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bodgemaster
1963 GL, 1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5041
Location: So Cal
Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:22 pm quote
Quote:
Strip it, Cut it, patch it and your good to go
You make it sound easy. I get the basic concept ... cut out the rot and replace it with good metal. Like a big ol root canal. Making it happen is a different story. Guess I'll know better after it's stripped.

rot1.jpg

rot2.jpg

rot3.jpg
uh oh... goes thru

Ossessionato
2015 GTS300, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 4286
Location: San Diego, CA
Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:33 pm quote
looks like you've got your hands full this time . I'm sure you will manage, but it will be fun to see how you get it done.
Hooked
58 VB1T, 68 SS180, 81 100 Sport
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 278
Location: Long Beach, CA
Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:46 pm quote
Maybe not the easiest job, but doable! Plus you get to learn new skills to apply to future projects. Win win! You're in Socal Socal, so maybe we have a meetup cut-patch-weld build day!
Enthusiast
vespa p200
Joined: 29 Oct 2019
Posts: 73
Location: Bakersfield
Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:17 pm quote
i always forget
is it drink first then weld,
weld then drink
or weld and drink
Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1376

Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:01 pm quote
I learned a lot about the inerds of these frames when I replaced my floor, the fabrication work youíre going to have to do may be better accessed and completed working from in the tunnel outward. Iím actually surprised the floor isnít in bad shape as well.
Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7507
Location: San Francisco
Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:47 pm quote
I think that section is 3 layers thick with the tunnel, the outside of the body, and the inside that forms the fender all stacked up. I would think that a proper patch would be to each of those layers with the seams being offset.

getting all the rust out first, then enlarging the hole in some layers to allow access to the others.
Addicted
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 871
Location: california
Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:52 pm quote
Patrick's insight on layers being there is a good one.

My $.02
I would Dremel a hole larger so that its cut back enough that you
1. have no rust
2. have a reasonable oval shaped hole that you will be able to trace with your welding gun.

(The layers don't need to be feathered with this method - the weld will bite in to all of them from the side).

Cut a thicker (1.6mm min. 2mm better) patch larger then the hole - that underlaps it - and put it on in the back side.
Tack it in around the perimeter at 4 corners.
Then put a slightly smaller patch on the front - a second layer.
Before you install it - drill 1/4 holes in a 5 pattern - these will be filled with weld as spot weld. (see illustration below).

This second layer will sit flush with the body work.
It should be just smaller then the original hole - so that there is a valley between the second patch and the scooter body.
Take this second patch in place at 4 spots.

Now just spot weld in a circle using the stitch method. Spot right in the valley by holding the gun perpendicular to your work and simply rocking it back and forth so it hits the scooter body, the valley, and the top patch.
Pick up the gun, move it an inch, do it again. Keep circling using the rocking method until you have "stitched" all the welds together.

Spot weld the holes in a 5 pattern you drilled, in the same manner. this will tie the middle of the patches together. Then get out your grinder with a flap disc on it and do your thing.

Oh - and do this to make the welding part go well.
- lay the scooter on its side so that area you are working on is level.
- Use a thick piece for your backer (1.6mm or more) because it will soak up heat. START your tack weld on the patch (in the valley) and rock your gun back and forth on to the body and your flush second patch. The heat will stay on your thicker patch which can take it without such easy burn through.

People who actually know what to do can now tell you why you shouldn't do any of what I just said - but it is executable - and will eave the area stronger then it was from the factory.

I await my welding banishment.
-CM

double patch.jpg
white is the valley created from putting a patch on behind. gray is smaller patch put on in front. make back patch thick to help the welding go well.

Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2079

Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:36 am quote
Here's my whole though on rusty frame repair...if it's a common scooter frame (such as a P series) that has lots of rust, you'll be spending probably close to $300 once you get it all removed and then patched back up. That includes getting the frame media blasted, cutting out all the rotted metal, then dipping the frame in acid, and then patching panels back in..and that's if you do all the metal work. But that's if you only want to remove all the rust. Some folks are fine with a more bare minimum, and are fine with leaving lots of rust in the frame. A nicely used P or Stella frame should only cost $200 to $300 max. You will ALWAYS be time, trouble, and money ahead if you just find a different frame! All that goes out the window if you have a rare scooter though. I had to repair a fair amount of rust on a T5 that i bought. Since it was a Mark 1 square tail, the frame was worth saving. First i media blasted it. Then i sectioned out all the rusty areas (same place as yours, which meant 3 layers of monkey business sheet metal), then got it acid dipped, then i sectioned in new patch panels. When i was done with it, it had zero rust.

