location: So Cal
Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:39 am quote
Outward fit is fine. Only issue now is the plug cap (easy fix) and this reinforcement ridge on the cowl. Need to grind it back a bit. Canít get the panel on and off without it digging into the cylinder shroud.

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Hooked
79p200e 66smallstate 85pk50xl 84p125ets 63GL
Joined: 24 Nov 2016
Posts: 223
Location: Flatness, Tx
Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:48 am quote
Can you bend the reinforcement ridge back or down a bit? Then glue a strip of airbox lip rubber over it so it won't mess up your nice cylinder shroud paint.
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x 2), 74 Primavera (x 2), 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5487
Location: So Cal
Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:33 am quote
Iíll try bending before grinding. Airbox rubber is an ingenious idea, will try that too.
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x 2), 74 Primavera (x 2), 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5487
Location: So Cal
Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:41 pm quote
Air box rubber = brilliant. Thx Mark.

Ground the pointed ridge down and glued a bit of rubber on to protect the shroud. Works great.

And speedo goodness from the king.

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Molto Verboso
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 1781
Location: california
Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:51 am quote
Gonna be too pretty to ride if you're not careful.
But don't worry - one trip on the trailer will take care of that... trust me.
🙂

When does this thing get its full reveal - and a ride?!
Member
50 Special, Stella 2T, plus several others
Joined: 22 Oct 2020
Posts: 27
Location: Chicago
Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:42 am quote
Would have been cool a patina bike. But what you are doing is a great thing as well. Gonna be pretty
Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 2863
Location: Nashville
Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:48 am quote
Doesn't work as a patina bike without the cowls. I've got a GL Project waiting for me in a similar state.

Welcome to the Forum. I just moved from Chicago to Nashville, or we could have met up for a ride.
Member
50 Special, Stella 2T, plus several others
Joined: 22 Oct 2020
Posts: 27
Location: Chicago
Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:56 am quote
chandlerman wrote:
Doesn't work as a patina bike without the cowls. I've got a GL Project waiting for me in a similar state.

Welcome to the Forum. I just moved from Chicago to Nashville, or we could have met up for a ride.
I guess I didnít see that part about the cowls missing. Iíve got a VNB patina bike about ready to get a LML. Should make it more useable.

Nashville. I have a buddy living there now, maybe Iíll hit you up if Iím ever there we can talk Vespas...
Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 2863
Location: Nashville
Fri Oct 23, 2020 11:05 am quote
god-KILLER wrote:
I guess I didnít see that part about the cowls missing. Iíve got a VNB patina bike about ready to get a LML. Should make it more useable.

Nashville. I have a buddy living there now, maybe Iíll hit you up if Iím ever there we can talk Vespas...
I'll be here You don't even need to bring a scoot like Charlieman did--I usually have some spares to choose from.

The bit about the cowls was a quick mention up in the earlier pages of the thread. I mostly keyed in on it because I have the same issue. Mine had a sprint cowl on the motor and they clutch side cowl is rusted out big time, so if I have to paint, I might as well paint it all and make it pretty.
Member
50 Special, Stella 2T, plus several others
Joined: 22 Oct 2020
Posts: 27
Location: Chicago
Fri Oct 23, 2020 11:16 am quote
chandlerman wrote:
god-KILLER wrote:
I guess I didnít see that part about the cowls missing. Iíve got a VNB patina bike about ready to get a LML. Should make it more useable.

Nashville. I have a buddy living there now, maybe Iíll hit you up if Iím ever there we can talk Vespas...
I'll be here You don't even need to bring a scoot like Charlieman did--I usually have some spares to choose from.

The bit about the cowls was a quick mention up in the earlier pages of the thread. I mostly keyed in on it because I have the same issue. Mine had a sprint cowl on the motor and they clutch side cowl is rusted out big time, so if I have to paint, I might as well paint it all and make it pretty.
That would be great.
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x 2), 74 Primavera (x 2), 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5487
Location: So Cal
Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:21 pm quote
god-KILLER wrote:
Would have been cool a patina bike. But what you are doing is a great thing as well. Gonna be pretty
Appreciate that. Trust me, thought hard about leaving the patina, but that wasn't in the cards for this scoot. It was beat up, bent, dented, left for dead and nowhere close to being in rideable condition. The whole thing had to come apart, and once apart, it was obvious major rehab was needed.

Honestly, I'm not thrilled with the look of a shiny new speedo but the old one was too wasted to even read. Almost everything else in the headset is OG ... outer gear cables, pinch bolts, etc. Tried to use OG parts wherever possible. There's plenty of vintage still on the scoot.
charlieman22 wrote:
Gonna be too pretty to ride if you're not careful.
But don't worry - one trip on the trailer will take care of that... trust me.

When does this thing get its full reveal - and a ride?!
No scoot of mine will ever be too pretty to ride, guaranteed. I'd put a dent in it myself before I'd let that happen.

