Polini cylinder 294cc for Vespa GTS 300
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Addicted
2013 GTS300ie
Joined: 12 Dec 2017
Posts: 964
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Thu Feb 06, 2020 12:41 pm quote
My kit is in the country.
Just waiting for customs clearance and delivery.

Do I detect a need for photos of the upgrade going in?
Banned
Benelli TNT 125/Benelli Leoncino 500. I don't care. You can quote me.
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 17813
Location: South East Great England of Britishland
Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:17 pm quote
Polaroid
I think that it would be a great idea if you catalogued the entire process for those who havn't reassembled an engine.

You have my blessing.

Bill x
Ossessionato
2016 Vespa GTS300ie abs/asr/ess Settantesimo '70'
Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 3033
Location: East Anglia, a dryer region of the UK than Israel
Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:54 am quote
Willie B wrote:
My fully kitted Malossi 250GTS runs very well. Drop in behind someone that's rolling on the freeway and triple digit indicated speed comes easy, and it will run 80+ all day long. I rode it a lot immediately after modding, but haven't had the time the past few years. The increase in displacement helps, and it seems to breathe much easier. If I found myself only having one bike, the GTS would be my keeper. It's easy to ride and park, handles brilliantly, very stable at speed and has been completely reliable. Blowing by folks on the motorway always gets the WTF look, and hanging behind someone cutting a hole in the wind is a hoot. I've also upgraded the suspension (Malossi) and bushings (Clauss Studio), tires, exhaust to Akrapovic with a SIP exhaust stub, lighting to ScooterWest's LED kit and Brembos fore and aft. I'm also running a Vespa short screen. It's a sleeper, sporting the stock rear rack, front bumper and crash bars. I've contemplated purchasing a 2020, but waiting for compatible brake, variator and engine tuning options. As I understand, they're limited in speed by the variator and speed limiter?
The Malossi Forcemaster2 over rides the ecu rev limiter restrictions on speed.
Molto Verboso
GTS 300 Super ABS/ASR, BV 350 ABS/ASR
Joined: 07 Jun 2014
Posts: 1125
Location: Washington DC
Sat Feb 08, 2020 8:16 am quote
Fudmucker wrote:
My kit is in the country.
Just waiting for customs clearance and delivery.

Do I detect a need for photos of the upgrade going in?
YES please...performance statistics would also be helpful.
Thanks Fudmucker
Ossessionato
'20 300GTS Super Tec '09 250 GTSie '75 Rally 200 '79 P200 '09 Stella 221
Joined: 13 May 2012
Posts: 2565
Location: Midway, Kentucky
Sat Feb 08, 2020 2:58 pm quote
Stromrider wrote:
Willie B wrote:
My fully kitted Malossi 250GTS runs very well. Drop in behind someone that's rolling on the freeway and triple digit indicated speed comes easy, and it will run 80+ all day long. I rode it a lot immediately after modding, but haven't had the time the past few years. The increase in displacement helps, and it seems to breathe much easier. If I found myself only having one bike, the GTS would be my keeper. It's easy to ride and park, handles brilliantly, very stable at speed and has been completely reliable. Blowing by folks on the motorway always gets the WTF look, and hanging behind someone cutting a hole in the wind is a hoot. I've also upgraded the suspension (Malossi) and bushings (Clauss Studio), tires, exhaust to Akrapovic with a SIP exhaust stub, lighting to ScooterWest's LED kit and Brembos fore and aft. I'm also running a Vespa short screen. It's a sleeper, sporting the stock rear rack, front bumper and crash bars. I've contemplated purchasing a 2020, but waiting for compatible brake, variator and engine tuning options. As I understand, they're limited in speed by the variator and speed limiter?
The Malossi Forcemaster2 over rides the ecu rev limiter restrictions on speed.
I wasn't aware that Malossi offered this for the new GTS/HPE. Thanks
Ossessionato
2016 Vespa GTS300ie abs/asr/ess Settantesimo '70'
Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 3033
Location: East Anglia, a dryer region of the UK than Israel
Sun Feb 09, 2020 1:55 am quote
Willie B wrote:
Stromrider wrote:
Willie B wrote:
My fully kitted Malossi 250GTS runs very well. Drop in behind someone that's rolling on the freeway and triple digit indicated speed comes easy, and it will run 80+ all day long. I rode it a lot immediately after modding, but haven't had the time the past few years. The increase in displacement helps, and it seems to breathe much easier. If I found myself only having one bike, the GTS would be my keeper. It's easy to ride and park, handles brilliantly, very stable at speed and has been completely reliable. Blowing by folks on the motorway always gets the WTF look, and hanging behind someone cutting a hole in the wind is a hoot. I've also upgraded the suspension (Malossi) and bushings (Clauss Studio), tires, exhaust to Akrapovic with a SIP exhaust stub, lighting to ScooterWest's LED kit and Brembos fore and aft. I'm also running a Vespa short screen. It's a sleeper, sporting the stock rear rack, front bumper and crash bars. I've contemplated purchasing a 2020, but waiting for compatible brake, variator and engine tuning options. As I understand, they're limited in speed by the variator and speed limiter?
The Malossi Forcemaster2 over rides the ecu rev limiter restrictions on speed.
I wasn't aware that Malossi offered this for the new GTS/HPE. Thanks
They may not just yet for the HPE. But when/if they do that's the way it will likely work, just as on the previous models.
Hooked
2009 Vespa GTS300 S
Joined: 28 Nov 2017
Posts: 227
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Sun Feb 09, 2020 1:01 pm quote
Fudmucker wrote:
My kit is in the country.
Just waiting for customs clearance and delivery.

