LML Daily Warrior + touring
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Member
Looking for one
Joined: 31 Oct 2018
Posts: 7
Location: Mexico
Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:26 pm quote
Soooo, I am on the first year with my first vintage scooter an LML 2t 150, about 6 months ago I had a soft seize because the autolube hose disconnected (the previous owner had it secured with a twisted wire) and since then it has been way to slow, max 60-80 kph (37 - 49 mph) but losing way to much power on any climb.

Last weekend I finally decided to open my engine and it is dooooone, sorry no pics, but the cylinder and the piston are all scuffed and with decolorations but there is no way all that happened with only one soft seize so I think previous seizes have happened before.

While checking the cylinder I realized that replacing a cylinder is at the upper limit of my capabilities to wrench.

I am looking for a daily warrior for 10 km (16miles) in HEAVY city traffic + "touring" capabilities 90-110 kph ideally 1 to 2 hours outside the city (55 - 65 mph)

Soooo I come here with two options as the prices are almost the same but would like to ask and not base my decision only on money:

1.
Cylinder Kit 150 Serie Pro
SI 20.20
Polini Venturi
Polini Exhaust (I choose this one because of the ones I have heard in person this is my favorite )
Jetting kit SIP 105 to 128

2.
DR 177 (plug & play, no matching ports)
SI 20.20
Polini Venturi
Polini Exhaust (I choose this one because of the ones I have heard in person this is my favorite )
Jetting kit SIP 130 to 140

Now with the questions and disclaimers:

Question 1: As I never had the scooter in a proper engine condition, I don't really know its capabilities, will option 1 be enough for my needs?

Question 2: Considering the option 2, I have read that the LML crankshaft is made of butter, could it handle the second set up and be reliable enough, probably this questions is regarding reliability in general and not only focused in the crankshaft?

Question 3: for both options, any other stuff I should be changing while I am at it?

Disclaimer 1: I live in Mexico City and I would like to order everything together because the shipping is EXPENSIVE, for example, ordering the polini venturi alone or ordering everything together makes ALMOST no difference in shipping, so there is that.

Disclaimer 2: I know reliability is up to the owner of a scooter and that even a stock one can be unreliable if not maintained properly but I am asking if the set up 2 will be breaking stuff even if I take care of it.

Disclaimer 3: I live in an apartment and have no space to wrench on, I do all my wrenching on the side of the road, literally, try no to recommend super complicated stuff if possible.

Thanks guys and gals!
Enthusiast
Stella 2T 150, Honda C70
Joined: 25 Sep 2019
Posts: 65
Location: Seattle
Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:49 pm quote
Couple Questions more about your setup:

1. What exhaust are you running? Still the stock catalyzed exhaust or something more free flowing?

2. What is your current carb/airbox setup?


I just went through all of this myself and ultimately decided to stick with a fairly stock setup (but with the Bald John settings which I'll PM to you later tonight).

I am by no means the expert here but the reasons why I decided to stay stock were mainly because I do the majority of my riding like you -- in the city, stop and go traffic, etc. The LML kit is pretty solid -- the "5" port setup (yes its really just 3 ports is tuned for performance and the thinner rings on the LML piston give you a little more performance as well vs a Piaggio 3 port setup.

Regarding the crank, how many miles do you have? I think most crapped out early on, so if you've got a 10K km on it you're probably safe. If you're going to go down the road of replacing the crank too, then you might as well move the drive gear up a tooth and get some longer gearing out of it. But that's splitting cases, etc. Its doable, but you'll want to bring it inside to do the work. DF is pretty flat, so you don't have the same issues with hills that I have here in Seattle and I'd be happy to have the lower RPM and give up some speed off the line.

On mine with the tuned stock setup I am able to hit 50 easily and I feel like 55 is certainly possible. Even a stock P200 seems like it caps out around 60mph.

Regardless I don't know if 60mph for sustained times in peak Central American heat is realistic. I'm sure someone will jump in and tell me I'm wrong, which is great, I want to learn how to squeeze out more performance without sacrificing reliability but these scoots were originally designed as in-town runabouts, not long haul touring bikes.

I'd suggest getting a CHT so you can watch the temperature as you're cruising. I think you'll be fine in city, its on the tour that overheating and a soft seize might be an issue.