So my though is, that if you spend only $100 on fixing that frame, you have spent $100 too much. That $100 could have been put towards a frame that's in excellent condition for only another couple hundred. I'd search out a Stella frame at a replacement. Option B, is search out a smashed Stella, and section pieces out of it to replace your rusted out spots. It will be much easier than fabbing up your own contoured panels. And currently you can only see just some of the rust. Once you start pealing away all those layers of sheetmetal, it's going to get a whole lot worse under there.

If you want something to last, you have to put in the time to make it last. (same thing for engine builds). Don't skip...unless you want to go full ghetto on a super rusty frame, then you could literally just weld in some 2''x2'' angle iron to span that length of the tunnel. I'd be more inclined to make some sort of "yard art" out of the frame instead.
Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1376

Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:26 am quote
whodatschrome wrote:
Here's my whole though on rusty frame repair...if it's a common scooter frame (such as a P series) that has lots of rust, you'll be spending probably close to $300 once you get it all removed and then patched back up. That includes getting the frame media blasted, cutting out all the rotted metal, then dipping the frame in acid, and then patching panels back in..and that's if you do all the metal work. But that's if you only want to remove all the rust. Some folks are fine with a more bare minimum, and are fine with leaving lots of rust in the frame. A nicely used P or Stella frame should only cost $200 to $300 max. You will ALWAYS be time, trouble, and money ahead if you just find a different frame! All that goes out the window if you have a rare scooter though. I had to repair a fair amount of rust on a T5 that i bought. Since it was a Mark 1 square tail, the frame was worth saving. First i media blasted it. Then i sectioned out all the rusty areas (same place as yours, which meant 3 layers of monkey business sheet metal), then got it acid dipped, then i sectioned in new patch panels. When i was done with it, it had zero rust.

So my though is, that if you spend only $100 on fixing that frame, you have spent $100 too much. That $100 could have been put towards a frame that's in excellent condition for only another couple hundred. I'd search out a Stella frame at a replacement. Option B, is search out a smashed Stella, and section pieces out of it to replace your rusted out spots. It will be much easier than fabbing up your own contoured panels. And currently you can only see just some of the rust. Once you start pealing away all those layers of sheetmetal, it's going to get a whole lot worse under there.

If you want something to last, you have to put in the time to make it last. (same thing for engine builds). Don't skip...unless you want to go full ghetto on a super rusty frame, then you could literally just weld in some 2''x2'' angle iron to span that length of the tunnel. I'd be more inclined to make some sort of "yard art" out of the frame instead.
I'll be the first to admit that you are right on all the above and down there in the States where there are sooooo many more relics to choose from I would agree that finding another frame would be the way to go. We all know that nothing is cheap or easy with bringing these scoots back to life and once you get sucked into the rabbit hole there's no turning back. Personally I'm enjoying the journey, SoCalGuy has the chance to stop think and act now.
Me being a stuborn Canuck I would plow forward with Charlie's idea.
Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1376

Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:30 am quote
charlieman22 wrote:
Patrick's insight on layers being there is a good one.

My $.02
I would Dremel a hole larger so that its cut back enough that you
1. have no rust
2. have a reasonable oval shaped hole that you will be able to trace with your welding gun.

(The layers don't need to be feathered with this method - the weld will bite in to all of them from the side).

Cut a thicker (1.6mm min. 2mm better) patch larger then the hole - that underlaps it - and put it on in the back side.
Tack it in around the perimeter at 4 corners.
Then put a slightly smaller patch on the front - a second layer.
Before you install it - drill 1/4 holes in a 5 pattern - these will be filled with weld as spot weld. (see illustration below).

This second layer will sit flush with the body work.
It should be just smaller then the original hole - so that there is a valley between the second patch and the scooter body.
Take this second patch in place at 4 spots.