Do I detect a need for photos of the upgrade going in?
Yes please
Addicted
2013 GTS300ie
Joined: 12 Dec 2017
Posts: 964
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:36 am quote
My Polini kit was delivered this afternoon from my contact in Germany.
(Ask no questions and I'll tell no lies how I got it before the official agents...) D

Vespa guru and I looked at it and it is fascinating...!
The cylinder is Nicasil finish with a small step at the top to squish into the standard 75mm head.
That means that the piston will not pass all the way up through the cylinder.

I am off to the Dyno guy on Tuesday morning for a "before" benchmark reading.
We will do another "after" reading, fitting the Polini kit only.
Dyno guy is in racing developments, so we may do further development thereafter with head skimming work to up the compression ratio a bit.
I live at 4 500ft ASL so every little bit helps.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350, 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 8663
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:53 am quote
Mike Holland wrote:
Willie B wrote:
I've contemplated purchasing a 2020, but waiting for compatible brake, variator and engine tuning options. As I understand, they're limited in speed by the variator and speed limiter?
Easily overridden by fitting a Kubler rear wheel sensor ring. Increases top speed by about 10 kph, I believe. That's the very first mod I would make if I had one. Not that I travel at those speeds much, but it is the principle of the thing!
I assume the Kubler rear wheel sensor ring will work on a 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni too?
Ossessionato
Blue GTS300 Super 2015, White GTS300 Super 2018
Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 2742
Location: Sydney, Australia
Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:05 pm quote
Can't imagine why not. What's different with the Sei Giorni except the saddle, handlebars , instruments and headlight?
Hooked
2009 Vespa GTS300 S
Joined: 28 Nov 2017
Posts: 227
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:02 pm quote
Fudmucker wrote:
My Polini kit was delivered this afternoon from my contact in Germany.
(Ask no questions and I'll tell no lies how I got it before the official agents...) D

Vespa guru and I looked at it and it is fascinating...!
The cylinder is Nicasil finish with a small step at the top to squish into the standard 75mm head.
That means that the piston will not pass all the way up through the cylinder.

I am off to the Dyno guy on Tuesday morning for a "before" benchmark reading.
We will do another "after" reading, fitting the Polini kit only.
Dyno guy is in racing developments, so we may do further development thereafter with head skimming work to up the compression ratio a bit.
I live at 4 500ft ASL so every little bit helps.
Lived there 26 years ago, so I do understand your need for "every little bit". And the 120 kph highways there require every little too.
Luckily we are here at sea level.
Ossessionato
Blue GTS300 Super 2015, White GTS300 Super 2018
Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 2742
Location: Sydney, Australia
Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:26 pm quote
I rode my GS150 from Johannesburg, 5700 feet above sea level, to Cape Town in 1961, and found it had better acceleration in second gear there at sea level than in first gear in Johannesburg.

