Darksider’s Be Informed
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Molto Verboso
MP3 500
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 1296
Location: Utah
Sun Feb 02, 2020 6:22 am quote
Before the spit flies take into account riding styles & risk management.
That being said I confess “I’m a DARKSIDER”.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Typhoon 125
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 11028
Location: Oregon City, OR
Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:32 am quote
An excellent, no nonsense video of the pros and cons of "darkside" tires without any of the usual hype. Frankly, I wouldn't think anyone would be convinced of the "darkside" option after watching this video, but everyone makes up their own mind. Personally, that first photo above of a motorcycle cornering with a car tire speaks volumes to me.
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Modded Vespa 2017 GTV 300, BMW 2017 C650GT, Ural 2019 Gear Up
Joined: 21 May 2017
Posts: 6227
Location: Downtown Toronto
Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:47 am quote
Dooglas wrote:
An excellent, no nonsense video of the pros and cons of "darkside" tires without any of the usual hype. Frankly, I wouldn't think anyone would be convinced of the "darkside" option after watching this video, but everyone makes up their own mind. Personally, that first photo above of a motorcycle cornering with a car tire speaks volumes to me.
+1 and another great vid from Ryan F9. We are truly lucky to have someone producing such quality videos on our passion and kudos to FortNine for providing the funds for these. They are a Canadian online motorcycle parts supplier and as many know we are not that big a market compared to others. Ryan is intelligent , presents himself well and provides valuable information while still being entertaining.

Here is an interview with him from Revzilla. I'm surprised they haven't tried to poach how and bring him down south.

https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/an-interview-with-fortnines-ryan-f9
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 37878
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:30 am quote
Dooglas wrote:
An excellent, no nonsense video of the pros and cons of "darkside" tires without any of the usual hype. Frankly, I wouldn't think anyone would be convinced of the "darkside" option after watching this video, but everyone makes up their own mind. Personally, that first photo above of a motorcycle cornering with a car tire speaks volumes to me.
However, in places where all roads are straight lines (Kansas?) it makes good sense. I certainly wouldn't here in CA though!
Hooked
2016 GTV 300 ABS
Joined: 14 Feb 2010
Posts: 185
Location: Andrews, TX
Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:56 am quote
I almost didn't watch that video because it in no way pertained to my scootering (and I've never been a motorcyclist). However, it was damned interesting and informative, so thx for posting!

I've been stopped behind motorcycles with wide rear tires at stop lights and pondered what advantages such a tire offered. However, it never occurred to me that it might be an auto tire and not a dedicated 'cycle tire.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350, 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 7891
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:20 pm quote
ETres wrote:
I almost didn't watch that video because it in no way pertained to my scootering (and I've never been a motorcyclist). However, it was damned interesting and informative, so thx for posting!

I've been stopped behind motorcycles with wide rear tires at stop lights and pondered what advantages such a tire offered. However, it never occurred to me that it might be an auto tire and not a dedicated 'cycle tire.
Most are not, they make wide tires for motorcycles today so car are not needed anymore. In the 70's lots of choppers use cars tires on the back, but they didn't turn much any way.
Hooked
Piaggio MP3 500
Joined: 21 Nov 2017
Posts: 221
Location: Austin, TX
Tue Feb 04, 2020 8:28 am quote
In all fairness, the tire he put on that bike was a wide low-profile tire, and something narrower with a higher sidewall and less of a steel belt would handle better. Might be hard to find in a motorcycle size, though.
Ossessionato
2016 MP3/500 Sport ABS, 2009 MP3/250, 2012 GTS Super 300ie
Joined: 08 Jul 2011
Posts: 4265
Location: Marietta, GA
Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:57 am quote
Hmm....
I replied to this, and for some reason it disappeared.
Not sure if I rubbed someone the wrong way, so I will try again.
I hope if someone is deleting posts, they would at least notify the OP as to why.

The video clearly show's that this fellow did not do much research first on using a CT on a Motorcycle. To me the intent was to get some viewership on Youtube to make some money as he was shaking his head "No" after adequate time riding and experimenting. He had way to much Air in the tire where it was doomed to failure. He had to be struggling making turns fighting the squareness of the tire on the rear. The Pro and Con's discussion had some interesting opinions.

Speaking from a MP3/250 perspective riding for a number of years now, using the 12" rim, I have had wonderful results. My current Mini Cooper tire has over 16,000 miles on it, and it does not show much wear. I use about 30 pounds of air pressure to get just enough flex of the sidewalls, where all the tread stays flat on the ground. The ride is very smooth and my lower back welcomes it. If I were to add a second person, I would probably add some more air... but that's rare.

I have tried to mount a CT on my 2016 MP3/500 with no success, so I abandoned this and went back with a City Grip. On my next change I will try again, but this time I will order a different size CT with the hope to get the bead to pop into place.

I would not discount the use of a CT, my suggestion would be to buy a used rim, purchase one and experiment.