With regard to pistons and cylinders, I have a pretty clean cylinder I'll give you for the cost of shipping. I can even run a ball hone through it and clean it up before i send it to you. That way you really only need to order a new piston. If for some reason it makes sense, I'll be in Cabo in 3 weeks and I'm happy to ship you the parts from there to you. Maybe that will be cheaper. Just let me know.

Hal
Member
Looking for one
Joined: 31 Oct 2018
Posts: 7
Location: Mexico
Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:18 pm quote
whereshaldo wrote:
Couple Questions more about your setup:

1. What exhaust are you running? Still the stock catalyzed exhaust or something more free flowing?

2. What is your current carb/airbox setup?


I just went through all of this myself and ultimately decided to stick with a fairly stock setup (but with the Bald John settings which I'll PM to you later tonight).

I am by no means the expert here but the reasons why I decided to stay stock were mainly because I do the majority of my riding like you -- in the city, stop and go traffic, etc. The LML kit is pretty solid -- the "5" port setup (yes its really just 3 ports is tuned for performance and the thinner rings on the LML piston give you a little more performance as well vs a Piaggio 3 port setup.

Regarding the crank, how many miles do you have? I think most crapped out early on, so if you've got a 10K km on it you're probably safe. If you're going to go down the road of replacing the crank too, then you might as well move the drive gear up a tooth and get some longer gearing out of it. But that's splitting cases, etc. Its doable, but you'll want to bring it inside to do the work. DF is pretty flat, so you don't have the same issues with hills that I have here in Seattle and I'd be happy to have the lower RPM and give up some speed off the line.

On mine with the tuned stock setup I am able to hit 50 easily and I feel like 55 is certainly possible. Even a stock P200 seems like it caps out around 60mph.

Regardless I don't know if 60mph for sustained times in peak Central American heat is realistic. I'm sure someone will jump in and tell me I'm wrong, which is great, I want to learn how to squeeze out more performance without sacrificing reliability but these scoots were originally designed as in-town runabouts, not long haul touring bikes.

I'd suggest getting a CHT so you can watch the temperature as you're cruising. I think you'll be fine in city, its on the tour that overheating and a soft seize might be an issue.

With regard to pistons and cylinders, I have a pretty clean cylinder I'll give you for the cost of shipping. I can even run a ball hone through it and clean it up before i send it to you. That way you really only need to order a new piston. If for some reason it makes sense, I'll be in Cabo in 3 weeks and I'm happy to ship you the parts from there to you. Maybe that will be cheaper. Just let me know.

Hal
Hey Hal,

1. I am running the stock exhaust, my scooter is a 2009 so I think it is catalyzed

2. My carb is a 20.20, stock box, 100/BE3/160 and 55/160

3. I have 13K km, maybe I am safe from the butter crankshaft

4. I would love to get the Bald john settings

5. Do you mind if I wait a week or so about your cylinder, let me see what the community comes up with and I will get back to you

The CHT is a good recommendation, I just checked and the installation seams easy enough, always thought it was more difficult, thanks for the advice

Maybe you are right, 55 mph is enough, I need to find a bit more selfrestraint haha

thanks for your input!
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2066

Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:59 pm quote
If you want a daily warrior that is reliable, and can hold 55-65 mph for an hour or two at a time, then you're describing a stock P200 engine with a box exhaust. If you want miles of durability out of your Stella engine, swap out your stock exhaust for a Sito+ (or another torque based box exhaust). Since you have 10k miles on the engine, i'd install a new crank, shift cross, possibly some of the loose gears in your transmission, and replace the springs in your cush gear. With you living in Mexico City that super high elevation is going to sap lots of power from any engine (stock or kitted)! I'd recommend you go through your existing engine and focus on reliability, rather than tuning. That DR177 kit will help out a lot. I would definitely match the flow of the ports of the cylinder to the cases. I'd pass on that Polini venturi. Doing a basic 10k maintenace throughout your whole engine is most likely going to cost more than all your tuning bits combined.