Should be done by Thanksgiving. The last bits are taking forever ... mostly just oddball missing bits and bolts that got broken or lost during tear down.
Moderator
P200 VNB Li125
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4444
Location: Hustletown, TX
Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:33 pm quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
Should be done by Thanksgiving. The last bits are taking forever ... mostly just oddball missing bits and bolts that got broken or lost during tear down.
True story.
The last 10% takes ages.

Cannot wait to see the reveal.
Hooked
79p200e 66smallstate 85pk50xl 84p125ets 63GL
Joined: 24 Nov 2016
Posts: 223
Location: Flatness, Tx
Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:45 pm quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
Air box rubber = brilliant. Thx Mark.

Ground the pointed ridge down and glued a bit of rubber on to protect the shroud. Works great.

And speedo goodness from the king.
Lol. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile. Glad the rubber idea worked out.

Speedo looks BOSS!
Birdsnest wrote:
SoCalGuy wrote:
Should be done by Thanksgiving. The last bits are taking forever ... mostly just oddball missing bits and bolts that got broken or lost during tear down.
True story.
The last 10% takes ages.

Cannot wait to see the reveal.
I think it is called the ninety-ninety rule....

'The first 90% of a project takes 90% of the time. The last 10% of a project takes 90% of the time.'

Thanksgiving day maiden with a bottle of bubbly broken over the legshield! That'll be a good Thanksgiving!! On second thought, maybe not broken over the legshield, be a shame to mess up the new paint. Maybe just poured over.
Molto Verboso
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 1781
Location: california
Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:34 am quote
Quote:
No scoot of mine will ever be too pretty to ride, guaranteed. I'd put a dent in it myself before I'd let that happen.
Needed that chuckle.
Words to live by.
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x 2), 74 Primavera (x 2), 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5487
Location: So Cal
Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:10 pm quote
Ok, question of the week:

Not sure the output shaft is seated all the way in the bearing.

How far do the rear axle splines normally protrude out from the hub?

My Supers have a different style rear hub so Iíve got nothing to really compare it to.

Thx.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 7966
Location: Victoria, Australia
Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:32 pm quote
I doubt they should protrude from the hub at all...? But as long as they are not in the way when you put the washer on, it shouldn't be an issue.
Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 2863
Location: Nashville
Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:43 pm quote
Ginch wrote:
I doubt they should protrude from the hub at all...? But as long as they are not in the way when you put the washer on, it shouldn't be an issue.
I'm with Ginch on this one. On my VBB, If I don't have the washer on the rear hub, the splines would prevent it tightening down properly. While that's an 8" bike, it's early 60's, so I assume the design philosophy was similar.

Of course, what do I know...I'm the guy who's been riding around with his rear shock not attached to the frame
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x 2), 74 Primavera (x 2), 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5487
Location: So Cal
Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:55 pm quote
Sorry bad description of the issue... Let me try again.

Output shaft obviously has to be seated all the way in the bearing. Must go ó> thru case and thru bearing ó> so that there are sufficient splines on hub end to allow mounting of hub+ washer + rear axle nut (and cotter pin of course).

My question is how far does the axle normally protrude - if any - beyond the hub? Put differently, where is the nut in relation to the hub?

Ginch - Itís not a question of the splines being in the way, itís a question of there not being enough splinage. Seems the shaft may not be pulled all the way through the bearing.

Thereís a little chrome hubcap that pops on there. Can somebody pop their hub cap off and take a pic?

Thx.

Like I said, different style hub on super.
Hooked
79p200e 66smallstate 85pk50xl 84p125ets 63GL
Joined: 24 Nov 2016
Posts: 223
Location: Flatness, Tx
Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:39 pm quote
Here ya go, Mike.

Hope this helps.

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bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x 2), 74 Primavera (x 2), 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5487
Location: So Cal
Sun Oct 25, 2020 5:11 pm quote
Thank you Mark
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x 2), 74 Primavera (x 2), 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5487
Location: So Cal
Tue Oct 27, 2020 7:22 am quote
All righty then ...issue resolved.

Torquing the rear hub down pulled the shaft farther into the bearing.

However, even with 60ft/lbs the cruciform still wasnít resting comfortably in the gear stack. Spinning the rear wheel with the selector in neutral produced a dreaded clicking, indicating the shaft was still about a .25mm short.

How to fix?

FaceTime poidog Mark...

After a high level conference worthy of fortune 500 executives and much careful engineering analysis, we came up with a plan to shim the selector rod.

Got a random washer, ground the sides flat, and inserted it and some loctite between a new locking tab washer and the rod.

Wa-lah. Buttery smooth shifter.

Kudos Mark. Iíve said it before and Iíll say it again, this forum is priceless.

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Last edited by SoCalGuy on Tue Oct 27, 2020 7:45 am; edited 1 time in total
Moderator
P200 VNB Li125
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4444
Location: Hustletown, TX
Tue Oct 27, 2020 7:39 am quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
All righty then ...issue resolved.