Now just spot weld in a circle using the stitch method. Spot right in the valley by holding the gun perpendicular to your work and simply rocking it back and forth so it hits the scooter body, the valley, and the top patch.
Pick up the gun, move it an inch, do it again. Keep circling using the rocking method until you have "stitched" all the welds together.

Spot weld the holes in a 5 pattern you drilled, in the same manner. this will tie the middle of the patches together. Then get out your grinder with a flap disc on it and do your thing.

Oh - and do this to make the welding part go well.
- lay the scooter on its side so that area you are working on is level.
- Use a thick piece for your backer (1.6mm or more) because it will soak up heat. START your tack weld on the patch (in the valley) and rock your gun back and forth on to the body and your flush second patch. The heat will stay on your thicker patch which can take it without such easy burn through.

People who actually know what to do can now tell you why you shouldn't do any of what I just said - but it is executable - and will eave the area stronger then it was from the factory.

I await my welding banishment.
-CM
Hey CM kinda goes back to the When is a DIY frame safe? topic huh? Sounds like overkill but I think in this case more is better , weld her up good and strong is key here.
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4258
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:54 am quote
I had a wee bit of that rust on the Sprint in the same area because there is a pit inside the frame where bad things go to and don't leave. Anywho, during and after the media blast, I took a good look at it and it was not in bad shape. I followed up with pouring some Ospho down in the hole from the inside and let it sit for a day. Some of the Ospho leaked out, but no matter, I sucked out the rest, let it dry and followed up with pouring molten lead in the pocket. Again some leaked out, but I was able to shape it with a file and sandpaper. Your will obviously take more work, but it will be totally worth it. You got this - good luck.
Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7507
Location: San Francisco
Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:39 am quote
whodatschrome wrote:
I'd search out a Stella frame at a replacement
Agree if this was a Stella or a P or even maybe a super. But this is a GL and worth saving.
Hooked
1964 GS160, 1966 90ss, 1976 Sprint Veloce
Joined: 08 Sep 2011
Posts: 274

Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:39 am quote
I'm just an unfrozen caveman lawyer, but in my opinion a GL frame is unique enough to try to save.
bodgemaster
1963 GL, 1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5041
Location: So Cal
Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:23 am quote
Great input from the Think Tank. Well-considered and thoughtful responses across the board, much appreciated.

First off, in my estimation the area is completely fixable ... and it will be fixed. This is nothing compared to what Iíve seen on other projects.

whodats: Likelihood of me ditching this frame = 0. If it was a P, maybe. Not gonna spend a fortune on blasting and prep, and not trying to make a museum piece either. But this oneís worth saving.

oopsclunkthud: Correct as usual. The rot is near the intersection of three sections of sheet metal. The worst of it is at the end of the drip tray where it curves down toward the floorboard. Not the easiet place to access, but as far as I can tell, not structurally critical.

charlieman: The detailed diagram and instructions are brilliant. Pretty much the approach Iíll take, with some modifications. Access is going to be the biggest issue. Welding anything from behind in that area may not happen. The curve of the metal will also be a challenge, but Iím up for it.

Lynn: You havenít seen stubborn yet.

GeekLion: Thanks for the offer. After I get the area cleaned up Iíll let you know.

3843A33D-C2E0-44EF-A172-647ED1E1033D.jpeg

Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2079

Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:04 am quote
oopsclunkthud wrote:
whodatschrome wrote:
I'd search out a Stella frame at a replacement
Agree if this was a Stella or a P or even maybe a super. But this is a GL and worth saving.
Huh?...I guess I somehow missed the part about it being a GL...
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2079

Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:45 pm quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
whodats: Likelihood of me ditching this frame = 0. If it was a P, maybe. Not gonna spend a fortune on blasting and prep, and not trying to make a museum piece either. But this oneís worth saving.

oopsclunkthud: Correct as usual. The rot is near the intersection of three sections of sheet metal. The worst of it is at the end of the drip tray where it curves down toward the floorboard. Not the easiet place to access, but as far as I can tell, not structurally critical.