Keith,
Marietta, GA
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Modded Vespa 2017 GTV 300, BMW 2017 C650GT, Ural 2019 Gear Up
Joined: 21 May 2017
Posts: 6227
Location: Downtown Toronto
Tue Feb 04, 2020 10:09 am quote
No way in hell would I trust a tire designed for a car on a bike. I'm a pretty aggressive rider and corner hard. Motorcycle tires are meant for the lean and to grip at an angle. Is it really worth saving a few bucks to put a car tire on a motorcycle? I don't think there is a worldwide conspiracy out there that motorcycle tire manufacturers purposely set out to give their tires a shorter lifespan. Just look t the shape of a motorcycle tire to that of a car tire, they look different and well.. .yeah they should. One has 4 wheels and the other (mostly) 2 unless you are driving like Baby Driver the tires on a car will never be at an angle to the tarmac. Any motorcyclist with any confidence will often be at a good lean and just by looking at a motorcycle tire you can see they are designed for that.

I have never ridden an MP3 and I imagine they do not lean much but I could be wrong and I am sure I will be corrected if I am . The Vespa? Oh hell yeah you can scrape the side stand on one and the same goes for my BMW even though it is a 650 pound bike and has a good sized rear tire. My rear actually lasts a good while, it's the front tires I burn through and that just comes down to my riding style. I do a lot of trail braking and dive the nose of bigger bikes often prior to a turn to compress the shocks.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350, 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 7891
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:23 am quote
Harbinger wrote:
I have never ridden an MP3 and I imagine they do not lean much but I could be wrong and I am sure I will be corrected if I am .
40° enough with both front tires on the ground? And if that isn't enough, the outside tire just comes off the ground as you turn past 40°. There is a video of an MP3 on a test track leaning so far the outside wheel is off the ground
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Modded Vespa 2017 GTV 300, BMW 2017 C650GT, Ural 2019 Gear Up
Joined: 21 May 2017
Posts: 6227
Location: Downtown Toronto
Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:30 am quote
WEB-Tech wrote:
Harbinger wrote:
I have never ridden an MP3 and I imagine they do not lean much but I could be wrong and I am sure I will be corrected if I am .
40° enough with both front tires on the ground? And if that isn't enough, the outside tire just comes off the ground as you turn past 40°. There is a video of an MP3 on a test track leaning so far the outside wheel is off the ground
How did I know it would be you with the correction ?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350, 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 7891
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:53 am quote
Harbinger wrote:
WEB-Tech wrote:
Harbinger wrote:
I have never ridden an MP3 and I imagine they do not lean much but I could be wrong and I am sure I will be corrected if I am .
40° enough with both front tires on the ground? And if that isn't enough, the outside tire just comes off the ground as you turn past 40°. There is a video of an MP3 on a test track leaning so far the outside wheel is off the ground
How did I know it would be you with the correction ?
Because I have a 2008 MP3
Have never lifted a tire myself.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Typhoon 125
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 11028
Location: Oregon City, OR
Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:41 am quote
jimc wrote:
However, in places where all roads are straight lines (Kansas?) it makes good sense. I certainly wouldn't here in CA though!
Even in Kansas, those straight roads eventually turn. And, in Kansas, when they do they are usually 90 degree tight radus turns
as the rural roads in that flat part of the World usually follow section lines.
Member
MP3
Joined: 03 Apr 2019
Posts: 9
Location: Alberta
Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:46 pm quote
its good to hear from someone who actually knows how to ride well. i gavent ever met anyone who rode well and used a car tire. this explains why.
Ossessionato
2016 Vespa GTS300ie abs/asr/ess Settantesimo '70'
Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2377
Location: Starfleet Command Engineering, Southern UK HQ,
Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:46 am quote
I've ridden both the Burgman 650 and the 1000cc Vstrom (my cousins bikes in N/America) with rear car tyres fitted. In both cases it completely ruined the handling of the bikes. It took me a whole day to get used to the handling in corners so I could averagely well navigate around a bend without running very wide. The feeling of the back end about to slide out never left me either. A point made clear to me when I momentarily started to swing the bike into a long sweeper only to find the back end of the Vstrom starting to slide.

Of course, in the Uk and many european countries it is illegal to fit car tyres to motorcycles and scooters. Doing so contravenes various DOT & EU regulations on constructions and use of vehicles. Here in the UK your bike will not pass it's yearly DOT inspection (the MOT as we call it). It is this way because of the testing done by government departments which has shown them to be dangerous compared to 'proper' MC tyres.

Sorry to say this but folks can bleat all they want about how good a car tyre is on a MC, but it's just so much hogwash. I've spoken to many folks who has done this in the States and they seem to have to try very hard to convince themselves that what they have done is ok. Interestingly, most who try this don't do it again. My cousin didn't after piling his Burgman into a ditch due to backend slide. You can get by using one if you are careful, but the fact is it's just not as safe as a motorcycle tyre if you want to ride your bike normally. This is self evident too! The safety aspect is about lots of things (sidewall flexibility, tyre deformity and strength) but especially about profile and contact patch with the road. I do wonder why folks seem to think they know better than the manufacturers as to what is better. Considering the safety concerns, it's a non starter for most sensible folks.
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