Torquing the rear hub down pulled the shaft farther into the bearing.

However, even with 60ft/lbs the cruciform still wasnít resting comfortably in the gear stack. Spinning the rear wheel with the selector in neutral produced a dreaded clicking, indicating the shaft was still about a .25mm short.

How to fix?

FaceTime poidog Mark...

After a high level conference worthy of fortune 500 executives and much careful engineering analysis, we came up with a plan to shim the selector rod.

Got a random washer, ground the sides flat, and inserted it and some loctite between a new locking tab washer and the rod.

Wa-lah. Buttery smooth shifter.

Kudos Mark. Iíve said it before and Iíll say it again, this forum is priceless.
Right on.
Poi dog knows what's what.
Pretty sure he has all the Vespa merit badges...
Hooked
79p200e 66smallstate 85pk50xl 84p125ets 63GL
Joined: 24 Nov 2016
Posts: 223
Location: Flatness, Tx
Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:51 am quote
You are too kind. It is the collective brain trust of this forum, and all the info on here, I am telling you!
Glad you got the selector issue sorted, Mike. Kudos to YOU!

Drum roll..............

(In anticipation of the grand reveal!)

(I got a sneak peek via FaceTime.... man o man o man!)




Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 7966
Location: Victoria, Australia
Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:11 pm quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
Spinning the rear wheel with the selector in neutral produced a dreaded clicking, indicating the shaft was still about a .25mm short.
Glad you got it sorted. How did you decide that the amount it needed to move was 0.25mm? Just wondered how you measured that... or more of a guesstimate?
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x 2), 74 Primavera (x 2), 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5487
Location: So Cal
Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:28 pm quote
Hey Ginch ... the .25mm was a SWAG based on the position of cam on the selector in relation to the neutral notch. Turns out we werenít far off.

The clicking indicated that the cruciform was not centered in the space for neutral between first and second gears when the selector cam was in the ďneutral notchĒ of the batwing.

With the cam slightly out of the neutral notch toward 2d gear, the clicking disappeared. That meant the selector rod had to be lengthened (shimmed) that amount ... about the thickness of a flat washer.

If the cam had been out of the neutral notch toward first gear, that wouldíve required shimming the selector box.

Make sense?

All credit on this goes to poidog btw. He did the heavy thinking. All I did was take things apart and put them back together.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 7966
Location: Victoria, Australia
Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:34 pm quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
Hey Ginch ... the .25mm was a SWAG based on the position of cam on the selector in relation to the neutral notch. Turns out we werenít far off.

The clicking indicated that the cruciform was not centered in the space for neutral between first and second gears when the selector cam was in the ďneutral notchĒ of the batwing.

With the cam slightly out of the neutral notch toward 2d gear, the clicking disappeared. That meant the selector rod had to be lengthened (shimmed) that amount ... about the thickness of a flat washer.

If the cam had been out of the neutral notch toward first gear, that wouldíve required shimming the selector box.

Make sense?

All credit on this goes to poidog btw. He did the heavy thinking. All I did was take things apart and put them back together.
Yep, makes sense. Wish I'd had that knowledge years ago when I had no clue what to do about the clicking. Nice work.
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2689

Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:41 pm quote
I've also heard of doubling or trippling up selector box gaskets. I don't know if it would have worked in this application though.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 7966
Location: Victoria, Australia
Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:52 pm quote
whodatschrome wrote:
I've also heard of doubling or trippling up selector box gaskets. I don't know if it would have worked in this application though.
I have some DRT spacers for this purpose. Perhaps I tried them at the time? If so didn't work. Guess they moved things in the wrong direction.

I did see on 10Pollici some time ago a jig that allowed you to build up your gear stack and selector box outside of the cases first. You could actually see where things aligned (or didn't). Like the idea, but was hugely expensive. And no saying that the dimensions of your case would be accurately represented by the jig.
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x 2), 74 Primavera (x 2), 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5487
Location: So Cal
Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:02 pm quote
whodatschrome wrote:
I've also heard of doubling or trippling up selector box gaskets. I don't know if it would have worked in this application though.
Right, shimming the selector box moves the selector rod, and cruciform, away from the wheel.

We needed to move it the opposite direction, which is what a spacer on the selector rod does.
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2689

Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:43 am quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
whodatschrome wrote:
I've also heard of doubling or trippling up selector box gaskets. I don't know if it would have worked in this application though.
Right, shimming the selector box moves the selector rod, and cruciform, away from the wheel.

We needed to move it the opposite direction, which is what a spacer on the selector rod does.
Gotcha. Good for you for figuring out a working solution on the cheap though!
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x 2), 74 Primavera (x 2), 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5487
Location: So Cal
Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:33 pm quote
Decal was a big step.

Weíre getting close brothers...

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Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 7966
Location: Victoria, Australia
Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:55 pm quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
Weíre getting close brothers...
How many more pages before we see a full shot of the scoot? The Big Reveal?

Looks amazing Mike.
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