‘Nother project
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Style Maven
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special '66(?) Super125 + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7606
Location: seattle/athens
Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:03 pm quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
Oh you mean just press it out with my non-existent press? Why didn’t I think of that.

Underside pics, as requested. Excuse the crude, hasn’t been washed yet.
We just pressed out gmontag's piston that was stuck a similar way and was still a challenging setup to clear the crank w/ a small HF shop press. But one time in Greece I did it using a bottle jack and some kinda Rube Goldberg setup I can't quite recall, but it worked. You got a bottle jack?

Most of that rust does not looks nearly fatal, but those cracks near the cowl pins will need some work.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 7276
Location: Victoria, Australia
Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:30 pm quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
Rotary pad is perfecto.
It's amazing!
Addicted
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 871
Location: california
Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:39 pm quote
Is that what a rotary pad actually looks like?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 7276
Location: Victoria, Australia
Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:17 am quote
charlieman22 wrote:
Is that what a rotary pad actually looks like?
Nah that's been photoshopped! Everyone knows they come with 1 or 2 grooves that run the length of the pad!

Member
1962 Vespa GS160, 1985 Vespa electric start T5, 1965 Lambretta TV200, 1966 Lambretta SX200
Joined: 30 Oct 2019
Posts: 31
Location: Seattle
Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:38 pm quote
V oodoo wrote:
Let's just vote, you first? (you got a welder guy and a spare twenty?)

If you do get it welded, you could try clamping it up, tapping it clean, dremelling in full chamfers at the break then installing a copper bolt and crossing your fingers it'll be fine after it's welded and you pull the bolt.
Let me preface my comment by stating that is a great service to vintage Vespa riding when a scooter in this condition is reconditioned/restored and put back into service once more, but that doesn't alter my advice, which is, get a replacement GL150 motor and use that one instead of this one. My advice is based on two key principles. The first is the not so rarity of this later version of the GL150. While I, as I suspect many others here reading this thread, love this model Vespa for its unique features, Piaggio did make about 80K of these, so getting a good condition replacement motor should not be difficult, or expensive, and I feel you will be much happier with the finished product once you have rebuilt the motor to your liking. Second, I think you may spend a good deal of time, and money, chasing the idea that your present motor can, or should, be reused just to be disappointed, if you are lucky (injured or killed if you are not). Think, death trap! You are cruising at 50 mph in traffic, enjoying your finely done GL when the motor breaks, sending you (and your passenger, should you be enjoying the fruits of your labor on a fine sunny day with company) sprawling into the street hoping not to be crushed under the tires of people sharing the road with you, driving their SUVs, paying more attention to their cell phones than you! I have to advise against.
Ossessionato
2015 GTS300, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 4286
Location: San Diego, CA
Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:15 pm quote
socalguy has built his share of engines, he will sort it out, don't worry!
Hooked
74 v90/100 smallframe, 1974 primavera 125 (getting there), 80 P200E,
Joined: 18 Jul 2008
Posts: 256
Location: San Diego
Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:32 pm quote
sdjohn wrote:
socalguy has built his share of engines, he will sort it out, don't worry!
I also have faith in SoCal’s skillset. Not his first rodeo. 😉
Have fun with the build SoCal!
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2079

Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:04 pm quote
Gabriel25 wrote:
V oodoo wrote:
Let's just vote, you first? (you got a welder guy and a spare twenty?)

If you do get it welded, you could try clamping it up, tapping it clean, dremelling in full chamfers at the break then installing a copper bolt and crossing your fingers it'll be fine after it's welded and you pull the bolt.
Let me preface my comment by stating that is a great service to vintage Vespa riding when a scooter in this condition is reconditioned/restored and put back into service once more, but that doesn't alter my advice, which is, get a replacement GL150 motor and use that one instead of this one. My advice is based on two key principles. The first is the not so rarity of this later version of the GL150. While I, as I suspect many others here reading this thread, love this model Vespa for its unique features, Piaggio did make about 80K of these, so getting a good condition replacement motor should not be difficult, or expensive, and I feel you will be much happier with the finished product once you have rebuilt the motor to your liking. Second, I think you may spend a good deal of time, and money, chasing the idea that your present motor can, or should, be reused just to be disappointed, if you are lucky (injured or killed if you are not). Think, death trap! You are cruising at 50 mph in traffic, enjoying your finely done GL when the motor breaks, sending you (and your passenger, should you be enjoying the fruits of your labor on a fine sunny day with company) sprawling into the street hoping not to be crushed under the tires of people sharing the road with you, driving their SUVs, paying more attention to their cell phones than you! I have to advise against.
I have no shame when it comes to the pre P series scooters. I would just swap in a stock P200 engine right off the bat. My (very short) build thread would go something like this..."So i scored a GL yesterday!!! As soon as i got it home i swapping in a 200 engine, and fired it up just before dark! I'm planning on leaving for a 400 mile highway ride tomorrow morning, so i didn't have time to take any pics. Cheers!"
Hooked
58 VB1T, 68 SS180, 81 100 Sport
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 278
Location: Long Beach, CA
Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:10 pm quote
whodatschrome wrote:
Gabriel25 wrote:
V oodoo wrote:
Let's just vote, you first? (you got a welder guy and a spare twenty?)