Like i replied to Patrick, for some reason i thought it was a P frame. Sorry about that. A GL frame is worth saving.

And i would would rebut that that area IS structural. There are 3 layers of sheetmetal spotwelded together at that one spot. There's quite a bit of stress in that area. I would want to get all that structure back in there. And remember, you can currently only see the exterior rust. Rust is similar to an iceberg...you can see just the tip of it, and there's a whole bunch more that isn't visible. If you're going to remove rust, remove ALL the rust. If you don't, it will come right back! Just pouring Ospho on it then slapping on some filler isn't a fix (Ospho only stops the outer surface rust that it touches, not the other 90% that it doesn't get to). Yes, to get all the rust out will cost more than $0 dollars. None of my scooter are museum quality (nor do i want one that nice), but all of mine are very solid and reliable for day to day riding. I'd definitely spend the extra few $ and labor hours to get the metal sorted out correctly. I don't care if people do nice paint jobs or not, but i do care about rust and frame structure.
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2079

Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:56 pm quote
Not to get down on anyone, but there has been a trend for the past 3-4 years here on MV to (what i would consider) Ameribodge scooters. All of us here are fine with judging bodges from SEA, but when we here perform the exact same renovation process, praises are sung. Should we only discriminate against bodges from other countries than America?

I don't know how many people here are in a scooter club, but join a scooter club, get active, find other local scooterists who have knowledge about renovations. They can help lead you to businesses who specialize in particular things...such as media blasting, chemical dipping, painting, machine shops, painters, ect. In fact, many people in scooter clubs specialize in many of those job skills. You might get a club member hookup discount too. Maybe whatever scooter projects ya'll have won't seem so daunting if you have some local hands-on help.
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1418
Location: Florence, OR
Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:14 pm quote
whodatschrome wrote:
Not to get down on anyone, but there has been a trend for the past 3-4 years here on MV to (what i would consider) Ameribodge scooters. All of us here are fine with judging bodges from SEA, but when we here perform the exact same renovation process, praises are sung. Should we only discriminate against bodges from other countries than America?
I'm with you on this. I had the opportunity to get an actual SEA bodge running for the owner, and there was an Ameribodge fuel system, just wacked, but great for a race machine. And that's only one area.

I don't think I personally could ever "restore" a scooter, just "refurbish", which is why I've shied away from something with a bunch of rust.
whodatschrome wrote:
I don't know how many people here are in a scooter club, but join a scooter club, get active, find other local scooterists who have knowledge about renovations. They can help lead you to businesses who specialize in particular things...such as media blasting, chemical dipping, painting, machine shops, painters, ect. In fact, many people in scooter clubs specialize in many of those job skills. You might get a club member hookup discount too. Maybe whatever scooter projects ya'll have won't seem so daunting if you have some local hands-on help.
This is a great idea. A big reason why I'm here online. There are no clubs local to my area (within an hour drive) so I feel like I'm in the NSM club with y'all!

I value your opinion WhoDat - you have the experience to back up your words - that is extremely valuable to me, and I'm sure a good number of NSM club members here.
Molto Verboso
1980 P125X, 1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1564
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:51 pm quote
Same here. No local clubs, a few guys who very rarely meet up every few months, that my work schedule never seems to line up with, given I work nights and weekends. This is my club. Wish there were people I could count on locally for help but I'm not the type to seek it out and force it. My understanding is East coast scooter community is much different than West coast. You guys are lucky over there with more resources and available community.

You guys are great help and knowledge!

Btw socal, keep up the good work. I don't think I'd take on something this in depth anytime soon, but I'm enjoying seeing it happen.
bodgemaster
1963 GL, 1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5041
Location: So Cal
Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:50 pm quote
Quote:
All of us here are fine with judging bodges from SEA, but when we here perform the exact same renovation process, praises are sung. Should we only discriminate against bodges from other countries than America?
LOL, so now Iím gonna churn out a bodge?
Addicted
1974VLB 1979VSX 1974V9A
Joined: 12 Sep 2014
Posts: 665

Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:05 am quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
Quote:
All of us here are fine with judging bodges from SEA, but when we here perform the exact same renovation process, praises are sung. Should we only discriminate against bodges from other countries than America?
LOL, so now Iím gonna churn out a bodge?
I knew it!
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4258
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:40 pm quote
I had to walk away for a bit after being some what accused of building a bodge. To Explain: the scoot frame was media blasted, checked over to make sure no rust was left. I filled with lead because the frame was to be powder coated, so no plastic filler was usable. The small amount that was filled could have been filled with small spot welds and then ground down, but I'm a crap welder and I don't know any good ones. Most people would have filled this up with bondo and moved on. And for the record, I have never looked down on anything out of SEA, heck I admire what they can do to those scoots. It's only when a scoot is being peddled as a "restored" and built to deceive some poor sap that the problem starts. Sorry for the hi-jack SoCal, carry on.....
bodgemaster
1963 GL, 1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5041
Location: So Cal
Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:48 pm quote
Quote:
... the exact same renovation process ...
I disagree. The average bodgemaker can weld much better than me.

Got a bit done yesterday. Howís it look?

A026A353-99D2-42F7-BCB6-7270BBB763BB.jpeg

Hooked
1964 GS160, 1966 90ss, 1976 Sprint Veloce
Joined: 08 Sep 2011
Posts: 274

Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:52 pm quote
Wrong seat.
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4258
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:28 pm quote
Love the chrome lift, err, centerstand.
Addicted
GL, PK, PE200 with hack, Sears Rust Badge
Joined: 24 Apr 2012
Posts: 789
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:31 pm quote
whodatschrome wrote:
Not to get down on anyone, but there has been a trend for the past 3-4 years here on MV to (what i would consider) Ameribodge scooters. All of us here are fine with judging bodges from SEA, but when we here perform the exact same renovation process, praises are sung. Should we only discriminate against bodges from other countries than America?
I totally disagree but this is a topic that should have it's own thread identifying what "you" consider the bodge projects on MV...since you put it out there. More to say but this is the wrong thread.

Those with projects should totally disregard. I admire each and every project on this forum. We are a decreasing breed of people that try our best to get these old things back on the road. These projects have full disclosure with pictures of what is being done and with the hope it may help someone in the future.

Please keep up the projects and updates and don't let anything or anyone give you doubt that what you're doing is less then your best.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 7276
Location: Victoria, Australia
Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:42 pm quote
The two overlapping skins are a great rust hidey hole... I guess what I'm saying is the visible tear is where the metal is down to nothing, how thick is it 1" away? There's a bunch of repair sections available which would make it easier to decide to replace a larger section.

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/repair+sheet+tunnel+for+vespa+_pv1539
Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 1761
Location: Veria, Greece
Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:07 pm quote
Personally, I would open it up more than that. That's not rust, it's rot and continues to spread like cancer. You have to stop it as much as you can. On my P what started as a small surface rotten section, revealed underlying rot that was bigger. I cleaned it to the point where there was no rot anymore, applied a rust stabilizer gel and welded a new piece of sheet metal which was treated with the same gel and sprayed with primer from the inside. Then on the welds and seams I applied solder instead using bondo...

be44d0cd_ea0a_447a_b1a8_fabe7a1d7875_85496.jpeg

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Moderator
P200 PX150
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4048
Location: Hustletown, TX
Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:18 pm quote
Crazy good work there!
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4258
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:55 pm quote
Wow, nice job.
Addicted
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 871
Location: california
Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:09 pm quote
Damn you guys. That is some good stuff.
Safis - wholly cow.
Ginch - that small repair panel is made for the job!
(also - it has the little holes I wanted Socal to drill so I like it more 🙂)
Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1376

Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:06 pm quote
Safis that is a nice repair job. SoCalGuy would need some very solid metal on the inner to plug weld to. Excellent.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86 and a not so normal pts100 '82
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 5551
Location: Indo
Tue Feb 18, 2020 12:18 pm quote
Agree top job on Brother Safis and yes its not rust its a cancer on a metal frame
bodgemaster
1963 GL, 1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5041
Location: So Cal
Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:28 pm quote
Nice work Chris. Iím also thinking of soldering the seams.
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2079

Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:50 pm quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
Quote:
All of us here are fine with judging bodges from SEA, but when we here perform the exact same renovation process, praises are sung. Should we only discriminate against bodges from other countries than America?
LOL, so now Iím gonna churn out a bodge?
No, i don't think you're going to churn out a bodge.