Of course it doesn't make as much difference with a four stroke and fuel injection which adapts.
Ossessionato
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 4142
Location: Latina (Italy)
Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:01 am quote
The engines today have sensors that read the amount of oxygen in the intake and the ECU adapts to the operating conditions by optimizing the fuel injection, with the carburetor it would be less easy to do it.
You are heroic Mike, if you ever write a book I will buy it.
Addicted
2013 GTS300ie
Joined: 12 Dec 2017
Posts: 964
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:42 pm quote
EDIT:

POST DELETED AND CORRECTION POSTED


Last edited by Fudmucker on Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:51 am; edited 3 times in total
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Granturismo 218
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Posts: 6356
Location: NWAOK
Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:18 pm quote
The outcome will be better if you don't try to fix it, but use the centering bushings that came with the kit and follow the instructions. The kit doesn't use o-rings. You can probably look at it and figure out what's going to happen if you enlarge the holes enough to install the o-rings on the factory cylinder.

140_0224_expmaxi.jpg

Addicted
2013 GTS300ie
Joined: 12 Dec 2017
Posts: 964
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:14 pm quote
Motovista wrote:
The outcome will be better if you don't try to fix it, but use the centering bushings that came with the kit and follow the instructions. The kit doesn't use o-rings. You can probably look at it and figure out what's going to happen if you enlarge the holes enough to install the o-rings on the factory cylinder.
MV, you have hit the nail on the head...

EDIT: OMIT totally incorrect, unwarranted, unjustified, unreasonable observation totally indicative of haste and enthusiasm overcoming reason and intellect

The kit is fitted, the motor is back in Sunny and we watered up, oiled up and gassed up yesterday evening. This morning I get to ride it in it's new configuration. I will run in for 500kms before I put it on the dyno again.

Just for interests sake, when we examined the existing factory cylinder at the engineering works, the technician pointed out that the original cross honing marks in the cylinder were still visible - after 42 000kms on the motor!

PS: Getting those three rings into one slot in the Polini piston is a serious pain in the posterior! It took longer to get them in that to reassemble the motor.

Polini Kit NOT problem.jpg

NO Problem.png



Last edited by Fudmucker on Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:46 am; edited 4 times in total
Veni, Vidi, Posti
LX190, Primavera
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 6656
Location: New Zealand
Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:21 pm quote
I usually donít mind seeing a short skirt but isnít that one a little too revealing?
Ossessionato
Blue GTS300 Super 2015, White GTS300 Super 2018
Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 2742
Location: Sydney, Australia
Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:04 am quote
Fudmucker wrote:
PS: Getting those three rings into one slot in the Polini piston is a serious pain in the posterior! It took longer to get them in that to reassemble the motor.
It is the same hassle getting them into the Malossi piston and then getting the piston into the barrel. It is so tempting to nip a bit off the end of the wavy ring, but that is a no-no.
Addicted
2013 GTS300ie
Joined: 12 Dec 2017
Posts: 964
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:36 am quote
Fudmucker wrote:
So, Vespa guru and I started the installation of the Polini kit today...

One word of warning:
When stripping the engine the little ring on the back of the compression release cam EASILY drops off and can fall into the crankcase via the timing chain tunnel. (See pic from manual)
Stuff a rag into the timing chain tunnel before removal to prevent this.

All went well until we started fitting the kit.
Don't get me wrong, the materials are really quality.

The instructions suck. ("Remove the engine from the oil.')

The real pain in the posterior was NOT a manufacturing glitch
The standard head requires the installation of two centering dowel tubes
and 4x O-rings.
The Polini cylinder top has not been milled to accept these - BECAUSE THEY PROVIDED ALTERNATIVES!

If you buy a Polini kit, ensure that you look for the tiny parts in the little plastic bag that fell out of the box onto the cluttered workbench and then onto the floor!