If you do get it welded, you could try clamping it up, tapping it clean, dremelling in full chamfers at the break then installing a copper bolt and crossing your fingers it'll be fine after it's welded and you pull the bolt.
Let me preface my comment by stating that is a great service to vintage Vespa riding when a scooter in this condition is reconditioned/restored and put back into service once more, but that doesn't alter my advice, which is, get a replacement GL150 motor and use that one instead of this one. My advice is based on two key principles. The first is the not so rarity of this later version of the GL150. While I, as I suspect many others here reading this thread, love this model Vespa for its unique features, Piaggio did make about 80K of these, so getting a good condition replacement motor should not be difficult, or expensive, and I feel you will be much happier with the finished product once you have rebuilt the motor to your liking. Second, I think you may spend a good deal of time, and money, chasing the idea that your present motor can, or should, be reused just to be disappointed, if you are lucky (injured or killed if you are not). Think, death trap! You are cruising at 50 mph in traffic, enjoying your finely done GL when the motor breaks, sending you (and your passenger, should you be enjoying the fruits of your labor on a fine sunny day with company) sprawling into the street hoping not to be crushed under the tires of people sharing the road with you, driving their SUVs, paying more attention to their cell phones than you! I have to advise against.
I have no shame when it comes to the pre P series scooters. I would just swap in a stock P200 engine right off the bat. My (very short) build thread would go something like this..."So i scored a GL yesterday!!! As soon as i got it home i swapping in a 200 engine, and fired it up just before dark! I'm planning on leaving for a 400 mile highway ride tomorrow morning, so i didn't have time to take any pics. Cheers!"
Best Build thread ever! Get on your Scoots and Ride!
bodgemaster
1963 GL, 1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5041
Location: So Cal
Fri Jan 31, 2020 10:11 am quote
whodatschrome wrote:
I would just swap in a stock P200 engine right off the bat.
Hey, great idea! Hang on, let me see what I've got here in my stash of engines ... aw, doggonit, don't have one. If you have a spare, let me know, happy to give it a go. Until then, unless I find something glaringly wrong with this one, I'm sticking with it.
Gabriel25 wrote:
... get a replacement GL150 motor and use that one instead of this one... Think, death trap!
Appreciate your concern. I'm in no hurry to get crushed under the wheels of an SUV. Not worried about this engine though... the exhaust bolt is a minor issue, an easy fix. Now that it's apart it's clear that it's had little use, cleaner than any replacement engine I'd be able to find. In fact, it's nearly unused. If you see anything that screams death trap, give a holler.

engine1.jpg

engine2.jpg

engine3.jpg

engine4.jpg

engine5.jpg

engine6.jpg

engine7.jpg

Banned
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Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7507
Location: San Francisco
Fri Jan 31, 2020 10:22 am quote
does the cushgear have the small springs (flat plates on both sides) or large (with the bulge)?
Moderator
P200 PX150
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4048
Location: Hustletown, TX
Fri Jan 31, 2020 10:23 am quote
Looks great!
bodgemaster
1963 GL, 1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5041
Location: So Cal
Fri Jan 31, 2020 12:27 pm quote
oopsclunkthud wrote:
does the cushgear have the small springs (flat plates on both sides) or large (with the bulge)?
Large.
Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1376

Sat Feb 01, 2020 8:28 am quote
whodatschrome wrote:
I have no shame when it comes to the pre P series scooters. I would just swap in a stock P200 engine right off the bat. My (very short) build thread would go something like this..."So i scored a GL yesterday!!! As soon as i got it home i swapping in a 200 engine, and fired it up just before dark! I'm planning on leaving for a 400 mile highway ride tomorrow morning, so i didn't have time to take any pics. Cheers!"
Now that statement made me chuckle.
bodgemaster
1963 GL, 1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5041
Location: So Cal
Sat Feb 01, 2020 9:17 am quote
Cool old metal shock ... feels like it still dampens about as well as the brand new Carbone on my shelf.