My cares or concerns are not with anyone's build technique, style, color choice, originality, museum quality renovations or not. I also enjoy other scooters that are cutdowns, street racers, rats, skellys, $3 rattle can paint jobs, or a $1000 paint jobs.I don't even mind some exterior surface rust. My only concern for everyone's scooter here is a rust free structurally sound frame. In America we have so much at our disposal for being able to use businesses that specialize in removing the rust. SoCalGuy, i don't know what you or anyone else's knowledge of rust removal or repair is, but i have a fair amount of experience with it. Rust isn't anyone's friend. All it does is take. It is a cancer. You can't just remove 90% of it and expect it not to come back. Ospho is a fantastic product for rust, but it's quite limited on what it can actually do with the rust.

I know that most all of us here have little hesitations on dropping $200-$300-$600-$4000 on just go-fast/stop fast tuning parts (judging by the build threads going on here). So to not invest a few hundred dollars on a frame that carries that expensive engine (and the rider!) seems completely crazy to me.

Yes, my words came out quite harsh. They were not to disrespect anyone's build skill level. What they were meant as, to let folks know that they left (or might leave out) the steps to remove all the inner cancerous rust. I think many people are ignorant about how to fix rust (which you can't, you just have to remove it). SaFis summed up the proper fix in those pics that he posted up. It also shows just how far back rust can seep behind a panel.

I have no doubt you can do a quality repair. It might take some time though. Probably the most difficult part of the project is finding or fabbing patch panels. After that, the pieces will fall back into place.

cheers-
whodats
Molto Verboso
Gina, 1965 Vespa 180SS, Bella,1968 Vespa 150 Super, (Both NZ new Airco assembled), Francesca, 2006 Vespa LX150, Sofia, 2007 Vespa GT200
Joined: 21 Jan 2015
Posts: 1292
Location: Hamilton, NZ
Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:54 am quote
Whodatschrome, itís a relevant point you make regarding rust removal. I dropped serious money on exactly that, to the point where my body guy had a second go when he found more during his work. Between him and the painter they have taken a lot of the cost of my build on the 180SS to be sure they have minimised the risk of rust returning. Fortunately I live inland and we donít get cold enough to use salt on the roads.
Addicted
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 871
Location: california
Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:40 am quote
Caught up on going's on:

Screen Shot 2020-02-19 at 7.36.24 AM.png
That caused a laugh

bodgemaster
1963 GL, 1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5041
Location: So Cal
Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:00 pm quote
whodats, all good. I donít think anyone suggested just pouring Ospho over the holes and calling it done. Thatís not how I intend to deal with it anyway. Most people here know rust needs to be hunted down and removed. Thatís why I asked how experienced people deal with this kind of rot.

I normally shop out all my welding. Would be easy enough to send this out too, but that would be a zero learning experience, wouldnít it? These projects are as much about the process as the final product. Others may feel differently, which is fine. Yes, I could trash the whole frame, chop it up, put a P engine in it ... would be fun but a completely different project.

Appreciate the feedback everyone. I think I have a plan of attack. Fabbing a patch with the contours of the engine bay will take some finesse, but itís doable.
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2079

Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:02 pm quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
Fabbing a patch with the contours of the engine bay will take some finesse, but itís doable.
Go take a look at that trashed Stella frame over on our classifieds! You could probably section out all the pieces you need off of it. Even if they aren't an exact match, they can probably be easily modified to fit. [SF] Free crashed Stella frame
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 7396
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:43 pm quote
whodatschrome wrote:
SoCalGuy wrote:
Fabbing a patch with the contours of the engine bay will take some finesse, but itís doable.
Go take a look at that trashed Stella frame over on our classifieds! You could probably section out all the pieces you need off of it. Even if they aren't an exact match, they can probably be easily modified to fit. [SF] Free crashed Stella frame
I was actually thinking of exactly that...

Thatís a bit of a repair that might be made quite a bit easier with some bits and bobs from a doner bike...

Hmm....

-g
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