My list is-

-rebuild entire engine.
-replace crank.
-a low RPM torque biased 177 kit (and match the ports!)
-box exhaust.
-keep your existing carb and intake
Member
Looking for one
Joined: 31 Oct 2018
Posts: 7
Location: Mexico
Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:49 pm quote
whodatschrome wrote:
If you want a daily warrior that is reliable, and can hold 55-65 mph for an hour or two at a time, then you're describing a stock P200 engine with a box exhaust. If you want miles of durability out of your Stella engine, swap out your stock exhaust for a Sito+ (or another torque based box exhaust). Since you have 10k miles on the engine, i'd install a new crank, shift cross, possibly some of the loose gears in your transmission, and replace the springs in your cush gear. With you living in Mexico City that super high elevation is going to sap lots of power from any engine (stock or kitted)! I'd recommend you go through your existing engine and focus on reliability, rather than tuning. That DR177 kit will help out a lot. I would definitely match the flow of the ports of the cylinder to the cases. I'd pass on that Polini venturi. Doing a basic 10k maintenace throughout your whole engine is most likely going to cost more than all your tuning bits combined.

My list is-

-rebuild entire engine.
-replace crank.
-a low RPM torque biased 177 kit (and match the ports!)
-box exhaust.
-keep your existing carb and intake
ok, so what I gather from your comment is that Dr177 kit + box exhaust is reliable but I would need to update the other components.

I guess my only doubt about it is that crankshaft, shift cross, gear and clutch springs replacement seams a bit out of my league in terms of skills
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1411
Location: Florence, OR
Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:03 pm quote
Hey Pureko,

I just wanted to mention that there a few places to watch a rebuild happen. Robot from ScooterWest is on Youtube, and there is a great instructional pictorial on Scootermercato.com.

I agree with WhoDat - he knows better than most! If you want a daily rider, you might as well sponge up as much info as you can, and go for it!
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1663
Location: London UK
Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:06 pm quote
I've worked in Mexico and if you have been doing a lot of city driving there you had better add a new clutch to the list.

If I were you I would take out the whole engine put it in a box, take it up to the apartment and do a proper overhaul.

Full stock maybe enough but with WDC on this one, a DR177 should be perfect for city riding.
Enthusiast
Stella 2T 150, Honda C70
Joined: 25 Sep 2019
Posts: 65
Location: Seattle
Sun Feb 02, 2020 2:33 pm quote
Pureko,
I've been meaning to post this up for a while now but I just keep forgetting. The attached article is hard to find these days (all the old Stella chat boards are gone) but here it is. I think even if you go with the 177 kit, its still a good read.

FWIW, I just swapped out a few jets and am now running

55-160 Idle Jet
160 Air Correcter
E3 Mixer tube
100 Main Jet

I had switched the mixer to a BE3 which is what Bald John calls for, but it was too rich and caused mid throttle bogging. I just switched back and it seems to run better.

ProjectStella.pdf
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Member
Looking for one
Joined: 31 Oct 2018
Posts: 7
Location: Mexico
Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:01 am quote
whereshaldo wrote:
Pureko,
I've been meaning to post this up for a while now but I just keep forgetting. The attached article is hard to find these days (all the old Stella chat boards are gone) but here it is. I think even if you go with the 177 kit, its still a good read.

FWIW, I just swapped out a few jets and am now running

55-160 Idle Jet
160 Air Correcter
E3 Mixer tube
100 Main Jet

I had switched the mixer to a BE3 which is what Bald John calls for, but it was too rich and caused mid throttle bogging. I just switched back and it seems to run better.
Hey, thanks for this, i have read through it and i've found it useful and now i have some kind of path to follow
Hooked
2001 LML 150
Joined: 16 Jul 2017
Posts: 350
Location: Melb, Aus
Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:12 pm quote
Hey thanks pureko for starting this thread. I have 2 LML 150's and also looking for a reliable scoot rather than one that breaks the sound barrier

Defiantly changing out the old blue gauze air filter for an older px drilled filter did wonders for power as well as changing stock exhaust to a sito plus helped a lot as well and some re-jetting of course. I'm using the Bald John's jetting except with BE3 corrector.

Pureko.. are you still wanting to go with the stock cylinder and avoid the rebuild for now? I couldn't be bothered porting cases and buying bigger cylinder kits and everything else that goes with that... personal choice of course. But if that's the path you take maybe we can compare notes along the way?

All the best.

Phil
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