Unfortunately bushing was sacrificed during removal.

Anybody ever replaced the bushing on one of these? None of the shops seem to carry them.

C92FC7ED-679B-4631-BFAB-FF16564F02E3.jpeg

Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 1761
Location: Veria, Greece
Sat Feb 01, 2020 9:41 am quote
If you can't find any, one of my suppliers sells them. I can send some your way...

https://www.scootershop.gr/product_info.php?products_id=6853&osCsid=6fv0pimtbkvaf9u9bvtsi6fvc2
Member
Vespa 125 VMA, Vespa SS 180
Joined: 14 Feb 2018
Posts: 27
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:18 pm quote
I love watching the progress, that's what prompted me to post my junk yard project. Looks great!

SIP has your bushings - https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/ersatzteile/spare+parts++vespa+125150rally+57-008/shock+absorber+front-264?model=328a8f07-9abc-4eb5-aed2-7417cbe00b3b
Hooked
1964 GS160, 1966 90ss, 1976 Sprint Veloce
Joined: 08 Sep 2011
Posts: 274

Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:21 pm quote
I have replaced the rubber bushing. It was a pain. I had to cut down a slightly too big one and press it in.
Style Maven
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special '66(?) Super125 + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7606
Location: seattle/athens
Sat Feb 01, 2020 1:20 pm quote
It's nice seeing somebody trying to bring back an old one using as much of what came with it as possible, even if it is more trouble and maybe ~1%? less reliable. That original shock is a good example and I hope the crank works out as well. Rubber stuff, seals, worn cruciform - sure get new, don't wanna be that original! And a good 20/20 carb won't hurt or a P style pipe if you're staying stockish. What IS the plan now?

So... how is the headset/stuck tubes coming along?
bodgemaster
1963 GL, 1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5041
Location: So Cal
Sat Feb 01, 2020 4:20 pm quote
SaFiS: Epharisto brother, appreciate the offer. Looks like I can pick some up from SIP.

Langolson: Thx for the tip. Following your Super Sport thread.

Voodoo: You bet I’m using as much of what came with it as possible. IMHO, in almost every instance mildly used original factory parts are a better fit and better quality than new replacements once they’re cleaned up.

No firm plan yet engine-wise, but have some ideas.

Headset is still an issue. Tubes are stuck solid. Trying to figure out a way to rig up some anchor points in my garage to yank em out like you did.

EF0797B9-EB65-4658-B5F6-60E9773384EA.jpeg

Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4258
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Sat Feb 01, 2020 8:23 pm quote
I had to put the Sprint headset in the oven at 200 degrees to get it torn down.Came apart fairly easy after that, but I had to open up the house to get rid of the smoke/smell. My wife was not amused
bodgemaster
1963 GL, 1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5041
Location: So Cal
Sat Feb 01, 2020 8:34 pm quote
Tell me more. How long did you keep it in the oven? I tried a torch (MAPP) where the tubes pass through the headset... no luck.
Hooked
79p200e 66smallstate 85pk50xl 84p125ets 63GL150
Joined: 24 Nov 2016
Posts: 123
Location: Flatness, Tx
Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:03 pm quote
I admire and learn from your focus and dedication, SoCalGuy. Following this thread with much anticipation. Nice find, and good on ya for saving it!
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4258
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Sun Feb 02, 2020 6:44 am quote
I have one of those infrared temp sensors and kept checking it (after a small mishap in past - again not an amused wife). It worked out to be about ten minutes. If your oven does not go that low, set it on the lowest setting and don't let it go over 200. I took it out with gloves and set it on a tatty piece of carpet to work on. 54 year old grease was locking it in. I tried a torch as well because I was trying to save the grips, but it did not work out.
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4258
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Sun Feb 02, 2020 6:53 am quote
I can't take credit for this idea. I read an old thread from SFvsr about heating up the case halves when assembling and engine. And he got the idea from Opps (Patrick)
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4258
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Sun Feb 02, 2020 7:04 am quote
And I don't blame you for reusing as much as possible. Many of the newer parts are not as good, and the bill for replacement parts can go outta site quick. My Rally was like this - 3 coats of paint, but everything else was in fairly good shape. Just replaced seals, cruciform, buffers and on the body, a few wear items. Not so on the Sprint, everything is torn up from weathering - rust, impossible to remove paint, rims, seat cover, grips, anything rubber (of coarse) but even the aluminum rails are ripped up. I guess you roll the dice and you get what you get. Either way, I'm having a ball.
Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1376

Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:31 am quote
I wonder if putting the headset in a closed lid BBQ may get you in less trouble?
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Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:45 am quote
I'd try a soak in evaporust or oxalic acid before heat and force. rust takes more room and if it can be dissolved out it will come apart much easier.
Ossessionato
2015 GTS300, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 4286
Location: San Diego, CA
Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:50 am quote
I used my barbecue for a stubborn case bearing.
Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1376

Sun Feb 02, 2020 11:04 am quote
oopsclunkthud wrote:
I'd try a soak in evaporust or oxalic acid before heat and force. rust takes more room and if it can be dissolved out it will come apart much easier.
I think you're right , disolving rust and build up first would help.
bodgemaster
1963 GL, 1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5041
Location: So Cal
Sun Feb 02, 2020 11:50 am quote
Thanks for the suggestions and positive comments.

Oxalic acid it is. Standby.

Meanwhile front suspension coming apart…

057072F1-6B38-4B26-923D-C363B5FB63EC.jpeg

Hooked
P Series / Li / LML / Motobi
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Posts: 137
Location: UK - 3rd Rock From the Sun
Sun Feb 02, 2020 2:22 pm quote
oopsclunkthud wrote:
I'd try a soak in evaporust or oxalic acid before heat and force. rust takes more room and if it can be dissolved out it will come apart much easier.
DONT PUT EVAPORUST NEAR aluminum..IT ROTS IT
Style Maven
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special '66(?) Super125 + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7606
Location: seattle/athens
Sun Feb 02, 2020 2:30 pm quote
50/50 acetone and ATF is effective, safe on aluminum and best penetrating solution by unbiased test.
You'll probably want some to get that front suspension apart more easily too.
Sounds kinky, but google "penetrating lube" .



The stuck part is only about a half inch long. More here: Tubes stuck in headset, I mean really, REALLY stuck

Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4258
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Sun Feb 02, 2020 3:08 pm quote
On the Sprint, the tubes were not locked in from rust, it was more about dried out, rock hard grease. Heat, Pblaster, acetone - nothing worked. Upside of all the grease was no galling in the contact areas and virtually no rust.
Style Maven
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special '66(?) Super125 + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7606
Location: seattle/athens
Sun Feb 02, 2020 3:58 pm quote
Probably much easier if they were greased, but I don't think mine were. They were really bone dry and rusty, just corrosion gluing the steel tube to the aluminum bearing surface. The heat dried up the penetrant, but no sign of grease when it came out. We heated from both sides, inside the light housing and from above. Removal went pretty easy once we figured out a good slide hammer setup and w/ TWO people!

LUBRICATED steel on aluminum well fitted is a very good bearing
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4258
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Sun Feb 02, 2020 4:15 pm quote
Thinking about this more, there must have been more than just grease in there. Who knows, maybe some crazy home mixture of bear grease and blood of a raven
Molto Verboso
1980 P125X, 1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1564
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sun Feb 02, 2020 4:45 pm quote
Lot of effort to get that done, but nice progress!
bodgemaster
1963 GL, 1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5041
Location: So Cal
Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:01 am quote
Tubes still not budging ...

2278B3EB-99AD-4EA9-92A6-90318B5B2FFA.jpeg

Moderator
P200 PX150
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4048
Location: Hustletown, TX
Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:12 am quote
Spitball -

What about heating the headset and then using an inverted compressed air canister to cool the inside of the tube where you suspect its bound. ...kinda like you would with a bearing. The temperature transfer would maybe affect the tube first before transferring to the headset metal, thus causing the tube to contract a tiny tiny bit... then yank on the bastard and see if you get some movement?

#Longshot
Addicted
GL, PK, PE200 with hack, Sears Rust Badge
Joined: 24 Apr 2012
Posts: 789
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:26 pm quote
Maybe some CRC Freeze Off will loosen it up to hit with a hammer and chisel with something soft on the end to not damage the area being hit???
https://youtu.be/b0BaowQvL6c
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