My humble and sincerest apologies to Polini, to the Modern Vespa community and the whole Italian nation in general.

Overlooked in haste.jpg

Addicted
2013 GTS300ie
Joined: 12 Dec 2017
Posts: 964
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:59 am quote
znomit wrote:
I usually donít mind seeing a short skirt but isnít that one a little too revealing?
I can't tell... is she wearing knickers?


Last edited by Fudmucker on Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:14 am; edited 1 time in total
Veni, Vidi, Posti
LX190, Primavera
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 6656
Location: New Zealand
Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:11 am quote
Fudmucker wrote:
znomit wrote:
I usually donít mind seeing a short skirt but isnít that one a little too revealing?
I can't tell... is she wearing nickers?
She may well be a slapper.
Addicted
2013 GTS300ie
Joined: 12 Dec 2017
Posts: 964
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:24 am quote
Actually (as in most cases of exploded views) the true image is not exactly what you see on the diagram. The Polini piston has a far more substantial skirt.

In addition, the stepped centering bushes are shown upside down.
The wider diameter portion goes into the head, the narrow diameter portion goes into the cylinder block.

BTW, where does this diagram come from?
There definitely isn't one in the kit.

Polini Kit Diagram Corrected.png

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Granturismo 218
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Posts: 6356
Location: NWAOK
Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:16 pm quote
Fudmucker wrote:
BTW, where does this diagram come from?
There definitely isn't one in the kit.
Polini
Hooked
2009 Vespa GTS300 S
Joined: 28 Nov 2017
Posts: 227
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:31 pm quote
Hmm , we're waiting with bated breath on the next installment. Now how does it goooo....
Addicted
2013 GTS300ie
Joined: 12 Dec 2017
Posts: 964
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:55 pm quote
NZscoot wrote:
Hmm , we're waiting with bated breath on the next installment. Now how does it goooo....
Well... it only has some 80km on the odometer since I got Sunny back on the road, so I am not yet cranking it. I am giving it 500km to bed in nicely while I ride about town on my daily chores. I am using around 1/2 to 2/3 throttle and do feel a difference in the low end torque on pull away.

Vespa guru is very happy with it and is now planning to install one on his own bike - a 2018 GTS.
Enthusiast
GTS300IE
Joined: 01 Mar 2017
Posts: 70
Location: Hove, UK, EU
Sat Feb 22, 2020 4:19 am quote
Great stuff.

Kits may not strictly make sense unless youíre rebuilding your top end anyway, but my word, they are FUN!
Ossessionato
2016 Vespa GTS300ie abs/asr/ess Settantesimo '70'
Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 3033
Location: East Anglia, a dryer region of the UK than Israel
Sat Feb 22, 2020 4:53 am quote
Well done Fudmucker, this is all very interesting and thanks for posting.
Lurker
Joined: 09 Mar 2020
Posts: 4
Location: Belgium
Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:18 am quote
Any dyno results yet?

The anticipation is killing me
Addicted
2013 GTS300ie
Joined: 12 Dec 2017
Posts: 964
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Fri Mar 13, 2020 12:03 pm quote
Sunny went in for some paintwork repair.
I will only have her back next Friday.
Then I can continue riding her during bedding-in.
Sorry for the wait...
Addicted
2013 GTS300ie
Joined: 12 Dec 2017
Posts: 964
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:10 am quote
So...
I called the repair place to follow up on my Sunny's repairs.
The repair and prep work is completed, but the paintwork was delayed by an urgent order from the military in preparation for the lock-down.
I am not going to get Sunny back before the lock-down.

The painter guy lives on a smallholding just out of town.
His repair business is on the property, so he can continue the work during lock-down...

I would not have been able to ride her anyway.
Lurker
Joined: 09 Mar 2020
Posts: 4
Location: Belgium
Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:17 am quote
No worries. Just keep safe through this madness!
Lurker
2018 gts 300 supersport
Joined: 09 May 2020
Posts: 3
Location: Turkiye
Sat May 09, 2020 6:41 am quote
Hi Fudmucker, is there any new news from your sunny. Because I also want to order same polini 294 cc kit to my scoot. please share your opinion with us
Addicted
2013 GTS300ie
Joined: 12 Dec 2017
Posts: 964
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Mon May 11, 2020 1:22 am quote
kafi wrote:
Hi Fudmucker, is there any new news from your sunny. Because I also want to order same polini 294 cc kit to my scoot. please share your opinion with us
Sunny went in for paint repairs two weeks before our lock-down was announced. The paint guy couldn't get it finished before Lock-down started.
She hasn't come back from the shop yet because they are not allowed to trade yet. I have no idea when we will be permitted to do so

I am now seriously suffering from Parked Vespa Syndrome.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
LX190, Primavera
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 6656
Location: New Zealand
Mon May 11, 2020 4:23 am quote
Time for a few small repairs
Would it be worse having her sit there unridable?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfKKBDFCiIA
Addicted
2013 GTS300ie
Joined: 12 Dec 2017
Posts: 964
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Wed May 20, 2020 5:54 pm quote
I collected Sunny back from her paint repairs yesterday.
Now I have to wait for the dinamometer place to be permitted to open again after lock-down.
Lurker
2018 gts 300 supersport
Joined: 09 May 2020
Posts: 3
Location: Turkiye
Tue Jun 09, 2020 9:46 am quote
Fudmucker wrote:
I collected Sunny back from her paint repairs yesterday.
Now I have to wait for the dinamometer place to be permitted to open again after lock-down.
Quote:
Is there any news?
Addicted
2013 GTS300ie
Joined: 12 Dec 2017
Posts: 964
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Tue Jun 09, 2020 10:59 am quote
kafi wrote:
Fudmucker wrote:
I collected Sunny back from her paint repairs yesterday.
Now I have to wait for the dinamometer place to be permitted to open again after lock-down.
Is there any news?
Still not open for business...

Dynamometers are not classified an "essential service" - along with hairdressers, beauty consultants, open-toed shoes, short sleeved T-shirts and a long list of activities.

Automotive service shops are permitted to do "emergency repairs" on vehicles with an "essential service" certificate - but they are not permitted to service them.
Unbelievable, I know.
Lurker
2018 gts 300 supersport
Joined: 09 May 2020
Posts: 3
Location: Turkiye
Tue Jun 09, 2020 11:47 am quote
Fudmucker wrote:
kafi wrote:
Fudmucker wrote:
I collected Sunny back from her paint repairs yesterday.
Now I have to wait for the dinamometer place to be permitted to open again after lock-down.
Is there any news?
Still not open for business...

Dynamometers are not classified an "essential service" - along with hairdressers, beauty consultants, open-toed shoes, short sleeved T-shirts and a long list of activities.

Automotive service shops are permitted to do "emergency repairs" on vehicles with an "essential service" certificate - but they are not permitted to service them.
Unbelievable, I know.
it doesn't matter. it is enough to be in good health
Member
2016 GTS300 Super Sport, 2019 GTS300 Yacht Club
Joined: 06 Aug 2017
Posts: 26
Location: Toledo, Ohio
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:37 pm quote
Any further information on this kit?
I wanted to flip the switch on ordering the Polini cylinder from SIP, but I have not been able to find any reviews on it. Specifically on how it compares with the Malossi Big Bore kit.

Is the size of just doing the Polini cylinder better then doing the Malossi cylinder and head?

Would/Should/Could the Polini cylinder use the Malossi Head?

Would/Should/Could an upgraded cam be used with the Polini cylinder?

Does the included Polini fuel controller adapt the rev limiter like the Malossi Force Master?

Thanks in advance!
Addicted
2013 GTS300ie
Joined: 12 Dec 2017
Posts: 964
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:26 pm quote
Sorry Shaun, I could not answer your questions.
I had the means and the opportunity to buy the Polini kit and it just seemed a simpler solution to the "more power" urge.
I have not yet been able to dyno test it as they are still locked down.

I do have a mildly irritating hunting idle when the engine is cold and an occasional stall at the traffic lights that I have not yet resolved.
I need to ride it in a little more before I fiddle to fix those two.
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